OT: Traffic Signals in New Mexico
William M. Klein
http://www.state.nm.us/tax/pubs/mvddrvrs.htm#Traffic%20Signals
which seems (official to me) indicating that New Mexico traffic signals are the
"same as elsewhere" in the US.
However, the unofficial site:
http://freespace.virgin.net/john.cletheroe/usa_can/driving/lights.htm
Does state,
"Occasionally the three lights can be arranged horizontally instead of
vertically. As far as I know this design is only used in New Mexico and Texas.
If the lights are arranged horizontally then red will be on the left, yellow in
the middle and green on the right."
YMMV <G>
--
Bill Klein
wmklein <at> ix.netcom.com
jce
news:3%wPe.169780$oS5....@fe06.news.easynews.com...
I did some research and found some truly bizarre rules. (It is state level
but as of 1995 all 50 states had RTOR laws). 43 States have LTOR laws -
but I am not sure which 7 don't....I know Florida does :-)
Usually Right At Red is allowed unless there is a sign that says "no right
at red"; however, I then read if the intersection is in a city with a
population of more than 1 million it's the opposite - it's no Right at Red
unless it's designated as "right on red". I thought this might be confusing
because it doesn't say "right on green" :-)
I also found that the law is written you "shall" turn right at red if the
road is clear. Shall would mean mandatory. It would therefore be "impeding
traffic" if you didn't turn right on red and someone was waiting behind you
and the road was clear.
This was in New Jersey Traffic Code Statute: "[drivers] intending to turn
right at an intersection where traffic is controlled by a traffic signal
shall, unless an official sign of the State, municipality or county
authority having jurisdiction over the intersection prohibits the same,
proceed to make the turn""
Then I saw Red Arrow lights...apparently these are just red lights. You can
(or should I say shall) turn right on red even if it is a right red arrow.
And these people cannot understand ROUNDABOUTS!!?!?! ;-)
What is the rule in the case where you approach a right turn with a red
light and there is a sign that says "STOP HERE ON RED". I assume you can
"stop" and then go ahead cross the track and make a right turn (after
STOPPING again at the line)....I guess this is ok as I was tailed by a cop
when I did it - though he may have been on a donut run and not cared too
much (it was about 2 am)....
JCE
LX-i
Lots of places in Florida have them horizontally - there's more of the
signal to be attached to the pole, so its more resilient during periods
of high wind (to which Florida is particularly vulnerable).
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~ / \ / ~ Live from Montgomery, AL! ~
~ / \/ o ~ ~
~ / /\ - | ~ daniel@thebelowdomain ~
~ _____ / \ | ~ http://www.djs-consulting.com ~
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~ !O M-- V PS+ PE++ Y? !PGP t+ 5? X+ R* tv b+ DI++ D+ G- e ~
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
HeyBub
In addition to horizontal/vertical confusion, there's also the location of
the signal.
Near right corner
Far left corner
Far right corner
Overhead, middle of intersection
Overhead, lane-specific
etc.
Howard Brazee
On 26-Aug-2005, "jce" <defau...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> And these people cannot understand ROUNDABOUTS!!?!?! ;-)
Have you seen "Michigan left turns"? It's not uncommon in Michigan to have
divided roads that have U turns after the intersection. You go through the
light, and then turn around to turn right instead of turning left at the
intersection.
Rick Smith
"LX-i" <lxi...@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:93adb$430f032f$45491c57$10...@KNOLOGY.NET...
[snip]
> Lots of places in Florida have them horizontally - there's more of the
> signal to be attached to the pole, so its more resilient during periods
> of high wind (to which Florida is particularly vulnerable).
I trust this was not an oblique reference to the digestive
problems of the elderly (to which Florida is particularly
vulnerable).
While watching coverage of Hurricane Katrina, I noticed
horizontal traffic lights in Ft. Lauderdale. They did seem to
be quite steady in what might be traffic light breaking wind.
Donald Tees
Yes, but those lights normally hang vertically.
;<)
On the subject of colour-blindness, here is an interesting story told to
me by my father.
Apparently, during at the begining of WWII, colour blindness was
automatic grounds for a medical ban from air crew positions in the air
force.
However, as the war progressed, they discovered an interesting
phenomena. People with colour blindness tended not to notice camoflage
... that is, they simply saw things the same as they always did. While
those with normal sight were fooled by it, those with colour blindness
were not.
This resulted in the war office going back through the medical records
and drafting all those with colour blindness into air crew to serve as
bombadiers.
I have absolutely no documentary evidence that the story is true, but as
I said, it was told to me by my dad 25 years or so ago, and he was there
at the time.
Donald
Russell
@news20.bellglobal.com:
I have heard similar stories reguarding people that have had
cataract surgery. Apparently at least some of them can see into the
ultraviolet range. The Navy would use them to help spot people on shore
that were using ultraviolet lamps to signal with. Normal people would
see almost nothing.
docd...@panix.com
Russell <rws020...@comcast.net> wrote:
[snip]
> I have heard similar stories reguarding people that have had
>cataract surgery.
[dialect humor alert!]
[what follows is an example of linguistic parody called 'dialect humor';
in these days of modern time some have found it to be offensive]
[continue at your own risk]
'Doctah, what long with my eyes? I have tloubre see things!'
'Mr Yamamato, you have cataracts.'
'No no, I have Rincorn Continentar!'
... no wonder dialect humor died, aye.
DD
Michael Wojcik
There are a bunch of those in the East Lansing area, so that traffic
from Michigan State doesn't back up behind left-turning vehicles.
One time I was headed north on Harrison, which is divided, and wanted
to reverse direction. I came to the intersection with Trowbridge.
The left turn there is a Michigan left, so I had to turn right onto
Trowbridge (also divided), reverse direction, and come back to the
intersection - where of course it turned out that the left from that
direction was *also* a Michigan left, so I had to turn right - back
onto Harrison northbound. I was able to reverse direction a bit
further along Harrison, of course, but the turns onto, on, and off
Trowbridge were completely unnecessary, as was the second wait at the
light.
In Massachusetts, there are a number of "teacup turns" where a major
road comes to an intersection with a side road on one side only (ie,
a T-junction). If you're travelling N, say, on the main road and
want to go W (left) on the side road, you actually turn right
slightly before the intersection onto a semicircular road that brings
you around perpendicular to the main road, which you can then cross
when the light changes. The semicircular road is the "handle" of the
"teacup".
It's a simple design, but if you're hoping to make a left turn and
don't know about the teacup arrangement before you get to the
intersection, you'll be in the wrong lane.
--
Michael Wojcik michael...@microfocus.com
He smiled and let his gaze fall to hers, so that her cheek began to
glow. Ecstatically she waited until his mouth slowly neared her own.
She knew only one thing: rdoeniadtrgove niardgoverdgovnrdgog.
Howard Brazee
On 26-Aug-2005, mwo...@newsguy.com (Michael Wojcik) wrote:
> It's a simple design, but if you're hoping to make a left turn and
> don't know about the teacup arrangement before you get to the
> intersection, you'll be in the wrong lane.
Of course this isn't uncommon at all when you approach freeways wondering which
lane to be in when you want to turn left.
ep...@juno.com
Michael Wojcik wrote:
> In article <den62t$hug$1...@peabody.colorado.edu>, "Howard Brazee" <how...@brazee.net> writes:
> > On 26-Aug-2005, "jce" <defau...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > And these people cannot understand ROUNDABOUTS!!?!?! ;-)
> >
> > Have you seen "Michigan left turns"? It's not uncommon in Michigan to have
> > divided roads that have U turns after the intersection. You go through the
> > light, and then turn around to turn right instead of turning left at the
> > intersection.
>
> There are a bunch of those in the East Lansing area, so that traffic
> from Michigan State doesn't back up behind left-turning vehicles.
>
> One time I was headed north on Harrison, which is divided, and wanted
> to reverse direction. I came to the intersection with Trowbridge.
> The left turn there is a Michigan left, so I had to turn right onto
> Trowbridge (also divided), reverse direction, and come back to the
> intersection - where of course it turned out that the left from that
> direction was *also* a Michigan left, so I had to turn right - back
> onto Harrison northbound. I was able to reverse direction a bit
> further along Harrison, of course, but the turns onto, on, and off
> Trowbridge were completely unnecessary, as was the second wait at the
> light.
>
> --
> Michael Wojcik michael...@microfocus.com
What a small world! I live in Michigan and I have driven through that
very intersection on my way to a convention in Lansing. Now there are
an awful lot of things about Michigan highways that make no sense at
all, but having a divided highway with a turn around is a vast
improvement over having a center turn lane in the middle of an
un-divided highway.
Note: Michigan has only two seasons - winter and road construction. If
you are from the U.P. [only the weather forecasters ever say Upper
Michigan....] they are winter and "mighty poor sledding". :-).
LX-i
> Usually Right At Red is allowed unless there is a sign that says "no right
> at red"; however, I then read if the intersection is in a city with a
> population of more than 1 million it's the opposite - it's no Right at Red
> unless it's designated as "right on red". I thought this might be confusing
> because it doesn't say "right on green" :-)
Are there signs to let you know that you're in a one-million-plus city?
As a visitor, how would one know? :)
LX-i
> "LX-i" <lxi...@netscape.net> wrote in message
> news:93adb$430f032f$45491c57$10...@KNOLOGY.NET...
> [snip]
>
>>Lots of places in Florida have them horizontally - there's more of the
>>signal to be attached to the pole, so its more resilient during periods
>>of high wind (to which Florida is particularly vulnerable).
>
> I trust this was not an oblique reference to the digestive
> problems of the elderly (to which Florida is particularly
> vulnerable).
Not intentionally... :)
> While watching coverage of Hurricane Katrina, I noticed
> horizontal traffic lights in Ft. Lauderdale. They did seem to
> be quite steady in what might be traffic light breaking wind.
Cool. I hope she stays east - I'm not really ready to take down that
trampoline again... :(
LX-i
> [dialect humor alert!]
>
> [what follows is an example of linguistic parody called 'dialect humor';
> in these days of modern time some have found it to be offensive]
>
> [continue at your own risk]
>
> 'Doctah, what long with my eyes? I have tloubre see things!'
>
> 'Mr Yamamato, you have cataracts.'
>
> 'No no, I have Rincorn Continentar!'
>
> ... no wonder dialect humor died, aye.
Not completely dead - did you see Team America World Police? (Kim Jong
Il's character is full of it - in more ways than one!)
Rick Smith
> Rick Smith wrote:
[snip]
> > While watching coverage of Hurricane Katrina, I noticed
> > horizontal traffic lights in Ft. Lauderdale. They did seem to
> > be quite steady in what might be traffic light breaking wind.
>
> Cool. I hope she stays east - I'm not really ready to take down that
> trampoline again... :(
There seems to be a good deal of uncertainty (or should
that be doubt) about the ultimate track; but at this time
the discussion is of a Cat 3 or 4 coming ashore just
southwest of your location on Monday.
I had noticed, in television interviews last year, that many
hoped the hurricanes to go elsewhere; but none who
hoped the hurricanes to dissipate. To put things into
perspective: If Katrina stays east of your location, it will
be closer to my location.
jce
> docd...@panix.com wrote:
>> [dialect humor alert!]
>>
>> [what follows is an example of linguistic parody called 'dialect humor';
>> in these days of modern time some have found it to be offensive]
>>
>> [continue at your own risk]
>>
>> 'Doctah, what long with my eyes? I have tloubre see things!'
>>
>> 'Mr Yamamato, you have cataracts.'
>>
>> 'No no, I have Rincorn Continentar!'
>>
>> ... no wonder dialect humor died, aye.
>
> Not completely dead - did you see Team America World Police? (Kim Jong
> Il's character is full of it - in more ways than one!)
Fuck yeah!
You are worthress Arec Bardwin
You are worthress Arec Bardwin
You have faiwred in every way
and now my stock in you has fawren
Your career is stawrin'
and you're worthress Arec Bardwin
I heard that China was very surprised that there was such demand for Viagra
in the US until they discovered we only have elections every 4 years.
JCE
docd...@panix.com
LX-i <lxi...@netscape.net> wrote:
>docd...@panix.com wrote:
[snip]
>> ... no wonder dialect humor died, aye.
>
>Not completely dead - did you see Team America World Police? (Kim Jong
>Il's character is full of it - in more ways than one!)
I tried to watch it... but about halfway through I thought 'hey! wouldn't
it be better to be doing Something Else?'... so I did.
DD
Clark Morris
>William M. Klein wrote:
>> After a "brief" Google search, I found:
>>
>> http://www.state.nm.us/tax/pubs/mvddrvrs.htm#Traffic%20Signals
>>
>> which seems (official to me) indicating that New Mexico traffic signals are the
>> "same as elsewhere" in the US.
>>
>> However, the unofficial site:
>>
>> http://freespace.virgin.net/john.cletheroe/usa_can/driving/lights.htm
>>
>> Does state,
>>
>> "Occasionally the three lights can be arranged horizontally instead of
>> vertically. As far as I know this design is only used in New Mexico and Texas.
>> If the lights are arranged horizontally then red will be on the left, yellow in
>> the middle and green on the right."
>
>Lots of places in Florida have them horizontally - there's more of the
>signal to be attached to the pole, so its more resilient during periods
>of high wind (to which Florida is particularly vulnerable).
I know that New Jersey has horizontal traffic lights matching the
above specifications in many parts of the state.
HeyBub
They sure don't have traffic lights, in any orientation, on the border.
LX-i
> "LX-i" <lxi...@netscape.net> wrote in message
> news:399e$430f8b6d$45491c57$17...@KNOLOGY.NET...
>
>>Rick Smith wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
>>>While watching coverage of Hurricane Katrina, I noticed
>>>horizontal traffic lights in Ft. Lauderdale. They did seem to
>>>be quite steady in what might be traffic light breaking wind.
>>
>>Cool. I hope she stays east - I'm not really ready to take down that
>>trampoline again... :(
>
>
> There seems to be a good deal of uncertainty (or should
> that be doubt) about the ultimate track; but at this time
> the discussion is of a Cat 3 or 4 coming ashore just
> southwest of your location on Monday.
Yep - once again, the center of the cone goes straight through Montgomery.
> I had noticed, in television interviews last year, that many
> hoped the hurricanes to go elsewhere; but none who
> hoped the hurricanes to dissipate. To put things into
> perspective: If Katrina stays east of your location, it will
> be closer to my location.
Heh - well, I certainly don't wish a hurricane on you (or anyone else,
for that matter). The sentiment was "I hope it goes away" -
particularly, living on base, I was hoping to avoid the overkill safety
measures they employ. (Granted, for Ivan, they weren't overkill - for
Dennis, they were *extreme* overkill.)
Dennis was the biggest non-event of the year - we had to get all our
crap put up, then when it *didn't* hit Montgomery the way they were
expecting, we had to be at work at our normal times. Nevermind that
they gave us duty time to get our grills, lawn furniture, and large
outside toys put up - but they wouldn't give us until noon or something
on Monday to put everything back outside. :(
It's a shame that they don't let enlisted folks be commanders...
LX-i
>
> I heard that China was very surprised that there was such demand for Viagra
> in the US until they discovered we only have elections every 4 years.
hah! :)
LX-i
I was quite surprised at how much blood-and-guts can come out of a
wooden puppet - who knew!
docd...@panix.com
LX-i <lxi...@netscape.net> wrote:
>docd...@panix.com wrote:
>> In article <a6b29$430f8c50$45491c57$17...@KNOLOGY.NET>,
>> LX-i <lxi...@netscape.net> wrote:
[snip]
>>>Not completely dead - did you see Team America World Police? (Kim Jong
>>>Il's character is full of it - in more ways than one!)
>>
>> I tried to watch it... but about halfway through I thought 'hey! wouldn't
>> it be better to be doing Something Else?'... so I did.
>
>I was quite surprised at how much blood-and-guts can come out of a
>wooden puppet - who knew!
Those who have studied the arcane art of Special Effects, perhaps.
DD
Pete Dashwood
Daniel,
I didn't realise you are in danger from Katrina.
Some of our channels here run direct feeds from the US and UK after midnight
so we get Fox and BBC. I saw some Fox coverage of it last night.
Some comments below...
"LX-i" <lxi...@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:a983e$431084d0$45491c57$28...@KNOLOGY.NET...
> Rick Smith wrote:
>> "LX-i" <lxi...@netscape.net> wrote in message
>> news:399e$430f8b6d$45491c57$17...@KNOLOGY.NET...
>>
>>>Rick Smith wrote:
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>>>>While watching coverage of Hurricane Katrina, I noticed
>>>>horizontal traffic lights in Ft. Lauderdale. They did seem to
>>>>be quite steady in what might be traffic light breaking wind.
>>>
>>>Cool. I hope she stays east - I'm not really ready to take down that
>>>trampoline again... :(
>>
While tiresome, it is probably a better option than letting Katrina take it
down for you... :-)
>>
>> There seems to be a good deal of uncertainty (or should
>> that be doubt) about the ultimate track; but at this time
>> the discussion is of a Cat 3 or 4 coming ashore just
>> southwest of your location on Monday.
>
> Yep - once again, the center of the cone goes straight through Montgomery.
So, this is a fairly frequent event in Montgomery? It must be terrible for
everybody concerned.
Are the defence measures similar to those for tornadoes (get in the cellar
and hope the house is still there when it's over...)?
I saw on Fox something about a 'get clear' zone being around 5 hours. I
didn't really understand what it meant but it looked like if you didn't get
out within this time you wouldn't be able to move.
So do people simply pack up and go to another area? I could imagine huge
traffic congestion. And the disruption if you have to do this frequently
must be awful.
What do most people do to cope?
Why would people want to live in a town that is frequently hit by
hurricanes? I know you, personally, have no choice but what is the
attraction of Montgomery for the general population?
As I wrote that, I realised that here we live in a known earthquake zone
(the whole Pacific rim is pretty shaky and Wellington is built directly on a
fault line) but we still choose to be here, so maybe I answered my own
question. The fact is that, for us, the risk is considered acceptable. I
grew up in Wellington and remember a number of earthquakes, some of which
were 'serious'. As a child it is pretty exciting to be in school and see
things falling off the walls and shelves and the teacher going pale... :-)
Here in Tauranga, some years ago, we had an earthquake centred off shore
about 20 KMs which caused cracks in my concrete driveway and woke me from a
sound sleep (no mean feat :-)). But, because we have such sparse population
it is extremely rare for people to be killed or injured. (the last major
event with loss of life was in the 1930s in Napier, on the East Coast of the
North Island. I think I'd be much more reticient to live in a hurricane or
tornado zone than I would be to live here, so maybe conditioning (while
Kiwis are not blase about earthquakes, neither do we live in constant fear)
and upbringing shape how we assess these risks.
>
>> I had noticed, in television interviews last year, that many
>> hoped the hurricanes to go elsewhere; but none who
>> hoped the hurricanes to dissipate. To put things into
>> perspective: If Katrina stays east of your location, it will
>> be closer to my location.
>
> Heh - well, I certainly don't wish a hurricane on you (or anyone else, for
> that matter). The sentiment was "I hope it goes away" - particularly,
> living on base, I was hoping to avoid the overkill safety measures they
> employ. (Granted, for Ivan, they weren't overkill - for Dennis, they were
> *extreme* overkill.)
>
> Dennis was the biggest non-event of the year - we had to get all our crap
> put up, then when it *didn't* hit Montgomery the way they were expecting,
> we had to be at work at our normal times.
That's kindof unreasonable. But then, the military are not noted for their
reasonability... :-) I bet the brass who made that decision don't live in
Montgomery...
> Nevermind that they gave us duty time to get our grills, lawn furniture,
> and large outside toys put up - but they wouldn't give us until noon or
> something on Monday to put everything back outside. :(
>
> It's a shame that they don't let enlisted folks be commanders...
>
I understand they do...it just takes a lifetime. :-)
Finally, sincere best wishes for all people reading this who may be in the
path of a hurricane or tornado.
Maybe, in time, we'll find a way to encourage these systems to dissipate.
Pete.
jce
news:3nchgl...@individual.net...
> So do people simply pack up and go to another area? I could imagine huge
> traffic congestion. And the disruption if you have to do this frequently
> must be awful.
hurricane attractor and below sea level) are now North bound only....that
helps to reduce some of the congestion.
It's rather strange - the news here is rather subdued. I'd gotten kind of
used to the "your house will be trashed", "your life will be ruined", "look
at the death that could happen" of the last year or so. I guess as it's
heading to New Orleans the attitude is "look it's a hurricane in the gulf.
It's pretty strong and best of all it's not coming here." But even the
national weather channel is exercising restraint. It's this "calm before
the storm" that has me most worried...
A cat 4-5 storm near New Orleans could really cause major problems for that
city - I suppose that sentence is true for wherever it is that it finally
ends up.
Oh well, the temperature is 90 degrees in the gulf and Atlantic east of
Florida...we only have another 2+ months of this season left.......and we're
in better part of what has historically been a 20-30 year cycle of increased
hurricane activity - [and for the non-US Only readers] only this time with
global warming adding an unknown factor.
JCE
jce
I guess as it's heading to New Orleans the attitude is
I should have added some detail.
I guess as it's heading to New Orleans [and that isn't where you or we are]
the attitude is
"jce" <defau...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:LjaQe.66389$Oy2....@tornado.tampabay.rr.com...
LX-i
>
> Daniel,
>
> I didn't realise you are in danger from Katrina.
>
> Some of our channels here run direct feeds from the US and UK after midnight
> so we get Fox and BBC. I saw some Fox coverage of it last night.
The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA -
http://www.noaa.gov/ ) has a map of Katrina's 3-day projection. If you
look at that map (located at
http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/refresh/graphics_at2%2Bshtml/145105.shtml?3day?large
), where the "AL" is over Alabama, we're just up from the bottom tip of
the letter "L". It's overshot us for now, but that means that we're in
the upper-right quadrant, which is where the spin-up tornadoes are. :(
> "LX-i" <lxi...@netscape.net> wrote in message
> news:a983e$431084d0$45491c57$28...@KNOLOGY.NET...
>
>>
>>Yep - once again, the center of the cone goes straight through Montgomery.
>
> So, this is a fairly frequent event in Montgomery? It must be terrible for
> everybody concerned.
It didn't *used* to be frequent. In my first 6 1/2 years here, anytime
the coast got a hurricane, we'd just get a bunch of rain, and maybe a
little wind. Annoying, but not dangerous. Then, Ivan last year plowed
right through Montgomery, and was still a category 2 (if I remember
correctly) when it blew over my house. (The weirdest thing I think I've
seen in my life so far was being in the eye of that hurricane. Clear
skies, sunshine, the works - for about 15 minutes. Then back to the
pounding. It was like the hurricane took a smoke break! :> )
> Are the defence measures similar to those for tornadoes (get in the cellar
> and hope the house is still there when it's over...)?
Not really - at least this far inland (~170 miles), it's not going to
blow over a house or anything (although your roof may lose several
shingles - during Ivan, we lost the cover of the exhaust fan over the
stove, which is where some of the water came in the house). But yes,
once the winds come, you get into the basement or interior no-window
room, with your batteries, water, radio, etc., and wait it out.
During Ivan, we never lost power here on base (which was rare - most of
the city lost power anywhere from 8 hours to 3 days), and we never lost
cable. So, I had re-routed the cable modem and actually had it in the
bathroom (our only interior no-window room) with me, and had my computer
on its cart. (My family had gone elsewhere to escape it.) It should be
easier with the laptop this time - of course, we'll have to see what
path it takes. If it drifts much more west, we'll probably get away
with a few tornado warnings.
> I saw on Fox something about a 'get clear' zone being around 5 hours. I
> didn't really understand what it meant but it looked like if you didn't get
> out within this time you wouldn't be able to move.
>
> So do people simply pack up and go to another area? I could imagine huge
> traffic congestion. And the disruption if you have to do this frequently
> must be awful.
I'm not sure about a "get clear" zone, but they have ways of getting the
traffic through. For Ivan and Dennis, I-65 from Mobile (coast) to
Montgomery (170 miles inland) was made northbound on both sides of the
Interstate. Once everything was done, they did the reverse - both sides
became southbound for a time. It's still slow-going, but you'd be
surprised how much traffic you can clear.
(There are Federal highways that are still two-way, so folks needing to
come north can still do it - they just have to take what is now
considered a "back road"...)
> What do most people do to cope?
You got me. :) Being this far inland is usually enough.
> Why would people want to live in a town that is frequently hit by
> hurricanes? I know you, personally, have no choice but what is the
> attraction of Montgomery for the general population?
Well, like I said, this far inland is generally OK. And, in Florida,
homes are built expecting to have to weather (no pun intended) storms
like this. (Well, not *quite* like this - category 5's are few and far
between.) For Montgomery, there are folks that have grown up here;
there are folks that enjoy the history of the area (from Hank Williams
to Rosa Parks); some are here because of their jobs.
> I think I'd be much more reticient to live in a hurricane or
> tornado zone than I would be to live here, so maybe conditioning (while
> Kiwis are not blase about earthquakes, neither do we live in constant fear)
> and upbringing shape how we assess these risks.
You're conditioned to what you're around. The heat and humidity here in
the summer is stifling. The locals don't like it, but they're used to
it. Now, let the Air Force send some Maine or Michigan native here...
:) It's actually kind of funny to those of us who are used to it.
>>Dennis was the biggest non-event of the year - we had to get all our crap
>>put up, then when it *didn't* hit Montgomery the way they were expecting,
>>we had to be at work at our normal times.
>
> That's kindof unreasonable. But then, the military are not noted for their
> reasonability... :-) I bet the brass who made that decision don't live in
> Montgomery...
They do! He lives in one of the biggest houses on Montgomery. (And I
can talk about him because he's not the commander anymore... ;> ) I
have a feeling that *he* wasn't the one securing stuff around his house
- so he didn't realize the need to unsecure it.
> Finally, sincere best wishes for all people reading this who may be in the
> path of a hurricane or tornado.
>
> Maybe, in time, we'll find a way to encourage these systems to dissipate.
Heh - well, although they're quite inconvenient to us in our
technological age, they actually serve a purpose in the cycle of nature.
Doesn't make it any easier to watch, though.
LX-i
LX-i wrote:
> They do! He lives in one of the biggest houses on Montgomery.
And I *should* have wrote:
> They do! He lives in one of the biggest houses on Maxwell (AFB).
(yes, I know I just said "have wrote"...)
Joe Zitzelberger
LX-i <lxi...@netscape.net> wrote:
> > Why would people want to live in a town that is frequently hit by
> > hurricanes? I know you, personally, have no choice but what is the
> > attraction of Montgomery for the general population?
>
> Well, like I said, this far inland is generally OK. And, in Florida,
> homes are built expecting to have to weather (no pun intended) storms
> like this. (Well, not *quite* like this - category 5's are few and far
> between.) For Montgomery, there are folks that have grown up here;
> there are folks that enjoy the history of the area (from Hank Williams
> to Rosa Parks); some are here because of their jobs.
I have doubts about the houses in Florida being built to a higher
standard.
The entire "manufactured housing" industry in the southeast is still
working overtime to catch up on the replacement trailers needed after
last seasons Charlie, Francis and Ivan damage.
Florida has some pretty lame building codes considering their hurricane
exposure.
Pete Dashwood
Hi Daniel,
Thanks for the responses and the links. I found it very interesting. Always
interested in insight about other 'ways of life' and how people cope with
problems in different parts of the world.
Pete.
TOP POST - nothing new below.
"LX-i" <lxi...@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:6e94a$4311e04e$45491c57$27...@KNOLOGY.NET...
LX-i
Well, you just explained your own argument. People who put up trailers
in Florida deserve exactly what they get. :) I was referring to the
site-constructed houses I've seen - and, of course, businesses seem to
last as well.
> Florida has some pretty lame building codes considering their hurricane
> exposure.
Should they prohibit trailers? They'd probably be excommunicated from
the South if they did that! ;)
jce
news:joe_zitzelberger-4D...@ispnews.usenetserver.com...
Unfortunately, it's the codes not related to wind damage that have had the
problems. In a minor hurricane most _new_ homes will still have a roof due
to the additional supports around trusses. However, even in fine weather
most bathrooms fail when regular green board is used to house showers. If
your bathroom fails (the tiles fall off and your hand can go through the
wall) you are not protected as it's not "structural" damage - essentially
leaving you to find a bathroom rebuilder (of which there are many bad ones).
Another downside of the improvements has actually been an increase in mold
due to water damage. The new codes make the buildings much more air tight,
much more insulated which keeps moisture _in_ as well as _out_ thought the
mold epidemic is primarily driven by lawyers and the industry is totally
unregulated meaning that the idea is to scare everyone into thinking that
they don't have just "mold" on their bread caused by 90F and 90% humidity -
it's actually toxic mold and you may have cancer.
Then again, the bible says we should build homes on rocks and not on
Sand....One could argue that San Francisco has codes that don't protect its
houses against a massive earthquake....up in Wyoming, a giant magma
explosion will destroy homes....Poor New Orleans decided to exist BELOW sea
level with water all around.....The deserts of the SW are _too_
hot...Portugal has no water....the list goes on and on....I don't know
what's wrong with New Zealand so I will be looking into that one day I'm
sure...
JCE
Rick Smith
"Joe Zitzelberger" <joe_zitz...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:joe_zitzelberger-4D...@ispnews.usenetserver.com...
> The entire "manufactured housing" industry in the southeast is still
> working overtime to catch up on the replacement trailers needed after
> last seasons Charlie, Francis and Ivan damage.
H'm, "replacement trailers"? Trailering is the means
by which manufactured homes are moved. They are
homes not trailers. After being trailered to a site, the
home is raised; pylons are placed under its frame;
its trailering wheels and tongue are removed; anchors
are driven into the ground and the home's anchor
straps are attached to those anchors; water, sewer,
and electrical connections are made; then skirting is
added to conceal the underside. These steps must be
reversed to render the home capable of being trailered
again.
A properly anchored and shuttered manufactured home
can withstand winds of at least 125 mph.
Rick Smith
> Joe Zitzelberger wrote:
[snip]
> > The entire "manufactured housing" industry in the southeast is still
> > working overtime to catch up on the replacement trailers needed after
> > last seasons Charlie, Francis and Ivan damage.
>
> Well, you just explained your own argument. People who put up trailers
> in Florida deserve exactly what they get. :) I was referring to the
> site-constructed houses I've seen - and, of course, businesses seem to
> last as well.
[As I said elsewhere, trailering is the means by which
manufactured homes are moved. They are homes not
trailers.]
Daniel, your comment seems uncharitable. I happen to
live in a manufactured home in Florida because, for me,
it is comfortable, affordable housing. I certainly do not
deserve to have my home destroyed just because it was
manufactured and not site-constructed.
docd...@panix.com
Rick Smith <rick...@mfi.net> wrote:
>
>"LX-i" <lxi...@netscape.net> wrote in message
>news:3a564$43125871$45491c57$10...@KNOLOGY.NET...
[snip]
>> People who put up trailers
>> in Florida deserve exactly what they get. :)
[snip]
>Daniel, your comment seems uncharitable.
Oh, come *on* now, Mr Smith... can't you see the *smiley*? What's the
matter, don't you know that *anything*, no matter how hurtful or hateful
or degrading or bigoted, can be un-said if it is followed by 'What's the
matter... can't take a *joke*?'
You'd know that if you listened to more Talk Radio, that's for sure... at
least that's where *I* learned it.
>I happen to
>live in a manufactured home in Florida because, for me,
>it is comfortable, affordable housing. I certainly do not
>deserve to have my home destroyed just because it was
>manufactured and not site-constructed.
Economic Darwinism, survival of the fittest, learn to enjoy creative
destruction, if you aren't born into a wealthy family then you deserve
what you get... hmmmmmm... now where's that fool smiley key?
DD
LX-i
>
> A properly anchored and shuttered manufactured home
> can withstand winds of at least 125 mph.
Then you, my good man, could make a *fortune* educating those in Florida
on how to "properly" anchor their homes. :)
LX-i
> "LX-i" <lxi...@netscape.net> wrote in message
> news:3a564$43125871$45491c57$10...@KNOLOGY.NET...
>
>>Joe Zitzelberger wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
>>>The entire "manufactured housing" industry in the southeast is still
>>>working overtime to catch up on the replacement trailers needed after
>>>last seasons Charlie, Francis and Ivan damage.
>>
>>Well, you just explained your own argument. People who put up trailers
>>in Florida deserve exactly what they get. :) I was referring to the
>>site-constructed houses I've seen - and, of course, businesses seem to
>>last as well.
>
> live in a manufactured home in Florida because, for me,
> it is comfortable, affordable housing. I certainly do not
> deserve to have my home destroyed just because it was
> manufactured and not site-constructed.
I certainly don't hope that your home is destroyed. However,
manufactured homes are notoriously unstable, sustaining much greater
damage (up to, and including complete structural collapse) than other
forms of construction. (Now, if you feel that this statement is a straw
man, then you're naturally not going to agree with the statements that
follow.) Maybe you've researched things, and you feel comfortable with
the level of safety which your particular home provides. Personally,
I'd want a little more between me and 2-3+ hurricanes each year.
My statement simply reflects my belief that we all have choices that we
have to make. To those who make those choices and suffer loss, my heart
goes out to them, just as it would for a house or an apartment building.
However, the benefit of this particular home style/location choice
weighed against the risks, to me, isn't compelling.
<flame_bait>
Of course, there are still people who smoke, too. :)
</flame_bait>
Rick Smith
> Rick Smith wrote:
> > "LX-i" <lxi...@netscape.net> wrote in message
> > news:3a564$43125871$45491c57$10...@KNOLOGY.NET...
> >
> >>Joe Zitzelberger wrote:
> >
> > [snip]
> >
> >>>The entire "manufactured housing" industry in the southeast is still
> >>>working overtime to catch up on the replacement trailers needed after
> >>>last seasons Charlie, Francis and Ivan damage.
> >>
> >>Well, you just explained your own argument. People who put up trailers
> >>in Florida deserve exactly what they get. :) I was referring to the
> >>site-constructed houses I've seen - and, of course, businesses seem to
> >>last as well.
> >
> > Daniel, your comment seems uncharitable. I happen to
> > live in a manufactured home in Florida because, for me,
> > it is comfortable, affordable housing. I certainly do not
> > deserve to have my home destroyed just because it was
> > manufactured and not site-constructed.
>
> I certainly don't hope that your home is destroyed.
The point was that your comment was unkind and censorious
as reflected by "deserve exactly what they get".
[snip]
> My statement simply reflects my belief that we all have choices that we
> have to make.
It went beyond simple and into disrespectful.
[snip]
> However, the benefit of this particular home style/location choice
> weighed against the risks, to me, isn't compelling.
Now, that was a simple statement.
Richard
LX-i wrote:
> Of course, there are still people who smoke, too. :)
Some use cigarettes to do so, and others just read this group.
Rick Smith
<docd...@panix.com> wrote in message news:df04q2$9pc$1...@panix5.panix.com...
> In article <11h6q9e...@corp.supernews.com>,
> Rick Smith <rick...@mfi.net> wrote:
> >
> >"LX-i" <lxi...@netscape.net> wrote in message
> >news:3a564$43125871$45491c57$10...@KNOLOGY.NET...
>
> [snip]
>
> >> People who put up trailers
> >> in Florida deserve exactly what they get. :)
>
> [snip]
>
> >Daniel, your comment seems uncharitable.
>
> Oh, come *on* now, Mr Smith... can't you see the *smiley*? What's the
> matter, don't you know that *anything*, no matter how hurtful or hateful
> or degrading or bigoted, can be un-said if it is followed by 'What's the
> matter... can't take a *joke*?'
>
> You'd know that if you listened to more Talk Radio, that's for sure... at
> least that's where *I* learned it.
That must be it. I don't listen to talk radio.
> >I happen to
> >live in a manufactured home in Florida because, for me,
> >it is comfortable, affordable housing. I certainly do not
> >deserve to have my home destroyed just because it was
> >manufactured and not site-constructed.
>
> Economic Darwinism, survival of the fittest, learn to enjoy creative
> destruction, if you aren't born into a wealthy family then you deserve
> what you get... hmmmmmm... now where's that fool smiley key?
Reminds me of a smiling President Clinton (commenting
on the vote count in Florida after the 2000 general election)
saying, as I recall, "This proves more than ever that those
who do not vote deserve the government they get." My
thought was immediate, "I never deserved the government
I got even when I was voting."
Joe Zitzelberger
"Rick Smith" <rick...@mfi.net> wrote:
People continue to call them 'trailers' long after they have been parked
in their final resting place. Thus the term 'trailer parks'. Some even
leave the axles on in case they want to move again.
Even if they are properly anchored, then cannot stand up to the types of
storms that hit Florida annually. When was the last year that they did
NOT get winds in excess of 125 somewhere in the state? I can't recall
one.
Of course, many are not anchored at all, or are improperly anchored.
A mere cat 1 (just fun and games for weather buffs) will gust enough to
take out unanchored or improperly anchored trailers. A cat 2 will trash
the properly anchored ones.
Joe Zitzelberger
"jce" <defau...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> "Joe Zitzelberger"
> > Florida has some pretty lame building codes considering their hurricane
> > exposure.
> Actually, since Andrew, specific building codes _have_ improved.
> Unfortunately, it's the codes not related to wind damage that have had the
> problems. In a minor hurricane most _new_ homes will still have a roof due
> to the additional supports around trusses. However, even in fine weather
> most bathrooms fail when regular green board is used to house showers. If
> your bathroom fails (the tiles fall off and your hand can go through the
> wall) you are not protected as it's not "structural" damage - essentially
> leaving you to find a bathroom rebuilder (of which there are many bad ones).
I would say that anyone that puts green board under tile ought to be
strung up and have their livers fed to vultures (next to the guy who
invented Micro$oft 'clippy').
Cement board is not that much more expensive and is much HARDIE-r (if
you will pardon the pun).
Rick Smith
> In article <11h6opo...@corp.supernews.com>,
> "Rick Smith" <rick...@mfi.net> wrote:
>
> > "Joe Zitzelberger" <joe_zitz...@nospam.com> wrote in message
> > news:joe_zitzelberger-4D...@ispnews.usenetserver.com...
> > [snip]
> > > The entire "manufactured housing" industry in the southeast is still
> > > working overtime to catch up on the replacement trailers needed after
> > > last seasons Charlie, Francis and Ivan damage.
> >
> > H'm, "replacement trailers"? Trailering is the means
> > by which manufactured homes are moved. They are
> > homes not trailers. After being trailered to a site, the
> > home is raised; pylons are placed under its frame;
> > its trailering wheels and tongue are removed; anchors
> > are driven into the ground and the home's anchor
> > straps are attached to those anchors; water, sewer,
> > and electrical connections are made; then skirting is
> > added to conceal the underside. These steps must be
> > reversed to render the home capable of being trailered
> > again.
> >
> > A properly anchored and shuttered manufactured home
> > can withstand winds of at least 125 mph.
I was mistaken, the standard is 120 mph.
> People continue to call them 'trailers' long after they have been parked
> in their final resting place. Thus the term 'trailer parks'.
Some people, including myself, do not always know
how or when definitions change. Where lot rents are involved,
"trailer park" or "mobile home park" may be appropriate;
but I own the lot and live in a manufactured home community.
Nonetheless, a manufactured home in a "trailer park" is still
a manufactured home and not a trailer.
> Some even
> leave the axles on in case they want to move again.
I am not aware of axles being removable.
> Even if they are properly anchored, then cannot stand up to the types of
> storms that hit Florida annually. When was the last year that they did
> NOT get winds in excess of 125 somewhere in the state? I can't recall
> one.
Tornados occur every year and exceed 125 mph. There
are years when no hurricanes hit Florida and most that do
are not major hurricanes (cat 3 or higher).
< http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/paststate.shtml >
> Of course, many are not anchored at all, or are improperly anchored.
>
> A mere cat 1 (just fun and games for weather buffs) will gust enough to
> take out unanchored or improperly anchored trailers. A cat 2 will trash
> the properly anchored ones.
< http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/aboutsshs.shtml >
Category Two Hurricane:
Winds 96-110 mph (83-95 kt or 154-177 km/hr).
docd...@panix.com
Rick Smith <rick...@mfi.net> wrote:
[snip]
>> Economic Darwinism, survival of the fittest, learn to enjoy creative
>> destruction, if you aren't born into a wealthy family then you deserve
>> what you get... hmmmmmm... now where's that fool smiley key?
>
>Reminds me of a smiling President Clinton (commenting
>on the vote count in Florida after the 2000 general election)
>saying, as I recall, "This proves more than ever that those
>who do not vote deserve the government they get." My
>thought was immediate, "I never deserved the government
>I got even when I was voting."
Sorry, the position of King of England's already filled and not open to
the electoral process... God Save the Me!
(I think it was Mencken who said something along the lines of 'Give the
people what they want... they deserve it.')
DD