Reading a review on Windows8 tells me that Microsoft now has divided the MS-Computerworld into two parts: Windows8 for the Consumer-World and Windows7 for the Professionals,
and to make it worse, the Professionals have to deal with two types of hardware: the Intel-line and the ARM - that means different assembler code, or no assembler code any more.
Windows8 is not suited for Professionals until there is a Windows7-App or WindowsXP-App available, because only two Apps can be open at the same time.
The era of windows, where you could open as many windows as you like, is over with Windows8. That's why I wrote Windows8 is for Consumers only.
May be you get multiple windows back if you buy and install a bunch of touch screen monitors.
Interesting is that traditional Windows programs may run, but in case of a crash Windows8 recovers only Windows8 apps - all other apps have to be reinstalled manually. A second option wipes everything off, including your personal settings, and you get a fresh Windows8 again as it was delivered from factory.
May be there is a Windows8 upgrade soon.
It's strange that people don't recognize that Windows8 isn't good for windows anymore.
I can see why MS wanted to do this, with the constant bombardment of malware against Windows systems. I see it as being akin to the launch of New Coke back in the 80s.
On Friday, November 2, 2012 11:41:12 AM UTC-4, visua...@rocketmail.com wrote:
> Reading a review on Windows8 tells me that Microsoft now has divided the MS-Computerworld into two parts: Windows8 for the Consumer-World and Windows7 for the Professionals...
Today I read another article on Windows 8 - there it says:
"Windows 8 supports every major and most minor programming languages"
We'll see
"The big challenge is that users are likely to have need to use more than one platform."
Refresh and Reset
... The refresh option is especially useful when you find your PC acting slow or buggy. In a one-click or one-tap move, you can refresh the PC without changing any of your files, Windows Store apps, or personalization settings. ... you will lose any desktop programs since those are not synced with your Windows Account. Reset, on the other hand, is great for when you want to hand off your old PC to a new owner. If you want to make sure that everything is wiped, this is your go-to button. No more having to delete individual files or go through manufacturer-specific programs to figure it out.
And there are a lot of comments, like this one:
As a life-long Mac user, I find Window's new direction intriguing. They're shaking things up, while at this point, both OSX and iOS are feeling a bit staid...
> Refresh and Reset
> ... The refresh option is especially useful when you find your PC acting > slow or buggy. In a one-click or one-tap move, you can refresh the PC > without changing any of your files, Windows Store apps, or personalization
> settings.
> ... you will lose any desktop programs since those are not synced with > your Windows Account.
Why can't they just write an OS which works correctly most if not all of the time? Could it be that the very idea of garbage collection is fundamentally flawed?
On Monday, November 12, 2012 8:15:00 AM UTC-7, Jason Damisch wrote:
> Why can't they just write an OS which works correctly most if not all of the time? Could it be that the very idea of garbage collection is fundamentally flawed?
Google "software decay". Microsoft's rush to market saddled millions of Windows programmers with a highly complexified API that just got more crufty with time. Software just gets old and dies, unless it's kept on life support.
>> Refresh and Reset
>> ... The refresh option is especially useful when you find your PC acting
>> slow or buggy. In a one-click or one-tap move, you can refresh the PC
>> without changing any of your files, Windows Store apps, or personalization
>> settings.
>> ... you will lose any desktop programs since those are not synced with
>> your Windows Account.
> Why can't they just write an OS which works correctly most if not all of
> the time? Could it be that the very idea of garbage collection is
> fundamentally flawed?
Ding ding ding ding we have a winner. That is why we never use it in embedded systems that have to run forever without occasional reboots to fix all the allocation issues. Personally, I don't like it at all, though I realize there's a need for it in general-purpose OSs.
Cheers,
Elizabeth
-- ==================================================
Elizabeth D. Rather (US & Canada) 800-55-FORTH
FORTH Inc. +1 310.999.6784
5959 West Century Blvd. Suite 700
Los Angeles, CA 90045
http://www.forth.com
"Forth-based products and Services for real-time
applications since 1973."
==================================================
Elizabeth D. Rather wrote:
> On 11/12/12 5:15 AM, Jason Damisch wrote:
> >> Refresh and Reset
> >> ... The refresh option is especially useful when you find your PC acting
> >> slow or buggy. In a one-click or one-tap move, you can refresh the PC
> >> without changing any of your files, Windows Store apps, or personalization
> >> settings.
> >> ... you will lose any desktop programs since those are not synced with
> >> your Windows Account.
> > Why can't they just write an OS which works correctly most if not all of
> > the time? Could it be that the very idea of garbage collection is
> > fundamentally flawed?
> Ding ding ding ding we have a winner. That is why we never use it in
> embedded systems that have to run forever without occasional reboots to
> fix all the allocation issues. Personally, I don't like it at all,
> though I realize there's a need for it in general-purpose OSs.
Does the same apply to ALLOCATE FREE RESIZE ?
I ask this because I've noted a trend where every computer ill seems
to be blamed on "memory leaks". At the same time I note Forthers
are increasingly using dynamic memory in routines - I assume because
it's in ANS and not through any particular need. Should we trust
ALLOCATE FREE RESIZE - or accept that it may not be foolproof?
I won't even mention MARKER :)
"Ed" <inva...@nospam.com> writes:
>Elizabeth D. Rather wrote:
>> On 11/12/12 5:15 AM, Jason Damisch wrote:
>> > Why can't they just write an OS which works correctly most if not all of
>> > the time? Could it be that the very idea of garbage collection is
>> > fundamentally flawed?
Given that most popular OSs don't use GC internally, their correctness
problems are obviously not due to GC.
More generally, the idea of GC is not fundamentally flawed. GC has
some benefits and some limitations.
>> Ding ding ding ding we have a winner. That is why we never use it in
>> embedded systems that have to run forever without occasional reboots to
>> fix all the allocation issues. Personally, I don't like it at all,
>> though I realize there's a need for it in general-purpose OSs.
>Does the same apply to ALLOCATE FREE RESIZE ?
>I ask this because I've noted a trend where every computer ill seems
>to be blamed on "memory leaks".
Memory leaks are a problem in some long-runnung programs, but most
"ills" I experience are from other kinds of bugs. It's harder to FREE
all dead memory explicity than to eliminate all references to dead
memory, so memory leaks are more common with FREE than with GC.
>> Refresh and Reset
>> ... The refresh option is especially useful when you find your PC acting
>> slow or buggy. In a one-click or one-tap move, you can refresh the PC
>> without changing any of your files, Windows Store apps, or personalization
>> settings.
>> ... you will lose any desktop programs since those are not synced with
>> your Windows Account.
> Why can't they just write an OS which works correctly most if not all of the time? Could it be that the very idea of garbage collection is fundamentally flawed?
Just like any other area of business, they sell what they think will sell best, at least in the sense of making them the most money. If they thought that we would prefer an OS that has fewer features and gives less trouble, that is what they would sell. But their experience tells them that what sells cars, food and computers is flash (with a lower case 'f') color and sound. It's all about the look and feel (again all lower case). If they don't continually update that to make people think they are getting something new and different they won't be able to sell so many and continue to make money.
If someone gives the customers a better alternative, a *real* alternative that is fully usable by the same people who are currently buying Windows, then they will switch. Look at all the Linux users! They don't use Windows because they have an alternative. But for many who don't know so much about computers and don't *want* to know so much about computers, Linux is not much of an option... at least in their minds.
I've recently acquired several extra desktop machines. I'm going to install Linux on one of them and give it a try. Otherwise I will be needing to buy a new laptop which will be... (ominous sounding music plays)... Windows 8.
I took a look at some laptops in the store and asked the attendant if the unusual looking display is just a store display or if that is Windows 8. He said that is the new Start menu, the entire computer is "icon" based (wasn't it always?). I didn't see things like "control panel" or "connect to". I wonder how you make it work...
I like to compare computers to cars. At one time every car had it's own user interface, all somewhat different. With time they migrated to a common look and feel to an extent. But it took legislation to mandate the current PRNDL on automatics and break on the right, gear shift on the left for motorcycles. I wonder if they will ever legislate computer interfaces... lol.
> If someone gives the customers a better alternative, a *real*
> alternative that is fully usable by the same people who are currently
> buying Windows, then they will switch. Look at all the Linux users!
> They don't use Windows because they have an alternative. But for many
> who don't know so much about computers and don't *want* to know so much
> about computers, Linux is not much of an option... at least in their minds.
It isn't just a matter of how much you know about computers, it's what software you need to run. Right now, for instance, the only usable accounting software is Windows-only. So, even though I love my Mac, it's set up with dual-boot to Windows so I can run Quickbooks and Quicken when I need to.
> I've recently acquired several extra desktop machines. I'm going to
> install Linux on one of them and give it a try. Otherwise I will be
> needing to buy a new laptop which will be... (ominous sounding music
> plays)... Windows 8.
It's quite possible to buy a discounted, legal copy of Windows 7. Just google for it. Win7 was/is a pretty good system (as Windows versions go). I would recommend continuing with that rather than wrestling with Win8 for now.
Cheers,
Elizabeth
-- ==================================================
Elizabeth D. Rather (US & Canada) 800-55-FORTH
FORTH Inc. +1 310.999.6784
5959 West Century Blvd. Suite 700
Los Angeles, CA 90045
http://www.forth.com
"Forth-based products and Services for real-time
applications since 1973."
==================================================
> On 11/14/12 11:36 AM, rickman wrote:
> ...
>> If someone gives the customers a better alternative, a *real*
>> alternative that is fully usable by the same people who are currently
>> buying Windows, then they will switch. Look at all the Linux users!
>> They don't use Windows because they have an alternative. But for many
>> who don't know so much about computers and don't *want* to know so much
>> about computers, Linux is not much of an option... at least in their
>> minds.
> It isn't just a matter of how much you know about computers, it's what
> software you need to run. Right now, for instance, the only usable
> accounting software is Windows-only. So, even though I love my Mac, it's
> set up with dual-boot to Windows so I can run Quickbooks and Quicken
> when I need to.
>> I've recently acquired several extra desktop machines. I'm going to
>> install Linux on one of them and give it a try. Otherwise I will be
>> needing to buy a new laptop which will be... (ominous sounding music
>> plays)... Windows 8.
> It's quite possible to buy a discounted, legal copy of Windows 7. Just
> google for it. Win7 was/is a pretty good system (as Windows versions
> go). I would recommend continuing with that rather than wrestling with
> Win8 for now.
I guess that is good if you just want the least pain... except that I am not using Windows 7, so I would still have some pain with that transition. The real issue is I don't want to pay Microsoft for the privilege of using their old software on top of paying them the mandatory fee for buying a computer.
I need a laptop and I would like to be able to buy one without windows. Turns out that is not an option unless you want to pay someone else a premium for the privilege.
> On 11/14/2012 5:12 PM, Elizabeth D. Rather wrote:
...
>> It's quite possible to buy a discounted, legal copy of Windows 7. Just
>> google for it. Win7 was/is a pretty good system (as Windows versions
>> go). I would recommend continuing with that rather than wrestling with
>> Win8 for now.
> I guess that is good if you just want the least pain... except that I am
> not using Windows 7, so I would still have some pain with that
> transition. The real issue is I don't want to pay Microsoft for the
> privilege of using their old software on top of paying them the
> mandatory fee for buying a computer.
> I need a laptop and I would like to be able to buy one without windows.
> Turns out that is not an option unless you want to pay someone else a
> premium for the privilege.
-- ==================================================
Elizabeth D. Rather (US & Canada) 800-55-FORTH
FORTH Inc. +1 310.999.6784
5959 West Century Blvd. Suite 700
Los Angeles, CA 90045
http://www.forth.com
"Forth-based products and Services for real-time
applications since 1973."
==================================================
There are some nice Chromebooks (OS from the evil Google empire instead
of the evil Microsoft empire) coming out at low prices. Maybe it's
possible to run a standard Linux distro on one.
On Wednesday, November 14, 2012 5:12:42 PM UTC-5, Elizabeth D. Rather wrote:
> ... Right now, for instance, the only usable accounting software is Windows-only. So, even though I love my Mac, it's set up with dual-boot to Windows so I can run Quickbooks and Quicken when I need to.
I can't believe it!
When I started with RSC-Forth in 1984, Mr. Streicher from Rockwell Munich, Germany, told me that he had written a book keeping program within an afternoon.
I am doing all my accounting using my own Forth programs, using original sources (bank statements etc.) as input, I don't have to type in any number. I can't understand that there isn't accounting software written in Forth. Would be so easy. If I would have known that it is possible too make money with accounting programs, I would have written one for other people. My own accounting programs written by myself in Forth I only use once a year to do my taxes, so it is still not a general purpose book keeping program. I know other people who wrote their own book keeping programs because they didn't like what is on the market.
> plays)... Windows 8. It's quite possible to buy a discounted, legal copy of Windows 7. Just google for it. Win7 was/is a pretty good system (as Windows versions go). I would recommend continuing with that rather than wrestling with Win8 for now. Cheers, Elizabeth --
I still use Windows XP, and I do not plan to switch to Windows 7 or 8. I would like to use Linux if there would be a Forth running on Linux as easy to use as Win32Forth.
> On Wednesday, November 14, 2012 5:12:42 PM UTC-5, Elizabeth D. Rather wrote:
>> ... Right now, for instance, the only usable accounting software is Windows-only. So, even though I love my Mac, it's set up with dual-boot to Windows so I can run Quickbooks and Quicken when I need to.
> I can't believe it!
> When I started with RSC-Forth in 1984, Mr. Streicher from Rockwell Munich, Germany, told me that he had written a book keeping program within an afternoon.
> I am doing all my accounting using my own Forth programs, using original sources (bank statements etc.) as input, I don't have to type in any number. I can't understand that there isn't accounting software written in Forth. Would be so easy. If I would have known that it is possible too make money with accounting programs, I would have written one for other people. My own accounting programs written by myself in Forth I only use once a year to do my taxes, so it is still not a general purpose book keeping program. I know other people who wrote their own book keeping programs because they didn't like what is on the market.
>> plays)... Windows 8. It's quite possible to buy a discounted, legal copy of Windows 7. Just google for it. Win7 was/is a pretty good system (as Windows versions go). I would recommend continuing with that rather than wrestling with Win8 for now. Cheers, Elizabeth --
> I still use Windows XP, and I do not plan to switch to Windows 7 or 8. I would like to use Linux if there would be a Forth running on Linux as easy to use as Win32Forth.
> Cheers,
> Dirk.
Yeah, Chuck and I wrote some accounting programs in Forth early on, and FORTH, Inc. used one of them until the late 1980's. Peachtree (a major supplier of PC-based accounting software) wrote their first programs using MacForth.
But today's reality is that the state-of-the-art is far more complex than that. The two outfits I do accounting for ($2M/yr and $150,000/yr) really require a level of support that DIY can't provide, unless I wanted to spend my waking hours working on it, which I do not!
Cheers,
Elizabeth
-- ==================================================
Elizabeth D. Rather (US & Canada) 800-55-FORTH
FORTH Inc. +1 310.999.6784
5959 West Century Blvd. Suite 700
Los Angeles, CA 90045
http://www.forth.com
"Forth-based products and Services for real-time
applications since 1973."
==================================================
>I still use Windows XP, and I do not plan to switch to Windows 7 or 8. I
>would like to use Linux if there would be a Forth running on Linux as
>easy to use as Win32Forth.
Win32Forth "easy to use"? What are your criterions?
>Cheers,
>Dirk.
Groetjes Albert
-- Albert van der Horst, UTRECHT,THE NETHERLANDS
Economic growth -- being exponential -- ultimately falters.
albert@spe&ar&c.xs4all.nl &=n http://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst
On Thursday, November 15, 2012 7:20:46 AM UTC-5, Albert van der Horst wrote:
> > In article <4122372d-8762-41a1-ab2c-c94d425a414bgooglegroups.com>, <visualforth.com> wrote: <SNIP> > > I still use Windows XP, and I do not plan to switch to Windows 7 or 8. > > I would like to use Linux if there would be a Forth running on Linux as > > easy to use as Win32Forth. > Win32Forth "easy to use"? What are your criterions?
Thanks for asking! I can't explain - that's why I wrote "easy to use" only!
I only can count my past experience.
RSC-Forth was easy to use for me, F-PC was, UR/Forth was, Win32Forth is, and MPE's Forth for their Tiny ARM stamp.
I had difficulties using LMI's Forth for Windows and Swift Forth - I still have evaluation packages of these both on my computer, but I wasn't able to work with these. May be it's a personal thing.
Do you have similar experience? Did you write your own Forth because of problems with other Forth systems?
Cheers,
Dirk.
P.S.: May be I should make a special topic about this!
> On 11/14/12 12:46 PM, rickman wrote:
>> On 11/14/2012 5:12 PM, Elizabeth D. Rather wrote:
> ...
>>> It's quite possible to buy a discounted, legal copy of Windows 7. Just
>>> google for it. Win7 was/is a pretty good system (as Windows versions
>>> go). I would recommend continuing with that rather than wrestling with
>>> Win8 for now.
>> I guess that is good if you just want the least pain... except that I am
>> not using Windows 7, so I would still have some pain with that
>> transition. The real issue is I don't want to pay Microsoft for the
>> privilege of using their old software on top of paying them the
>> mandatory fee for buying a computer.
>> I need a laptop and I would like to be able to buy one without windows.
>> Turns out that is not an option unless you want to pay someone else a
>> premium for the privilege.
I'm not sure what you mean. This isn't a laptop. When I did the suggested search I didn't find much. I've done this search before and I find none of the linux machine vendors are very competitive on price. I'll look again and see what I find. Thanks.
> Companies like http://www.xoticpc.com will custom build with ubuntu and perhaps other linux distributions.
Custom is great, but can I afford it? That's the problem. I paid $550 for my current laptop with a 17" screen. I can get a much better PC now for around $600 to $750 with 8 MB of RAM and a decent CPU. I haven't seen anything like that for under $1000 with Linux and some of them are over $2000!
They used to have some nicer ones. I still use an old Lenovo Thinkpad
that came with Suse Linux though I actually run Fedora on it. It was
great to buy a laptop without Windows.
Web searching "linux laptop" finds a bunch of other nice machines,
though they tend to be as expensive as (or more than) windows machines
with the same hardware.
