> -- > Bill Klein > wmklein <at> ix.netcom.com > "john gilmore" <john_w_gilm...@MSN.COM> wrote in message > news:BAY104-W220CC4A942A5E8BACA5EB7C67A0@phx.gbl... >>I like David Farber's (of course impolitic) 'vacuum tubes' analogy.
>> From this morning's New York Times:
>> But the California controller, John Chiang, says the state's payroll system - >> which uses a programming throwback known as Cobol, or Common >> Business-Oriented Language - is so antiquated it would take months to make >> the changes to workers' checks.
>> "In 2003, my office tried to see if we could reconfigure our system to do >> such a task," Mr. Chiang told a State Senate committee on Monday. "And after >> 12 months, we stopped without a feasible solution."
>> David J. Farber, a computer science professor at Carnegie Mellon University, >> said using Cobol was roughly equivalent to having "a television with vacuum >> tubes."
>> "There are no Cobol programmers around anymore," Mr. Farber said. "They >> retired centuries ago." John GilmoreAshland, MA 01721-1817USA >> _________________________________________________________________ >> Get Windows Live and get whatever you need, wherever you are. Start here. >> http://www.windowslive.com/default.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Home_082008 >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >> send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO >> Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
>FYI, > From IBM-MAIN (with LOTS of follow-up comments there) >> -- >> Bill Klein >> wmklein <at> ix.netcom.com >> "john gilmore" <john_w_gilm...@MSN.COM> wrote in message >> news:BAY104-W220CC4A942A5E8BACA5EB7C67A0@phx.gbl... >>>I like David Farber's (of course impolitic) 'vacuum tubes' analogy.
>>> From this morning's New York Times:
>>> But the California controller, John Chiang, says the state's payroll system - >>> which uses a programming throwback known as Cobol, or Common >>> Business-Oriented Language - is so antiquated it would take months to make >>> the changes to workers' checks.
>>> "In 2003, my office tried to see if we could reconfigure our system to do >>> such a task," Mr. Chiang told a State Senate committee on Monday. "And after >>> 12 months, we stopped without a feasible solution."
Mr. Farber said California was not alone in having out-of-date systems — or handy excuses.
"It's old technology, and you can’t find a repairman who knows how to fix it," he said. ?It also a neat way of figuring how not to get your salary cut."
Even before his remarks to the Legislature, Mr. Chiang, a Democrat, had made no secret of his dislike for the order by Mr. Schwarzenegger, a Republican, saying he would refuse to follow it even if the state’s computers could handle the job. The governor, in turn, has threatened to sue Mr. Chiang to force the pay cuts, saying Mr. Chiang was violating a 2003 California court decision mandating that state employees take minimum wage if the Legislature does not pass a budget.
> In article <Kmrmk.414459$I42.352...@fe04.news.easynews.com>, > William M. Klein <wmkl...@nospam.netcom.com> wrote:
> >FYI, > > From IBM-MAIN (with LOTS of follow-up comments there) > >> -- > >> Bill Klein > >> wmklein <at> ix.netcom.com > >> "john gilmore" <john_w_gilm...@MSN.COM> wrote in message > >>news:BAY104-W220CC4A942A5E8BACA5EB7C67A0@phx.gbl... > >>>I like David Farber's (of course impolitic) 'vacuum tubes' analogy.
> >>> From this morning's New York Times:
> >>> But the California controller, John Chiang, says the state's payroll system - > >>> which uses a programming throwback known as Cobol, or Common > >>> Business-Oriented Language - is so antiquated it would take months to make > >>> the changes to workers' checks.
> >>> "In 2003, my office tried to see if we could reconfigure our system to do > >>> such a task," Mr. Chiang told a State Senate committee on Monday. "And after > >>> 12 months, we stopped without a feasible solution."
> Mr. Farber said California was not alone in having out-of-date systems — > or handy excuses.
> "It's old technology, and you can’t find a repairman who knows how to fix > it," he said. ?It also a neat way of figuring how not to get your salary > cut."
> Even before his remarks to the Legislature, Mr. Chiang, a Democrat, had > made no secret of his dislike for the order by Mr. Schwarzenegger, a > Republican, saying he would refuse to follow it even if the state’s > computers could handle the job. The governor, in turn, has threatened to > sue Mr. Chiang to force the pay cuts, saying Mr. Chiang was violating a > 2003 California court decision mandating that state employees take minimum > wage if the Legislature does not pass a budget.
> --end quoted text
> DD- Hide quoted text -
> - Show quoted text -
Another way to look at this is the classical "consider the source" of the quote.
These facts are useful when "connecting the dots":
1. Professor Farber is a computer science professor at Carnegie-Mellon University (CMU).
2. CMU is home to the Software Engineering Institute (SEI).
3. The following excerpt is from Robert Glass's _Facts and Fallacies of Software Engineering_, where he quotes Peter Mcbreen in _Software Craftsmanship_: "Software engineering has been trying to kill COBOL for decades."
4. McBreen's book is copyrighted 2002.
And this compilation of facts is from someone (me) who actually likes Software Engineering and who thinks CMU is a very, very good school. ;-)
> 3. The following excerpt is from Robert Glass's _Facts and Fallacies > of Software Engineering_, where he quotes Peter Mcbreen in _Software > Craftsmanship_: "Software engineering has been trying to kill COBOL > for decades."
COBOL predates Software Engineering.
COBOL was and is well suited for and early on was used and is used still to implement ad hoc designs.
Engineering is related to planning, constructing, and managing according to specific methods.
Software Engineering has no methods for ad hoc design.
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