test post
Mike Hore
Charlie Springer
(in article <gdjh8i$758$1...@aioe.org>):
> Just testing here...
Still here Mike.
Fred McKenzie
Charlie Springer <R...@regnirps.com> wrote:
> Still here Mike.
Mike & Charlie-
Otherwise there would be no activity, as far as I can tell!
Somewhere, still packed away from a move several years ago, I have a
copy of "Starting Forth". When I first got it, I found its examples
worked on a VIC-20 program I had at the time. Can anyone tell me if the
Macintosh still has a built-in Forth program that would run those
examples?
Fred
The Tinkerer
If you have a PowerPC Macintosh, the boot monitor Open Firmware has a
forth interpreter for interacting with the user. About six months ago I
get myself started with forth using OpenFirmware's command line and the
more recent online edition of Starting Forth. Not all the examples work,
but most of them do or can be made to with a little poking and prodding.
As you have had previous experience, you should have no trouble getting
past those roadblocks. For realy old Macs (PPC 601 and earlier) you
might need a separate computer to use as a serial terminal, but more
recent PPC Macs come up direct on the local computer screen.
To start OpenFirmware, hold down the Cmd-Option-O-F key combo as you
start up. The forth prompt looks like ' 0 > ', 0 being the initial stack
depth.
The stuff about screen-size blocks ("screens" of data) is well and truly
obsolete. It has been replaced by files as used by the normal target (or
host) operating system.
The newer Intel Macs have a different boot monitor which I understand
does not use forth.
Stan Barr
> Fred McKenzie <fm...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > In article <0001HW.C54725FE...@news.nw.centurytel.net>,
> > Charlie Springer <R...@regnirps.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Still here Mike.
> >
> > Mike & Charlie-
> >
> > Otherwise there would be no activity, as far as I can tell!
> >
> > Somewhere, still packed away from a move several years ago, I have a
> > copy of "Starting Forth". When I first got it, I found its examples
> > worked on a VIC-20 program I had at the time. Can anyone tell me if the
> > Macintosh still has a built-in Forth program that would run those
> > examples?
> >
>
> If you have a PowerPC Macintosh, the boot monitor Open Firmware has a
> forth interpreter for interacting with the user. About six months ago I
> get myself started with forth using OpenFirmware's command line and the
> more recent online edition of Starting Forth.
I've been doing this too, on an old Sun sparcstation20 which also runs
Open Firmware. There's a good reference to Open Firmware online
somewhere, googls will find it.
Is there a Forth for Intel Macs? I'm about to get an iMac.
--
Stan Barr pla...@dial.pipex.com
Charles Davis
When you go to the Intel Mac, you lose 'Open Firmware'. ;-(
Chuck D.
Mike Hore
Hi all, good to have a thread going here!! My news server was having
problems, but the one I'm on now is doing a good job. My ISP doesn't do
news so I have to find other places.
Anyway, I'm interested that Intel Macs have axed Open Firmware. Though
only of academic interest to me, since I love the PowerPC and have no
plans to ever move to Intel. Whenever I upgrade, it'll probably be via
ebay and to a bigger/faster PowerPC Mac.
(My dislike of the Intel architecture is deep and intense - and hard to
put into polite words...)
Cheers, Mike
---------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Hore mike_h...@OVE.invalid.aapt.net.au
---------------------------------------------------------------
The Tinkerer
I didn't exactly upgrade. I like my eMac so much, I bought a second one
thru eBay. The only upgrade was from USB 1.1 to USB 2.0 :-) I started
out wanting to learn Macintosh from the ground up, but never got past
Open Firmware. I intended adding a Machine Language Monitor similar to
the ones on the old 8-bit Commodores (C64, C128 etc). Nostalgia, I
guess. I got as far as writing a trial version of a PPC disassembler,
learning beginner-level forth in the process.
Then the need to stay solvent kicked in. My project has been stalled
ever since. < sigh > Maybe I'll be able to pick up the threads when I
retire ...
Tink
Charles Davis
They didn't really 'Axe OF', the x86 system programming never had it to
start with.
> Though
> only of academic interest to me, since I love the PowerPC and have no
> plans to ever move to Intel. Whenever I upgrade, it'll probably be via
> ebay and to a bigger/faster PowerPC Mac.
>
> (My dislike of the Intel architecture is deep and intense - and hard to
> put into polite words...)
I can explain mine!!!
I started 'machine code programming' with the Motorola 6800.
The 'Memory Map usage' was so much more understandable than the 8080,
(and children) that it can be best described as the difference between a
cold drink on a hot day, and 'Brain Freeze' caused by 'to fast & too
much' slushie.
It was litteraly too much 'obtuse misdirection' to do things hat were
relatively simple for the Motorola chips.
Chuck D.
Stan Barr
> Anyway, I'm interested that Intel Macs have axed Open Firmware. Though
> only of academic interest to me, since I love the PowerPC and have no
> plans to ever move to Intel.
I'll have to go Intel :-( I need an up-to-date machine for graphics
work. I wonder if there's any truth in the rumour that Apple have
been playing woth the Cell processor? That _would_ be interesitng.
Incidentally, TerraSoft, of Yellow Dog Linux fame, have just launched
a dual G5 machine aimed at PPC developers. Runs dual 2.5GHz dual-
core 970MP processors, 8x667MHz DDR RAM slots for up to 32Gb.
Looks quite interesting - if you have the money!
>
> (My dislike of the Intel architecture is deep and intense - and hard to
> put into polite words...)
I spent a lot of time writing sruff in assembler to run under MSDOS
and I have the same opinion!
--
Stan Barr pla...@dial.pipex.com
Charlie Springer
will pull the trigger one of these days. I'm working right now from an 800
MHz accelerated G4. There is an Intel Mac Mini here but I don't do any
programming on it except to use X-Code's iPhone/iTouch SDK (which is ARM) and
a plain ARM assembler/compiler.
Meanwhile you might want to take a look at the IBM Cell details since it is
basically a G5 with extra vector processors (I think that describes it). The
Sony PlayStation is often networked in 8 or 16 units to get a Cell
Supercomputer.
Why would you care? Apple bought a fab a while back that used to make PowerPC
chips. Not enough? IBM is mad at Apple over some kind of undisclosed
violation of a non-competition agreement. Hmmmm.
A Quad Cell system (Or Octo Cell system!) would totally smoke the best Intel
has to offer.
I still want to get you interested in ARM7 and ARM9 systems. They are giant
32 bit 6502's with 16 accumulators. I'll be selling some by next week
(www.andahammer.com) that are 400MHz with 64 MB RAM and 64 MB Flash and all
he goodies. Linux, WinCE, etc. it needs a good Forth. I am working on one to
execute stand alone and see how much of the I/O I can write myself, USB, SD
card, LCD, etc. Say the word and I'll send you a card with display.
Cheers,
Charlie Springer
Mike Hore
> ...
> I still want to get you interested in ARM7 and ARM9 systems. They are giant
> 32 bit 6502's with 16 accumulators. I'll be selling some by next week
> (www.andahammer.com) that are 400MHz with 64 MB RAM and 64 MB Flash and all
> he goodies. Linux, WinCE, etc. it needs a good Forth. I am working on one to
> execute stand alone and see how much of the I/O I can write myself, USB, SD
> card, LCD, etc. Say the word and I'll send you a card with display.
>
Well in another life maybe I could be tempted :-)
But really I don't have time. I've sort-of retired (which means I don't
get paid for what I do) -- and I'm involved in a Bible translation
project in an Aboriginal community where I've been involved for 32 years
now -- anyway when I'm not doing that I'm quite happy to be as far from
the computer as possible!! :-)
Cheers, Mike.
Charlie Springer
(in article <gg612k$nvd$1...@aioe.org>):
> Well in another life maybe I could be tempted :-)
> But really I don't have time. I've sort-of retired (which means I don't
> get paid for what I do) -- and I'm involved in a Bible translation
> project in an Aboriginal community where I've been involved for 32 years
> now -- anyway when I'm not doing that I'm quite happy to be as far from
> the computer as possible!! :-)
IIRC Bible translation is one of Donald Knuth's big passions. I'm trying to
retire a bit myself, though the new web store will keep me pretty busy (I
hope). I have a big piece of waterfront property for sale (home page of
regnirps.com) and a couple of airplanes I want to build. The economy is
fighting me every inch of the way.
One of these little units is slightly bigger than an iPhone and has a nice
little display and touch pad, Linux, Qtopia desktop, and a slot for an 8 gig
SD card. Hmmm. Pocket size searchable Bible platform? I think there is room
for a shelf full of concordances. Hmmm ;-)
-- Charlie