[possibly flamebait] Mommy, Where Do Standards Come From?
Ersek, Laszlo
Seebs
> http://pl.atyp.us/wordpress/?p=2719
>
> Please share your thoughts, if you care.
I posted a comment on the blog (still awaiting moderation):
Uh, no.
I was on the ANSI/ISO C committee for about ten years. I was there
as an individual. The closest I ever had to any kind of employer
support was that I had an employer that would only charge half of
the time I spent at meetings to my vacation.
I believe we had at least one other person who went to meetings
because he was personally interested in the language, although my
memory�s gotten foggy with the years.
But you certainly can, as just any old individual, pay your dues
and show up for meetings. Past that, it's a question of whether
people think you make good arguments.
The C committee may be atypical in that members of the ANSI committee
are part of debates on the ISO committee meetings, but it's certainly
a real-world case in which you can be any old guy off the street
and be a member if you want to.
I agree that his criticism would carry real weight if you couldn't just show
up for meetings if you want to -- so maybe it's a good criticism of some
other standards. I'm pretty sure C++ was the same way C was, though.
-s
--
Copyright 2010, all wrongs reversed. Peter Seebach / usenet...@seebs.net
http://www.seebs.net/log/ <-- lawsuits, religion, and funny pictures
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_Game_(Scientology) <-- get educated!
Kelsey Bjarnason
> http://pl.atyp.us/wordpress/?p=2719
>
> Please share your thoughts, if you care.
Okay, it's a pretty url, with a cutesy animal name in it.
Ian Collins
> On 2010-03-04, Ersek, Laszlo <la...@ludens.elte.hu> wrote:
>> http://pl.atyp.us/wordpress/?p=2719
>>
>> Please share your thoughts, if you care.
>
> I posted a comment on the blog (still awaiting moderation):
>
> Uh, no.
>
> I was on the ANSI/ISO C committee for about ten years. I was there
> as an individual. The closest I ever had to any kind of employer
> support was that I had an employer that would only charge half of
> the time I spent at meetings to my vacation.
>
> I believe we had at least one other person who went to meetings
> because he was personally interested in the language, although my
> memory�s gotten foggy with the years.
>
> But you certainly can, as just any old individual, pay your dues
> and show up for meetings. Past that, it's a question of whether
> people think you make good arguments.
>
> The C committee may be atypical in that members of the ANSI committee
> are part of debates on the ISO committee meetings, but it's certainly
> a real-world case in which you can be any old guy off the street
> and be a member if you want to.
>
> I agree that his criticism would carry real weight if you couldn't just show
> up for meetings if you want to -- so maybe it's a good criticism of some
> other standards. I'm pretty sure C++ was the same way C was, though.
Francis Glassborow is or was an individual member of the C++ committee,
so yes, the article is wrong.
--
Ian Collins
Phred Phungus
> On 2010-03-04, Ersek, Laszlo <la...@ludens.elte.hu> wrote:
>> http://pl.atyp.us/wordpress/?p=2719
>>
>> Please share your thoughts, if you care.
>
> I posted a comment on the blog (still awaiting moderation):
>
> Uh, no.
>
> I was on the ANSI/ISO C committee for about ten years. I was there
> as an individual. The closest I ever had to any kind of employer
> support was that I had an employer that would only charge half of
> the time I spent at meetings to my vacation.
>
> I believe we had at least one other person who went to meetings
> because he was personally interested in the language, although my
> memory�s gotten foggy with the years.
>
> But you certainly can, as just any old individual, pay your dues
> and show up for meetings. Past that, it's a question of whether
> people think you make good arguments.
>
> The C committee may be atypical in that members of the ANSI committee
> are part of debates on the ISO committee meetings, but it's certainly
> a real-world case in which you can be any old guy off the street
> and be a member if you want to.
>
> I agree that his criticism would carry real weight if you couldn't just show
> up for meetings if you want to -- so maybe it's a good criticism of some
> other standards. I'm pretty sure C++ was the same way C was, though.
>
> -s
The moderation approved your post. I'll guess the vote was 1-0.
I liked the writing, and we all have a point of view in these matters.
My question for those who would take away the standards mechanism, with
all its shortcomings, is will you also be taking n1256.pdf, because I
really like the price and utility I get out of that.
So Keith Thompson has a newer version of the C standard. I wouldn't
understand his any better.
--
fred
Keith Thompson
[...]
> My question for those who would take away the standards mechanism,
> with all its shortcomings, is will you also be taking n1256.pdf,
> because I really like the price and utility I get out of that.
>
> So Keith Thompson has a newer version of the C standard. I wouldn't
> understand his any better.
I don't know what you're referring to. I have copies if n1256.pdf
(which incorporates C99 plus the three Technical Corrigenda) and
n1425.pdf (which is the latest pre-C201X committee draft), both of
which are available on the Committee's web site. I don't have,
or have access to, anything newer that's not generally available.
--
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) ks...@mib.org <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
Nokia
"We must do something. This is something. Therefore, we must do this."
-- Antony Jay and Jonathan Lynn, "Yes Minister"
Lorenzo Villari
Keith Thompson <ks...@mib.org> wrote:
>
> I don't know what you're referring to. I have copies if n1256.pdf
> (which incorporates C99 plus the three Technical Corrigenda) and
> n1425.pdf (which is the latest pre-C201X committee draft), both of
> which are available on the Committee's web site. I don't have,
> or have access to, anything newer that's not generally available.
>
I wondered What do you think about this:
http://www.knosof.co.uk/cbook/cbook.html
Walter Banks
Lorenzo Villari wrote:
It is worth reading. It is a very detailed commentary on C99 with
some changes since then. It often is a good reference to look at the
intent of the C99 standard from one persons perspective. Some of
the comments are provocative others have detailed explanations.
w..
--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ne...@netfront.net ---
Lorenzo Villari
Oh good to know that. Thank you for your opinion. It's huge but
interesting.
Keith Thompson
I'm not sure why you're asking me in particular -- or was your
question intended for the newsgroup generally?
It's big book, and I certainly haven't had time to read it. I like
the idea of a commentary on the standard. A couple of things did
jump out at me in a few minutes.
I think the author misuses the word "sentence". For example, "At
some point you ought to read all of sentence 0 (the introduction)."
And the title "The New C Standard", in a book updated in 2009,
implies that could be about 201X; I had to skim through several
pages of introductory material to discover that it only discusses
C99 and earlier standards.
These are fairly trivial criticisms, and do not necessarily say
anything about the general quality of the book.
Lorenzo Villari
Keith Thompson <ks...@mib.org> wrote:
>
> I'm not sure why you're asking me in particular -- or was your
> question intended for the newsgroup generally?
>
It was a question for the newsgroup. I thought starting another thread
only for this question was excessive. I've read a lot posts written by
you citing the standard so inserting this, replying to you, seemed a
natural thing to do. Thanks :)