Regarding mind.sourceforge.net/progman.html
Michael Westmore
Hello,
We are creating an IT Directory -
http://www.the-it-resource.com/ -
and we would like to include your website http://mind.sourceforge.net/progman.html
to our Artificial Intelligence category -
http://www.the-it-resource.com/Artificial-Intelligence/.
Please submit your site's information here:
http://www.the-it-resource.com/Artificial-Intelligence/form.html.
A reciprocal link from your site would be appreciated.
This is the linking code :
<a href="http://www.the-it-resource.com/Artificial-Intelligence/">Artificial Intelligence resources</a>
- directory of Artificial Intelligence related websites.<br>
Thank you,
Michael Westmore,
webm...@the-it-resource.com.
Coos Haak
> Hello,
> We are creating an IT Directory at http://www.the-it-resource.com and we would like to include
> your website http://mind.sourceforge.net/progman.html to our Artificial Intelligence category - http://www.the-it-resource.com/Artificial-Intelligence/.
> Please submit your site's information here: http://www.the-it-resource.com/Artificial-Intelligence/form.html.
>
> A reciprocal link from your site would be appreciated. This is the linking code :
> <a href="http://www.the-it-resource.com/Artificial-Intelligence/">Artificial Intelligence resources</a> -
> directory of Artificial Intelligence related websites.
>
> Thank you,
> Michael Westmore,
> webm...@the-it-resource.com.
>::text version::
Don't, read this: http://www.nothingisreal.com/mentifex_faq.html
-- Coos
Arthur T. Murray
>
> Hello,
> We are creating an IT Directory at
> http://www.the-it-resource.com and we would like to include> http://www.the-it-resource.com/Artificial-Intelligence/ [...]
ATM:
It is a great honor to submit to you the following data:
URL -- http://mind.sourceforge.net/jsaimind.html
Title: Mind for MS IE 5 - the first true AI on the Web
Description: A living, thinking artificial Mind written in
client-side JavaScript, as described in the AI4U textbook
of artificial intelligence, and so complex in nature that
it only works optimally in version five of the Microsoft
Internet Explorer Web browser.
Section: Applications
Email (for confirmation): ment...@scn.org
URL of your reciprocal link page: http://mind.sourceforge.net/progman.html
Respectfully submitted,
Arthur T. Murray
7
> "Michael Westmore" posted by mail-to-Usenet on Wed, 4 Aug 2004:
>>
>> Hello,
>> We are creating an IT Directory at
>> http://www.the-it-resource.com and we would like to include
>> your website http://mind.sourceforge.net/progman.html
>> to our Artificial Intelligence category -
>> http://www.the-it-resource.com/Artificial-Intelligence/ [...]
>
> ATM:
> It is a great honor to submit to you the following data:
>
> URL -- http://mind.sourceforge.net/jsaimind.html
>
> Title: Mind for MS IE 5 - the first true AI on the Web
>
> Description: A living, thinking artificial Mind written in
> client-side JavaScript, as described in the AI4U textbook
> of artificial intelligence, and so complex in nature that
> it only works optimally in version five of the Microsoft
> Internet Explorer Web browser.
I'm sorry Murray, but you are taking the piss here!
Why can't your "thinking artificial Mind" think itself
out of a simple browser vendor lock in problem? and think itself
into complying with minimal standards?
Is it because it can't think?
Could it even be described as a sock puppet program?
Arthur T. Murray
> Why can't your "thinking artificial Mind" think itself
> out of a simple browser vendor lock in problem?
> and think itself into complying with minimal standards?
> Is it because it can't think? [...]
Quoting from an e-mail that I just sent to a Netizen...
ATM:
One of the very biggest problems with my AI software
for execution on von-Neumann serial machines is that
what we are trying to do (emulate the human brain) really
requires massively parallel ("maspar" processing. I cut
a lot of corners in trying to "fake it" w.r.t. maspar AI.
For instance, when subfunctions of my Think() module
search back in time for previous instances of concepts
which will go into the generation of a sentence of thought,
they generally use the most recent single previous instance --
whereas a better imitation of the brain-mind might let
multiple recent (or even long-term) associations
compete for inclusion in a truly maspar phenomenon.
In fact, maybe I should Web-publish a list of the
shortcuts that I am taking as I attempt to rush a
proof-of-concept AI out onto the marketplace of ideas.
The list of Mentifex AI-or-bust shortcuts would include:
- faking maspar with serial-execution software;
- pretending that regular English is phonemic English;
- treating short-term-memory as if it were long-term;
- hardcoding initial English vocabulary and simple syntax;
- using Rejuvenate() instead of a really large memory;
- limiting the sensorium to audition as a single sense;
- searching for associations instead of a direct access;
- and various other shortcuts perhaps yet to be recalled.
However, I feel quite strongly that the AI problem-space
is so huge that "the first true artificial intelligence"
has to take the risk of all these potentially show-stopper
shortcuts or else AI will not get off the ground for decades.
[...]
One thing that intrigues me about Python is the possibility
of using Python to make what I suppose you might indeed call
"agents," but not in the sense of an AI that will shop for you
or find the best airfares for you and then report back to you.
I would like to branch out into maybe AI in Perl (or Python)
that resides steadfastly on a server with no intention of migrating,
and AI in Python or Java or Telescript or whatever other language
will permit the entire life-history AI to "pull up stakes" and
migrate (in true metempsychosis) from site to site on the 'Net.
http://sourceforge.net/projects/tre is a Python AI project
where I noticed a while back that the Python programmer had
written a "home-made HTTP daemon" in Python. I would like
my AI to have its own HTTP daemon so that the AI will have
the ability to learn by reading all available Web pages.
Then I want the AI to be able to transfer itself to other sites,
or to enter and control a robot where AI access is permitted.
Thanking everyone for their patience,
Arthur T. Murray
7
> 7 <website_...@www.ecu.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> Why can't your "thinking artificial Mind" think itself
>> out of a simple browser vendor lock in problem?
>> and think itself into complying with minimal standards?
>> Is it because it can't think? [...]
>
> Quoting from an e-mail that I just sent to a Netizen...
>
> ATM:
> One of the very biggest problems with my AI software
> for execution on von-Neumann serial machines is that
> what we are trying to do (emulate the human brain) really
> requires massively parallel ("maspar" processing. I cut
> a lot of corners in trying to "fake it" w.r.t. maspar AI.
This is not a problem!
Look the computer you are using, the browser
and everything under the sun is a serial
computer and they appear to do many things
in parallel by putting things into arrays
and switching between them.
Why don't you try something simple
like that.
> For instance, when subfunctions of my Think() module
> search back in time for previous instances of concepts
> which will go into the generation of a sentence of thought,
> they generally use the most recent single previous instance --
> whereas a better imitation of the brain-mind might let
> multiple recent (or even long-term) associations
> compete for inclusion in a truly maspar phenomenon.
>
> In fact, maybe I should Web-publish a list of the
> shortcuts that I am taking as I attempt to rush a
> proof-of-concept AI out onto the marketplace of ideas.
Oh dear!
Just do something useful first and get it
working before rushing out.
> The list of Mentifex AI-or-bust shortcuts would include:
> - faking maspar with serial-execution software;
> - pretending that regular English is phonemic English;
> - treating short-term-memory as if it were long-term;
> - hardcoding initial English vocabulary and simple syntax;
> - using Rejuvenate() instead of a really large memory;
> - limiting the sensorium to audition as a single sense;
> - searching for associations instead of a direct access;
> - and various other shortcuts perhaps yet to be recalled.
These are all tasks done serially before.
Just do one at a time, put the data into an array
and switch between tasks.
> However, I feel quite strongly that the AI problem-space
> is so huge that "the first true artificial intelligence"
> has to take the risk of all these potentially show-stopper
> shortcuts or else AI will not get off the ground for decades.
Oh now you are really beginning to understand!
It is huge is it?
What do you others have been doing all this time then?
> [...]
>
> One thing that intrigues me about Python is the possibility
> of using Python to make what I suppose you might indeed call
> "agents," but not in the sense of an AI that will shop for you
> or find the best airfares for you and then report back to you.
Python is excellent - but if you switch now,
you lose everything you did before.
> I would like to branch out into maybe AI in Perl (or Python)
> that resides steadfastly on a server with no intention of migrating,
> and AI in Python or Java or Telescript or whatever other language
> will permit the entire life-history AI to "pull up stakes" and
> migrate (in true metempsychosis) from site to site on the 'Net.
Don't say I didn't warn you.
> http://sourceforge.net/projects/tre is a Python AI project
> where I noticed a while back that the Python programmer had
> written a "home-made HTTP daemon" in Python. I would like
> my AI to have its own HTTP daemon so that the AI will have
> the ability to learn by reading all available Web pages.
>
> Then I want the AI to be able to transfer itself to other sites,
> or to enter and control a robot where AI access is permitted.
We can wait for that day.
Blueeyedpop
I like that!
"7" <website_...@www.ecu.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:fMlQc.51700$a8....@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
Don Golding
challenge, and once released into the world, things will never be the same
again.
Go out a see "Irobot" for a glimpse of the potential life changing aspects
of AI.
I have talked with the top AI researchers working in DARPA funded AI
research programs, and it is proving to be a very difficult problem to solve
for the best minds in computer science. Many people are working on AI today
trying to make computers which think for themselves with glacial slow
progress. Researchers are still trying to figure out what all of the
algorithms of AI are, programming consciousness is still far into the
future.
I haven't been able to get his software to work either, we may need some
couching from Arthur on how to use the program effectively. I appreciate
the fact that he his willing to share the code with us so we can experiment
with it ourselves. He may not have all of the answers, but I do believe we
should all show him some respect for trying to pioneer such a difficult
subject.
I developed a three tried AI operating system for robotics myself, and it
took many years of thinking about it, discussing it with others, and
sometimes downright arguments with others working towards the same goal but
with different opinions on what that is. It took a considerable amount of
"thinking outside the box" in order to make it work in the first place.
After I originally got it working, then I had to learn entirely new
programming techniques because of it's parallel nature. I was the creator
and had to learn how to use it! AI is that type of problem.
Think different, that's how you invent things, and don't belittle other
people in the middle of the invention process because they don't have all of
the answers yet. What do you think people said about Thomas Edison after
the 800th failure? What if he "listened" to them and gave up? Be cool...
Arthur, why don't you give us some specific examples we can use with your
software so we can test it ourselves?
Thanks for sharing...
Don
"7" <website_...@www.ecu.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:DoqQc.86696$28.1...@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
clvrmnky
> I wish people would give Arthur a break, AI is mankind's greatest technical
> challenge, and once released into the world, things will never be the same
> again.
>
> Go out a see "Irobot" for a glimpse of the potential life changing aspects
> of AI.
>
[...]
You are assuming that a.) AI research will yield concrete results (i.e.,
thinking robots that live among us) while humans exist on this planet
and b.) artistic representations today of an essentially unknown
discipline will have anything at all to do with what we may discover in
the future.
Neither of these things are at all certain.
Given that Hollywood is recently unable to make a film about math,
aerospace or climate change without totally obscuring science with
meaningless hyperbole, I'm not sure we can depend on a movie like "I,
Robot" to indicate any sort of reality at all.
I submit is is just a movie, and does necessarily portray a reasonable
view of our future, with or without great discoveries in AI.
Rich Walker
[snip]
> Given that Hollywood is recently unable to make a film about math, aerospace or climate change
> without totally obscuring science with meaningless hyperbole, I'm not sure we can depend on a movie
> like "I, Robot" to indicate any sort of reality at all.
Well, the robots appear to be using Air Muscles for actuation, and the
designs they are using look almost identical to the ones on our current
generations of Dextrous Hands, so they *are* capable of getting
something right...
> I submit is is just a movie, and does necessarily portray a reasonable
> view of our future, with or without great discoveries in AI.
Let alone a reasonable view of an Asimov story :->
cheers, Rich.
--
rich walker | Shadow Robot Company | r...@shadow.org.uk
technical director 251 Liverpool Road |
need a Hand? London N1 1LX | +UK 20 7700 2487
www.shadow.org.uk/products/newhand.shtml
Grant Wagner
> Arthur T. Murray wrote:
>
> > 7 <website_...@www.ecu.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> >> Why can't your "thinking artificial Mind" think itself
> >> out of a simple browser vendor lock in problem?
> >> and think itself into complying with minimal standards?
> >> Is it because it can't think? [...]
> >
> > Quoting from an e-mail that I just sent to a Netizen...
> >
> > ATM:
> > One of the very biggest problems with my AI software
> > for execution on von-Neumann serial machines is that
> > what we are trying to do (emulate the human brain) really
> > requires massively parallel ("maspar" processing. I cut
> > a lot of corners in trying to "fake it" w.r.t. maspar AI.
>
> This is not a problem!
> Look the computer you are using, the browser
> and everything under the sun is a serial
> computer and they appear to do many things
> in parallel by putting things into arrays
> and switching between them.
>
> Why don't you try something simple
> like that.
<url: http://www.nothingisreal.com/mentifex_faq.html />
Please remove comp.lang.javascript from future followups.
Thanks.
--
Grant Wagner <gwa...@agricoreunited.com>
comp.lang.javascript FAQ - http://jibbering.com/faq
Chris S.
> I wish people would give Arthur a break, AI is mankind's greatest technical
> challenge, and once released into the world, things will never be the same
> again.
I don't think the problem is so much that he's trying to solve AI, but
in how he's going about it. He makes ambitions, lofty claims backed up
by vague, ambiguous explanations. The field of artificial intelligence
is so complicated and daunting, that I respect anyone attempting to
solve its mysteries. However, the last thing we need is another
charlatan proclaiming a non-existent solution. It wastes everyone's time
and dilutes the field.
Don Golding
in-appropriate post in my opinion.
He needs to state his theories, define his goals and milestones, and tell us
what milestones he has achieved to date.
When I try his online software, either I don't know how to use it correctly
or it still needs work. I would like to see a script from him which shows
the capability of his current software. I don't expect it to be finished,
be we do need some glimmer of hope from his demo.
Don
"Chris S." <chr...@NOSPAMudel.edu> wrote in message
news:3PWQc.120$Iv.62@trndny03...
7
> I do agree with what you are saying, I was responding to 7, that was an
> in-appropriate post in my opinion.
>
> He needs to state his theories, define his goals and milestones, and tell
> us what milestones he has achieved to date.
>
> When I try his online software, either I don't know how to use it
> correctly
> or it still needs work. I would like to see a script from him which shows
> the capability of his current software. I don't expect it to be finished,
> be we do need some glimmer of hope from his demo.
>
> Don
You must be kidding!
Sock puppet AI programs are dime a dozen.
Don Golding
My focus has been intelligent machine control which is the lower level
functions of AI. This is the nervous system which the higher level AI
programs will run on top of.
Are you saying it is more like Eliza, which is more a software trick, than a
good algorithmic foundation on how the higher levels of intelligence may be
operating?
I haven't spent a lot of time on high level AI, but it is something we will
start looking at within the next 6 months to a year.
Thanks,
Don
"7" <website_...@www.ecu.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:m1JRc.106248$28.6...@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
7
> Can you go into more detail on your thoughts?
>
> My focus has been intelligent machine control which is the lower level
> functions of AI. This is the nervous system which the higher level AI
> programs will run on top of.
>
> Are you saying it is more like Eliza, which is more a software trick, than
> a good algorithmic foundation on how the higher levels of intelligence may
> be operating?
>
> I haven't spent a lot of time on high level AI, but it is something we
> will start looking at within the next 6 months to a year.
>
> Thanks,
> Don
Basically anyone can make a sock puppet program.
Mastery of the hand up the rear end
hasn't produced anything that works yet.