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woodb...@gmail.com

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Mar 19, 2015, 12:58:16 PM3/19/15
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The following is taken from this page
http://www.reddit.com/r/cpp/comments/2yyfda/interview_with_scott_meyers_at_yandex/


"Do you think that if there were one person -- I don't know -- Bjarne -- or someone esle who would be making all of the decisions -- like W3C -- it would be better, or is the Committee a good compromise?

I think that Committee is a reasonable way to get a lot of parties together. To be honest, I don't think that Bjarne has any kind of desire to be the person who makes all of the decisions. The advantage of a person who makes all of the decisions is that they can have a clear vision and then can really implement that clear vision. And there's no one who plays that role in C++ and I don't know of anybody who could play that role in C++.

It's a little bit different from lots of other languages because it's very crossplatform -- so you're dealing with lots and lots of different operating systems. Lots of compiler vendors. There is not a lot of other languages for which there would be, say, four major compilers that run on different platforms. And also, just a range of applications. Especially when you start thinking about the impact of C++ on embedded systems where it is quite an important programming language -- they have really different views of the world in some cases.

So it would be nice if there were, like I said, a sort of a clear vision via a single person, but I don't think that's going to be happening in C++."

-----------------------------------------------------------------

I claim to represent the "clear vision" alternative that Scott
talks about.

"But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of G-d,
for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them,
because they are spiritually appraised. But he who is spiritual
appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no one. For
who has known the mind of the L-rd, that he will instruct Him?
But we have the mind of Messiah (aka Christ)."
First Corinthians 2: 14-16

Scott says, "I don't know of anybody who could play that role in C++."
Yeshua (aka Jesus) is the only one I know who can play that role.
A company made up of followers of Yeshua will be able to provide
the servant leadership that's needed for C++ going forward.

And yes, it was a band(company) of believers who paved the way
for modern civilization. We just carry on in their footsteps.
I'm writing from Saint Paul, Minnesota, a city named after the
writer of the letter to the Corinthians that I quoted. You
may have heard of Saint Cloud, Minnesota. I can't think of
a better place to be doing cloud computing. Saint Peter,
Minnesota is not far from here and is a beautiful town.


Brian
Ebenezer Enterprises - "Unless the L-rd builds the house,
they labor in vain that build it." Psalms 127.1

http://webEbenezer.net

Greg Martin

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Mar 19, 2015, 1:39:48 PM3/19/15
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On 2015-03-19, woodb...@gmail.com <woodb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The following is taken from this page
> http://www.reddit.com/r/cpp/comments/2yyfda/interview_with_scott_meyers_at_yandex/
>
>
> "Do you think that if there were one person -- I don't know -- Bjarne -- or someone esle who would be making all of the decisions -- like W3C -- it would be better, or is the Committee a good compromise?
>
> I think that Committee is a reasonable way to get a lot of parties together. To be honest, I don't think that Bjarne has any kind of desire to be the person who makes all of the decisions. The advantage of a person who makes all of the decisions is that they can have a clear vision and then can really implement that clear vision. And there's no one who plays that role in C++ and I don't know of anybody who could play that role in C++.
>
> It's a little bit different from lots of other languages because it's very crossplatform -- so you're dealing with lots and lots of different operating systems. Lots of compiler vendors. There is not a lot of other languages for which there would be, say, four major compilers that run on different platforms. And also, just a range of applications. Especially when you start thinking about the impact of C++ on embedded systems where it is quite an important programming language -- they have really different views of the world in some cases.
>
> So it would be nice if there were, like I said, a sort of a clear vision via a single person, but I don't think that's going to be happening in C++."
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> I claim to represent the "clear vision" alternative that Scott
> talks about.
>

The guileless ego of the insane.

David Brown

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Mar 19, 2015, 3:00:43 PM3/19/15
to
Persuade Jesus to turn up in person (none of this "in spirit" nonsense -
a real, life, normal human or humanoid body). Let him publish books on
C++, give talks on it, and generally show that he is skilled at it and
has C++ as his single major interest in his life and work. Then maybe
C++ developers can look to him as a "visionary" for C++.

Until then, he is as relevant as a leader for a programming language as
a Miss Universe candidate claiming that her dearest wish is world peace.

(If a believe in Jesus helps /you/ with your coding, then that's another
matter - believe what you want as long as it helps you be a better
person. Just don't expect anyone else to have the same opinions, or let
your religious beliefs affect their practical reality. Religion is a
personal matter.)


jacob navia

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Mar 20, 2015, 3:27:57 AM3/20/15
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Le 19/03/2015 17:57, woodb...@gmail.com a écrit :
> I claim to represent the "clear vision" alternative that Scott
> talks about.
>
> "But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of G-d,
> for they are foolishness to him;


Exactly. Religion is for fools.

> and he cannot understand them,

No. I refuse god, the angels, the demons and all that nonsense!

>
> And yes, it was a band(company) of believers who paved the way
> for modern civilization.

No. Mankind STARTED to make progress when we threw AWAY religion at the
renaissance. Science and mathematics paved the way of the scientific
revolution that has brought us (among thousands of other things)
computers, and C++, C, and software in general.

:-)

It wasn't Jesus, computers weren't in the Bible.


woodb...@gmail.com

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Mar 21, 2015, 5:06:16 PM3/21/15
to
On Thursday, March 19, 2015 at 2:00:43 PM UTC-5, David Brown wrote:
>
> Persuade Jesus to turn up in person (none of this "in spirit" nonsense -
> a real, life, normal human or humanoid body). Let him publish books on
> C++, give talks on it, and generally show that he is skilled at it and
> has C++ as his single major interest in his life and work. Then maybe
> C++ developers can look to him as a "visionary" for C++.
>

Here's a quote from Yeshua (aka Jesus):

"The poor you will always have with you, but you will not
always have Me." Matthew 26:11

I'm a representative of His. I can give talks, but I'm
not claiming any know-how. G-d has been helping me all
the way.

Here's a story from the Gospel of John. It takes place
after Yeshua has been crucified and resurrected.


Early in the morning, Yeshua stood on the shore, but the
disciples did not realize that it was Yeshua.

He called out to them, "Friends, haven't you any fish?"

"No," they answered.

He said, "Throw your net on the right side of the boat
and you will find some." When they did, they were unable
to haul the net in because of the large number of fish.

Then the disciple whom Yeshua loved said to Peter, "It is
the L-rd!" As soon as Simon Peter heard him say, "It is
the L-rd," he wrapped his outer garment around him (for
he had taken it off) and jumped into the water.

----------------------------------------------------

They had been fishing all night with poor results.
Yeshua found them and told them what to do. They were
experienced fishermen, but they were willing to take
advice from someone they didn't recognize. Why listen
to a guy they didn't recognize? Things weren't going
well for them so I guess they decided "Why not?"

> Until then, he is as relevant as a leader for a programming language as
> a Miss Universe candidate claiming that her dearest wish is world peace.
>
> (If a believe in Jesus helps /you/ with your coding, then that's another
> matter - believe what you want as long as it helps you be a better
> person. Just don't expect anyone else to have the same opinions, or let
> your religious beliefs affect their practical reality. Religion is a
> personal matter.)

I'm letting others know the source of my help. He likes
helping people.

Brian
Ebenezer Enterprises
http://webEbenezer.net

Robert Wessel

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Mar 21, 2015, 5:55:23 PM3/21/15
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On Sat, 21 Mar 2015 14:06:06 -0700 (PDT), woodb...@gmail.com wrote:

>On Thursday, March 19, 2015 at 2:00:43 PM UTC-5, David Brown wrote:
>>
>> Persuade Jesus to turn up in person (none of this "in spirit" nonsense -
>> a real, life, normal human or humanoid body). Let him publish books on
>> C++, give talks on it, and generally show that he is skilled at it and
>> has C++ as his single major interest in his life and work. Then maybe
>> C++ developers can look to him as a "visionary" for C++.
>>
>
>Here's a quote from Yeshua (aka Jesus):
>
>"The poor you will always have with you, but you will not
>always have Me." Matthew 26:11
>
>I'm a representative of His. I can give talks, but I'm
>not claiming any know-how. G-d has been helping me all
>the way.
>
>Here's a story from the Gospel of John. It takes place
>after Yeshua has been crucified and resurrected.
>
>
>Early in the morning, Yeshua stood on the shore, but the
>disciples did not realize that it was Yeshua.
>
>He called out to them, "Friends, haven't you any fish?"
>
>"No," they answered.
>
>He said, "Throw your net on the right side of the boat
>and you will find some." When they did, they were unable
>to haul the net in because of the large number of fish.


That Jesus is *such* a practical joker. The poor guys have no fish,
then he fills their net with so many fish they can't haul it in, so
they *still* have no fish, and have probably lost their net in the
process.

Mr Flibble

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Mar 21, 2015, 10:34:08 PM3/21/15
to
It is really quite simple.

According to the New Testament Jesus was related to David.
According to the Old Testament David was related to Adam.
According to evolution (science) humans evolved so there was no first
human called Adam.

So science falsifies the New and Old Testament and in the process kills
Jesus and the Abrahamic god.

Conclusion: Judaism, Christianity and Islam are all based on a lie.
Time to get a new religion: try science!

/Flibble

P.S. Sausages.


Robert Wessel

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Mar 22, 2015, 1:23:46 AM3/22/15
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Why tell me? I'm the one making fun of a famous biblical allegory.


>According to the New Testament Jesus was related to David.
>According to the Old Testament David was related to Adam.
>According to evolution (science) humans evolved so there was no first
>human called Adam.
>
>So science falsifies the New and Old Testament and in the process kills
>Jesus and the Abrahamic god.
>
>Conclusion: Judaism, Christianity and Islam are all based on a lie.


Logically that argument applies only to the relatively modest subset
of followers* of one of the Abrahamic religions who believes the Old
and New Testaments** are the literal, and inerrant, word of God. For
example, no Roman Catholic should*** believe such a thing, and that's
half the people calling themselves Christians right there. The same
applies to most orthodox sects as well. And while Muslims consider
the Quran inerrant****, but the other inspired books (very roughly the
parts of the Old and New Testament accepted by Islam), are *not*
granted that status. Genesis is *specifically* held to be
allegorical. So that's something like three-quarters of the followers
of the Abrahamic religions right there, and most of the rest don't
assume inerrancy either.

Of course the people to whom this argument would actually apply, are
pretty likely to simply reject evolution in the first place.


*Or at least claimed followers.

**Obviously not all sects accept quite the same versions of those.

***The Church's doctrine is quite clear on the matter, but lots of
people do get it wrong.

****At least in its Arabic form.


>Time to get a new religion: try science!


Again, why tell me? But science makes for a very odd religion. No
absolute truths, no faith, no unalterable doctrine...

David Brown

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Mar 22, 2015, 6:31:44 AM3/22/15
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On 21/03/15 22:06, woodb...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, March 19, 2015 at 2:00:43 PM UTC-5, David Brown wrote:
>>
>> Persuade Jesus to turn up in person (none of this "in spirit" nonsense -
>> a real, life, normal human or humanoid body). Let him publish books on
>> C++, give talks on it, and generally show that he is skilled at it and
>> has C++ as his single major interest in his life and work. Then maybe
>> C++ developers can look to him as a "visionary" for C++.
>>
>
> Here's a quote from Yeshua (aka Jesus):
>

You mean, a quotation from a translation of copies of something that
someone wrote down because someone told them that someone heard a
preacher saying...

The Bible has some interesting philosophy in parts, and some of it is
worth following. But it has no evidence or justification for claims to
authority. /You/ may believe it has special authority, but that's
/your/ business - you can't expect anyone else to agree or even to
understand your position.

>
>> Until then, he is as relevant as a leader for a programming language as
>> a Miss Universe candidate claiming that her dearest wish is world peace.
>>
>> (If a believe in Jesus helps /you/ with your coding, then that's another
>> matter - believe what you want as long as it helps you be a better
>> person. Just don't expect anyone else to have the same opinions, or let
>> your religious beliefs affect their practical reality. Religion is a
>> personal matter.)
>
> I'm letting others know the source of my help. He likes
> helping people.
>

That's fine, but this is not the place for it. An occasional hint is
not unreasonable, but most people here already know that your religious
beliefs are a major driving force in your life and work - we don't need
to be told again. If you want to persuade people to join your religion,
do so by demonstrating its benefits through your words and deeds - show
us how it makes you a better person or a better programmer. (And no,
reposting complaints about swearing does not show that you are a better
person. Nor do Biblical quotations.) That's your challenge.

(But please, for the sake of others in c.l.c++ who dislike such OT
posts, try to keep religious threads to a minimum here. I already
mentioned sci.electronics.design as a group where on-topic threads are
so rare that they are practically off-topic - you might consider it as
an option.)


Bo Persson

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Mar 22, 2015, 8:59:39 AM3/22/15
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On 2015-03-22 03:34, Mr Flibble wrote:

> It is really quite simple.
>
> According to the New Testament Jesus was related to David.
> According to the Old Testament David was related to Adam.
> According to evolution (science) humans evolved so there was no first
> human called Adam.
>

It doesn't prove anything. Once upon a time, there could very well have
been a man called Adam. We don't know.


All we know is that there a are some serious gaps in the story told by
the Genesis:

There are these two people Adam and Eve. They have two sons. One of them
is killed and the other one has to move to a place called Nod. There he
gets himself a wife (what?!) and has a son, who has another son, etc.


I have always wondered where all the wives came from. Science?




Mr Flibble

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Mar 22, 2015, 1:12:11 PM3/22/15
to
Nonsense. Abraham never existed. The Abrahamic god is predicated on
the Bible being true; if the Bible is not true then that god doesn't
exist and you are talking about some other god not the Abrahamic one.

/Flibble

Öö Tiib

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Mar 22, 2015, 1:23:08 PM3/22/15
to
On Saturday, 21 March 2015 23:06:16 UTC+2, woodb...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, March 19, 2015 at 2:00:43 PM UTC-5, David Brown wrote:
> >
> > Persuade Jesus to turn up in person (none of this "in spirit" nonsense -
> > a real, life, normal human or humanoid body). Let him publish books on
> > C++, give talks on it, and generally show that he is skilled at it and
> > has C++ as his single major interest in his life and work. Then maybe
> > C++ developers can look to him as a "visionary" for C++.
> >
>
> Here's a quote from Yeshua (aka Jesus):

> "The poor you will always have with you, but you will not
> always have Me." Matthew 26:11

What you write does not insult us as much as it does insult yourself.
Yeah ... search for poor idiots in C++ group. You, Brian, are like
that recent "How to make $100,000 in 20-90 days" Kristina C. in it,
no difference.

<snip story about Jesus some hunter-gatherers>

We programmers are manufacturers not hunter-gatherers. We do no need
luck of catching wild animals to be successful. When we do our work
well, with hearth and brain then other humans buy it from us. Advice
from others (regardless if it is Jesus or Bjarne Stroustrup) is always
worth to listen but never (even if it is holy scripture or latest
edition of "The C++ Programming Language") to blindly follow.

We need to understand nuances of our ever-changing work and doing
anything blindly is extremely bad advice. It leads to disasters and
rarely to useful results.

woodb...@gmail.com

unread,
Mar 22, 2015, 1:32:30 PM3/22/15
to
I don't think Cain found a wife in Nod, but he "knew"
her sexually there. His wife may have been one of his
sisters. According to the historian Josephus, Adam and
Eve had 33 sons and 23 daughters. G-d had told them to
"be fruitful and multiply." Also Abraham was married to
his half-sister according to Genesis 20.

Brian

Pavel

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Mar 22, 2015, 11:34:56 PM3/22/15
to
From Adam and his first wife, Lilith.
>
>
>
>

Martijn Lievaart

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Mar 23, 2015, 6:05:58 AM3/23/15
to
On Sun, 22 Mar 2015 10:22:38 -0700, Öö Tiib wrote:

> We programmers are manufacturers not hunter-gatherers. We do no need
> luck of catching wild animals to be successful. When we do our work
> well, with hearth and brain then other humans buy it from us. Advice
> from others (regardless if it is Jesus or Bjarne Stroustrup) is always
> worth to listen but never (even if it is holy scripture or latest
> edition of "The C++ Programming Language") to blindly follow.
>
> We need to understand nuances of our ever-changing work and doing
> anything blindly is extremely bad advice. It leads to disasters and
> rarely to useful results.

Amen! :-)

M4

Juha Nieminen

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Mar 23, 2015, 6:24:11 AM3/23/15
to
woodb...@gmail.com wrote:
> Scott says, "I don't know of anybody who could play that role in C++."
> Yeshua (aka Jesus) is the only one I know who can play that role.
> A company made up of followers of Yeshua will be able to provide
> the servant leadership that's needed for C++ going forward.

What exactly do you think you are doing?

I think that even your god, if he existed, would consider you insane.

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ne...@netfront.net ---

Glen Stark

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Mar 23, 2015, 5:21:52 PM3/23/15
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I can't imagine that the post was anything but a joke. I mean c,mon, get
a sense of humor. I found it pretty funny.

woodb...@gmail.com

unread,
Mar 23, 2015, 10:25:56 PM3/23/15
to
On Monday, March 23, 2015 at 5:24:11 AM UTC-5, Juha Nieminen wrote:
>
> What exactly do you think you are doing?
>

Matthew 5:3-10 says:

Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted.
Blessed are the gentle, for they shall inherit the earth.
Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
for they shall be satisfied.
Blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy.
Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.
Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.
Blessed are those who have been persecuted for the sake of
righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Blessed are you when people insult you and persecute you,
and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me.
Rejoice and be glad, for your reward in heaven is great; for
in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.
-------------------------------------------------------------------

The future of C++ belongs to the poor in spirit, those who
mourn, the gentle, those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
the merciful, the pure in heart, the peacemakers, and those
persecuted for the sake of righteousness.

Ebenezer Enterprises is a small company, but we have a
big G-d.

David Brown

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Mar 24, 2015, 3:37:57 AM3/24/15
to
Brian takes his religion far too seriously to make jokes about it.

On comp.lang.c, someone has been forging posts as though they were
written by another regular poster - exaggerating his style and opinions
in order to mock them. It is not inconceivable that the same immature
bully is at work in this group, posting in Brian's name - Brian has
never hidden his beliefs or his conviction that his work is "guided by
Jesus", but I don't remember him making posts that are merely mindless
Biblical quotations.

Would the real Brian please stand up?

Mr Flibble

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Mar 24, 2015, 3:14:05 PM3/24/15
to
Give it a fucking rest mate. Your bible is a lie and your god doesn't
exist.

/Flibble

Drew Lawson

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Mar 24, 2015, 4:32:48 PM3/24/15
to
In article <863c9f30-8b17-4de6...@googlegroups.com>
woodb...@gmail.com writes:
>On Monday, March 23, 2015 at 5:24:11 AM UTC-5, Juha Nieminen wrote:
>>
>> What exactly do you think you are doing?
>>
>
>Matthew 5:3-10 says:
>
>Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Blessed are the cheesemakers.


--
In Dr. Johnson's famous dictionary patriotism is defined as the
last resort of the scoundrel. With all due respect to an enlightened
but inferior lexicographer I beg to submit that it is the first.
-- Ambrose Bierce

red floyd

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Mar 24, 2015, 4:50:14 PM3/24/15
to
On 3/24/2015 1:32 PM, Drew Lawson wrote:
> In article <863c9f30-8b17-4de6...@googlegroups.com>
> woodb...@gmail.com writes:
>> On Monday, March 23, 2015 at 5:24:11 AM UTC-5, Juha Nieminen wrote:
>>>
>>> What exactly do you think you are doing?
>>>
>>
>> Matthew 5:3-10 says:
>>
>> Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
>
> Blessed are the cheesemakers.
>
>
It's a metaphor for ALL dairy products....

woodb...@gmail.com

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Mar 24, 2015, 9:43:45 PM3/24/15
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Leigh, please don't swear here.

Brian

Ian Collins

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Mar 25, 2015, 2:34:16 AM3/25/15
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woodb...@gmail.com wrote:
> Leigh, please don't swear here.

Brian, please don't evangelise here.

--
Ian Collins
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