neoGFX Design Studio

[Mr Flibble]

Hi!

Work has begun in earnest on neoGFX Design Studio:

https://neogfx.org/images/designstudio.png

/Flibble

--
¬

[Chris M. Thomasson]

On 9/8/2020 4:00 PM, Mr Flibble wrote:
> Hi!
>
> Work has begun in earnest on neoGFX Design Studio:
>
> https://neogfx.org/images/designstudio.png

Looks pretty slick. :^)

[Bonita Montero]

Am 09.09.2020 um 01:00 schrieb Mr Flibble:
> Hi!
> Work has begun in earnest on neoGFX Design Studio:
> https://neogfx.org/images/designstudio.png

So much work - and almost no one will use it.

[Alf P. Steinbach]

That's a very mean comment.

I sincerely hope that neoGFX gets a large user base.

However, there is an example, the Ultimate C++ IDE & framework, where
despite obviously a large investment of work and time, and despite being
open source with a team behind it, it remains a fringe thing. I never
even tried it. <url: https://www.ultimatepp.org/>.

So how can Leigh avoid that fate?

He's tried creating a video about it, and so on, but I think he needs to
get an established user base. Maybe starting with students and their
teachers. Make available complete examples to try out, make it easy to
install and use the the library (if possible, easier than CMake).

- Alf

[rick.c...@gmail.com]

On 9/9/20 12:25 AM, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> On 09.09.2020 06:10, Bonita Montero wrote:
>> Am 09.09.2020 um 01:00 schrieb Mr Flibble:
>>> Hi!
>>> Work has begun in earnest on neoGFX Design Studio:
>>> https://neogfx.org/images/designstudio.png
>>
>> So much work - and almost no one will use it.
>
> That's a very mean comment.

Yes it is.

> I sincerely hope that neoGFX gets a large user base.

Leigh's work looks solid. I think he will have a notable success.

> However, there is an example, the Ultimate C++ IDE & framework, where
> despite obviously a large investment of work and time, and despite being
> open source with a team behind it, it remains a fringe thing. I never
> even tried it. <url: https://www.ultimatepp.org/>.
>
> So how can Leigh avoid that fate?
>
> He's tried creating a video about it, and so on, but I think he needs to
> get an established user base. Maybe starting with students and their
> teachers. Make available complete examples to try out, make it easy to
> install and use the the library (if possible, easier than CMake).
>
> - Alf

He should accept Jesus Christ as His Lord and Savior, and release the
work open-source allowing people to take his initial offering and then
build a community around it. He should brand it as an offering unto
the Lord, and he would receive a reward for such a gift to people in
Christ's name in Heaven.

Serving Jesus in this world is not improper. It's what God expects and
commands us to do. It's only the enemy of God who teaches otherwise.
We do right when we look up to God and do not rely upon ourselves alone,
but instead seek to bring honor and glory to His Kingdom by our choices
here in this fallen-in-sin world.

I'm quite serious about this, by the way. Look at how the depravity
in this world is multiplying. In America it's becoming unruly, and I
read it's similar everywhere, even worse in many places.

Jesus taught us it would be like this in the end-most times, but that
doesn't mean we're supposed to participate in it. He wants us to still
serve Him in this world, and to shine our light (flex our skills and
abilities) for Him and His Kingdom in this world, not for money or some
other things that will exist only here on Earth and then perish.

Think of God when you are deciding what to do with your life. Make
conscious choices to serve and honor Him. You will receive less reward
from your fellow man down here, but you will be doing right in God's
sight and will not lose your reward in eternity.

--
Rick C. Hodgin

[David Brown]

(Caveat - I haven't looked much at the library or webpages, simply
because it is not the kind of tool that is useful for me. Most of my
user interfaces are blinking LED's and push-buttons, rather than guis on
a PC. But I can see it being useful to many others, and maybe it will
be useful to me too in the future.)

Establishing a user base is certainly key. One thing is that it can
build up a reputation and spread recommendations amongst forums. The
other is that it is vital for feedback and making sure the project is
actually suitable for a wider base. At the moment, reports I have seen
here are all positive about the code and the appearance of the library
and tools so far. But if it is going to be be useful for many people,
then it's important to get many people to test it - otherwise you risk
ending up with a library that is perfect in the eyes of the author while
being awkward or limited in the eyes of others.

Another important point is to establish a team. Correct me if I'm
wrong, but this project is Mr. Flibble's alone, with a little outside
help in making some icons. That is not sustainable in the long term.
If people are going to use this system for anything serious, they need
to know that there is a team behind it. They need to know they still
get support and fixes while Mr. Flibble is on holiday, and that the
project will continue if he decides to move to the Andes to become a
llama farmer instead of a programmer. And the project needs people
involved in documentation, graphics design, marketing, etc. (Mr.
Flibble may also be good at these - though the skill sets are usually
somewhat separate - but there are limited hours in the day for any one
person.)

All these things are difficult to build up - and they are difficult in a
different way than designing the code and library.


Building up a base of "amateurs" - small users, students, etc., is one
possible route. But unless he also gets some "power users" who will
help out (without pay) in support forums or groups, there is a risk that
supporting and helping these users will take up too much time and leave
him unable to work on the project itself.

My recommendation (easy to say, hard to do!) would therefore be towards
getting a single good commercial corporate user interested in the
library. That would give immediately useful professional feedback on
what other users need from the tools, and a commercial contract. For a
customer company with a bit of size, this could easily have huge
potential savings compared to them buying commercial QT licenses for a
developer group - enough that it is worth the risk for them, even with a
contract size that is a large amount for Mr. Flibble's company. With
that contract in place, he can get other financial investors, hire some
people, and make a serious go of it as a commercial open source product.


However he does it, I too wish him luck with the project - it has a lot
of potential, and I think Mr. Flibble has enough practicality and
realism to make it work.

[Chris M. Thomasson]

On 9/9/2020 12:51 AM, David Brown wrote:
> On 09/09/2020 06:25, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
>> On 09.09.2020 06:10, Bonita Montero wrote:
>>> Am 09.09.2020 um 01:00 schrieb Mr Flibble:
>>>> Hi!
>>>> Work has begun in earnest on neoGFX Design Studio:
>>>> https://neogfx.org/images/designstudio.png
>>>
>>> So much work - and almost no one will use it.
>>
>> That's a very mean comment.
>>
>> I sincerely hope that neoGFX gets a large user base.
>>
>> However, there is an example, the Ultimate C++ IDE & framework, where
>> despite obviously a large investment of work and time, and despite being
>> open source with a team behind it, it remains a fringe thing. I never
>> even tried it. <url: https://www.ultimatepp.org/>.
>>
>> So how can Leigh avoid that fate?
>>
>> He's tried creating a video about it, and so on, but I think he needs to
>> get an established user base. Maybe starting with students and their
>> teachers. Make available complete examples to try out, make it easy to
>> install and use the the library (if possible, easier than CMake).
>>
>
> (Caveat - I haven't looked much at the library or webpages, simply
> because it is not the kind of tool that is useful for me. Most of my
> user interfaces are blinking LED's and push-buttons, rather than guis on
> a PC. But I can see it being useful to many others, and maybe it will
> be useful to me too in the future.)

[...]

Simulating the blinking LED's and push buttons might be useful? The GUI
user interface can look just like the device. Think of a GUI for a
device in 3d. You can spin it around... Hook up cords, test the lights,
push buttons... Would that kind of be useful to you?

[Chris M. Thomasson]

Basically, you can simulate it... Get it working, then upload the
program to the device, and test again. Do something on the device, and
do the same thing in the simulator. Compare notes...

[David Brown]

I realise that kind of thing can be useful for some embedded work - but
not for the kind of thing I usually do.

It's a lot more likely that I'd find the library useful in connection
with a screen attached to an embedded Linux system. That is certainly
the kind of thing some of our customers are interested in, but nothing I
am expecting to be working on in the foreseeable future.

[Chris M. Thomasson]

On 9/9/2020 11:43 PM, David Brown wrote:
> On 09/09/2020 23:09, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
>> On 9/9/2020 12:51 AM, David Brown wrote:
>
>>>
>>> (Caveat - I haven't looked much at the library or webpages, simply
>>> because it is not the kind of tool that is useful for me.  Most of my
>>> user interfaces are blinking LED's and push-buttons, rather than guis on
>>> a PC.  But I can see it being useful to many others, and maybe it will
>>> be useful to me too in the future.)
>> [...]
>>
>> Simulating the blinking LED's and push buttons might be useful? The GUI
>> user interface can look just like the device. Think of a GUI for a
>> device in 3d. You can spin it around... Hook up cords, test the lights,
>> push buttons... Would that kind of be useful to you?
>>
>
> I realise that kind of thing can be useful for some embedded work - but
> not for the kind of thing I usually do.

A 100% full blown device simulator. The GUI has 3d graphics. The device
can be played with. Programs can can be uploaded to the real hardware at
will. Then tested, and see if the simulator was correct after all in
real time.

>
> It's a lot more likely that I'd find the library useful in connection
> with a screen attached to an embedded Linux system. That is certainly
> the kind of thing some of our customers are interested in, but nothing I
> am expecting to be working on in the foreseeable future.
>

Damn.