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Please stop feeding the troll
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fred
May 13, 2013, 7:32:45 AM5/13/13
to
you know who I mean; because I nearly plonked people here I respect by
mistake. That would have been a shame.
rickman
May 13, 2013, 8:59:27 AM5/13/13
to
On 5/13/2013 7:32 AM, fred wrote:
>
>
> you know who I mean; because I nearly plonked people here I respect by
> mistake. That would have been a shame.
Actually, I have no idea which of us you consider "the troll" and who
>
>
> you know who I mean; because I nearly plonked people here I respect by
> mistake. That would have been a shame.
you respect. Hmmm... I'm not trying to be a troll, but this could be
considered a troll post I suppose.
I'll try to refrain from replying to the "other" trolls. Sometimes I
just can't resist, the irony in their posts is rather remarkable.
--
Rick
Andrew Haley
May 13, 2013, 10:01:25 AM5/13/13
to
rickman <gnu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 5/13/2013 7:32 AM, fred wrote:
>>
>>
>> you know who I mean; because I nearly plonked people here I respect by
>> mistake. That would have been a shame.
>
> Actually, I have no idea which of us you consider "the troll" and who
> you respect. Hmmm... I'm not trying to be a troll, but this could be
> considered a troll post I suppose.
Naah, 'taint you. You don't come close. You just have your opinions
> On 5/13/2013 7:32 AM, fred wrote:
>>
>>
>> you know who I mean; because I nearly plonked people here I respect by
>> mistake. That would have been a shame.
>
> Actually, I have no idea which of us you consider "the troll" and who
> you respect. Hmmm... I'm not trying to be a troll, but this could be
> considered a troll post I suppose.
and express them. That's OK. No, that's good!
Andrew.
fred
May 13, 2013, 10:22:27 AM5/13/13
to
In article <uoGdnYBfgpOobw3M...@supernews.com>, andrew29
@littlepinkcloud.invalid says...
@littlepinkcloud.invalid says...
> > Actually, I have no idea which of us you consider "the troll" and who
> > you respect. Hmmm... I'm not trying to be a troll, but this could be
> > considered a troll post I suppose.
>
sorry if you thought so - it wasnt meant to be.
> > you respect. Hmmm... I'm not trying to be a troll, but this could be
> > considered a troll post I suppose.
>
rickman
May 13, 2013, 2:21:22 PM5/13/13
to
Actually I can be offended by posts. Some I have received over the
years have been very hurtful, especially the ones from otherwise
professional people who I would otherwise respect. But things are
different when posting on the Internet. Without the face to face
contact people say things they would *never* say to your face... not if
they want to keep their face.
--
Rick
Roberto Waltman
May 13, 2013, 5:48:54 PM5/13/13
to
rickman wrote:
>No offense taken. I just didn't know.
I assume Fred meant the trollino.
>No offense taken. I just didn't know.
--
Roberto Waltman
[ Please reply to the group,
return address is invalid ]
rickman
May 13, 2013, 11:07:20 PM5/13/13
to
On 5/13/2013 5:48 PM, Roberto Waltman wrote:
> rickman wrote:
>> No offense taken. I just didn't know.
>
> I assume Fred meant the trollino.
He doesn't bother me so much as others. But I realize I have been
> rickman wrote:
>> No offense taken. I just didn't know.
>
> I assume Fred meant the trollino.
feeding him again. It's just that he's so *cute* when you give him a
cookie and he does the little dance.
--
Rick
rickman
May 14, 2013, 5:17:19 AM5/14/13
to
On 5/14/2013 1:53 AM, hughag...@yahoo.com wrote:
> Rickman is a troll. As long as I can remember, he has been taunting people, trying to get an emotional response out of them. He accused me of being homosexual over on the win32forth mailing list. I suppose he was trying to get me to do a "little dance" for him.
>
> I think Rickman taunts people on the internet because he doesn't have any pride, and he just wants to drag people down to his own level, to prove that he is not the only loser in the world. I consider Rickman to be in roughly the same category as Passaniti. Neither of them ever post any Forth code, or appear to have ever written a Forth program, but both claim to be great experts on Forth. That is typical troll behavior.
I think you have me confused with some other rickman. I have *never*
claimed to be a "great expert in Forth". I'm here to learn something
about Forth and sometimes ask for advice on programming. For the most
part, I have already heard the word and just need to be reminded.
Things like when Jeff Fox said that if you have stack
overflows/underflows you don't need a debugger, you just need to be able
to count!
Then there is the odd post on forth inspired hardware.
--
Rick
>
> I think Rickman taunts people on the internet because he doesn't have any pride, and he just wants to drag people down to his own level, to prove that he is not the only loser in the world. I consider Rickman to be in roughly the same category as Passaniti. Neither of them ever post any Forth code, or appear to have ever written a Forth program, but both claim to be great experts on Forth. That is typical troll behavior.
I think you have me confused with some other rickman. I have *never*
claimed to be a "great expert in Forth". I'm here to learn something
about Forth and sometimes ask for advice on programming. For the most
part, I have already heard the word and just need to be reminded.
Things like when Jeff Fox said that if you have stack
overflows/underflows you don't need a debugger, you just need to be able
to count!
Then there is the odd post on forth inspired hardware.
--
Rick
Steve
May 14, 2013, 11:33:07 AM5/14/13
to
psychology. I get back, virtually none. I'm giving him another
chance, but so far he has not shown useful substance. Much like
somebody else.
Steve
May 14, 2013, 12:10:51 PM5/14/13
to
> Rickman is a troll. As long as I can remember, he has been taunting people, trying to get an emotional response out of them. He accused me of being homosexual over on the win32forth mailing list. I suppose he was trying to get me to do a "little dance" for him.
>
> I think Rickman taunts people on the internet because he doesn't have any pride, and he just wants to drag people down to his own level, to prove that he is not the only loser in the world. I consider Rickman to be in roughly the same category as Passaniti. Neither of them ever post any Forth code, or appear to have ever written a Forth program, but both claim to be great experts on Forth. That is typical troll behavior.
Anybody know his real name?
>
> I think Rickman taunts people on the internet because he doesn't have any pride, and he just wants to drag people down to his own level, to prove that he is not the only loser in the world. I consider Rickman to be in roughly the same category as Passaniti. Neither of them ever post any Forth code, or appear to have ever written a Forth program, but both claim to be great experts on Forth. That is typical troll behavior.
Something sounds familiar. Been posting with him before, to give him
a chance, rather than assume worst, like others may given same
circumstance. Had a trawl infestation on my discussion, please go
over there and blacklist them all, eventually they can taunt each
other. Well, another 20 hours being nice to people that don't get it,
watching them dance around clumsily in the shadows, undermining
others. Psychologically it is not compatible with somebody I would
want to hire. I need somebody with superior intelligence, but then
would they understand what that means?
I think if we don't feed Rick man and friends, but ignore them, they
will have to get message.
daveyrotten
May 14, 2013, 1:10:55 PM5/14/13
to
> Anybody know his real name?
>
> Something sounds familiar. Been posting with him before, to give him
> a chance, rather than assume worst, like others may given same
> circumstance. Had a trawl infestation on my discussion, please go
> over there and blacklist them all, eventually they can taunt each
> other. Well, another 20 hours being nice to people that don't get it,
> watching them dance around clumsily in the shadows, undermining
> others. Psychologically it is not compatible with somebody I would
> want to hire. I need somebody with superior intelligence, but then
> would they understand what that means?
>
> I think if we don't feed Rick man and friends, but ignore them, they
> will have to get message.
Hugely misguided and outrageously optimistic expectations coupled with a total inablility to communicate them. Yep, you'd make the perfect boss Steve. Sign me up!
>
> Something sounds familiar. Been posting with him before, to give him
> a chance, rather than assume worst, like others may given same
> circumstance. Had a trawl infestation on my discussion, please go
> over there and blacklist them all, eventually they can taunt each
> other. Well, another 20 hours being nice to people that don't get it,
> watching them dance around clumsily in the shadows, undermining
> others. Psychologically it is not compatible with somebody I would
> want to hire. I need somebody with superior intelligence, but then
> would they understand what that means?
>
> I think if we don't feed Rick man and friends, but ignore them, they
> will have to get message.
Steve
May 14, 2013, 1:47:52 PM5/14/13
to
was being nice about it, but the inability to communicate remark, do I
smell a trawl? Davey Rotten. that sounds as made up as something
"man". :-) Is this your 8th post on Usenet in 2 years Dan?
Hm, guys a couple of your accounts seem to have big gaps of
inactivity, then unusually feather light posting afterwards.
hughag...@yahoo.com
May 14, 2013, 9:45:51 PM5/14/13
to
On Tuesday, May 14, 2013 9:10:51 AM UTC-7, Steve wrote:
> Anybody know his real name?
It is Rick Collins.
> Anybody know his real name?
Steve
May 14, 2013, 10:33:30 PM5/14/13
to
Thanks, always good to know the name of people doing stuff around ones
business.
Which city does he live in?
Steve
May 14, 2013, 11:42:06 PM5/14/13
to
management and action.
How many finger puppets do some people have here? A finger puppet
(meaning potentially many fingers with puppets). A finger puppet can
be used for protection, such as you want to do some research but don't
want your business opposition to know what you are up to, even to hide
from a troll; or used to hide behind to attack others, trolling,
causing potentially millions of dollars damage to business ventures,
as is the present case.
Dealing with.
If you go to Google groups and look at the profiles of members, you
will see accounts that hardly post and usually in troling efforts off
their main account, or main tolling account. Not fresh accounts with
good effort of a lot of sensible posts (not that many people can tell
what is sense with new ideas, but blatant tolling sticks out among
sense). You will also see long stretches of non posting, before
posting resumes with abnormally light posting for trolling. This may
indicate that a email account was surrendered closed down and reopened
by somebody else for trolling. So you could check that they still
post in the same groups as the same person. It could be that they
were busy for a time/year, or there has been a tragedy.
The other way, that I have been meaning to look at, is to see if any
header information reveals that multiple accounts are being posted
from the same computer. Unfortunately for troll and puppets, we have
many years of archive posts, in which time most are bound to side
posted under different identities in the same group for trolling
purposes, if they are trolls. So, look out for sudden new accounts
turning up in coming weeks and months. Anything new through anonymous
servers should immediately be suspect.
If after you encourage somebody along to understanding and truth, and
they are still deliberately evasivly avoiding and fane
misunderstanding, they could be a troll wasting valuable time and
earnings with nothing offered in return, on top of losses and
hardship.
I welcome everybody to look into this, and black list any account used
to troll trouble and anybody. Not what just annoys you (which might
indicate trolling leanings in yourself) and that is not trying to
cause trouble, but instead what may be given trouble. I suspect the
trolls either to make big noise, or hide, or having said that, try to
appear moderate and cool. I welcome the trolls blacklisting me. I
will get left alone :-)
We are all here to get along, even if we disagree.
------
A right of free speech is given to actual persons. Here we don't stop
people posting, but allowing people to choose who to look at, as it
always has been in Usenet going back into ancient history of society
and the world at large, in a more affective way for Usenet approaching
the standard face to face identifiable meetings.
Paul Rubin
May 14, 2013, 11:50:39 PM5/14/13
to
Steve <nosp...@gmail.com> writes:
> You mean Rickman is Rick Collins, and Rick Collins is Rickman.
> Thanks, always good to know the name of people doing stuff around ones
> business.
> Which city does he live in?
You are getting creepy, especially since you don't post your own full name.
> You mean Rickman is Rick Collins, and Rick Collins is Rickman.
> Thanks, always good to know the name of people doing stuff around ones
> business.
> Which city does he live in?
Steve
May 15, 2013, 12:13:25 AM5/15/13
to
Collins. Undoubtedly not related. Good to know where issues come
from. Nothing unusual in that.
Doesn't one have the right to hide from people causing them issues,
for protection. I have seen his past posts.
rickman
May 15, 2013, 1:36:26 AM5/15/13
to
That is... if you can *find* me. You can find all sorts of info on me,
but I seriously doubt anyone here could ever actually find me... I'm a
phantom... lol
If you mean I am causing you "issues", I apologize. I'm not trying to
give you any grief. In fact, this thread wasn't started my me. So I'm
not sure why you are focusing on me. Still, that's ok. Go ahead and
focus on me if you want. But your efforts would be better spent trying
to focus on your work and finding a way to communicate to folks here.
You may think you have explained things well, but obviously there are
many here who don't really understand and *not* because they didn't read
what you wrote. I know I have tried, tried hard to understand your posts.
--
Rick
hughag...@yahoo.com
May 15, 2013, 2:11:29 AM5/15/13
to
On Tuesday, May 14, 2013 10:36:26 PM UTC-7, rickman wrote:
> On 5/15/2013 12:13 AM, Steve wrote:
>
> > Paul Rubin wrote:
> >> Steve<nosp...@gmail.com> writes:
> >>> You mean Rickman is Rick Collins, and Rick Collins is Rickman.
> >>> Thanks, always good to know the name of people doing stuff around ones
> >>> business.
> >>> Which city does he live in?
>
> >> You are getting creepy, especially since you don't post your own full name.
> > I'm not aiming to visit him. I know Collins', he sounds like a
> > Collins. Undoubtedly not related. Good to know where issues come
> > from. Nothing unusual in that.
>
> > Doesn't one have the right to hide from people causing them issues,
> > for protection. I have seen his past posts.
> Lol! Go ahead, visit me. It would be an incredible trip to meet you.
> That is... if you can *find* me. You can find all sorts of info on me,
> but I seriously doubt anyone here could ever actually find me... I'm a
> phantom... lol
Sure, living in your parent's basement would make you difficult to find! lol
> On 5/15/2013 12:13 AM, Steve wrote:
>
> > Paul Rubin wrote:
> >> Steve<nosp...@gmail.com> writes:
> >>> You mean Rickman is Rick Collins, and Rick Collins is Rickman.
> >>> Thanks, always good to know the name of people doing stuff around ones
> >>> business.
> >>> Which city does he live in?
>
> >> You are getting creepy, especially since you don't post your own full name.
> > I'm not aiming to visit him. I know Collins', he sounds like a
> > Collins. Undoubtedly not related. Good to know where issues come
> > from. Nothing unusual in that.
>
> > Doesn't one have the right to hide from people causing them issues,
> > for protection. I have seen his past posts.
> Lol! Go ahead, visit me. It would be an incredible trip to meet you.
> That is... if you can *find* me. You can find all sorts of info on me,
> but I seriously doubt anyone here could ever actually find me... I'm a
> phantom... lol
That is not security --- that is obscurity.
Steve
May 15, 2013, 2:27:47 AM5/15/13
to
it into saying I do.
Notice "phantom" which is not what I expect a noral person to say.
He has switched to voice of reason mode and apologized, I don't think
I ever have seen him apologise, have you Hugh? Did he apologise to
you?
Notice he now contradicts his past behaviour in his new
reasonableness, acting like they had not happen.
He knows time and time again that he has misunderstood/not known about
common thread subjects, and information. but alleged he has read it
all. Others too comment on what they don't know ignoring information
in the discussion. However, he alleges he is being real. When is a
square not a circle, all the time.
rickman
May 15, 2013, 2:58:45 AM5/15/13
to
On 5/13/2013 7:32 AM, fred wrote:
>
>
>
>
> you know who I mean; because I nearly plonked people here I respect by
> mistake. That would have been a shame.
Wow, even this thread is out of control. I will try to stop the troll
> mistake. That would have been a shame.
feeding. Sorry.
--
Rick
Steve
May 15, 2013, 3:17:48 AM5/15/13
to
hughaguila...@yahoo.com wrote:
No, I wasn't interested in asking where he lived. just what city. If
he wants to go around for years trying to mess around in community
projects, peoples threads and posts, then he should not be anonymous.
Non anonymity just means that people in such a persons region will
know he is that person, and hold him accountable for his public
conduct. That is the only real deterrent for this sort of behaviour
without laws etc. Not listening to them aledge they did not do
anything after it is there written and recorded to be decipher. He
may well be trying to antagonism me into saying something he can use,
but I am genuinely not that interested in him or seeing him. He is
just a irrelevant problem.
> There was some guy posting on c.l.f. a while back (actually, I think he was scatter-posting on a variety of google groups sites) a link to his website that is totally focused on denouncing Mentifex (real name: Arthur Murray) as a pest. What was very creepy about him however, was that his website also provided Arthur's home address. The obvious implication was that he wanted somebody to go do some violence to the poor guy. I complained that this was stalking, and immediately the post disappeared from c.l.f.. It seems unlikely that the guy deleted his own post --- more likely, was that somebody at Google deleted it.
I don't read Arthur's stuff, but that is what originally got me into
Forth, I could instantly see how I could make a natural language AI
interface out of it for adventure gaming in around 1981 to 1983.
But this is like I was saying, like me Arthur is being stalked and
pestered by trolls. If you can't see how that is troll like
behaviour, it is. Sure his stuff might be a bit ecstatic, a bit too
often, but nothing to be offended about, you don't have to go into his
thread. Im am not interested in stalking Rick, and I am categorically
not interested in doing him violence, or in seeing it done. But I
must be careful how I say it, because knowing how Rick alleges his
brain works, he might read that statement and think I'm saying
ssomething like I'll sic Adolph Hittler on him, on a leash like a
poodle (everybody can laugh at that one). Already his read the
statement that I don't want to come and see him like I do want to,
eerie. He haa done this misunderstanding a lot in my threads.
Hugh, you are not saying he had anything to do with that site?
Google can only delete posts off their own servers, is that right? I
double posted a few weeks ago and deleted one of them, but it should
still turn up off non Google services. I wonder if Google has a
traditional Usenet hosting service?
> I think that Mentifex is more than a little bit weird, but I certainly don't want anything bad to happen to him. His posts don't harm anybody. He really believes in that "Singularity is Near" stuff, but that is just a harmless fantasy. I personally believe that the Apocalypse is Near, which is the opposite side of the coin, but I don't talk about that on c.l.f. (or, actually, anywhere), because I know that it doesn't help me make friends.
I'm not worried, it is the ones that stalk you with rubbish and
destroying things, that I'm worried about, they probably keep 90% of
the "right" people out of groups, leaving too many bad ones. That ia
the issue, why they should be exposed to stop the rubbish from
bringing things down. Once their employers get to see their
behaviour, and exercise their own freedom of speech (note, of "speech"
not of action, to state information is speech, to pervert information
is an action) maybe they will calm down.
>
> Anyway, this is just the internet --- none of this foolishness is important enough that any violence should be done out in the real world.
Agreed, there are far more serious personal stuff going on out there
on the internet, and thankfully the law is catching up.
> I think that Rickman is a jerk, but I don't really care about him. That business of
Me too, I gave him chances, but coming in your threads in your face to
mess around when you are trying to help people is not acceptable.
> accusing me of being homosexual was an obvious troll ploy --- this was at a time when I was complaining that Passaniti promoting homosexuality on c.l.f. was inappropriate, and Elizabeth Rather was denouncing me as being homophobic. Rickman hoped that he could give me this "cookie" and that I would "do a little dance" for him. It is all foolishness though --- nobody with any sense is going to believe him (for the record, I'm not homosexual) --- the only result of his stunt was that Alex McDonald banned me from the Win32Forth mailing list, but I didn't care anyway (Alex McDonald is a jerk too).
Sorry to hear that, want to be in my mailing list/forum when it comes
around? You sound like a nice guy. You know, we could all go private
moderated forth board and ditch these......
We could even change thus to a moderated news group, and I could
moderate and set all troll accounts to go through the spam folder
Sorry, forth is nowhere because of behaviour like this. You even ask
people stuff, or look at what they suggested and don't find anything,
and ask them and get no answer Somebody sent me over to the misc
school but did not find any mailing lists or forums, but they did not
tell me anything more.
Steve.
Steve
May 15, 2013, 3:20:35 AM5/15/13
to
See, with this level of understanding, he is going to starve to death.
Steve
May 15, 2013, 3:28:31 AM5/15/13
to
Does anybody know where Rick's FPGA forth chip designs are, it would
be with having a look at?
I don't have anything personal against him. it is just that he is
probably a really great guy when he behaves. Then again, I'm a pretty
tolerant guy and rather accepting.
be with having a look at?
I don't have anything personal against him. it is just that he is
probably a really great guy when he behaves. Then again, I'm a pretty
tolerant guy and rather accepting.
Steve
May 15, 2013, 3:32:37 AM5/15/13
to
Did he really say that?
hughag...@yahoo.com
May 15, 2013, 5:31:07 AM5/15/13
to
Actually, I'm unemployed too --- but I admit it --- I don't pretend on the internet to be pulling down a six figure salary when I'm actually driving a cab.
jacko
May 15, 2013, 11:39:03 AM5/15/13
to
I had an idea for a website once, where a thread could be detached to, and people could vote on the best troll strategy to keep that troll baited. It would keep them off the streets. :D
Steve
May 15, 2013, 1:47:32 PM5/15/13
to
While I assess a troll's character, to see how good or bad they are,
like Santa Clause, you can see them do their little dance trying to
bait you. I once saw a guy still in the same thread for 18 months
trying to trawl it, not realising he was wasting his time. Eventually
the community took pity on him and reintegrated him. Certain trolls
like to put out brief comments in replies, that need a lengthy
explanation. The same could be done for trolls. Two words to a
sentence can keep a conversation going with them giving answers two to
three times as big.
Steve
May 15, 2013, 1:47:42 PM5/15/13
to
hughaguila...@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 15, 2013 12:17:48 AM UTC-7, Steve wrote:
> > hughaguila...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > > There was some guy posting on c.l.f. a while back (actually, I think he was scatter-posting on a variety of google groups sites) a link to his website that is totally focused on denouncing Mentifex (real name: Arthur Murray) as a pest. What was very creepy about him however, was that his website also provided Arthur's home address. The obvious implication was that he wanted somebody to go do some violence to the poor guy. I complained that this was stalking, and immediately the post disappeared from c.l.f.. It seems unlikely that the guy deleted his own post --- more likely, was that somebody at Google deleted it.
> >
> > I don't read Arthur's stuff, but that is what originally got me into
> > Forth, I could instantly see how I could make a natural language AI
> > interface out of it for adventure gaming in around 1981 to 1983.
> > But this is like I was saying, like me Arthur is being stalked and
> > pestered by trolls. If you can't see how that is troll like
> > behaviour, it is. Sure his stuff might be a bit ecstatic, a bit too
> > often, but nothing to be offended about, you don't have to go into his
> > thread. Im am not interested in stalking Rick, and I am categorically
> > not interested in doing him violence, or in seeing it done. But I
> > must be careful how I say it, because knowing how Rick alleges his
> > brain works, he might read that statement and think I'm saying
> > ssomething like I'll sic Adolph Hittler on him, on a leash like a
> > poodle (everybody can laugh at that one). Already his read the
> > statement that I don't want to come and see him like I do want to,
> > eerie. He haa done this misunderstanding a lot in my threads.
> >
> > Hugh, you are not saying he had anything to do with that site?
>
> No, I don't have any reason to believe that Rickman was involved in that. I was just mentioning that as an example of how things on the internet can get out of hand --- somebody implying a threat of violence against a harmless fool
> > hughaguila...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > > There was some guy posting on c.l.f. a while back (actually, I think he was scatter-posting on a variety of google groups sites) a link to his website that is totally focused on denouncing Mentifex (real name: Arthur Murray) as a pest. What was very creepy about him however, was that his website also provided Arthur's home address. The obvious implication was that he wanted somebody to go do some violence to the poor guy. I complained that this was stalking, and immediately the post disappeared from c.l.f.. It seems unlikely that the guy deleted his own post --- more likely, was that somebody at Google deleted it.
> >
> > I don't read Arthur's stuff, but that is what originally got me into
> > Forth, I could instantly see how I could make a natural language AI
> > interface out of it for adventure gaming in around 1981 to 1983.
> > But this is like I was saying, like me Arthur is being stalked and
> > pestered by trolls. If you can't see how that is troll like
> > behaviour, it is. Sure his stuff might be a bit ecstatic, a bit too
> > often, but nothing to be offended about, you don't have to go into his
> > thread. Im am not interested in stalking Rick, and I am categorically
> > not interested in doing him violence, or in seeing it done. But I
> > must be careful how I say it, because knowing how Rick alleges his
> > brain works, he might read that statement and think I'm saying
> > ssomething like I'll sic Adolph Hittler on him, on a leash like a
> > poodle (everybody can laugh at that one). Already his read the
> > statement that I don't want to come and see him like I do want to,
> > eerie. He haa done this misunderstanding a lot in my threads.
> >
> > Hugh, you are not saying he had anything to do with that site?
>
>
> There are a lot of people on the internet who have some personal agenda that they are pushing. Mentifex is an example of this, with his belief in the Singularity. For the most part, they do no harm (Mentifex is totally harmless), and they are totally ignored (it is very rare for Mentifex to get any response to his posts at all). Rickman is actually pretty harmless too, because he can also be ignored (although he actively tries to bait people, so you have to be careful not to get tricked into doing a little dance for him). For the most part, these free-lance trolls don't bother me at all.
>
> What bothers me, is a troll who is "sponsored" by supposedly legitimate members. I'm referring to Passaniti, of course. He is clearly a troll, in that he has never said anything positive about anybody or any software, and every effort at discussing technical issues becomes ridiculous: his claim of Forth expertise is based on having written a Forth-like interpreter in Perl (Perl seems to be only language that he knows), and he thinks that lists are more efficient than trees, etc., etc.. The problem here is that he is sponsored by Elizabeth Rather, who is a pretty big wheel in the Forth community, representing Forth Inc.. When I complained that I was offended by Passaniti saying that my code "sucks," Elizabeth Rather responded by praising Passaniti's technical knowledge, denouncing me for being homophobic, and kill-filing me (since that time, every comment she has directed at me has been a denunciation and an encouragement to everybody to kill-file me).
>
> The result is that most comp.lang.forth members realize that they can't just ignore Passaniti in the same way that they would ignore Rickman or Mentifex, because this would incur the wrath of Rather. To stay on E.R.'s good side, and avoid my fate, they are obliged to feed this troll. So, when Passaniti is attacking me, they join in (that was really what Rickman was doing with his homosexual accusation). Also, they play make-believe with Passaniti, pretending that his inane technical comments are actually profound (the wisdom of the fool?). I have seen Bernd Payson do this many times --- carry on lengthy discussions about FPGA or whatnot with Passaniti, despite the fact that Passaniti obviously knows nothing of the subject. This really drags down the whole Forth community. Considering that Forth programming is pretty much the only skill that I have, when the Forth community gets dragged through the mud, I take that personally.
>
> Now Passaniti has disappeared. Maybe he is in jail, or he just decided to go be gay somewhere else, or whatever. Comp.lang.forth has really settled down quite a lot since he has disappeared. Yea! As for Rickman etc.; they cause some trouble, but not much, because they don't have any sponsor and nobody really feels obliged to respond to them.
>
> I wonder though: if Passaniti doesn't return at all, will he be replaced by someone similar? Will Elizabeth Rather begin praising Rickman, for example, so that he can become her new pet? I hope not! But she does seem to need somebody to attack her enemies for her. What if somebody points out one of the many problems with SwiftForth and/or with the ANS-Forth standard? E.R. needs an attack-poodle to chase the critic away. She doesn't want to do it herself though, because it would make her look bad to go around telling people that they "suck" --- she needs an agent to do it for her.
>
> > > accusing me of being homosexual was an obvious troll ploy --- this was at a time when I was complaining that Passaniti promoting homosexuality on c.l.f. was inappropriate, and Elizabeth Rather was denouncing me as being homophobic. Rickman hoped that he could give me this "cookie" and that I would "do a little dance" for him. It is all foolishness though --- nobody with any sense is going to believe him (for the record, I'm not homosexual) --- the only result of his stunt was that Alex McDonald banned me from the Win32Forth mailing list, but I didn't care anyway (Alex McDonald is a jerk too).
> >
> > Sorry to hear that, want to be in my mailing list/forum when it comes
> > around? You sound like a nice guy. You know, we could all go private
> > moderated forth board and ditch these......
> >
> > We could even change thus to a moderated news group, and I could
> > moderate and set all troll accounts to go through the spam folder
>
> Sure! I think that a moderated group worthwhile. I'm going to need a forum to support Straight Forth and its off-shoot CAMForth. I was just going to start my own mailing list or forum --- but it is better to have multiple related subjects discussed --- it would be rather limited and boring to have a forum that is devoted to only a single piece of software, at least until that piece of software has hundreds of users, which isn't going to happen any time soon with my stuff.
> > > accusing me of being homosexual was an obvious troll ploy --- this was at a time when I was complaining that Passaniti promoting homosexuality on c.l.f. was inappropriate, and Elizabeth Rather was denouncing me as being homophobic. Rickman hoped that he could give me this "cookie" and that I would "do a little dance" for him. It is all foolishness though --- nobody with any sense is going to believe him (for the record, I'm not homosexual) --- the only result of his stunt was that Alex McDonald banned me from the Win32Forth mailing list, but I didn't care anyway (Alex McDonald is a jerk too).
> >
> > Sorry to hear that, want to be in my mailing list/forum when it comes
> > around? You sound like a nice guy. You know, we could all go private
> > moderated forth board and ditch these......
> >
> > We could even change thus to a moderated news group, and I could
> > moderate and set all troll accounts to go through the spam folder
>
That was funny.
Relationships are a strange thing. Elizabeth may not have any ill
intent in this Hugh, it might be that her and Rick coincide.
Still, nobody has mentioned where Rick's softcore forth processors
are?
About the forum/list. I was going to start something up about my
products and offered to cohost Misc discussions as there seems no
other place. But extending things out to more products might dilute
the main topics a bit. But it sounds interesting. Thinking about it,
there is no real way to control troll behaviour on Usenet
unmoderated. Maybe there is room for a sponsored moderated site for
all forth subjects. It is sad, but Usenet is being caned by tolling,
and we may have lost 90% of real members because of it. Starting a
site is not going to get them back in a rush, but over time it could
be built up.
I have a two major literary works to write, and I was thinking of
eventuanly opening a humanitarian site before hand. Misc and forth
are two beneficial topics that could go on their. Until then, I might
be doing a few mailing lists. I normally would just go for Google
groups and sites, but I've tried the new groups on a Google browser,
and Im back here with old Google groups on a non Google browser, put
it that way. Really off putting, slow clucky, and even thinks the
Google browser is safari and I should upgrade. I'm interested in a
combined site blog and forum service.
People talk about educational forth, but we need to think outside the
box, visual forth with visual symbolic programming metaphors, extended
out like whitelightning forth, helios, and logo. Im sure you might be
able to use a blender backend for authorware, or other open source.
Even if 10% of kids get it, 1% of the 10%, would be lots of kids. I
think people need to look at the next generation of programming tools,
programming tutorials and a $10 playstore, istore, windows store etc,
etc listing, $30 with the disk, $100 with manual and manual training
set. But nobody has the money to do that and risk it all.
Hugh, the way I think of it, is we need to make our own work to make
Forth a success again. I'm doing my own projects and have spotted a
few people I would like to ask to join me to code really tight code.
You are doing your own. A useful question is how can one make a no
risk low cost casual part time profit outside of the main job.
Alex Wegel
May 15, 2013, 7:50:15 PM5/15/13
to
Get a therapy, dumbass (and stop repeating your lies) (which is not to
say that you should invent new ones).
say that you should invent new ones).
hughag...@yahoo.com
May 15, 2013, 7:52:45 PM5/15/13
to
On Wednesday, May 15, 2013 10:47:42 AM UTC-7, Steve wrote:
> About the forum/list. I was going to start something up about my
> products and offered to cohost Misc discussions as there seems no
> other place. But extending things out to more products might dilute
> the main topics a bit. But it sounds interesting. Thinking about it,
> there is no real way to control troll behaviour on Usenet
> unmoderated. Maybe there is room for a sponsored moderated site for
> all forth subjects. It is sad, but Usenet is being caned by tolling,
> and we may have lost 90% of real members because of it. Starting a
> site is not going to get them back in a rush, but over time it could
> be built up.
Actually, moderated sites have their own problems.
> About the forum/list. I was going to start something up about my
> products and offered to cohost Misc discussions as there seems no
> other place. But extending things out to more products might dilute
> the main topics a bit. But it sounds interesting. Thinking about it,
> there is no real way to control troll behaviour on Usenet
> unmoderated. Maybe there is room for a sponsored moderated site for
> all forth subjects. It is sad, but Usenet is being caned by tolling,
> and we may have lost 90% of real members because of it. Starting a
> site is not going to get them back in a rush, but over time it could
> be built up.
Consider comp.lang.asm.x86 (CLAX), which is about x86 assembly-language. When Randy Hyde wrote HLA (High-Level-Assembler), he was attacked relentlessly on the basis that it wasn't really an assembler, but was actually a high-level language (HLL). Mostly it was the RosAsm guy, but everybody else got in on the act as well. It was all foolishness though --- HLA allows the programmer to dedicate registers globally --- what other definition is there of an assembler? The whole situation got out of hand, with everybody spending all of their time flaming him. Eventually Hyde got banned from CLAX, not because he had done anything wrong himself, but just because his continued presence was bringing out the worst in everybody. This was all before my time at CLAX, although I stumbled into the aftermath of the debacle by showing up and mentioning that I was using HLA, not realizing that there was some history on CLAX with HLA.
It will be difficult for you, as the moderator of this brave new forum, to avoid similar problems. How will you define exactly what is on-topic and what is off-topic? If CLAX can't define what x86 assembly-language is, which I would have expected to be a trivial one-sentence definition, then how will you define what is on-topic in your forum?
See this thread for a discussion of the current state of affairs at CLAX:
https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!topic/comp.lang.asm.x86/54Z3YeZA4Xk
Nathan Baker is starting a new forum for HLA, and possibly related subjects.
For the most part, moderated groups are far better than unmoderated groups, but you still get flame-wars, so it is not a perfect solution.
The only way I can think of to avoid flame-wars, is to ban humans from the internet altogether, and only allow beagles --- they are much nicer animals, really.
P.S. Steve, you have really got to do something about that spell-checker of yours --- your posts remind me of those Ad-Libs games that kids fill out, plugging arbitrary nouns, verbs and adjectives into sentences. We are all getting "caned by tolling" now!
Steve
May 15, 2013, 9:51:25 PM5/15/13
to
hughaguila...@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 15, 2013 10:47:42 AM UTC-7, Steve wrote:
> > About the forum/list. I was going to start something up about my
> > products and offered to cohost Misc discussions as there seems no
> > other place. But extending things out to more products might dilute
> > the main topics a bit. But it sounds interesting. Thinking about it,
> > there is no real way to control troll behaviour on Usenet
> > unmoderated. Maybe there is room for a sponsored moderated site for
> > all forth subjects. It is sad, but Usenet is being caned by tolling,
> > and we may have lost 90% of real members because of it. Starting a
> > site is not going to get them back in a rush, but over time it could
> > be built up.
>
> Actually, moderated sites have their own problems.
>
> Consider comp.lang.asm.x86 (CLAX), which is about x86 assembly-language. When Randy Hyde wrote HLA (High-Level-Assembler), he was attacked relentlessly on the basis that it wasn't really an assembler, but was actually a high-level language (HLL). Mostly it was the RosAsm guy, but everybody else got in on the act as well. It was all foolishness though --- HLA allows the programmer to dedicate registers globally --- what other definition is there of an assembler? The whole situation got out of hand, with everybody spending all of their time flaming him. Eventually Hyde got banned from CLAX, not because he had done anything wrong himself, but just because his continued presence was bringing out the worst in everybody. This was all before my time at CLAX, although I stumbled into the aftermath of the debacle by showing up and mentioning that I was using HLA, not realizing that there was some history on CLAX with HLA.
like this, and had a program years ago that mixed assembler with a
high level language. I don't know if he was bringing the worst out in
people, or they were just bad. You would on a normal group change the
moderator and get somebody in to tell them to behave or their posts
are not going through. But what groups are normal when it comes to
dealing with moderation issues, the break down in forum
responsibility.
If Hla can be normally used to program low level assembler, than it
must be true assembler, by definition. Forth can be used to mix
assembler, can we learn anything from Hal to improve forth towards a
forth based hla hybrid, a good question?
> It will be difficult for you, as the moderator of this brave new forum, to avoid similar problems. How will you define exactly what is on-topic and what is off-topic? If CLAX can't define what x86 assembly-language is, which I would have expected to be a trivial one-sentence definition, then how will you define what is on-topic in your forum?
Related to the subject area or friendly mutual offtopic talk will be
fine. In a forum system you can have places for everything, but in a
mailing lists or Usenet forum, you often don't. In the mailing list
I would most likely just put through posts automatically, filter
joining, and ban trolls and mutual conversation puppets. Bad
behaviour, I might ban accounts, or I might see if I can put in a
moderated mode to stem the flow. We should pay $100 a year and have
proper moderation on forums on the internet.
I think I might require proof of identity and past history evidence
before approving most accounts. For non professional areas of a
general board I would be interested in an open approval process. At
the rate a lot of dumb behavior here, it makes me feel dubious about
wasting time doing a forum.
I was in a offtopic subfforum and a moderator closed one of my threads
after it posted, as being in the wrong place, nothing wrong with it.
Another guy, I think a friend of or moderator, posted a thread equally
off topic, and no problems, with even the moderator that did my thread
in there. Abuse of moderation really is an issue needing laws.
> P.S. Steve, you have really got to do something about that spell-checker of yours --- your posts remind me of those Ad-Libs games that kids fill out, plugging arbitrary nouns, verbs and adjectives into sentences. We are all getting "caned by tolling" now!
sleeping pill, I thought it was ok. That sentence was deliberate,
maybe it is an Asian thing, or I misspelled caned. But at schools we
used to have canes made of vine for discipline, called canning. My
spell checker understanding does pulls a lot of Rickisms :-)
Looks like we are attracting more mentally off attention seeking
trolling posts from accounts with questionable posting rates.
Steve.
Albert van der Horst
May 17, 2013, 10:30:16 AM5/17/13
to
In article <2437efae-1e1c-4ff8...@googlegroups.com>,
<hughag...@yahoo.com> wrote:
<SNIP>
But if I where moderator, I would have allowed it and with brute authority
disallowed all meta-discussion about my decision.
That works. (And makes being a moderator an unthankful job.)
Groetjes Albert
--
Albert van der Horst, UTRECHT,THE NETHERLANDS
Economic growth -- being exponential -- ultimately falters.
albert@spe&ar&c.xs4all.nl &=n http://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst
<hughag...@yahoo.com> wrote:
<SNIP>
>Actually, moderated sites have their own problems.
>
>Consider comp.lang.asm.x86 (CLAX), which is about x86 assembly-language.
>When Randy Hyde wrote HLA (High-Level-Assembler), he was attacked
>relentlessly on the basis that it wasn't really an assembler, but was
>actually a high-level language (HLL). Mostly it was the RosAsm guy, but
<SNIP>
>
>Consider comp.lang.asm.x86 (CLAX), which is about x86 assembly-language.
>When Randy Hyde wrote HLA (High-Level-Assembler), he was attacked
>relentlessly on the basis that it wasn't really an assembler, but was
>actually a high-level language (HLL). Mostly it was the RosAsm guy, but
>
>For the most part, moderated groups are far better than unmoderated
>groups, but you still get flame-wars, so it is not a perfect solution.
I'm all on the side with people who think that HLA is not an assembler.
>For the most part, moderated groups are far better than unmoderated
>groups, but you still get flame-wars, so it is not a perfect solution.
But if I where moderator, I would have allowed it and with brute authority
disallowed all meta-discussion about my decision.
That works. (And makes being a moderator an unthankful job.)
Groetjes Albert
--
Albert van der Horst, UTRECHT,THE NETHERLANDS
Economic growth -- being exponential -- ultimately falters.
albert@spe&ar&c.xs4all.nl &=n http://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst
Steve
May 19, 2013, 8:17:34 AM5/19/13
to
even criminal laws on moderator conduct. They should be required to
correctly justify everything they do. If they are justified, then no
meta discussion is needed, if not then they deserve it. Offensive
juvenile delinquents should not be allowed to run the show, or trawl
(not directing that towards any of us in this sub conversation, but in
general). See enough spoilers in life.
Steve.
hughag...@yahoo.com
May 14, 2013, 1:53:22 AM5/14/13
to
hughag...@yahoo.com
May 15, 2013, 2:07:48 AM5/15/13
to
On Tuesday, May 14, 2013 7:33:30 PM UTC-7, Steve wrote:
He provided his name in various comp.lang.forth posts in the past, so I saw no problem in providing it here. Unless he provides info on where he lives, which is unlikely, then that info shouldn't be posted by anybody who knows it from some other source.
There was some guy posting on c.l.f. a while back (actually, I think he was scatter-posting on a variety of google groups sites) a link to his website that is totally focused on denouncing Mentifex (real name: Arthur Murray) as a pest. What was very creepy about him however, was that his website also provided Arthur's home address. The obvious implication was that he wanted somebody to go do some violence to the poor guy. I complained that this was stalking, and immediately the post disappeared from c.l.f.. It seems unlikely that the guy deleted his own post --- more likely, was that somebody at Google deleted it.
I think that Mentifex is more than a little bit weird, but I certainly don't want anything bad to happen to him. His posts don't harm anybody. He really believes in that "Singularity is Near" stuff, but that is just a harmless fantasy. I personally believe that the Apocalypse is Near, which is the opposite side of the coin, but I don't talk about that on c.l.f. (or, actually, anywhere), because I know that it doesn't help me make friends.
Anyway, this is just the internet --- none of this foolishness is important enough that any violence should be done out in the real world.
I think that Rickman is a jerk, but I don't really care about him. That business of accusing me of being homosexual was an obvious troll ploy --- this was at a time when I was complaining that Passaniti promoting homosexuality on c.l.f. was inappropriate, and Elizabeth Rather was denouncing me as being homophobic. Rickman hoped that he could give me this "cookie" and that I would "do a little dance" for him. It is all foolishness though --- nobody with any sense is going to believe him (for the record, I'm not homosexual) --- the only result of his stunt was that Alex McDonald banned me from the Win32Forth mailing list, but I didn't care anyway (Alex McDonald is a jerk too).
hughag...@yahoo.com
May 15, 2013, 5:24:11 AM5/15/13
to
On Wednesday, May 15, 2013 12:17:48 AM UTC-7, Steve wrote:
> hughaguila...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > There was some guy posting on c.l.f. a while back (actually, I think he was scatter-posting on a variety of google groups sites) a link to his website that is totally focused on denouncing Mentifex (real name: Arthur Murray) as a pest. What was very creepy about him however, was that his website also provided Arthur's home address. The obvious implication was that he wanted somebody to go do some violence to the poor guy. I complained that this was stalking, and immediately the post disappeared from c.l.f.. It seems unlikely that the guy deleted his own post --- more likely, was that somebody at Google deleted it.
>
> I don't read Arthur's stuff, but that is what originally got me into
> Forth, I could instantly see how I could make a natural language AI
> interface out of it for adventure gaming in around 1981 to 1983.
> But this is like I was saying, like me Arthur is being stalked and
> pestered by trolls. If you can't see how that is troll like
> behaviour, it is. Sure his stuff might be a bit ecstatic, a bit too
> often, but nothing to be offended about, you don't have to go into his
> thread. Im am not interested in stalking Rick, and I am categorically
> not interested in doing him violence, or in seeing it done. But I
> must be careful how I say it, because knowing how Rick alleges his
> brain works, he might read that statement and think I'm saying
> ssomething like I'll sic Adolph Hittler on him, on a leash like a
> poodle (everybody can laugh at that one). Already his read the
> statement that I don't want to come and see him like I do want to,
> eerie. He haa done this misunderstanding a lot in my threads.
>
> Hugh, you are not saying he had anything to do with that site?
> hughaguila...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > There was some guy posting on c.l.f. a while back (actually, I think he was scatter-posting on a variety of google groups sites) a link to his website that is totally focused on denouncing Mentifex (real name: Arthur Murray) as a pest. What was very creepy about him however, was that his website also provided Arthur's home address. The obvious implication was that he wanted somebody to go do some violence to the poor guy. I complained that this was stalking, and immediately the post disappeared from c.l.f.. It seems unlikely that the guy deleted his own post --- more likely, was that somebody at Google deleted it.
>
> I don't read Arthur's stuff, but that is what originally got me into
> Forth, I could instantly see how I could make a natural language AI
> interface out of it for adventure gaming in around 1981 to 1983.
> But this is like I was saying, like me Arthur is being stalked and
> pestered by trolls. If you can't see how that is troll like
> behaviour, it is. Sure his stuff might be a bit ecstatic, a bit too
> often, but nothing to be offended about, you don't have to go into his
> thread. Im am not interested in stalking Rick, and I am categorically
> not interested in doing him violence, or in seeing it done. But I
> must be careful how I say it, because knowing how Rick alleges his
> brain works, he might read that statement and think I'm saying
> ssomething like I'll sic Adolph Hittler on him, on a leash like a
> poodle (everybody can laugh at that one). Already his read the
> statement that I don't want to come and see him like I do want to,
> eerie. He haa done this misunderstanding a lot in my threads.
>
> Hugh, you are not saying he had anything to do with that site?
No, I don't have any reason to believe that Rickman was involved in that. I was just mentioning that as an example of how things on the internet can get out of hand --- somebody implying a threat of violence against a harmless fool
There are a lot of people on the internet who have some personal agenda that they are pushing. Mentifex is an example of this, with his belief in the Singularity. For the most part, they do no harm (Mentifex is totally harmless), and they are totally ignored (it is very rare for Mentifex to get any response to his posts at all). Rickman is actually pretty harmless too, because he can also be ignored (although he actively tries to bait people, so you have to be careful not to get tricked into doing a little dance for him). For the most part, these free-lance trolls don't bother me at all.
What bothers me, is a troll who is "sponsored" by supposedly legitimate members. I'm referring to Passaniti, of course. He is clearly a troll, in that he has never said anything positive about anybody or any software, and every effort at discussing technical issues becomes ridiculous: his claim of Forth expertise is based on having written a Forth-like interpreter in Perl (Perl seems to be only language that he knows), and he thinks that lists are more efficient than trees, etc., etc.. The problem here is that he is sponsored by Elizabeth Rather, who is a pretty big wheel in the Forth community, representing Forth Inc.. When I complained that I was offended by Passaniti saying that my code "sucks," Elizabeth Rather responded by praising Passaniti's technical knowledge, denouncing me for being homophobic, and kill-filing me (since that time, every comment she has directed at me has been a denunciation and an encouragement to everybody to kill-file me).
The result is that most comp.lang.forth members realize that they can't just ignore Passaniti in the same way that they would ignore Rickman or Mentifex, because this would incur the wrath of Rather. To stay on E.R.'s good side, and avoid my fate, they are obliged to feed this troll. So, when Passaniti is attacking me, they join in (that was really what Rickman was doing with his homosexual accusation). Also, they play make-believe with Passaniti, pretending that his inane technical comments are actually profound (the wisdom of the fool?). I have seen Bernd Payson do this many times --- carry on lengthy discussions about FPGA or whatnot with Passaniti, despite the fact that Passaniti obviously knows nothing of the subject. This really drags down the whole Forth community. Considering that Forth programming is pretty much the only skill that I have, when the Forth community gets dragged through the mud, I take that personally.
Now Passaniti has disappeared. Maybe he is in jail, or he just decided to go be gay somewhere else, or whatever. Comp.lang.forth has really settled down quite a lot since he has disappeared. Yea! As for Rickman etc.; they cause some trouble, but not much, because they don't have any sponsor and nobody really feels obliged to respond to them.
I wonder though: if Passaniti doesn't return at all, will he be replaced by someone similar? Will Elizabeth Rather begin praising Rickman, for example, so that he can become her new pet? I hope not! But she does seem to need somebody to attack her enemies for her. What if somebody points out one of the many problems with SwiftForth and/or with the ANS-Forth standard? E.R. needs an attack-poodle to chase the critic away. She doesn't want to do it herself though, because it would make her look bad to go around telling people that they "suck" --- she needs an agent to do it for her.
There are a lot of people on the internet who have some personal agenda that they are pushing. Mentifex is an example of this, with his belief in the Singularity. For the most part, they do no harm (Mentifex is totally harmless), and they are totally ignored (it is very rare for Mentifex to get any response to his posts at all). Rickman is actually pretty harmless too, because he can also be ignored (although he actively tries to bait people, so you have to be careful not to get tricked into doing a little dance for him). For the most part, these free-lance trolls don't bother me at all.
What bothers me, is a troll who is "sponsored" by supposedly legitimate members. I'm referring to Passaniti, of course. He is clearly a troll, in that he has never said anything positive about anybody or any software, and every effort at discussing technical issues becomes ridiculous: his claim of Forth expertise is based on having written a Forth-like interpreter in Perl (Perl seems to be only language that he knows), and he thinks that lists are more efficient than trees, etc., etc.. The problem here is that he is sponsored by Elizabeth Rather, who is a pretty big wheel in the Forth community, representing Forth Inc.. When I complained that I was offended by Passaniti saying that my code "sucks," Elizabeth Rather responded by praising Passaniti's technical knowledge, denouncing me for being homophobic, and kill-filing me (since that time, every comment she has directed at me has been a denunciation and an encouragement to everybody to kill-file me).
The result is that most comp.lang.forth members realize that they can't just ignore Passaniti in the same way that they would ignore Rickman or Mentifex, because this would incur the wrath of Rather. To stay on E.R.'s good side, and avoid my fate, they are obliged to feed this troll. So, when Passaniti is attacking me, they join in (that was really what Rickman was doing with his homosexual accusation). Also, they play make-believe with Passaniti, pretending that his inane technical comments are actually profound (the wisdom of the fool?). I have seen Bernd Payson do this many times --- carry on lengthy discussions about FPGA or whatnot with Passaniti, despite the fact that Passaniti obviously knows nothing of the subject. This really drags down the whole Forth community. Considering that Forth programming is pretty much the only skill that I have, when the Forth community gets dragged through the mud, I take that personally.
Now Passaniti has disappeared. Maybe he is in jail, or he just decided to go be gay somewhere else, or whatever. Comp.lang.forth has really settled down quite a lot since he has disappeared. Yea! As for Rickman etc.; they cause some trouble, but not much, because they don't have any sponsor and nobody really feels obliged to respond to them.
I wonder though: if Passaniti doesn't return at all, will he be replaced by someone similar? Will Elizabeth Rather begin praising Rickman, for example, so that he can become her new pet? I hope not! But she does seem to need somebody to attack her enemies for her. What if somebody points out one of the many problems with SwiftForth and/or with the ANS-Forth standard? E.R. needs an attack-poodle to chase the critic away. She doesn't want to do it herself though, because it would make her look bad to go around telling people that they "suck" --- she needs an agent to do it for her.
> > accusing me of being homosexual was an obvious troll ploy --- this was at a time when I was complaining that Passaniti promoting homosexuality on c.l.f. was inappropriate, and Elizabeth Rather was denouncing me as being homophobic. Rickman hoped that he could give me this "cookie" and that I would "do a little dance" for him. It is all foolishness though --- nobody with any sense is going to believe him (for the record, I'm not homosexual) --- the only result of his stunt was that Alex McDonald banned me from the Win32Forth mailing list, but I didn't care anyway (Alex McDonald is a jerk too).
>
> Sorry to hear that, want to be in my mailing list/forum when it comes
> around? You sound like a nice guy. You know, we could all go private
> moderated forth board and ditch these......
>
> We could even change thus to a moderated news group, and I could
> moderate and set all troll accounts to go through the spam folder
>
> Sorry to hear that, want to be in my mailing list/forum when it comes
> around? You sound like a nice guy. You know, we could all go private
> moderated forth board and ditch these......
>
> We could even change thus to a moderated news group, and I could
> moderate and set all troll accounts to go through the spam folder
hughag...@gmail.com
Feb 4, 2017, 10:38:44 AM2/4/17
to
On Monday, May 13, 2013 at 10:53:22 PM UTC-7, hughag...@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Monday, May 13, 2013 8:07:20 PM UTC-7, rickman wrote:
> > On 5/13/2013 5:48 PM, Roberto Waltman wrote:
> > > rickman wrote:
> > >> No offense taken. I just didn't know.
> >
> > > I assume Fred meant the trollino.
> >
> > He doesn't bother me so much as others. But I realize I have been
> > feeding him again. It's just that he's so *cute* when you give him a
> > cookie and he does the little dance.
>
> On Monday, May 13, 2013 8:07:20 PM UTC-7, rickman wrote:
> > On 5/13/2013 5:48 PM, Roberto Waltman wrote:
> > > rickman wrote:
> > >> No offense taken. I just didn't know.
> >
> > > I assume Fred meant the trollino.
> >
> > He doesn't bother me so much as others. But I realize I have been
> > feeding him again. It's just that he's so *cute* when you give him a
> > cookie and he does the little dance.
>
> Rickman is a troll. As long as I can remember, he has been taunting people, trying to get an emotional response out of them. He accused me of being homosexual over on the win32forth mailing list. I suppose he was trying to get me to do a "little dance" for him.
>
> I think Rickman taunts people on the internet because he doesn't have any pride, and he just wants to drag people down to his own level, to prove that he is not the only loser in the world. I consider Rickman to be in roughly the same category as Passaniti. Neither of them ever post any Forth code, or appear to have ever written a Forth program, but both claim to be great experts on Forth. That is typical troll behavior.
Recently we had this thread:
>
> I think Rickman taunts people on the internet because he doesn't have any pride, and he just wants to drag people down to his own level, to prove that he is not the only loser in the world. I consider Rickman to be in roughly the same category as Passaniti. Neither of them ever post any Forth code, or appear to have ever written a Forth program, but both claim to be great experts on Forth. That is typical troll behavior.
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.lang.forth/6tDnHmi9pl0
that contained this post:
On Thursday, February 2, 2017 at 7:55:12 PM UTC-7, rickman wrote:
> I read your Wikipedia talk page entries for the slide rule page. Funny
> how much that worked out like things do here. What do you think is the
> common connection? Does the Forth community control Wikipedia as well?
Notice how Rickman equates himself with the "Forth community" above. This is very similar to how a politician will never say, "I want xxx!," but will always say: "The people want xxx!"
I think that the common thread is that the internet is full of trolls --- people who enjoy finding somebody who is proud of some accomplishment, and belittling that accomplishment, because it is: "so *cute* when you give him a cookie and he does the little dance."
My slide-rule software worked pretty well --- it generated CNC gcode that could be used in a milling machine with a scribe to etch black-anodized aluminum, and it generated PostScript that could be used in photo-lithography of black-anodized aluminum --- this was described by the Wikipedia experts as "arts and crafts" in their explanation for why they would not include a link to my software in their external-links section.
The Wikipedia experts (who have never written any software and lack the math background needed to use a slide-rule) were just trying to make me "do the little dance." I gave up on Wikipedia because of this. I meant to remove all mention of my code from Wikipedia, but I didn't get around to doing so. Then I got attacked again:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.lang.forth/qqlp1gZnVic
At this time, I removed all mention of my code from Wikipedia --- everything that I do is "original research" --- original research is like original sin on Wikipedia; grounds for immediate removal from Wikipedia.
Now Rickman has found that old discussion in the archives of Wikipedia talk pages,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slide_rule
and he is beating me up for it, as if I still care. This was in a thread comparing CASE implementations --- I wrote <SWITCH recently and it was denounced as being worthless:
On Saturday, January 28, 2017 at 7:40:48 PM UTC-7, rickman wrote:
> I don't know why you consider a jump table to be so essential in a
> language.
What is the connection between my <SWITCH and my slide-rule program? Well, in both cases I have an accomplishment (some code that works) and this makes me a target for the trolls who think that it would be cute to belittle my accomplishment and make me do the little dance.
hughag...@gmail.com
Feb 4, 2017, 11:24:57 AM2/4/17
to
On Wednesday, May 15, 2013 at 12:28:31 AM UTC-7, Steve wrote:
> Does anybody know where Rick's FPGA forth chip designs are, it would
> be with having a look at?
Most likely, they don't exist.
> Does anybody know where Rick's FPGA forth chip designs are, it would
> be with having a look at?
I have noticed that there are a lot of people around who aren't good at anything. They can't program, they can't design circuit boards, they can't do nada --- so they become trolls.
A lot of times, a troll will claim to be a big expert on some esoteric subject. For example, Haskell is very esoteric. If somebody told me that he was a big Haskell expert, I wouldn't contradict him because I don't know anything about Haskell --- the guy has a high probability that anybody he talks to is like me in not knowing anything about Haskell and he will get away with his baloney --- by comparison, if he claimed to be a big expert on C he would quickly get caught because pretty much everybody knows C (even I know C, and my background mostly involves cab-driving).
Forth is similar to Haskell in that it is very esoteric. Any troll claiming to be a big expert on Forth has a high probability that anybody he talks to will not know anything about Forth and he will get away with his baloney. This is why comp.lang.forth is full of trolls --- Elizabeth Rather is the troll queen --- she has never posted any Forth code on comp.lang.forth except what she copied directly out of the "Starting Forth" book --- the reason why she gets away with this baloney is because the majority of big Forth experts on comp.lang.forth are also trolls, and trolls never attack other trolls; trolls only attack people with accomplishments because it is: "so *cute* when you give him a cookie and he does the little dance."
FPGA design is esoteric too. If somebody fakes up expertise on the ARM he will get caught pretty quick because a lot of people know how to build ARM-based circuit boards. By comparison, any troll claiming to be a big expert on FPGA design has a high probability that anybody he talks to will not know anything about FPGA design and he will get away with his baloney. I doubt that Rickman actually knows any more about FPGA design than he does about Forth, which is just what he read somewhere. I wouldn't contradict him though, because I don't know anything about FPGA design. He sounds like a fake though. He has repeatedly said that the design of the MiniForth (now known as the RACE) at Testra is the work of a few days that anybody with a modicum of FPGA knowledge could squeeze out. I don't think that is true. It took about 6 months at Testra, and about 6 months more to get the motion-control program working (the two projects were combined and the MiniForth got redesigned repeatedly as needed to make the motion-control program feasible, so it is not really possible to separate them). The only explanation for this disparity (one year compared to a few days) is that the guys at Testra are low-grade morons and Rickman is a genius --- or maybe that Rickman is just blowing hot air and he has never actually done an FPGA design --- it has to be one or the other!
Way back when I was working at Testra I bought a book on VHDL for $40 (maybe $60 in today's money). At the time, Testra was using their own HDL written in Forth to build the MiniForth on the Lattice isp1048 PLD, but there was vague talk about upgrading to an FPGA in the future to get better performance (although at a higher cost per chip). This is why I wanted to learn VHDL. Unfortunately, VHDL was over my head, so nothing came of that. After I left, Testra did port their code from their homebrew HDL to VHDL and switch to an FPGA (by this time the cost of FPGA chips had gone down a lot, plus the PLDs had become obsolete) --- they also changed the name from MiniForth to RACE --- the MiniForth name originated very early in the project when the goal was a B16-like processor with only 32 instructions, but the processor became much more powerful over time, so the name "MiniForth" became increasingly inappropriate.
Right now, I would rather have an extra $40 in my wallet, than have that VHDL book in a box in my storage unit (packed in with the hundreds of other books that I have bought over the years, including many on micro-biology which is totally over my head but which seems quite fascinating). If I got the book out though, and read through it again, I could become a big VHDL expert on the internet similar to Rickman --- totally fake it! --- the probability is low that I would encounter anybody who knows enough about VHDL to feel confident in contradicting me. Nobody would notice that my "knowledge" was derived from reading one book and was not based on any actual experience. Nobody would say: "The emperor has no clothes!"
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