There are myriads of posts mentioning Robots, but what about FIRST?

[visua...@rocketmail.com]

Forth is the ideal language for Robots, but it is not used at FIRST.

There are thousands of high school students participating at FIRST competitions, and NI is dominating the Robot control with LabView, C++ and Java:

FIRST and NI Announce New Robot Controller: Smaller, Faster, Super Rugged

http://spectrum.ieee.org/automaton/robotics/robotics-hardware/first-robotics-competition-national-instruments-athena-robot-controller

What about a FIRST FORTH team?

[lynx]

If FIRST has an agreement with NI to supply the software and hardware at
a significant discount to enrolled teams--and especially if teams are
required to use the NI device as the "core" of the robot with the
included software--then it is a moot issue. But I don't know how much
of this is true. Certainly it seems the expectation for other FIRST
programs (if not with FRC) is that participants are expected to work
from the appropriate kit they issue for the targeted age group (e.g.,
LEGO Mindstorms for students in primary school).

More important than any of the technical aspects, the FRC program seems
to draw largely upon the availability of volunteer technical "mentors"
(e.g., professional programmers and engineers) to advise the students
how to build a working robot. Are there Forthers out there who are
ready to volunteer a huge amount of their time and expertise to assist
students with building a robot? Probably. But they are unquestionably
in the minority. The generic tools they package with robot kit makes
the program accessible to a much larger pool of potential mentors. In
my view, getting hung up on language choice misses the point of the
FIRST program, although Forth would undoubtedly be an excellent option
for students learning how to program a robot.

[visua...@rocketmail.com]

On Tuesday, May 14, 2013 3:30:56 PM UTC-4, lynx wrote:
> In my view, getting hung up on language choice misses the point
> of the FIRST program, although Forth would undoubtedly be an
> excellent option for students learning how to program a robot.

It's a pity, but the FIRST program hangs up on a language choice and therefore misses the point, to use your words. The FIRST program hangs up on C++, Java, and LabView!

Let's see it this way:

Forth for robotics would be a real enrichment for the FIRST program - and for the Forth community.

> Are there Forthers out there who are ready to volunteer a huge amount
> of their time and expertise to assist students with building a robot?
> Probably. But they are unquestionably in the minority.

Let's see it this way:

For a startup FIRST group one mentor would be enough.

I tried to attend the local FIRST group here which has won several first places at St. Louis a few weeks ago, but it looked like a closed shop, new mentors not welcome.

If we really like to promote Forth in education, we should start a FIRST Forth Task Force. Together we can get it done.

My impression is that a lot of educating material is needed - not another tutorial how to build your own Forth, but educational technical applications how to apply Forth to special tasks, exposing an easy readable Forth code which is not cryptic.

C is cryptic - C programmers don't recognize this, because they automatically decrypt it when reading. But students who never programmed before recognize that C is cryptic and Forth is readable, nearly like plain text - if it is done well. This is a huge advantage for Forth, especially in robotics!

[visua...@rocketmail.com]

On Tuesday, May 14, 2013 3:30:56 PM UTC-4, lynx wrote:

> If FIRST has an agreement with NI to supply the software and hardware
> at a significant discount to enrolled teams--and especially if teams
> are required to use the NI device as the "core" of the robot with the
> included software--then it is a moot issue.

The 4H-Robotics Glossary says:
"Program:
a set of instructions for a particular task, written in a language , or source code, that the computer can read
...
Source code:
programming language used in a computer program, such as C, C++, Pascal, python, etc."
Source: www.4-h.org/Robotics/Resources/Documents/RoboticsGlossary.dwn

Obviously it is enough that a computer can read this language.
Forth programs can be read by computers and by humans.

The Robotics Platforms says:
"The modules in this track can be used with a variety of commercial kits, including NXT, TETRIX, CEENBoT, and Vex."
http://www.4-h.org/resource-library/curriculum/4-h-robotics/robotics-platforms/

That means - a Forth kit is missing!

More information:
http://www.4-h.org/youth-development-programs/4-h-science-programs/engineering-technology/4-h-robotics-program/