Highest paying!

[Melzzzzz]

http://tech.co/highest-paying-programming-languages-2015-03

[Christopher Pisz]

On 3/13/2015 6:15 PM, Melzzzzz wrote:
> http://tech.co/highest-paying-programming-languages-2015-03
>


Well, I need a raise I think :P



--
I have chosen to troll filter/ignore all subthreads containing the
words: "Rick C. Hodgins", "Flibble", and "Islam"
So, I won't be able to see or respond to any such messages
---

[woodb...@gmail.com]

On Friday, March 13, 2015 at 6:15:15 PM UTC-5, Melzzzzz wrote:
> http://tech.co/highest-paying-programming-languages-2015-03

I had no idea what AWS was until I used

https://duckduckgo.com to find it. Turns out it's
an Amazon Web Service thing.

I'm not sure why Python is ranked so high.
But it's encouraging news for me from an advertising perspective.
I think programmers make above average amount and C++ programmers
are some of the best paid programmers.

Brian
Ebenezer Enterprises - So far G-d has helped us.
http://webEbenezer.net

[Scott Lurndal]

Melzzzzz <m...@zzzzz.com> writes:
>http://tech.co/highest-paying-programming-languages-2015-03

I suppose there are jobs where one simply programs in one
language. I don't think I've ever seen one; for example,
at my CPOE, programmers are expected to be proficient in
assembler (AArch64, MIPS), C, C++, python, perl and shell scripting. This
has been true wherever I worked starting in 1976 (when the languages
were PAL-D, BASIC, FOCAL, FORTRAN, COBOL, SPL/3000 and later PASCAL, C,
MACRO-32, BLISS-32, BPL, SPRITE and SPRASM followed in the late
80's by C++).

Generally we hire software engineers, not "C++ Programmers", "C programmers"
or "Python programmers".

[Christopher Pisz]

I bet you work on a linux platform...

All my jobs have been single language for myself and my peers. In a
Windows environment. Usually, C++ for backend and C# for front. No
scripting languages needed, unless you count powershell for the build
engineer.

[Melzzzzz]

On 3/16/15 3:23 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> Melzzzzz <m...@zzzzz.com> writes:
>> http://tech.co/highest-paying-programming-languages-2015-03
>
> I suppose there are jobs where one simply programs in one
> language. I don't think I've ever seen one; for example,
> at my CPOE, programmers are expected to be proficient in
> assembler (AArch64, MIPS), C, C++, python, perl and shell scripting. This
> has been true wherever I worked starting in 1976 (when the languages
> were PAL-D, BASIC, FOCAL, FORTRAN, COBOL, SPL/3000 and later PASCAL, C,
> MACRO-32, BLISS-32, BPL, SPRITE and SPRASM followed in the late
> 80's by C++).
>

Late 80's C++? What compiler?

> Generally we hire software engineers, not "C++ Programmers", "C programmers"
> or "Python programmers".
>

You pay 200$ per hour?

[woodb...@gmail.com]

On Monday, March 16, 2015 at 10:13:49 AM UTC-5, Christopher Pisz wrote:
> On 3/16/2015 9:23 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> >
> > I suppose there are jobs where one simply programs in one
> > language. I don't think I've ever seen one; for example,
> > at my CPOE, programmers are expected to be proficient in
> > assembler (AArch64, MIPS), C, C++, python, perl and shell scripting. This
> > has been true wherever I worked starting in 1976 (when the languages
> > were PAL-D, BASIC, FOCAL, FORTRAN, COBOL, SPL/3000 and later PASCAL, C,
> > MACRO-32, BLISS-32, BPL, SPRITE and SPRASM followed in the late
> > 80's by C++).
> >
> > Generally we hire software engineers, not "C++ Programmers", "C programmers"
> > or "Python programmers".
> >
>
> I bet you work on a linux platform...
>

It could be FreeBSD. I think Niall Douglas likes
FreeBSD more than Linux and I agree.

For over 20 years my work has been at least 80% C++.
I've also used Perl, Python and C. When I have some
say in the matter, I'm leary of scripting languages.
If I couldn't use C++, programming wouldn't be as
much fun.

Brian
Ebenezer Enterprises

[Scott Lurndal]

Christopher Pisz <nos...@notanaddress.com> writes:
>On 3/16/2015 9:23 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> Melzzzzz <m...@zzzzz.com> writes:
>>> http://tech.co/highest-paying-programming-languages-2015-03
>>
>> I suppose there are jobs where one simply programs in one
>> language. I don't think I've ever seen one; for example,
>> at my CPOE, programmers are expected to be proficient in
>> assembler (AArch64, MIPS), C, C++, python, perl and shell scripting. This
>> has been true wherever I worked starting in 1976 (when the languages
>> were PAL-D, BASIC, FOCAL, FORTRAN, COBOL, SPL/3000 and later PASCAL, C,
>> MACRO-32, BLISS-32, BPL, SPRITE and SPRASM followed in the late
>> 80's by C++).
>>
>> Generally we hire software engineers, not "C++ Programmers", "C programmers"
>> or "Python programmers".
>>
>
>I bet you work on a linux platform...

I've programmed for platforms starting from the PDP-8, PDP-11, Burroughs, IBM and Univac
mainframes, very large Unix systems (including one we sold to Dr. Hawking
in 1998), and very large linux systems (> 200 cores). 90% of this was
writing and/or maintaining operating systems and hypervisors (yes, both hypervisors
were C++ as was one of the operating systems) or simulators.

I've been fortunate to never have been required to write applications on a
Windows box (although I have worked with and modified the NT 4.0
sources - which became Win2K) and I've done windows device drivers in
the NT 3.51 timeframe. That experience more than anything soured
me on using Windows for development. I'd rather punch cards.

[Scott Lurndal]

Melzzzzz <m...@zzzzz.com> writes:
>On 3/16/15 3:23 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> Melzzzzz <m...@zzzzz.com> writes:
>>> http://tech.co/highest-paying-programming-languages-2015-03
>>
>> I suppose there are jobs where one simply programs in one
>> language. I don't think I've ever seen one; for example,
>> at my CPOE, programmers are expected to be proficient in
>> assembler (AArch64, MIPS), C, C++, python, perl and shell scripting. This
>> has been true wherever I worked starting in 1976 (when the languages
>> were PAL-D, BASIC, FOCAL, FORTRAN, COBOL, SPL/3000 and later PASCAL, C,
>> MACRO-32, BLISS-32, BPL, SPRITE and SPRASM followed in the late
>> 80's by C++).
>>
>
>Late 80's C++? What compiler?

Starting with Cfront 2.1 (before templates, before exceptions and
before STL). Much of this was done on a motorola 88100 using PCC
as the back-end for cfront.

>
>> Generally we hire software engineers, not "C++ Programmers", "C programmers"
>> or "Python programmers".
>>
>
>You pay 200$ per hour?

Nice non sequitor.

That works out to $400,000/yr. That's high for even here in
the valley. But it's not completely out-of-line for experienced
senior engineers once options are factored in.

[Melzzzzz]

On Mon, 16 Mar 2015 18:19:32 GMT
sc...@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote:

> Melzzzzz <m...@zzzzz.com> writes:
> >On 3/16/15 3:23 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> >> Melzzzzz <m...@zzzzz.com> writes:
> >>> http://tech.co/highest-paying-programming-languages-2015-03
> >>
> >> I suppose there are jobs where one simply programs in one
> >> language. I don't think I've ever seen one; for example,
> >> at my CPOE, programmers are expected to be proficient in
> >> assembler (AArch64, MIPS), C, C++, python, perl and shell
> >> scripting. This has been true wherever I worked starting in 1976
> >> (when the languages were PAL-D, BASIC, FOCAL, FORTRAN, COBOL,
> >> SPL/3000 and later PASCAL, C, MACRO-32, BLISS-32, BPL, SPRITE and
> >> SPRASM followed in the late 80's by C++).
> >>
> >
> >Late 80's C++? What compiler?
>
> Starting with Cfront 2.1 (before templates, before exceptions and
> before STL). Much of this was done on a motorola 88100 using PCC
> as the back-end for cfront.
>

Wow!

> >
> >> Generally we hire software engineers, not "C++ Programmers", "C
> >> programmers" or "Python programmers".
> >>
> >
> >You pay 200$ per hour?
>
> Nice non sequitor.
>
> That works out to $400,000/yr. That's high for even here in
> the valley. But it's not completely out-of-line for experienced
> senior engineers once options are factored in.

I remember back in late 90es 200$ (early 20s ?) per hour was almost
norm ;)

>

[Richard]

[Please do not mail me a copy of your followup]

Melzzzzz <m...@zzzzz.com> spake the secret code
<20150316200220.3468782b@maxa-pc> thusly:

People who get paid by the hour are called contractors and are
generally hired for short-term work. Contractors don't get any
benefits and they don't have the guarantee that they'll be employed 40
hours/week, 52 weeks/year. It is erroneous to take the hourly rate
and just convert that into 40 hrs/week, 52 weeks/year salary that
includes benefits like health insurance, life insurance, disability
insurance, etc.
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" free book <http://tinyurl.com/d3d-pipeline>
The Computer Graphics Museum <http://computergraphicsmuseum.org>
The Terminals Wiki <http://terminals.classiccmp.org>
Legalize Adulthood! (my blog) <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>

[woodb...@gmail.com]

On Monday, March 16, 2015 at 2:02:31 PM UTC-5, Melzzzzz wrote:

>
> I remember back in late 90es 200$ (early 20s ?) per hour was almost
> norm ;)
>

I think Eisenhower was the last decent President.
Between Bushes/Clinton/Obama things have gotten worse.


Brian
Ebenezer Enterprises - In G-d we trust.
http://webEbenezer.net

[Mr Flibble]

On 16/03/2015 20:24, woodb...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Monday, March 16, 2015 at 2:02:31 PM UTC-5, Melzzzzz wrote:
>
>>
>> I remember back in late 90es 200$ (early 20s ?) per hour was almost
>> norm ;)
>>
>
> I think Eisenhower was the last decent President.
> Between Bushes/Clinton/Obama things have gotten worse.

Fucking sausages mate.

/Flibble

[Vir Campestris]

On 16/03/2015 15:13, Christopher Pisz wrote:
> All my jobs have been single language for myself and my peers. In a
> Windows environment. Usually, C++ for backend and C# for front.

That's two languages... :P

I'm with the more-than-one. This week I've been writing a C++ interface
for a Java Android service that's being called from some existing C code.

Andy

[Christopher Pisz]

Well, only if you are developing both the backend and the front end with
the same people simotaneously! However, there are usually two distinct
teams for that with distinct skill sets.

I really hate it when they mix and match, because then you get some
silly willy trying to duplicate some concept from another language. Ever
seen someone try to derive everything from a base object class that does
nothing?

[Christopher Pisz]

On 3/16/2015 2:58 PM, Richard wrote:
> [Please do not mail me a copy of your followup]
>
> Melzzzzz <m...@zzzzz.com> spake the secret code
> <20150316200220.3468782b@maxa-pc> thusly:
>
>> On Mon, 16 Mar 2015 18:19:32 GMT
>> sc...@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote:
>>
>>> Melzzzzz <m...@zzzzz.com> writes:
>>>> On 3/16/15 3:23 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>> You pay 200$ per hour?
>>>
>>> Nice non sequitor.
>>>
>>> That works out to $400,000/yr. That's high for even here in
>>> the valley. But it's not completely out-of-line for experienced
>>> senior engineers once options are factored in.
>>
>> I remember back in late 90es 200$ (early 20s ?) per hour was almost
>> norm ;)
>
> People who get paid by the hour are called contractors and are
> generally hired for short-term work. Contractors don't get any
> benefits and they don't have the guarantee that they'll be employed 40
> hours/week, 52 weeks/year. It is erroneous to take the hourly rate
> and just convert that into 40 hrs/week, 52 weeks/year salary that
> includes benefits like health insurance, life insurance, disability
> insurance, etc.
>

True! Since Obamacare kicked in my insurance premiums are a good $500 a
month instead of the $120 they used to be! When I am contract. I don't
even bother with disability... It was pretty insane expensive to get
anything that would make a difference.

Also, as contract, I take way more time off, because there is no PTO
pool, you just don't come and don't get paid instead.

If I am full time employed, like I am now, thank goodness, my premiums
are a couple bucks to nothing.

[woodb...@gmail.com]

On Monday, March 16, 2015 at 3:25:51 PM UTC-5, Mr Flibble wrote:

Please don't swear here.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffreydorfman/2014/07/12/forget-debt-as-a-percent-of-gdp-its-really-much-worse/

[Mr Flibble]

On 16/03/2015 23:29, woodb...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Monday, March 16, 2015 at 3:25:51 PM UTC-5, Mr Flibble wrote:
>
> Please don't swear here.

'This video may contain sexual swearwords, I'm afraid. There are 28
'fucks'. Including that one 29. Ah, fuck it, make it 30.' -- Paul Calf

/Flibble

[Scott Lurndal]

woodb...@gmail.com writes:
>On Monday, March 16, 2015 at 2:02:31 PM UTC-5, Melzzzzz wrote:
>
>>
>> I remember back in late 90es 200$ (early 20s ?) per hour was almost
>> norm ;)
>>
>
>I think Eisenhower was the last decent President.
>Between Bushes/Clinton/Obama things have gotten worse.
>

Please don't politicize this newsgroup.

[Ian Collins]

Richard wrote:
>
> People who get paid by the hour are called contractors and are
> generally hired for short-term work. Contractors don't get any
> benefits and they don't have the guarantee that they'll be employed 40
> hours/week, 52 weeks/year. It is erroneous to take the hourly rate
> and just convert that into 40 hrs/week, 52 weeks/year salary that
> includes benefits like health insurance, life insurance, disability
> insurance, etc.

Those of us who contract in civilised countries with decent public
healthcare get the best of both worlds!

--
Ian Collins

[Christopher Pisz]

Where you living Ian? I want to get citizenship elsewhere before I die.

[Ian Collins]

Christopher Pisz wrote:
> On 3/17/2015 10:52 PM, Ian Collins wrote:
>> Richard wrote:
>>>
>>> People who get paid by the hour are called contractors and are
>>> generally hired for short-term work. Contractors don't get any
>>> benefits and they don't have the guarantee that they'll be employed 40
>>> hours/week, 52 weeks/year. It is erroneous to take the hourly rate
>>> and just convert that into 40 hrs/week, 52 weeks/year salary that
>>> includes benefits like health insurance, life insurance, disability
>>> insurance, etc.
>>
>> Those of us who contract in civilised countries with decent public
>> healthcare get the best of both worlds!
>>
>
> Where you living Ian? I want to get citizenship elsewhere before I die.

New Zealand

--
Ian Collins

[woodb...@gmail.com]

In the US we had a better healthcare before the
government got into it. I'm not sure why anyone
believed Obama when he said things like, "If you
like your doctor you can keep your doctor."

Brian
Ebenezer Enterprises
http://webEbenezer.net

[Scott Lurndal]

Please keep fucking politics out of this newsgroup.

You're wrong, btw.

[woodb...@gmail.com]

[Mr Flibble]

On 18/03/2015 19:57, woodb...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, March 18, 2015 at 2:40:51 PM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>
> Please don't swear here.

[Chris Vine]

Sorry this is a C++ newsgroup and not a politics newsgroup. If you
start posting off topic, then you have to take a few fucks in your
stride. There are plenty of news groups catering for right wing nut
jobs which are available to you.

Grow up a little why don't you?

Chris

[Christopher Pisz]

On 3/18/2015 3:40 PM, Chris Vine wrote:
> On Wed, 18 Mar 2015 12:57:07 -0700 (PDT)
> woodb...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Wednesday, March 18, 2015 at 2:40:51 PM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>
>> Please don't swear here.
>

> SNIP...groups catering for right wing nut jobs... SNIP

>
> Grow up a little why don't you?
>
> Chris
>

Are there no newsgroups catering to left wing nut jobs, centrist nut
jobs, or sane radicals?

I'm just joking around, but the statement you made seems a
little...what's the word? contrary, ironic, something or other..

[Chris Vine]

On Wed, 18 Mar 2015 16:42:08 -0500
Christopher Pisz <nos...@notanaddress.com> wrote:

> On 3/18/2015 3:40 PM, Chris Vine wrote:
> > On Wed, 18 Mar 2015 12:57:07 -0700 (PDT)
> > woodb...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> On Wednesday, March 18, 2015 at 2:40:51 PM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> Please don't swear here.
> >
> > SNIP...groups catering for right wing nut jobs... SNIP
> >
> > Grow up a little why don't you?
> >
> > Chris
> >
>
> Are there no newsgroups catering to left wing nut jobs, centrist nut
> jobs, or sane radicals?
>
> I'm just joking around, but the statement you made seems a
> little...what's the word? contrary, ironic, something or other..

I have missed your contrarian irony: I have no idea what you are talking
about. Brian appears to be neither a left wing nut job nor a centrist
nut job - unless you have evidence to the contrary I doubt such groups
would be to his taste.

[Drew Lawson]

In article <mecre2$dqr$1...@dont-email.me>

Christopher Pisz <nos...@notanaddress.com> writes:
>On 3/18/2015 3:40 PM, Chris Vine wrote:
>> On Wed, 18 Mar 2015 12:57:07 -0700 (PDT)
>> woodb...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, March 18, 2015 at 2:40:51 PM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>
>>> Please don't swear here.
>>
>> SNIP...groups catering for right wing nut jobs... SNIP
>>
>> Grow up a little why don't you?
>>
>> Chris
>>
>
>Are there no newsgroups catering to left wing nut jobs, centrist nut
>jobs, or sane radicals?

No, all nut jobs are right wing.
The left wing has cranks.

The centrists are too busy debating which is rarer,
them or unicorns.

--
Drew Lawson | We were taking a vote when
| the ground came up and hit us.
| -- Cylon warrior

[Bo Persson]

Some of you had decent healthcare, and some of you didn't have any.
Those of us living elsewhere can't see why this was good.


Bo Persson

[David Brown]

The same applies to most of Europe. Healthcare, public or private, is
never perfect, but in most European countries you get solid public
health care without having to have private health insurance - it is all
covered by your standard taxes.

[David Brown]

By a process of elimination, that means you classify Brian as a "sane
radical" !

Anyway, the newsgroup you are looking for is sci.electronics.design.
Occasional electronics or technical subjects are allowed, but for the
most part it is a home for grumpy old right-wing Americans complaining
about the state of their health insurance and the nasty global warming
conspirators who want to take away their monster trucks. Sometimes the
debates can be quite interesting, if you don't take them too seriously -
as long as they don't get swamped by the three or four regulars who only
post insults. (Brian beware - swearing /is/ allowed in s.e.d., and you
will have no chance of stopping it.)

[Chris Vine]

On Sun, 22 Mar 2015 11:12:14 +0100
David Brown <david...@hesbynett.no> wrote:
[snip]

> By a process of elimination, that means you classify Brian as a "sane
> radical" !
>
> Anyway, the newsgroup you are looking for is sci.electronics.design.
> Occasional electronics or technical subjects are allowed, but for the
> most part it is a home for grumpy old right-wing Americans
> complaining about the state of their health insurance and the nasty
> global warming conspirators who want to take away their monster
> trucks. Sometimes the debates can be quite interesting, if you don't
> take them too seriously - as long as they don't get swamped by the
> three or four regulars who only post insults. (Brian beware -
> swearing /is/ allowed in s.e.d., and you will have no chance of
> stopping it.)

No, I just discounted the "sane radical" option as too absurd to
contemplate.

I believe history has proven me to be right. He has since claimed a
divine mandate for leading future C++ development efforts ('I claim
to represent the "clear vision" alternative that Scott talks about'):

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.lang.c++/5q7jqe6GPiA

which ridiculously overestimates his programming abilities and seems
evidence of mild mental illness and a messiah complex.

And he has since posted at great length that "I'm letting others know
the source of my help" which is off topic and seems designed to
undermine christian faith by making it laughable. As a christian, I
find it all quite painful.

Brian needs to fuck off.

Chris

[Martijn Lievaart]

On Sun, 22 Mar 2015 11:06:17 +0100, David Brown wrote:

> The same applies to most of Europe. Healthcare, public or private, is
> never perfect, but in most European countries you get solid public
> health care without having to have private health insurance - it is all
> covered by your standard taxes.

Well, not in the Netherlands, and I think actually not that many other
countries.

What we have is a mandated basic health insurance. This basic health
insurance provides the same basis at every insurance company. You can
choose the insurance company, you can choose extra health insurance
programs, you can choose your but you cannot choose not to be insured.

Sounds to me just like Obamacare, but I don't know enough about Obamacare
to say if they are actually alike.

By the way, there is a very good reason why it is set up like this. If
you provide free health care (pay by tax is very indirect), people will
not use it as the precious resource it is. By making them pay every month
(and raising that yearly, or not) people are more aware of the cost and
will (in general) be more conscious.

M4

[David Brown]

On 23/03/15 08:45, Martijn Lievaart wrote:
> On Sun, 22 Mar 2015 11:06:17 +0100, David Brown wrote:
>
>> The same applies to most of Europe. Healthcare, public or private, is
>> never perfect, but in most European countries you get solid public
>> health care without having to have private health insurance - it is all
>> covered by your standard taxes.
>
> Well, not in the Netherlands, and I think actually not that many other
> countries.
>
> What we have is a mandated basic health insurance. This basic health
> insurance provides the same basis at every insurance company. You can
> choose the insurance company, you can choose extra health insurance
> programs, you can choose your but you cannot choose not to be insured.
>

The mandated health insurance (which is a common model in Europe) is a
tax by a different name. You pay a certain amount, either a fixed sum
per person or a percentage of your income (or a combination), to a state
body. It is not dependent on your state of health, and does not come
with different options. It's a tax. Most European countries have a
similar thing that covers unemployment benefits, etc. In the UK, it's
called "National Insurance". But since it is handled like a tax, and
collected like a tax, it's easier just to refer to it as a tax.

In addition, you can also choose to arrange for a third-party private
health insurance - but that is in addition to the state mandated "tax".
This is a normal private commercial insurance system - companies charge
what the market will pay, they make a profit from it, and the insured
person can use it for private medical care beyond the public health
service (such as to get a nicer room, better food, quicker treatment,
etc.). European countries are capitalist economies - there are people
happy to pay for additional health care, and therefore companies happy
to provide that service.

But it is all on top of the full coverage public health system paid for
by taxes (even if the tax is called "health insurance"). And although
no health care system is perfect, European governments strive to give as
good public health care as possible at a reasonable public cost, and
they usually do quite well.

> Sounds to me just like Obamacare, but I don't know enough about Obamacare
> to say if they are actually alike.

I believe Obama wanted to make such a system, but the forces against it
in the USA are too strong. Too many people there would rather that
/their/ money went to paying for /their/ health care, and not spread
around amongst everyone. The people with power and money, who can
currently afford world-class health care in the USA, fear that that
quality will be reduced if there is a move to public health care. And
there is a vast industry in the USA involving health care insurance and
payments - there are armies of insurance salesmen, accountants, lawyers,
administrators, bankers, who all depend on the flow of health care money
for their jobs. Of course, they are part of the reason why the US
spends more than twice as much per capita on health care than other
developed countries, yet is rated so low in the average quality of the
health care. (There are /many/ reasons for this - the extraordinary
inefficiency of the health insurance system is just one part.) There is
also the idea that public health care is socialist, and therefore
practically communist, and goes against the "American spirit" of working
for your own reward.

The inevitable result is that Obamacare /added/ to this system, as yet
another health insurance option, rather than revolutionising it, and I
believe most statistics show that the total health care costs in the USA
have gone up. I don't know whether or not it has led to better average
health care - I think it's too early to tell.

>
> By the way, there is a very good reason why it is set up like this. If
> you provide free health care (pay by tax is very indirect), people will
> not use it as the precious resource it is. By making them pay every month
> (and raising that yearly, or not) people are more aware of the cost and
> will (in general) be more conscious.
>

There may be psychological reasons for calling the financing "public
health insurance" rather than "tax", but I suspect it is more about
keeping budgets somewhat separate to ensure that the public health
service gets fairly consistent financing despite variations on the main
state finances.