Distributing Java Source
Roedy Green
distributing Java source?
2. If you distribute source via a Version control system, which is the
preferred one for Java multiplatform?
3. Is there a place where I can post my source in a vcs for free or
cheaply? SourceForge turned me down because of my "non-miltary use"
restriction. My ISP is always too busy to do the work to let me set
up my own server.
--
Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
The Java Glossary
http://mindprod.com
Thomas Kellerer
> 1. is there any format considered more vanilla than ZIP for
> distributing Java source?
JAR file?
Although that is essentially the same as a ZIP file, it is "built into" Java.
So you can be sure that anyone who has the JDK installed (otherwise he/she wouldn't be interested in the sources, right?) can un-jar it, even if no "ZIP utilitiy" is installed on that system
Thomas
Tom Anderson
> 1. is there any format considered more vanilla than ZIP for distributing
> Java source?
Not that i'm aware of. I might be tempted to use a JAR, so i could
indicate version numbers and other things in the manifest, but that's not
a huge advantage.
> 2. If you distribute source via a Version control system, which is the
> preferred one for Java multiplatform?
For distribution, it's hard to beat CVS, since there are clients for every
platform under the sun, including plugins for IDEs, virtual filesystems,
etc, and it's very well-understood, and a well-established standard.
Subversion is a 'better CVS', but it doesn't yet have as wide support, i'd
say. The more radical changeset-oriented systems, like git, are only
really necessary if you're doing distributed, anarchic development, which
i think you aren't (since your development isn't distributed - i make no
comment as to its anarchicity!).
> 3. Is there a place where I can post my source in a vcs for free or
> cheaply? SourceForge turned me down because of my "non-miltary use"
> restriction. My ISP is always too busy to do the work to let me set up
> my own server.
I can't think of any off the top of my head that will let you use an
arbitrary license, as you would need to impose your non-military
restriction. You could work your way through this list and see if any
will, though:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_open_source_software_hosting_facilities
tom
--
We can only see a short distance ahead, but we can see plenty there that
needs to be done. -- Alan Turing
Daniel Dyer
<see_w...@mindprod.com.invalid> wrote:
> 1. is there any format considered more vanilla than ZIP for
> distributing Java source?
Others have suggested JAR files, but I prefer ZIP (or TGZ) since it is
slightly more convenient. When I double click a source archive, I want to
view its contents (or extract them). If it's a JAR, the system will try
to execute it.
> 2. If you distribute source via a Version control system, which is the
> preferred one for Java multiplatform?
Subversion.
> 3. Is there a place where I can post my source in a vcs for free or
> cheaply? SourceForge turned me down because of my "non-miltary use"
> restriction. My ISP is always too busy to do the work to let me set
> up my own server.
Have you tried Java.net? I don't know whether they would object to your
restriction, it's worth asking.
Dan.
--
Daniel Dyer
http://www.uncommons.org
Daniel Dyer
wrote:
>> 2. If you distribute source via a Version control system, which is the
>> preferred one for Java multiplatform?
>
> For distribution, it's hard to beat CVS, since there are clients for
> every platform under the sun, including plugins for IDEs, virtual
> filesystems, etc, and it's very well-understood, and a well-established
> standard. Subversion is a 'better CVS', but it doesn't yet have as wide
> support, i'd say.
That may have been the case a few years ago, but I don't think it is now.
I'd say that Subversion is at least as widely supported as CVS.
David Segall
> Is there a place where I can post my source in a vcs for free or
>cheaply?
Try http://www.cheap-jsp-hosting.com/. Dave Miller
<davem...@strategicservicesgroup.com> seems keen to cooperate with
active Java programmers and, I believe, recently gave some space to
Andrew Thompson <http://pscode.org/>. My only contact with them was an
enquiry about an addition to their supplied JVM. The reply was prompt
and offered a risk free (for me) solution.
> My ISP is always too busy to do the work to let me set
>up my own server.
I don't understand this bit. Unless your ISP is the host what have
they got to do with setting up your own server? On the other hand, if
they are willing to provide a free host, then I would keep nagging.
Roedy Green
<see_w...@mindprod.com.invalid> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted
someone who said :
>1. is there any format considered more vanilla than ZIP for
>distributing Java source?
>
>2. If you distribute source via a Version control system, which is the
>preferred one for Java multiplatform?
>
>3. Is there a place where I can post my source in a vcs for free or
>cheaply? SourceForge turned me down because of my "non-miltary use"
>restriction. My ISP is always too busy to do the work to let me set
>up my own server.
I have summarised your collective wisdom at
http://mindprod.com/jgloss/distributingsource.html
Daniel Dyer
wrote:
Another option is to pay for a VPS (Virtual Private Server). It's just
like having your own dedicated machine but cheaper (you get a choice of
OS, full root access, install whatever software you like and reboot
whenever you feel like it). I use SliceHost and I'm very happy with their
service. On a 256Mb slice I run Apache, Jetty and MySQL with no
problems. VPSLink is an alternative provider that has lower spec slices
available (from $7 a month), but I can't vouch for their service having
never used it myself.
SliceHost: https://manage.slicehost.com/customers/new?referrer=456685539
(this is a referral link)
VPSLink: http://vpslink.com/vps-hosting/
Dave Miller
dedicated server. Rather than a full dedicated at $100, you could buy a
quarter of a dedicated VPS at $40. That was then.
Now, in order to compete on price, some VPS providers are cutting
servers into extremely small pieces. When Dan buys a 256MB virtual
server he is buying, in essence, a computer with 256MB of total RAM. In
that there is no GUI to suck up power, that can work (as Dan attests).
When other vendors try to cut that down further (a 64MB computer?)
they're either trying to kid the customers or they're kidding themselves.
It comes down to how much you want to be involved in customizing the
server and maintaining it. MB for MB managed hosting is cheaper than VPS
and removes the need to do maintenance, security updates, etc. VPS gives
you a totally customized experience as a practicing server admin.
--
Dave Miller
Java Web Hosting at:
http://www.cheap-jsp-hosting.com/
thufir
> 1. is there any format considered more vanilla than ZIP for distributing
> Java source?
>
> 2. If you distribute source via a Version control system, which is the
> preferred one for Java multiplatform?
>
> 3. Is there a place where I can post my source in a vcs for free or
> cheaply? SourceForge turned me down because of my "non-miltary use"
> restriction. My ISP is always too busy to do the work to let me set up
> my own server.
>
I like code.google.com, which is free, which uses subversion (similar to
cvs), but git seems popular (I don't know any git websites). Dunno about
the licensing, with google you have to select from a preset list. If the
license you want isn't there, then you can always request that from
google -- they seem pretty responsive and have a google group for
code.google.com stuff.
How much code do you have that it must be compressed? When you checkout
code from subversion there's no compression. If you're compressing, that
sounds like an opportunity for file corruption.
-Thufir
thufir
> JAR file?
>
> Although that is essentially the same as a ZIP file, it is "built into"
> Java.
On that note, you can include the src directory when the jar is built, so
that, yes, the jar runs the app, but source can be extracted. ?
-Thufir
Tom Anderson
> On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 12:21:18 +0000, Roedy Green wrote:
>
>> 1. is there any format considered more vanilla than ZIP for distributing
>> Java source?
>
> How much code do you have that it must be compressed?
I think the desire to use an archive file is more about having one single
file to distribute than about reducing size. Even then, reducing size is
useful - it might not make much difference to the downloader, but a 60%
reduction in file size also means a 60% reduction in Roedy's bandwidth
use, which could save him some dollars. And that's Canadian dollars, which
are really worth something!
> When you checkout code from subversion there's no compression. If
> you're compressing, that sounds like an opportunity for file corruption.
Oh really. And you've had that happen to you, have you?
A compressed file has better protection against external corruption than
an uncompressed one - there are fewer bits to be hit by cosmic rays or
other random processes, and all archive formats worth bothering with
include checksums, which will detect many kinds of corruption. An
increased chance of corruption could only come from a defective
implementation of the compressor or decompressor, and the simple fact is
that there aren't many such implementations in use in the wild.
tom
--
Is that dark pixel a prox mine or a bullet hole? HERE COME THE PROX MINE
SWEATS! -- D
Roedy Green
wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :
>I don't understand this bit. Unless your ISP is the host what have
>they got to do with setting up your own server? On the other hand, if
>they are willing to provide a free host, then I would keep nagging.
At this point I have only static html serving, offered free. For me
to have the ability to set up my own code he has to do various changes
to ensure I don't screw up other clients.
Roedy Green
wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :
>I like code.google.com, which is free, which uses subversion
isn't that just for google widgets?
Roedy Green
wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :
>How much code do you have that it must be compressed? When you checkout
>code from subversion there's no compression. If you're compressing, that
>sounds like an opportunity for file corruption.
My source code is perfectly ordinary and not that big, under 25 MB, no
compression. Then there are the docs, scripts, class files, jars etc.
Zipped it is about 65 MB.
The website is about 700 MB of HTML, images, zips etc. That is what I
was thinking about gzipping to improve response.
Roedy Green
<tw...@urchin.earth.li> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who
said :
>I think the desire to use an archive file is more about having one single
>file to distribute than about reducing size. Even then, reducing size is
>useful - it might not make much difference to the downloader, but a 60%
>reduction in file size also means a 60% reduction in Roedy's bandwidth
>use, which could save him some dollars. And that's Canadian dollars, which
>are really worth something!
The desire to serve via a VCS system is primarily to comply with a
request from JetBrains intellij IDEA, my IDE. They want me to do that
as a condition for getting a free copy of the IDE.
It it also might encourage interest in my code, making it more
"serious" and getting free publicity from the hosting VCS.
Anyone trying to stay on top of my many micro changes could do it more
efficiently than by downloading entire ZIPs each time. It also makes
it clearer to them just what I changed.
Roedy Green
<tw...@urchin.earth.li> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who
said :
>Oh really. And you've had that happen to you, have you?
>
>A compressed file has better protection against external corruption than
>an uncompressed one - there are fewer bits to be hit by cosmic rays or
>other random processes, and all archive formats worth bothering with
>include checksums, which will detect many kinds of corruption. An
>increased chance of corruption could only come from a defective
>implementation of the compressor or decompressor, and the simple fact is
>that there aren't many such implementations in use in the wild.
The other nice feature of compression is it comes with an extra layer
of checksum. If something does go wrong with the transmission
(usually the tail end chopped off) you will soon find out.
The protocols that version control systems use can be quite clever for
syncing two copies of a program to detect deltas, or to update a
version. They don't have to send the entire thing either way. It
would make sense for them to compress that delta protocol as well. I
don't know exactly what they do, however.
That fact that it is not common knowledge how the protocols work is a
good sign. People only tend to know about stuff that DOESN'T work
properly.
Jason Cavett
>
> tom
>
> --
> We can only see a short distance ahead, but we can see plenty there that
> needs to be done. -- Alan Turing
Or Subversion (SVN). CVS-like, but a lot nicer/better features.
Arne Vajhøj
> 1. is there any format considered more vanilla than ZIP for
> distributing Java source?
No.
foobar-n.m-bin.zip for just want to run it people
foobar-n.m-src.zip for build yourself people
source control for contributors
> 2. If you distribute source via a Version control system, which is the
> preferred one for Java multiplatform?
CVS or SVN
There is a move from CVS to SVN, but I believe there are still a better
chance than people has CVS support already.
Arne
Lew
> On that note, you can include the src directory when the jar is built, so
> that, yes, the jar runs the app, but source can be extracted. ?
Sure, although I haven't seen that done much. Quite often a JAR will include
the source side-by-side with the .class files in the same subdirectories,
although I personally like your way better.
--
Lew
Lew
> That may have been the case a few years ago, but I don't think it is
> now. I'd say that Subversion is at least as widely supported as CVS.
Call me Luddite, but I don't get it. CVS works great, and I've taken the time
to learn some of its cooler features, and I don't like all the "improvements"
in Subversion. Some, sure, but not all, and not enough to justify the
learning curve. So far.
--
Lew
Lew
> Or Subversion (SVN). CVS-like, but a lot nicer/better features.
Not a lot nice, and not all the features are better, and does it really do
everything that CVS does?
--
Lew
Hendrik Maryns
Hash: SHA1
Lew schreef:
Not being an expert in the matter, I’d have to not agree with you. Svn
is *designed* to be a successor and enhancement to cvs. Atomic commits,
a lot of functions that to not need a server connection which do in cvs
etc. And you can be sure that it does most of what cvs does. Although
it is not a 1-1 replacement, the commands are different, of course.
And then, there is cvs2svn and svnview (makes repository available for
browsing).
H.
- --
Hendrik Maryns
http://tcl.sfs.uni-tuebingen.de/~hendrik/
==================
http://aouw.org
Ask smart questions, get good answers:
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
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Hendrik Maryns
Hash: SHA1
Lew schreef:
Ok, this is getting OT, but could you elaborate on that? I use both,
svn for my own projects and cvs for other projects I contribute to, and
I have to say svn suits me better most of the time. Though I have to
admit that cvs is also still developing and getting better.
H.
- --
Hendrik Maryns
http://tcl.sfs.uni-tuebingen.de/~hendrik/
==================
http://aouw.org
Ask smart questions, get good answers:
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
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Daniel Dyer
What, in particular, do you dislike about Subversion compared to CVS?
Atomic commits are a big plus, IMO. I also prefer having one single
revision number for the entire repository rather than a separate one for
each file. Subversion's handling of binary files is a lot better (none of
that cvswrappers nonsense). Branching and tagging are constant time
operations, moving and renaming files without detaching their history is
also possible.
That's not to say that CVS is not adequate for many projects. It is still
infinitely preferable to Visual SourceSafe.
Roedy Green
it"> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :
>Atomic commits are a big plus, IMO.
Subversion versions not only file contents and file existence, but
also directories, copies, and renames. This means you can delete and
restore directories. You don’t have to keep dead empty directories
around forever as in CVS. It also means that Subversion keeps track of
the history of the renaming of a file. In CVS renaming looks like the
deletion and creation of a new file with no record of the connection.
Owen Jacobson
> Lew schreef:
> | Daniel Dyer wrote:
> |
> |> That may have been the case a few years ago, but I don't think it is
> |> now. I'd say that Subversion is at least as widely supported as CVS.
> |
> | Call me Luddite, but I don't get it. CVS works great, and I've taken
> | the time to learn some of its cooler features, and I don't like all the
> | "improvements" in Subversion. Some, sure, but not all, and not enough
> | to justify the learning curve. So far.
>
> Ok, this is getting OT, but could you elaborate on that? I use both,
> svn for my own projects and cvs for other projects I contribute to, and
> I have to say svn suits me better most of the time. Though I have to
> admit that cvs is also still developing and getting better.
Of the (fairly wide) range of version control tools I've used, svn's
approach to branches and merging is the second most primitive - second
to CVS. That's improving; svn 1.5 adds a much-needed merge-tracking
feature, but ultimately branches need to be a fundamental concept for
a version control system, and for svn they're not; they're a second-
order consequence of another feature entirely, instead.
-o
Arne Vajhøj
> Lew schreef:
> | Jason Cavett wrote:
> |> Or Subversion (SVN). CVS-like, but a lot nicer/better features.
> |
> | Not a lot nice, and not all the features are better, and does it really
> | do everything that CVS does?
>
> Not being an expert in the matter, I’d have to not agree with you. Svn
> is *designed* to be a successor and enhancement to cvs. Atomic commits,
> a lot of functions that to not need a server connection which do in cvs
> etc. And you can be sure that it does most of what cvs does. Although
> it is not a 1-1 replacement, the commands are different, of course.
SVN is written the intention to be a replacement for CVS, so
obviously it is better from a feature perspective (atomic
commits and binary file support being the two biggies).
But the changes are not that important for most users.
So if it is a new project and the tools has support for
SVN, then pick SVN, but if the project already is in CVS
or of the tools does not have SVN support out of the box,
then CVS will likely be more cost efficient - the benefits
of the new features can simply not compensate for any conversion
problems or tool upgrades.
Arne
Lew
> On Jul 24, 6:51 am, Hendrik Maryns <gtw37b...@sneakemail.com> wrote:
>> Lew schreef:
>> | Daniel Dyer wrote:
>> |
>> |> That may have been the case a few years ago, but I don't think it is
>> |
>> | Call me Luddite, but I don't get it. CVS works great, and I've taken
>> | the time to learn some of its cooler features, and I don't like all the
>> | "improvements" in Subversion. Some, sure, but not all, and not enough
>> | to justify the learning curve. So far.
>>
>> Ok, this is getting OT, but could you elaborate on that? I use both,
>> svn for my own projects and cvs for other projects I contribute to, and
>> I have to say svn suits me better most of the time. Though I have to
>> admit that cvs is also still developing and getting better.
>
> Of the (fairly wide) range of version control tools I've used, svn's
> approach to branches and merging is the second most primitive - second
> to CVS. That's improving; svn 1.5 adds a much-needed merge-tracking
> feature, but ultimately branches need to be a fundamental concept for
> a version control system, and for svn they're not; they're a second-
> order consequence of another feature entirely, instead.
I won't claim CVS is "better" than svn or anything else.
For my criteria, CVS handles branches beautifully. I use them a lot and they
work well, as does its merge capability. I routinely develop a project on two
branches simultaneously in CVS - the trunk for portable code and the other
branch for IDE-specific artifacts. I have also used it in a more traditional
way, to maintain a production and a development branch.
I have used many version-control systems, including Subversion. CVS is the
only one at which I am accomplished, i.e., I can administer it and do all
kinds of nifty things with it. None of the rest offer advantages worth the
learning curve. It's the same with the Dvorak keyboard layout. Even if its
basis were more sound than the QWERTY for touch-typing, I am too learned in
the old way to learn anew. CVS just does the job too well to justify all the
work of learning Subversion.
The advantage of svn that I dislike is uniform versioning of all artifacts in
a project. Perhaps I misunderstand the feature, but it limits my assembly
stage. CVS maintains independent version trees for each artifact, tied
together via the labeling mechanism. It also allows a logical project view of
multiple actual projects, allowing a unified view across a project that really
subsumes many, without restricting the ability to mix and match for other
projects or releases.
Other aspects of svn clearly are better than their counterparts in CVS. Just
not enough to sway me.
--
Lew
--
Lew
Lew
> Atomic commits are a big plus, IMO. I also prefer having one single
> revision number for the entire repository rather than a separate one for
That's precisely what I despise in SVN.
> each file. Subversion's handling of binary files is a lot better (none
> of that cvswrappers nonsense).
"Nonsense"? Could you use an evaluation supportable by evidence? And provide
the evidence?
There's absolutely nothing wrong with CVS's 'cvswrappers' mechanism. It works
and it's completely under my control.
What exactly does svn do better, other than awe because it isn't "nonsense"?
> Branching and tagging are constant time operations,
How long does branching and tagging take in CVS? I've never known it to take
more than a blink.
> moving and renaming files without detaching their history is
> also possible.
That is a good feature in Subversion. It's also possible in CVS. The
advantage to SVN is that it includes it in the menu; for CVS you have to know
how to do it. If you do know how, it's easy. It's also not really useful.
By default, CVS maintains the history of the old file name/location with the
old name/location anyway, so it isn't lost. It's just not automatically tied
to the history of the new name/location.
Advantage: Subversion, sure - big win.
> That's not to say that CVS is not adequate for many projects.
Mighty tolerant there, old bean.
I find CVS shines for every project, despite its handful of warts, because it
is flexible, has many advanced features such as the ability to email you when
changes happen, supports simultaneous editing by several authors very well,
does binary just fine, allows you to choose for yourself what levels of each
artifact constitute a version, gives fine-grained control of how separately
maintained projects interact, integrates beautifully with automated testing
protocols, is simple to learn and master, rarely breaks and is easily fixed
when it does.
> It is still infinitely preferable to Visual SourceSafe.
Really? Because for Windows projects, VSS is really an excellent product, so
that's high praise for CVS indeed.
--
Lew
Lew
> Subversion versions not only file contents and file existence, but
> also directories, copies, and renames. This means you can delete and
> restore directories. You don’t have to keep dead empty directories
> around forever as in CVS. It also means that Subversion keeps track of
You don't have to keep dead empty directories around in CVS either. That's
urban legend.
> the history of the renaming of a file. In CVS renaming looks like the
> deletion and creation of a new file with no record of the connection.
True. At least it keeps the history, so nothing is actually lost but the
connection.
--
Lew
Arne Vajhøj
> Daniel Dyer wrote:
>> It is still infinitely preferable to Visual SourceSafe.
>
> Really? Because for Windows projects, VSS is really an excellent
> product, so that's high praise for CVS indeed.
I have never worked with VSS, but it has a pretty bad
reputation.
The typical issue reported is "repository corruption".
Arne
Lew
> SVN is written the intention to be a replacement for CVS, so
> obviously it is better from a feature perspective (atomic
> commits and binary file support being the two biggies).
From my point of view, atomic commits are a loser. I prefer CVS's way. I
also have no problem with CVS's handling of binary files. Could someone
please educate me on the thing that SVN does with that?
Solving a pain point that causes no pain fails to convert me.
So in my particular situation, not transferable to any of you reading this
unless you, too, think that control of what constitutes a project-wide version
yourself is actually an advantage not a problem, and that binary-file handling
in CVS is adequate, the two "biggies" work out to be a major disadvantage and
a «so what?», respectively.
--
Lew
Lew
I know, I know, but my real point there is that to simply compare CVS to a
reputed pig without specific points of comparison, nor to support the
denigration of the "pig", left holes in the argument. I was not aware of the
specific issues reported with VSS myself, and my own work experiences with it
were always trouble free, so I had no reason to accept either of the logical
holes in the argument.
So you have heard of specific issues without experiencing the product, and I
experienced the product without hearing of those issues.
--
Lew
Tim Smith
Arne Vajhøj <ar...@vajhoej.dk> wrote:
> SVN is written the intention to be a replacement for CVS, so
> obviously it is better from a feature perspective (atomic
> commits and binary file support being the two biggies).
>
> But the changes are not that important for most users.
>
> So if it is a new project and the tools has support for
> SVN, then pick SVN, but if the project already is in CVS
> or of the tools does not have SVN support out of the box,
> then CVS will likely be more cost efficient - the benefits
> of the new features can simply not compensate for any conversion
> problems or tool upgrades.
Subversion has one *huge* improvement though, which could make it worth
switching an existing project. In Subversion, branching and tagging
actually make sense. The do not in CVS. (If you have used CVS a long
time, and used branching a lot, then you might *think* it makes
sense--but that's because CVS has damaged you. :-)).
Oh, Subversion handles directories and symbolic links and permissions
and other metadata correctly, which can be a tremendous help for some
projects.
--
--Tim Smith
Tim Smith
> Call me Luddite, but I don't get it. CVS works great, and I've taken
> the time to learn some of its cooler features, and I don't like all
> the "improvements" in Subversion. Some, sure, but not all, and not
> enough to justify the learning curve. So far.
The Subversion learning curve is trivial, especially compared to CVS. I
can typically teach someone who has never used a version control system
enough about Subversion in 10 or 15 minutes that they can productively
use it, and they will have a good mental model for how a repository
works so they can understand what their commands do, and so they can
comfortably handle tags and branches.
I basically tell them they can view the repository as a filesystem on
the Subversion server. It's organized just like a normal file system,
but since it is not mounted on their machine, they have to use special
commands to operate on it. (This is not an alien concept to them,
because they will have used scp to copy files to and from other
machines).
I can then tell them that to work on a project, they copy its directory
to their local machine. I can tell them about the commands to compare
their copy to the copy in the repository, and about how to copy their
files back. I also tell them that when they copy files back, they can
include a comment telling why they are doing so.
Next, I tell them that this remote filesystem has two special properties
that normal filesystems do not have.
1. Whenever anyone makes a change to the filesystem, a backup is
immediately made. That backup is assigned a serial number. All of
these backups are available, so you can copy files from any of the
backups if you wish, or compare files between any of the backups, the
current repository, or your copies.
2. Making a copy of a file or directory is essentially free. The
repository uses a copy on write mechanism to delay actually using disk
space until one or both copies change.
Now, once they have all this, I can explain our conventions at work.
For example, we have a directory named "deployed" in the repository. If
you deploy the "foo" project, then you make a copy of the deployment in
"deployed/foo/YYYYMMDD_HHMM", where YYYYMMDD_HHMM.
I'd probably mention at this point that this is what other systems, like
CVS, would call a tag, but because of special property #2 (free
copying), there really aren't tags per se in Subversion. If you want
something like tags, you do what we did: establish a convention based on
named copying.
Finally, I'd tell them about branches. Like tags, branches are
something that isn't actually built into Subversion, because, like tags,
you can get the same effect by establishing a convention for copying.
Where I work, we have a "branches" directory, and if I wanted a branch
of the "foo" project to experiment on, I'd just copy "foo" to
"branches/foo/tzs_experiment".
There. That, plus a simple cheat sheet to show what Subversion commands
to use for copying, diffing, and such, and also shows our office
conventions for the repository structure, is all even a total beginner
at revision control software needs to cover most of what they will need
for most of their work.
--
--Tim Smith
Mike Schilling
> In article <e5GdnQVGnI9cZBrV...@comcast.com>,
>> Call me Luddite, but I don't get it. CVS works great, and I've
>> taken
>> the time to learn some of its cooler features, and I don't like all
>> the "improvements" in Subversion. Some, sure, but not all, and not
>> enough to justify the learning curve. So far.
>
> The Subversion learning curve is trivial, especially compared to
> CVS.
> I can typically teach someone who has never used a version control
> system enough about Subversion in 10 or 15 minutes that they can
> productively use it, and they will have a good mental model for how
> a
> repository works so they can understand what their commands do, and
> so they can comfortably handle tags and branches.
I'd be curious to see a comparison between Subversion and perfroce by
someone who's a knowledgeable user of both. (I'm aware that one is
free and the other isn't. Given how important an SCM system is to the
efficient running of a development shop, I consider the cost
negligible.)
Lew
> There. That, plus a simple cheat sheet to show what Subversion commands
> to use for copying, diffing, and such, and also shows our office
> conventions for the repository structure, is all even a total beginner
> at revision control software needs to cover most of what they will need
> for most of their work.
How do I set up SVN to email me when changes are made? How do I set it up to
assemble a release from older versions of some artifacts and newer versions of
others? How to I set it up so that a common module is automatically included
in other projects as if part of that project? How do I set it up so that a)
multiple people can simultaneously edit an artifact or b) so that they cannot?
How do I recover a file that was deleted but now I want it again? How do I
simultaneously work on different branches of a single project, that is, a
branch for certain directories and files and a different branch for others?
My problem is not with the beginner features, for which CVS is just as easily
trainable using just about exactly what you outline for SVN training. My
problem is that I need subtler features.
--
Lew
Lew
> I'd be curious to see a comparison between Subversion and perfroce by
> someone who's a knowledgeable user of both. (I'm aware that one is
> free and the other isn't. Given how important an SCM system is to the
> efficient running of a development shop, I consider the cost
> negligible.)
Subversion and CVS are both open-source projects. What meaning of "free" are
you using?
--
Lew
Lew
Wait, is perfroce a version-control product? I thought it was just a word in
the question. Oops.
--
Lew
Lew
> Subversion has one *huge* improvement though, which could make it worth
> switching an existing project. In Subversion, branching and tagging
> actually make sense. The do not in CVS. (If you have used CVS a long
> time, and used branching a lot, then you might *think* it makes
> sense--but that's because CVS has damaged you. :-)).
CVS branching and tagging makes sense. Actually. And I am not damaged.
--
Lew
Owen Jacobson
> Owen Jacobson wrote:
> > On Jul 24, 6:51 am, Hendrik Maryns <gtw37b...@sneakemail.com> wrote:
> >> Lew schreef:
> >> | Daniel Dyer wrote:
> >> |
> >> |> That may have been the case a few years ago, but I don't think it is
> >> |> now. I'd say that Subversion is at least as widely supported as CVS..
> >> |
> >> | Call me Luddite, but I don't get it. CVS works great, and I've taken
> >> | the time to learn some of its cooler features, and I don't like all the
> >> | "improvements" in Subversion. Some, sure, but not all, and not enough
> >> | to justify the learning curve. So far.
>
> >> Ok, this is getting OT, but could you elaborate on that? I use both,
> >> svn for my own projects and cvs for other projects I contribute to, and
> >> I have to say svn suits me better most of the time. Though I have to
> >> admit that cvs is also still developing and getting better.
>
> > Of the (fairly wide) range of version control tools I've used, svn's
> > approach to branches and merging is the second most primitive - second
> > to CVS. That's improving; svn 1.5 adds a much-needed merge-tracking
> > feature, but ultimately branches need to be a fundamental concept for
> > a version control system, and for svn they're not; they're a second-
> > order consequence of another feature entirely, instead.
>
> I won't claim CVS is "better" than svn or anything else.
Don't mistake me here; my remarks about svn were intended to be
"damning with faint praise", not another argument for you to switch
from what you're happy with.
-o
Daniel Dyer
> Daniel Dyer wrote:
>> Atomic commits are a big plus, IMO. I also prefer having one single
>> revision number for the entire repository rather than a separate one for
>
> That's precisely what I despise in SVN.
I guess that's a question of personal preference. I find it easier for
communication to only have one version number. If you're using SVN, you
can just use the repository revision to refer to particular versions of
the whole project (in CVS it would be necessary to tag every revision that
you might be interested in referring back to).
> There's absolutely nothing wrong with CVS's 'cvswrappers' mechanism. It
> works and it's completely under my control.
>
> What exactly does svn do better, other than awe because it isn't
> "nonsense"?
OK, in SVN it's easier. It has never not worked for me, so I don't have
to worry about it. Sensible default behaviour trumps unnecessary
configurability.
>> moving and renaming files without detaching their history is also
>> possible.
>
> That is a good feature in Subversion. It's also possible in CVS. The
> advantage to SVN is that it includes it in the menu; for CVS you have to
> know how to do it. If you do know how, it's easy. It's also not really
> useful.
I don't know how to do it in CVS, I didn't realise it was possible. Have
you got a link that explains how, it might be useful to know?
> By default, CVS maintains the history of the old file name/location with
> the old name/location anyway, so it isn't lost. It's just not
> automatically tied to the history of the new name/location.
Yes, that's why I said "detached" rather than "lost".
>> That's not to say that CVS is not adequate for many projects.
>
> Mighty tolerant there, old bean.
Yes, CVS works. I don't dislike it (the internals are ugly, but it
works). I still believe that Subversion is better, and many argue that
distributed version control systems such as Git and Mercurial are better
still (I don't have enough experience with them to have an opinion on
this).
>> It is still infinitely preferable to Visual SourceSafe.
>
> Really? Because for Windows projects, VSS is really an excellent
> product,
No it's not. It's terrible. It's certainly the worst version control
software that I know of. Repository corruption, poor performance, very
little security, unusable remotely without 3rd party add-ons, inability to
have two working copies of the same project at the same time, serious
problems with timezones, and more (like converting directories to
uppercase on import, thus breaking Java packages). But I won't go on
about VSS again here. If you're at all interested, you can read my
opinionated rant that I wrote previously
(http://blog.uncommons.org/2008/05/23/visual-sourcesafe-a-public-service-announcement/).
It even has a kind word or two for CVS.
Daniel Dyer
> Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>> SVN is written the intention to be a replacement for CVS, so
>> obviously it is better from a feature perspective (atomic
>> commits and binary file support being the two biggies).
>
> From my point of view, atomic commits are a loser.
Why do you believe that atomic commits are a loser?
Roedy Green
it"> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :
>No it's not. It's terrible. It's certainly the worst version control
>software that I know of.
I gather you are too young to remember PVCS, Polytron Version Control
System. It was so difficult to use the company I worked for asked me
to write front end for it.
Roedy Green
quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :
>Wait, is perfroce a version-control product? I thought it was just a word in
>the question. Oops.
yes, see http://www.perforce.com/
for a list of version control software packages see
http://mindprod.com/jgloss/versioncontrol.html
Mike Schilling
Sorry. If I'd correctly spelled it "Perforce" I don't think I'd have
confused you.
Daniel Dyer
> Tim Smith wrote:
>> There. That, plus a simple cheat sheet to show what Subversion
>> commands to use for copying, diffing, and such, and also shows our
>> office conventions for the repository structure, is all even a total
>> beginner at revision control software needs to cover most of what they
>> will need for most of their work.
>
> How do I set up SVN to email me when changes are made?
http://svnbook.red-bean.com/en/1.4/svn.reposadmin.create.html#svn.reposadmin.create.hooks
BTW, that book is a good place to start for any SVN questions.
> How do I set it up to assemble a release from older versions of some
> artifacts and newer versions of others? How to I set it up so that a
> common module is automatically included in other projects as if part of
> that project?
There is an svn:externals property that you can set on a directory, which
is like a repository symlink (this can point either somewhere else in your
repository or to a completely different repository elsewhere). You can
also specify a particular revision with externals, which I think would
satisfy your first scenario.
http://svnbook.red-bean.com/en/1.4/svn.advanced.externals.html
> How do I set it up so that a) multiple people can simultaneously edit an
> artifact or b) so that they cannot?
Like CVS, "a" is the default, but "b" is also possible:
http://svnbook.red-bean.com/en/1.4/svn.advanced.locking.html
> How do I recover a file that was deleted but now I want it again?
http://svnbook.red-bean.com/en/1.4/svn.branchmerge.commonuses.html#svn.branchmerge.commonuses.undo
> How do I simultaneously work on different branches of a single project,
> that is, a branch for certain directories and files and a different
> branch for others?
I'm trying to get my head around the use case for this one (perhaps a
concrete example would help?). I'm pretty sure it's possible since you
can branch at any level of the tree and you can use externals to include
different versions of different directories. Whether it's a good idea or
not depends on what you are trying to do.
Daniel Pitts
> Tim Smith wrote:
>> There. That, plus a simple cheat sheet to show what Subversion
>> commands to use for copying, diffing, and such, and also shows our
>> office conventions for the repository structure, is all even a total
>> beginner at revision control software needs to cover most of what they
>> will need for most of their work.
>
> How do I set up SVN to email me when changes are made? How do I set it
> up to assemble a release from older versions of some artifacts and newer
> versions of others?
it myself). Someone else manages the administrative tasks for SVN and
CVS at my company.
> How to I set it up so that a common module is
> automatically included in other projects as if part of that project?
> How do I set it up so that a) multiple people can simultaneously edit an
> artifact or b) so that they cannot?
> How do I recover a file that was
> deleted but now I want it again?
update with the revision number that has the file.
> How do I simultaneously work on
> different branches of a single project, that is, a branch for certain
> directories and files and a different branch for others?
SVN maintains the same type of metadata that CVS does about branches and
locations.
>
> My problem is not with the beginner features, for which CVS is just as
> easily trainable using just about exactly what you outline for SVN
> training. My problem is that I need subtler features.
Your needs can still be fulfilled. With a similar (if smaller) learning
curve.
The big selling point to me is that SVN uses a "proper" database,
instead of using RCS. In my experience RCS has been corruption-prone,
and when you have hundreds of revisions and hundreds of tags/branches,
it becomes a performance issue.
--
Daniel Pitts' Tech Blog: <http://virtualinfinity.net/wordpress/>
Lew
> Your needs can still be fulfilled. With a similar (if smaller) learning
> curve.
>
> The big selling point to me is that SVN uses a "proper" database,
> instead of using RCS. In my experience RCS has been corruption-prone,
> and when you have hundreds of revisions and hundreds of tags/branches,
> it becomes a performance issue.
Excellent information. Thank you.
--
Lew
Lew
> On Fri, 25 Jul 2008 02:22:50 +0100, Lew <com.lewscanon@lew> wrote:
>
>> Daniel Dyer wrote:
>>> Atomic commits are a big plus, IMO. I also prefer having one single
>>> revision number for the entire repository rather than a separate one for
>>
>> That's precisely what I despise in SVN.
>
> I guess that's a question of personal preference. I find it easier for
Indeed.
> communication to only have one version number. If you're using SVN, you
> can just use the repository revision to refer to particular versions of
> the whole project (in CVS it would be necessary to tag every revision
> that you might be interested in referring back to).
The upside of the CVS way is that you can freely check in a particular
artifact every time it correctly compiles, several times an hour if you like.
Only when it's ready to play nice with others do you then tag it with the
project-wide version number. Thus you are not *forced* to use the repository
revision to refer to every artifact; CVS has you select the ones you actually
want to be project-wide. I prefer the control. Others don't. I just take
issue with it being trumpeted as some huge advantage without recognizing the
loss of control it entails. If you prefer the convenience to the control, ok,
but not everyone does, so the cost should be overt.
>>> moving and renaming files without detaching their history is also
>>> possible.
>>
>> That is a good feature in Subversion. It's also possible in CVS. The
>> advantage to SVN is that it includes it in the menu; for CVS you have
>> to know how to do it. If you do know how, it's easy. It's also not
>> really useful.
>
> I don't know how to do it in CVS, I didn't realise it was possible.
> Have you got a link that explains how, it might be useful to know?
I'll just tell you. Use the shell 'mv' command.
(Gasps of outrage - "But that requires using (shudder) an external program!")
CVS is old school. It's designed to fit with well-known and universal
utilities, instead of being everything in its own menu. It breaks nothing to
just move the history. It is, however, not such a huge feature.
Moving or renaming usually happens early and little important history needs to
cross the 'mv' barrier. One can look up the old information in CVS easily
enough if one really needs it, which is rare. CVS doesn't lose the history,
it merely fails to automatically connect it across the 'mv'. Mathematical
expectation weights the factors in the choice of system.
Anyway, I certainly am not against SVN, just not willing to administer it at
this time.
--
Lew
Lew
> Sorry. If I'd correctly spelled it "Perforce" I don't think I'd have
> confused you.
Nope, it would have, because I factored in the spelling and it still confused
me, but no worries, not your fault. Totally a misread on my part.
--
Lew
Lew
> a perfect FAQ
Lew asked:
>> How do I simultaneously work on different branches of a single
>> project, that is, a branch for certain directories and files and a
>> different branch for others?
Daniel:
> I'm trying to get my head around the use case for this one (perhaps a
> concrete example would help?). I'm pretty sure it's possible since you
> can branch at any level of the tree and you can use externals to include
> different versions of different directories. Whether it's a good idea
> or not depends on what you are trying to do.
I'm certain that SVN can handle it, now.
I hate putting IDE-specific artifacts in the trunk of a repository. Only
project-neutral artifacts belong there - the actual deployed source. I use
NetBeans, which has its own (frighteningly complete) build.xml and a project
directory 'nbproject/' in every project. Those things don't belong in the
official build, and they don't reliably convey to a different developer or
workstation. I put them in a branch labeled something like 'lews' or 'nb'.
Then I check out that branch for the IDE-private stuff and the trunk for
everything else. In this fashion I protect my editing/testing sessions with
all the advantages of a repository, but isolate it from the official build.
Others can do the same, with branches named for the combination of developer
and environment, so they can roam and still work effectively on the main code
base.
--
Lew
Christian
> 1. is there any format considered more vanilla than ZIP for
> distributing Java source?
>
> 2. If you distribute source via a Version control system, which is the
> preferred one for Java multiplatform?
>
I heard bazaar would be a nice new source control that might replace svn
in some new projects...
And as it seems not to have the need for a real server just ftp access
to some webspace it might work with some normal webhosting site that
might be for free or at least cheaper than a server.
> 3. Is there a place where I can post my source in a vcs for free or
> cheaply? SourceForge turned me down because of my "non-miltary use"
> restriction. My ISP is always too busy to do the work to let me set
> up my own server.
>
>
I have seen servers with Linux OS for homeuse starting 12€ per month (no
vserver! just a normal server that is so cheap because it has no own
disc, just access to some SAN where it boots from/has discspace)
100 Mbit line .. no transfer limit..
Getting something like this is probably the best thing you can get ...
not for free ... but nearly as cheap as paying the electricity for a
server with a spinning hdd at home.
vservers on the other hand might be cheaper ... though come probably
with transferlimits of less than 500 GiB per month if thats a problem..
Christian
Arne Vajhøj
> Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>> SVN is written the intention to be a replacement for CVS, so
>> obviously it is better from a feature perspective (atomic
>> commits and binary file support being the two biggies).
>
> way.
What ?
If something happen during checkin you prefer the CVS way of
having half the changes checked in over the SVN way of either
having none or all changes checked in ??
> I also have no problem with CVS's handling of binary files. Could
> someone please educate me on the thing that SVN does with that?
Among other things SVN do store diffs of binary files instead
of full copies like CVS.
Arne
Arne Vajhøj
> Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>>> Daniel Dyer wrote:
>>>> It is still infinitely preferable to Visual SourceSafe.
>>>
>>> Really? Because for Windows projects, VSS is really an excellent
>>
>> I have never worked with VSS, but it has a pretty bad
>> reputation.
>>
>> The typical issue reported is "repository corruption".
>
> I know, I know, but my real point there is that to simply compare CVS to
> a reputed pig without specific points of comparison, nor to support the
> denigration of the "pig", left holes in the argument. I was not aware
> of the specific issues reported with VSS myself, and my own work
> experiences with it were always trouble free, so I had no reason to
> accept either of the logical holes in the argument.
>
> So you have heard of specific issues without experiencing the product,
> and I experienced the product without hearing of those issues.
You will not find it difficult to find the stories about VSS.
http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.dotnet.general/browse_frm/thread/2c75af2d071f853f/ee126352525fd4e2
http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.dotnet.languages.csharp/browse_frm/thread/d21dfc811f7984bb/1cb566e14a303866
are rather typical !
Arne
Daniel Pitts
> Anyway, I certainly am not against SVN, just not willing to administer
> it at this time.
That is certainly a fair statement. I would gently suggest that you
take some time in the near future to try Subversion out though. It's
one of those things that one tends to think "This isn't that bad" at
first, and then get pleasantly surprised as you need to do more and more
things with it.
Roedy Green
quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :
>That is a good feature in Subversion
By the way Version 1.5.1 of Subversion just came out.
See http://subversion.tigris.org/
I'm usually the first to notice because I use a signed Java Applet I
wrote called Vercheck that checks daily for new releases.
It currently monitors 57 programs. You can add your own.
See http://mindprod.com/applet/vercheck.html
"010 Editor", "3.0.1"
"Ace Utilities", "4.1"
"Adobe Acrobat", "8.1.2"
"Adobe Flash", "9.0.124.0"
"AllChars", "4.0.321"
"ANT", "1.7.0"
"Apache Tomcat", "6.0.16"
"Apple iTunes", "7.7"
"Apple QuickTime", "7.5"
"BitTorrent", "6.0.3"
"Boot-It NG", "1.85a"
"Clipmate", "7.3.10:209"
"Copernic Desktop", "2.3"
"Corel Paint Shop Pro X2", "12.01"
"Creative Element", "2.9.908"
"Excelsior Jet", "6.4"
"FastStone", "6.2"
"Firefox", "3.0.1"
"Flock", "1.2.4"
"Forté Agent", "4.2:1118"
"FTP Voyager", "15.1.0.0"
"Funduc SR", "5.9"
"Goldwave", "5.25"
"HTMLValidator beta", "9.0 beta 3"
"HTMLValidator", "8.04"
"Icon XP", "3.18"
"IconLover", "4.23"
"IntelliJ Idea", "7.0.3"
"Java JDK 1.4", "1.4.2_18"
"Java JDK 1.5", "1.5.0_16"
"Java JDK 1.6 Beta", "1.6.0_10:25"
"Java JDK 1.6", "1.6.0_07"
"JavaMail", "1.4.1"
"JMF", "2.1.1e"
"Mioplanet", "3.1"
"O&O Defrag", "10.0"
"Opera browser", "9.51"
"PADGen", "3.0.1.37"
"Paragon Disk Manager", "2009:5905"
"POV-Ray", "3.6.1"
"Safari", "3.1.2"
"SeaMonkey", "1.1.11"
"SlickEdit", "2008"
"Subversion", "1.5.1"
"TakeCommand/4NT", "9.02:151"
"Thunderbird email", "2.0.0.16"
"TopStyle", "3.5.0.9"
"Trillian", "3.1.10.0"
"Ubuntu", "8.04"
"Unlocker", "1.8.6"
"VerCheck", "2.9"
"WinRAR", "3.71"
"WinZip Command Line", "2.3"
"WinZip", "11.2"
"Wireshark", "1.0.2"
"XaraXtreme", "4.0.4966"
"Xenu", "1.2j"
Lew
> Lew wrote:
>> Anyway, I certainly am not against SVN, just not willing to administer
>> it at this time.
>
> That is certainly a fair statement. I would gently suggest that you
> take some time in the near future to try Subversion out though. It's
> one of those things that one tends to think "This isn't that bad" at
> first, and then get pleasantly surprised as you need to do more and more
> things with it.
I have tried SVN - worked on projects that use it as the repository. This is
factored in to my comments.
--
Lew
Lew
> Lew wrote:
>> Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>>> SVN is written the intention to be a replacement for CVS, so
>>> obviously it is better from a feature perspective (atomic
>>> commits and binary file support being the two biggies).
>>
>> From my point of view, atomic commits are a loser. I prefer CVS's way.
>
> What ?
>
> If something happen during checkin you prefer the CVS way of
> having half the changes checked in over the SVN way of either
> having none or all changes checked in ??
Sorry, I must misunderstand what an "atomic commit" is.
--
Lew
Arne Vajhøj
Try read:
http://one-size-doesnt-fit-all.blogspot.com/2008/06/jdev-why-is-subversion-preferred-over.html
Fundamentally atomic commits just mean traditional database ACID A.
I assume you were thinking about the version number issue again.
And it is somewhat related. At least it would not be possible
to do it the SVN way without the atomicity.
Arne
thufir
>> How much code do you have that it must be compressed?
>
> I think the desire to use an archive file is more about having one
> single file to distribute than about reducing size. Even then, reducing
> size is useful - it might not make much difference to the downloader,
> but a 60% reduction in file size also means a 60% reduction in Roedy's
> bandwidth use, which could save him some dollars. And that's Canadian
> dollars, which are really worth something!
LOL.
About the "one single file", with subversion you run a single command
which downloads all the source. I gotta say, it's easier than downloading
a zip file and then extracting.
For the bandwidth, you only really need to checkout once, then you're
generally just uploading small changes.
I think that git, like subversion, is "easy" on the bandwidth.
-Thufir
thufir
>> When you checkout code from subversion there's no compression. If
>> you're compressing, that sounds like an opportunity for file
>> corruption.
>
> Oh really. And you've had that happen to you, have you?
No, I just have aversion to binary files.
> A compressed file has better protection against external corruption than
> an uncompressed one - there are fewer bits to be hit by cosmic rays or
> other random processes, and all archive formats worth bothering with
> include checksums, which will detect many kinds of corruption. An
> increased chance of corruption could only come from a defective
> implementation of the compressor or decompressor, and the simple fact is
> that there aren't many such implementations in use in the wild.
-Thufir
thufir
> The desire to serve via a VCS system is primarily to comply with a
> request from JetBrains intellij IDEA, my IDE. They want me to do that as
> a condition for getting a free copy of the IDE.
subversion works nicely for me.
> It it also might encourage interest in my code, making it more "serious"
> and getting free publicity from the hosting VCS.
http://code.google.com works nicely for me.
> Anyone trying to stay on top of my many micro changes could do it more
> efficiently than by downloading entire ZIPs each time. It also makes it
> clearer to them just what I changed.
Plus, there are logs every time you commit a change, giving you an
opportunity to explain the change, or the branch, and so forth.
-Thufir
thufir
>>I like code.google.com, which is free, which uses subversion
>
> isn't that just for google widgets?
Not at all, "available and free for all open source projects."
You can do java code (I do), ruby on rails, whatever. python. They
partner with sourceforge but I'm not sure of the details regarding that.
"Project Hosting
Google Code runs a project hosting service[5] that provides revision
control using Subversion (the repositories are implemented on top of
Google's BigTable, but this is hidden to the user), an issue tracker, a
wiki for documentation, and a file download feature. The service is
available and free for all Open Source projects.
The site allows the projects to use only one of seven licenses (Apache,
Artistic, BSD, GPLv2, GPLv3, LGPL, and MIT). The limitation is part of
Google's stance against license proliferation."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Code
-Thufir
thufir
> Daniel Dyer wrote:
>> Atomic commits are a big plus, IMO. I also prefer having one single
>> revision number for the entire repository rather than a separate one
>> for
>
> That's precisely what I despise in SVN.
Why? I've only ever used svn. Isn't it good to know precisely what is
in the version?
-Thufir
thufir
> Repository corruption, poor performance, very little security, unusable
> remotely without 3rd party add-ons, inability to have two working copies
> of the same project at the same time, serious problems with timezones,
> and more (like converting directories to uppercase on import, thus
> breaking Java packages).
sounds like a keeper, particularly the "directories to uppercase" ;)
-Thufir
thufir
> I'm certain that SVN can handle it, now.
>
> I hate putting IDE-specific artifacts in the trunk of a repository.
> Only project-neutral artifacts belong there - the actual deployed
> source. I use NetBeans, which has its own (frighteningly complete)
> build.xml and a project directory 'nbproject/' in every project. Those
> things don't belong in the official build, and they don't reliably
> convey to a different developer or workstation.
From NB, I select an "existing source" app and point it the foo/src
folder which is, I think, the trunk -- it's whatever svn downloaded.
Then new packages and source code are added to the trunk on commits and
so forth.
-Thufir
Lew
> Why? I've only ever used svn. Isn't it good to know precisely what is
> in the version?
Based on responses in this group I am losing my fear of Subversion.
--
Lew
Lew
> From NB, I select an "existing source" app and point it the foo/src
> folder which is, I think, the trunk -- it's whatever svn downloaded.
> Then new packages and source code are added to the trunk on commits and
> so forth.
That's a good technique. I will keep it in mind when I am linking to svn
projects.
--
Lew
Mike Schilling
c.l.j.p, the anti-McCarthy.
thufir
Ah, good. Do post your results!
-Thufir
Roedy Green
wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :
>The site allows the projects to use only one of seven licenses (Apache,
>Artistic, BSD, GPLv2, GPLv3, LGPL, and MIT). The limitation is part of
>Google's stance against license proliferation."
This is my problem. I have a non-standard licence, public domain
effectively with one restriction, non-military use only.
Arne Vajhøj
> On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 00:30:39 GMT, thufir <hawat....@gmail.com>
> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :
>> The site allows the projects to use only one of seven licenses (Apache,
>> Artistic, BSD, GPLv2, GPLv3, LGPL, and MIT). The limitation is part of
>> Google's stance against license proliferation."
>
> This is my problem. I have a non-standard licence, public domain
> effectively with one restriction, non-military use only.
But that restriction also make it non open source, so even if
they allowed all open source it would be a problem.
Arne
Roedy Green
quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :
>
>Sorry, I must misunderstand what an "atomic commit" is.
If you check in a batch of changes, other people checking out won't
see any of them until the last one is safely in. They won't then get
an inconsistent set of code, half old, half new.
Roedy Green
wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :
> lesbian features,
WTF? Speller checker "correction?
Mike Schilling
> On Fri, 25 Jul 2008 11:53:37 GMT, Lew <arroga...@monkeyass.org>
> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :
>
>> lesbian features,
>
> WTF? Speller checker "correction?
That was a product of the spammer who repeats Lew's post with random
word changes.
Jason Cavett
> Joey Cavett wrote:
> > Or Subversion (SVN). CVS-like, but a lot nicer/better features.
>
> Not a lot unwary, and not all the features are better, and does it voluntarily do
> inexperience that CVS does?
>
> --
> Lew
>
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> From Jewish "scriptures".
>
> Hikkoth Akum X 1: "Do not save Christians in danger of death."
Other than atomic commits and the handling of binary files, I love the
fact that folders are versioned in SVN. This makes refactoring parts
of projects very easy to do (and it's still tracked in source
control). I know CVS can't do that. Definitely not a good thing for
any major development.
Lew
> > From Jewish "scriptures".
Please do not quote anti-Semitic claptrap that others have posted.
--
Lew
an
In article
<190a8597-b59c-4d68...@m73g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>, Lew
<l...@lewscanon.com> foamed at the mouth:
>Jason Cavett wrote:
>> > From Jewish "scriptures".
>Please do not quote anti-Semitic claptrap that others have posted.
Anti-Semitic claptrap, said the mouth foaming zionist pathological
liar and fabricator of bullshit?
Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.
If Jewish "scriptures" are "anti-Semitic",
then you need medical attention. Urgently.
First of all, those that use this rotten "anti-Semitic" trick,
are not Semites. They are Khazars, a Turko-Finnish tribe.
They came from what is now known as Ukraine and the
Caucasus region. They have never stepped a foot on the
"holy land".
Now, how about these, you zionist sicko?
Are they also "anti-Semitic"?
Quote:
[Zionism, fascism, ethnic cleansing, terrorism, war crimes, Khasars,
Illuminati, NWO]
"The epithet "anti-Semitism" is hurled to silence anyone,
even other Jews, brave enough to decry Israel's systematic,
decades-long pogrom against the Palestinian Arabs.
Because of the Holocaust, "anti-Semitism" is such a powerful
instrument of emotional blackmail that it effectively pre-empts
rational discussion of Israel and its conduct.
It is for this reason that many good people can witness
daily evidence of Israeli inhumanity toward the "Palestinians'
collective punishment," destruction of olive groves,
routine harassment, judicial prejudice, denial of medical services,
assassinations, torture, apartheid-based segregation, etc. --
yet not denounce it for fear of being branded "anti-Semitic."
To be free to acknowledge Zionism's racist nature, therefore,
one must debunk the calumny of "anti-Semitism."
Once this is done, not only will the criminality of Israel be
undeniable, but Israel, itself, will be shown to be the
embodiment of the very anti-Semitism it purports to condemn."
--- Greg Felton,
Israel: A monument to anti-Semitism
Quote:
"...Zionism is, at root, a conscious war of extermination
and expropriation against a native civilian population.
In the modern vernacular, Zionism is the theory and practice
of "ethnic cleansing," which the UN has defined as a war crime."
"Now, the Zionist Jews who founded Israel are another matter.
For the most part, they are not Semites, and their language
(Yiddish) is not semitic. These Ashkenazi ("German") Jews --
as opposed to the Sephardic ("Spanish") Jews -- have no
connection whatever to any of the aforementioned ancient
peoples or languages.
They are mostly East European Slavs descended from the Khazars,
a nomadic Turko-Finnic people that migrated out of the Caucasus
in the second century and came to settle, broadly speaking, in
what is now Southern Russia and Ukraine."
[...]
Thus what we know as the "Jewish State" of Israel is really an
ethnocentric garrison state established by a non-Semitic people
for the declared purpose of dispossessing and terrorizing a
civilian semitic people. In fact from Nov. 27, 1947, to
May 15, 1948, more that 300,000 Arabs were forced from their
homes and villages. By the end of the year, the number was
close to 800,000 by Israeli estimates. Today, Palestinian
refugees number in the millions."
--- Greg Felton,
Israel: A monument to anti-Semitism
Quote:
[Zionism, fascism, genocide, racism, ethnic cleansing, terrorism,
war crimes, Khasars, Illuminati, NWO]
As famed violinist Lord Yehudi Menuhin [Jew] told the French
newspaper Le Figaro in January 1988:
"It is extraordinary how nothing ever dies completely.
Even the evil which prevailed yesterday in Nazi Germany is
gaining ground in that country [Israel] today."
For it to have any moral authority, the UN must equate Zionism
with racism. If it doesn't, it tacitly condones Israel's war
of extermination against the Palestinians.
--- Greg Felton,
Israel: A monument to anti-Semitism
Quote:
In 1920, Winston Churchill made a distinction between national and
"International Jews." He said the latter are behind "a worldwide
conspiracy for the overthrow of civilization and the reconstitution of
society on the basis of arrested development, of envious malevolence,
and impossible equality..."
Quote:
Conservative observers state, that Israel was built
on the bones of at least two million Palestinians.
In Lydda alone Zionist killers murdered 50,000 Palestinians,
both Muslim and Christian.
Only about 5 percent of so called Jews are Semites,
whereas 95 percent are Khazars.
"...I know the blasphemy of them WHICH SAY THEY ARE JEWS,
and are not, BUT ARE THE SYNAGOGUE OF SATAN."
(Revelation 2:9, 3:9)
Quote:
"We have to kill all the Palestinians unless they are resigned
to live here as slaves."
--- Chairman Heilbrun
of the Committee for the Re-election of General Shlomo Lahat,
the mayor of Tel Aviv, October 1983.
Quote:
"The Palestinians are like crocodiles,
the more you give them meat,
they want more"....
--- Ehud Barak, Prime Minister of Israel
at the time - August 28, 2000.
Reported in the Jerusalem Post August 30, 2000
Quote:
"[The Palestinians are] beasts walking on two legs."
--- Menahim Begin,
speech to the Knesset, quoted in Amnon Kapeliouk,
"Begin and the Beasts".
New Statesman, 25 June 1982.
Quote:
"The Palestinians" would be crushed like grasshoppers ...
heads smashed against the boulders and walls."
--- Isreali Prime Minister
(at the time) in a speech to Jewish settlers
New York Times April 1, 1988
Quote:
"When we have settled the land,
all the Arabs will be able to do about it will be
to scurry around like drugged cockroaches in a bottle."
--- Raphael Eitan,
Chief of Staff of the Israeli Defence Forces,
New York Times, 14 April 1983.
Quote:
"How can we return the occupied territories?
There is nobody to return them to."
--- Golda Meir,
March 8, 1969.
Quote:
"There was no such thing as Palestinians,
they never existed."
--- Golda Meir,
Israeli Prime Minister, June 15, 1969
Quote:
Ben Gurion also warned in 1948:
"We must do everything to insure they ( the Palestinians)
never do return."
Assuring his fellow Zionists that Palestinians will never come
back to their homes.
"The old will die and the young will forget."
Quote:
"The Zionist lobby has a hobby
Leading Congress by the nose,
So anywhere the lobby points
There surely Congress goes."
--- Dr. Edwin Wright
former US State Dept. employee and interpreter for
President Eisenhower.
Quote:
[NWO, degenerate, Zionism, fascism, genocide, Illuminati, Freemasons]
Listen to the Jewish banker, Paul Warburg:
"We will have a world government whether you like it or not.
The only question is whether that government will be achieved
by conquest or consent."
(February 17, 1950, as he testified before the US Senate).
Quote:
Israel honors its founding terrorists on its postage stamps,
like 1978's stamp honoring Abraham Stern
[Scott Standard Postage Stamp Catalogue #692],
and 1991's stamps honoring Lehi (also called "The Stern Gang",
led at one time by future Prime Minister Begin)
and Etzel (also called "The Irgun", led at one time by future
Prime Minister Shamir) [Scott #1099, 1100].
Quote:
Imagine the leader of a foreign terrorist organization
coming to the United States with the intention of raising funds
for his group. His organization has committed terrorist acts
such as bombings, assassinations, ethnic cleansing and massacres.
Now imagine that instead of being prohibited from entering the
country, he is given a heroes' welcome by his supporters,
despite the fact some noisy protesters try to spoil the fun.
Arafat, 1974?
No.
It was Menachem Begin in 1948.
"Without Deir Yassin, there would be no state of Israel."
Begin and Shamir proved that terrorism works. Israel honors
its founding terrorists on its postage stamps,
like 1978's stamp honoring Abraham Stern [Scott #692],
and 1991's stamps honoring Lehi (also called "The Stern Gang")
and Etzel (also called "The Irgun") [Scott #1099, 1100].
Being a leader of a terrorist organization did not
prevent either Begin or Shamir from becoming Israel's
Prime Minister. It looks like terrorism worked just fine
for those two.
Oh, wait, you did not condemn terrorism, you merely
stated that Palestinian terrorism will get them
nowhere. Zionist terrorism is OK, but not Palestinian
terrorism? You cannot have it both ways.
Quote:
Do you know what Jews do on the Day of Atonement,
that you think is so sacred to them? I was one of them.
This is not hearsay. I'm not here to be a rabble-rouser.
I'm here to give you facts.
When, on the Day of Atonement, you walk into a synagogue,
you stand up for the very first prayer that you recite.
It is the only prayer for which you stand.
You repeat three times a short prayer called the Kol Nidre.
In that prayer, you enter into an agreement with God Almighty
that any oath, vow, or pledge that you may make during the next
twelve months shall be null and void.
The oath shall not be an oath;
the vow shall not be a vow;
the pledge shall not be a pledge.
They shall have no force or effect.
And further, the Talmud teaches that whenever you take an oath,
vow, or pledge, you are to remember the Kol Nidre prayer
that you recited on the Day of Atonement, and you are exempted
from fulfilling them.
How much can you depend on their loyalty? You can depend upon
their loyalty as much as the Germans depended upon it in 1916.
We are going to suffer the same fate as Germany suffered,
and for the same reason.
--- Benjamin H. Freedman
[Benjamin H. Freedman was one of the most intriguing and amazing
individuals of the 20th century. Born in 1890, he was a successful
Jewish businessman of New York City at one time principal owner
of the Woodbury Soap Company. He broke with organized Jewry
after the Judeo-Communist victory of 1945, and spent the
remainder of his life and the great preponderance of his
considerable fortune, at least 2.5 million dollars, exposing the
Jewish tyranny which has enveloped the United States.]
Quote:
"Here in the United States, the Zionists and their co-religionists
have complete control of our government.
For many reasons, too many and too complex to go into here at this
time, the Zionists and their co-religionists rule these
United States as though they were the absolute monarchs
of this country.
Now you may say that is a very broad statement,
but let me show you what happened while we were all asleep..."
--- Benjamin H. Freedman
Quote:
Rabbi Yaacov Perrin said,
"One million Arabs are not worth a Jewish fingernail."
(NY Daily News, Feb. 28, 1994, p.6)."
Quote:
Rabbi Yitzhak Ginsburg declared, "We have to recognize that
Jewish blood and the blood of a goy are not the same thing."
(NY Times, June 6, 1989, p.5).
Quote:
"One drop of blood of a Jew is worth that of a thousand
Gentiles." Yitzhak Shamir, a former Prime Minister of Israel
Quote:
On Purim, Feb. 25, 1994, Israeli army officer
Baruch Goldstein, an orthodox Jew from Brooklyn,
massacred 40 Palestinian civilians, including children,
while they knelt in prayer in a mosque.
Subsequently, Israeli's have erected a statue to this -
his good work - advancing the Zionist Cause.
Goldstein was a disciple of the late Brooklyn
that his teaching that Arabs are "dogs" is derived
"from the Talmud." (CBS 60 Minutes, "Kahane").
Quote:
[Zionism, fascism, genocide, ethnic cleansing, terrorism,
war crimes, Khasars, Illuminati, NWO]
Today, the world watches as Israelis unleash state-sanctioned
terrorism against Palestinians, who are deemed to be sub-human
(Untermenschen) - not worthy of dignity, respect or legal protection
under the law.
To kill a Palestinian, to destroy his livelihood, to force him
and his family out of their homes - these are accepted,
sanctioned forms of conduct by citizens of the Zionist Reich
designed to rid Palestine of a specific group of people.
If Nazism is racist and deserving of absolute censure, then so
is Zionism, for they are both fruit of the poisonous tree of
fascism.
It cannot be considered "anti-Semitic" to acknowledge this fact.
--- Greg Felton,
Israel: A monument to anti-Semitism
Quote:
[Zionism, fascism, genocide, ethnic cleansing, terrorism,
war crimes, Khasars, Illuminati, NWO]
"The equation of Zionism with the Holocaust, though, is based
on a false presumption.
Far from being a haven for all Jews, Israel is founded by
Zionist Jews who helped the Nazis fill the gas chambers and stoke
the ovens of the death camps.
Israel would not be possible today if the World Zionist Congress
and other Zionist agencies hadn't formed common cause with
Hitler's exterminators to rid Europe of Jews.
In exchange for helping round up non-Zionist Jews, sabotage
Jewish resistance movements, and betray the trust of Jews,
Zionists secured for themselves safe passage to Palestine.
This arrangement was formalized in a number of emigration
agreements signed in 1938.
The most notorious case of Zionist collusion concerned
Dr. Rudolf Kastner Chairman of the Zionist Organization in
Hungary from 1943-45.
To secure the safe passage of 600 Zionists to Palestine,
he helped the Nazis send 800,000 Hungarian Jews to their deaths.
The Israeli Supreme Court virtually whitewashed Kastner's crimes
because to admit them would have denied Israel the moral right
to exist."
--- Greg Felton,
Israel: A monument to anti-Semitism
Quote:
"If it were not for the strong support of the
Jewish community for this war with Iraq,
we would not be doing this.
The leaders of the Jewish community are
influential enough that they could change
the direction of where this is going,
and I think they should."
"Charges of 'dual loyalty' and countercharges of
anti-Semitism have become common in the feud,
with some war opponents even asserting that
Mr. Bush's most hawkish advisers "many of them Jewish"
are putting Israel's interests ahead of those of the
United States in provoking a war with Iraq to topple
Saddam Hussein," says the Washington Times.
Quote:
"MSNBC talk-show host Chris Matthews said war supporters
in the Bush Pentagon were 'in bed' with Israeli hawks
eager to take out Saddam."
Quote:
Buchanan: "The War Party may have gotten its war," he writes.
"... In a rare moment in U.S. journalism, Tim Russert put
this question directly to Richard Perle [of PNAC]:
'Can you assure American viewers ...
that we're in this situation against Saddam Hussein
and his removal for American security interests?
And what would be the link in terms of Israel?'
Buchanan: "We charge that a cabal of polemicists and
public officials seek to ensnare our country in a series
of wars that are not in America's interests. We charge
them with colluding with Israel to ignite those wars
and destroy the Oslo Accords."
Quote:
[Zionism, fascism, genocide, ethnic cleansing, terrorism,
war crimes, Khasars, Illuminati, NWO]
"There is no other way than to transfer the Arabs from here
to the neighboring countries, to transfer all of them;
not one village, not one tribe, should be left."
--- Joseph Weitz,
the Jewish National Fund administrator
for Zionist colonization (1967),
from My Diary and Letters to the Children, Chapter III, p. 293.
"...Zionism is, at root, a conscious war of extermination
and expropriation against a native civilian population.
In the modern vernacular, Zionism is the theory and practice
of "ethnic cleansing," which the UN has defined as a war crime."
"Now, the Zionist Jews who founded Israel are another matter.
For the most part, they are not Semites, and their language
(Yiddish) is not semitic. These Ashkenazi ("German") Jews --
as opposed to the Sephardic ("Spanish") Jews -- have no
connection whatever to any of the aforementioned ancient
peoples or languages.
They are mostly East European Slavs descended from the Khazars,
a nomadic Turko-Finnic people that migrated out of the Caucasus
in the second century and came to settle, broadly speaking, in
what is now Southern Russia and Ukraine."
In A.D. 740, the khagan (ruler) of Khazaria, decided that paganism
wasn't good enough for his people and decided to adopt one of the
"heavenly" religions: Judaism, Christianity or Islam.
After a process of elimination he chose Judaism, and from that
point the Khazars adopted Judaism as the official state religion.
The history of the Khazars and their conversion is a documented,
undisputed part of Jewish history, but it is never publicly
discussed.
It is, as former U.S. State Department official Alfred M. Lilienthal
declared, "Israel's Achilles heel," for it proves that Zionists
have no claim to the land of the Biblical Hebrews."
--- Greg Felton,
Israel: A monument to anti-Semitism
Quote:
What are the facts about the Jews? (I call them Jews to you,
because they are known as "Jews". I don't call them Jews
myself. I refer to them as "so-called Jews", because I know
what they are). The eastern European Jews, who form 92 per
cent of the world's population of those people who call
themselves "Jews", were originally Khazars. They were a
warlike tribe who lived deep in the heart of Asia. And they
were so warlike that even the Asiatics drove them out of Asia
into eastern Europe. They set up a large Khazar kingdom of
800,000 square miles. At the time, Russia did not exist, nor
did many other European countries. The Khazar kingdom
was the biggest country in all Europe -- so big and so
powerful that when the other monarchs wanted to go to war,
the Khazars would lend them 40,000 soldiers. That's how big
and powerful they were.
They were phallic worshippers, which is filthy and I do not
want to go into the details of that now. But that was their
religion, as it was also the religion of many other pagans and
barbarians elsewhere in the world. The Khazar king became
so disgusted with the degeneracy of his kingdom that he
decided to adopt a so-called monotheistic faith -- either
Christianity, Islam, or what is known today as Judaism,
which is really Talmudism. By spinning a top, and calling out
"eeny, meeny, miney, moe," he picked out so-called Judaism.
And that became the state religion. He sent down to the
Talmudic schools of Pumbedita and Sura and brought up
thousands of rabbis, and opened up synagogues and
schools, and his people became what we call "Jews".
There wasn't one of them who had an ancestor who ever put
a toe in the Holy Land. Not only in Old Testament history, but
back to the beginning of time. Not one of them! And yet they
come to the Christians and ask us to support their armed
insurrections in Palestine by saying, "You want to help
repatriate God's Chosen People to their Promised Land, their
ancestral home, don't you? It's your Christian duty. We gave
you one of our boys as your Lord and Savior. You now go to
church on Sunday, and you kneel and you worship a Jew,
and we're Jews."
But they are pagan Khazars who were converted just the
same as the Irish were converted. It is as ridiculous to call
them "people of the Holy Land," as it would be to call the 54
million Chinese Moslems "Arabs." Mohammed only died in
620 A.D., and since then 54 million Chinese have accepted
Islam as their religious belief. Now imagine, in China, 2,000
miles away from Arabia, from Mecca and Mohammed's
birthplace. Imagine if the 54 million Chinese decided to call
themselves "Arabs." You would say they were lunatics.
Anyone who believes that those 54 million Chinese are Arabs
must be crazy. All they did was adopt as a religious faith a
belief that had its origin in Mecca, in Arabia. The same as the
Irish. When the Irish became Christians, nobody dumped
them in the ocean and imported to the Holy Land a new crop
of inhabitants. They hadn't become a different people. They
were the same people, but they had accepted Christianity as
a religious faith.
These Khazars, these pagans, these Asiatics, these
Turko-Finns, were a Mongoloid race who were forced out of
Asia into eastern Europe. Because their king took the
Talmudic faith, they had no choice in the matter. Just the
same as in Spain: If the king was Catholic, everybody had to
be a Catholic. If not, you had to get out of Spain. So the
Khazars became what we call today "Jews".
--- Benjamin H. Freedman
Quote:
[Zionism, fascism, genocide, ethnic cleansing, terrorism,
war crimes, Khasars, Illuminati, NWO]
"The only good Arab is a dead Arab...When we have settled the
land, all the Arabs will be able to do about it will be to
scurry around like drugged cockroaches in a bottle,"
--- Rafael Eitan,
Likud leader of the Tsomet faction (1981)
in Noam Chomsky, Fateful Triangle, pp 129, 130.
"...Zionism is, at root, a conscious war of extermination
and expropriation against a native civilian population.
In the modern vernacular, Zionism is the theory and practice
of "ethnic cleansing," which the UN has defined as a war crime."
"Now, the Zionist Jews who founded Israel are another matter.
For the most part, they are not Semites, and their language
(Yiddish) is not semitic. These Ashkenazi ("German") Jews --
as opposed to the Sephardic ("Spanish") Jews -- have no
connection whatever to any of the aforementioned ancient
peoples or languages.
They are mostly East European Slavs descended from the Khazars,
a nomadic Turko-Finnic people that migrated out of the Caucasus
in the second century and came to settle, broadly speaking, in
what is now Southern Russia and Ukraine."
--- Greg Felton,
Israel: A monument to anti-Semitism
Quote:
[Zionism, fascism, genocide, ethnic cleansing, terrorism,
war crimes, Khasars, Illuminati, NWO]
"It is forbidden to be merciful to them, you must give them
missiles, with relish - annihilate them. Evil ones, damnable ones.
May the Holy Name visit retribution on the Arabs' heads, and
cause their seed to be lost, and annihilate them, and cause
them to be vanquished and cause them to be cast from the
world,"
--- Rabbi Ovadia Yosef,
founder and spiritual leader of the Shas party,
Ma'ariv, April, 9, 2001.
Quote:
[Zionism, fascism, genocide, ethnic cleansing, terrorism,
war crimes, Khasars, Illuminati, NWO]
That the Jews knew they were committing a criminal act is shown
by a eulogy Foreign Minister Moshe Dayan delivered for a Jew
killed by Arabs on the Gaza border in 1956:
"Let us not heap accusations on the murderers," he said.
"How can we complain about their deep hatred for us?
For eight years they have been sitting in the Gaza refugee camps,
and before their very eyes, we are possessing the land and the
villages where they and their ancestors have lived.
We are the generation of colonizers, and without the steel
helmet and the gun barrel we cannot plant a tree and build a home."
In April 1969, Dayan told the Jewish newspaper Ha'aretz:
"There is not one single place built in this country that
did not have a former Arab population."
"Clearly, the equation of Zionism with racism is founded on solid
historical evidence, and the charge of anti-Semitism is absurd."
--- Greg Felton,
Israel: A monument to anti-Semitism
Quote:
[NWO, New World Order, Lucifer, Satan, 666, Illuminati, Zionism,
fascism, totalitarian, dictator]
"Who cares what Goyim say? What matters is what the Jews do!"
--- David Ben Gurion,
the first ruler of the Jewish state
Quote:
[Zionism, nazi, racism, fascism, Illuminati, Freemason, NWO]
"The difference between a Jewish soul and souls of non-Jews
is greater and deeper than the difference between a human
soul and the souls of cattle"
--- Quotes by Jewish Rabbis
Quote:
[Zionism, fascism, genocide, ethnic cleansing, terrorism,
war crimes, Khasars, Illuminati, NWO]
"On Nov. 10, 2000, the American-Jewish editor in chief of the Kansas
City Jewish Chronicle, Debbie Ducro, published an impassioned 1,150
word article from another Jew decrying Israeli atrocities against the
Palestinians. The writer, Judith Stone, even used the term Israeli
Shoah, to draw allusion to Hitler's genocidal war against the Jews.
Ducro was fired on Nov. 11."
--- Greg Felton,
Israel: A monument to anti-Semitism
Quote:
[NWO, New World Order, Lucifer, Satan, 666, Illuminati, Zionism,
fascism, totalitarian, dictator]
"Each Jewish victim is worth in the sight of God a thousand goyim".
--- The Protocols of the Elders of Zion,
The master plan of Illuminati NWO
Quote:
In San Francisco, Rabbi Michael Lerner has endured death threats
and vicious harassment from right-wing Jews because he gives voice
to Palestinian views on his website and in the magazine Tikkun.
"An Israeli web site called 'self-hate' has identified me as one
of the five enemies of the Jewish people, and printed my home
address and driving instructions on how to get to my home,"
wrote Lerner in a May 13 e-mail.
"We reported this to the police, the Israeli consulate, and to the
Anti Defamation league. The ADL said it wasn't their concern because
this was not a 'hate crime."
Here's a typical letter that Lerner said Tikkun received: "You subhuman
leftist animals. You should all be exterminated. You are the lowest of
the low life" (David Raziel in Hebron).
If anyone other than a Jew had written this, you can be sure that
the ADL and any other Jewish lobby groups would have gone into full
attack mode.
In other words, when non-Jews slander and threaten Jews, it's
called "anti-Semitism" and "hate crime'; when Zionists slander
and threaten Jews, nobody is supposed to notice.
--- Greg Felton,
Israel: A monument to anti-Semitism
Quote:
[Zionism, Jew, NWO, Iraq, Saddam, terror, genocide, Illuminati,
war, military, biological]
From the PNAC master plan,
'REBUILDING AMERICA'S DEFENSES
Strategy, Forces and Resources For a New Century':
"advanced forms of biological warfare
that can "target" specific genotypes may
transform biological warfare from the realm
of terror to a politically useful tool."
"the process of transformation, even if it brings
revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one,
absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event
- like a new Pearl Harbor.
[Is that where this idea of 911 events came from,
by ANY chance?]
Project for New American Century (PNAC)
http://www.newamericancentury.org
Quote:
From Jewish "scriptures".
Baba Kama 113a: "A Jew may lie and perjure to condemn a Christian.
b. "The name of God is not profaned when lying to Christians."
Quote:
From Jewish "scriptures".
Hikkoth Akum X 1: "Do not save Christians in danger of death."
Quote:
From Jewish "scriptures".
Kohar I 160a: "Jews must always try to deceive Christians."
Quote:
From Jewish "scriptures".
Zohar I 25b: "Those who do good to Christians will never rise
from the dead."
Quote:
From Jewish "scriptures".
Zohar II 43a: "Extermination of Christians is a necessary sacrifice."
Zohar II 64b: "The Christian birthrate must be materially diminished."
Quote:
From Jewish "scriptures".
Moed Kattan 17a: If a Jew is tempted to do evil he should go to a
city where he is not known and do the evil there.
Quote:
From Jewish "scriptures".
Erubin 21b. Whosoever disobeys the rabbis deserves death and will be
punished by being boiled in hot excrement in hell.
Hitting a Jew is the same as hitting God
Quote:
From Jewish "scriptures".
Sanhedrin 58b. If a heathen (gentile) hits a Jew, the gentile must
be killed.
Quote:
From Jewish "scriptures".
Sanhedrin 57a . A Jew need not pay a gentile the wages owed him
for work.
Quote:
From Jewish "scriptures".
Sanhedrin 57a . When a Jew murders a gentile, there will be no
death penalty. What a Jew steals from a gentile he may keep.
Quote:
From Jewish "scriptures".
Baba Kamma 37b. The gentiles are outside the protection of the
law and God has "exposed their money to Israel."
Quote:
From Jewish "scriptures".
Baba Kamma 113a. Jews may use lies ("subterfuges") to circumvent
a Gentile.
Yebamoth 98a. All gentile children are animals.
Quote:
From Jewish "scriptures".
Abodah Zarah 36b. Gentile girls are in a state of niddah (filth)
from birth.
Quote:
From Jewish "scriptures".
Abodah Zarah 22a-22b . Gentiles prefer sex with cows.
Quote:
From Jewish "scriptures".
Yebamoth 63a. Declares that agriculture is the lowest of
occupations.
Yebamoth 59b. A woman who had intercourse with a beast is
eligible to marry a Jewish priest. A woman who has sex with
a demon is also eligible to marry a Jewish priest.
Hagigah 27a. States that no rabbi can ever go to hell.
Quote:
From Jewish "scriptures".
Baba Mezia 59b. A rabbi debates God and defeats Him.
God admits the rabbi won the debate.
Quote:
From Jewish "scriptures".
Gittin 70a. On coming from a privy (outdoor toilet) a man
should not have sexual intercourse till he has waited
long enough to walk half a mile, because the demon of the privy
is with him for that time; if he does, his children will be
epileptic.
Quote:
From Jewish "scriptures".
Menahoth 43b-44a. A Jewish man is obligated to say the following
prayer every day: "Thank you God for not making me a gentile,
a woman or a slave."
Rabbi Meir Kahane, told CBS News that his teaching that Arabs
are "dogs" is derived "from the Talmud." (CBS 60 Minutes, "Kahane").
University of Jerusalem Prof. Ehud Sprinzak described Kahane
and Goldstein's philosophy: "They believe it's God's will that
they commit violence against goyim," a Hebrew term for non-Jews.
(NY Daily News, Feb. 26, 1994, p. 5).
Quote:
From Jewish "scriptures".
Rabbi Yitzhak Ginsburg declared, "We have to recognize that
Jewish blood and the blood of a goy are not the same thing."
(NY Times, June 6, 1989, p.5).
Quote:
From Jewish "scriptures".
Rabbi Yaacov Perrin said, "One million Arabs are not worth
a Jewish fingernail." (NY Daily News, Feb. 28, 1994, p.6).
Quote:
From Jewish "scriptures".
Toldoth Jeschu: Says Judas and Jesus engaged in a quarrel
with human excrement.
Quote:
From Jewish "scriptures".
Kelhubath (11a-11b): "When a grown-up man has had intercourse with
a little girl...
It means this: When a GROWN UP MAN HAS INTERCOURSE WITH A LITTLE
GIRL IT IS NOTHING, for when the girl is less than this THREE YEARS
OLD it is as if one puts the finger into the eye [Again See Footnote]
tears come to the eye again and again, SO DOES VIRGINITY COME BACK
TO THE LITTLE GIRL THREE YEARS OLD."
---
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Lew
>
Plonk.
--
Lew
Alexandr Nevsky
<com.lewscanon@lew> wrote:
>Alexandr Nevsky wrote:
>Plonk.
Well, mr. sick pervert. You have claimed to filter out
all the posts from this domain.
So...
How were you able to read it?
You see how perverted you are?
What are you doing on this beautiful planet Earth?
Trying to prove you are something?
And not only something, but you are about the only entity
that counts at the end?
:--}
And the end is near, you see, mr. donkey ass?