Path: g2news1.google.com!postnews.google.com!l26g2000yqd.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail From: John Passaniti Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth Subject: Re: New Forth Website Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 16:21:00 -0800 (PST) Organization: http://groups.google.com Lines: 65 Message-ID: <30ff03bd-d2cc-4cf3-8570-bdef2689057c@l26g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> References: <4fcd0237-e217-42bc-85e4-370bbf272ba2@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> <43f938fe-7cb2-4e15-84dd-b2596206c91e@s25g2000prd.googlegroups.com> <28fc0612-457d-4d04-be9f-e34975787cea@f15g2000yqe.googlegroups.com> <753dd863-5bfe-45e2-983b-775b7200b9f5@f17g2000prh.googlegroups.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 67.247.89.94 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: posting.google.com 1265847660 15682 127.0.0.1 (11 Feb 2010 00:21:00 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 00:21:00 +0000 (UTC) Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Injection-Info: l26g2000yqd.googlegroups.com; posting-host=67.247.89.94; posting-account=nbtbgwoAAAAqan9elVFI3JkFy_71si4F User-Agent: G2/1.0 X-HTTP-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9.0.17) Gecko/2010010604 Ubuntu/8.10 (intrepid) Firefox/3.0.17,gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe) On Feb 10, 6:12=A0pm, Hugh Aguilar wrote: > As a rule, I never respond to Passaniti posts No, actually, you do so all the time. You can't help yourself. > --- Passaniti has been > on my twit list ever since he said that my symtab program "sucks." Yes. And people are free to go back to that discussion and judge for themselves. I'm delighted that you have had past professional experience. I'm not sure how your professional past necessarily relates to your current hobbyist efforts. > In my work experience, I have found that there are often coworkers who > seem to never actually write any code, but who want to endlessly hold > meetings discussing specifications and design. Forth is actually all > about bottom-up programming, and this worthy idea has now been adopted > by the Agile movement, but these folks seem to be stuck on the > Waterfall paradigm in which everything has to be figured out in minute > detail before a single line of code can be written. Umm, no. I'm firmly in the agile camp and have years of experience that tells me that waterfall development methodologies are almost universally the worst way to create software. Agile methodologies don't get rid of requirements-- they take the form of "user stories", they don't throw away specifications and design; they do so incrementally. Nothing I wrote suggested it's "big design up-front." What I wrote is that coding is just one part of creating software. > These people often > use the word "team" as a verb, and they believe that they are > important team members. They also believe that programming is a purely > mechanical task devoid of any creative aspect. Any programming that > they do, which isn't much, will rely entirely upon cut-and-paste of > existing source-code. They never write code from scratch, although > they are quick to criticize other people's code for being > "unidiomatic," which essentially means that they can't figure out how > it works. I call these people "pilot fish." Nice rant. Too bad it doesn't have much to do with what I wrote. > There is a place in the world for people with Passaniti's level of > programming ability. Considering you don't know me and considering you have no idea about my professional experience or practices, others are free to judge your ability to cite my "level of programming ability." > For any further discussion of computer programming, I ask that > programmers move over towww.forthwiki.comand start threads in those > forums. Note that I define the term "programmers" as: people who write > programs. For the most part, I have stopped posting messages on C.L.F. > --- if you want to respond to any of my posts, or discuss Forth > programming, you will have to move over to Alfred's site. It is a > moderated site, which means that trolls will just get their posts > deleted. You have to focus on Forth programming. Have any of you ever > tried that? Actually, comp.lang.forth is usually all about programming. Your problem is that your narrowly define "programming" as coding. The rest of us-- again, those of us who make a living writing software-- know that there are lots of other aspects to software development.