[OT] Tech workers are terrified they will be sacked for being too old

[Cholo Lennon]

I know that some people here are older than me (forty something), do you
feel the same? at least in my country, some tech companies are starting
to hire developers younger than 35 :-O


"Survey: Tech workers are terrified they will be sacked for being too old"

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/10/19/tech_workers_terrified_theyll_age_out/


--
Cholo Lennon
Bs.As.
ARG

[Ian Collins]

At least in this this part of the world, the headline is utter nonsense.


--
Ian

[Vir Campestris]

On 19/10/2017 20:04, Cholo Lennon wrote:
> I know that some people here are older than me (forty something), do you
> feel the same? at least in my country, some tech companies are starting
> to hire developers younger than 35 :-O

It's an old problem. But just FYI - in the last 5 years I've been made
redundant (company changed direction) got a new job, had that company
shut down the division, got another job, left in disgust and got another
job. I've not been unemployed in the whole time.

I'm a pure techy - no staff reporting to me - and my kids are 35...

Andy

[Öö Tiib]

What we have feels like symptoms of bubble. Wasn't dot-com bubble
20 years ago about 1997 and busted 2001? Money is easy to raise during
bubble and so who they hire likely depends on what is the plan of
business. Again piles of insane web sites (now "SaaS"/"cloud")
stupid programs (now "Apps"/"IoT") and moronic chat and spam bots
(now "AI"/"machine learning").

Opportunists who want to ride on that bubble do not want to hire those
who experienced previous burst. What to do with someone who likely
will see through that the buzzword poop won't fly too long? They need
people who believe that they do genial things and work for next Steve
Jobs. Workers who struggle hard to add polish to whatever hopeless
mock-up mirage are the power that helps to get the hopes up and
investments going.

Other companies that make actually competitive products and real
profits (not investments on buzzword projections) will continue to
have diverse employee base. Also those won't likely snap whenever
the bubble will fusillade. ;-)

[jacobnavia]

Well, I remember a job interview:

She: What? You are 45 years old?

Me: Well, my date of birthday is in the first line of my CV. Did you
read it at all?

She: Well, that's too old for us.

Me: Yes, I know. It is terrible to be 45 years old. I hope that will
never arrive to you. I hope you die as soon as possible.

End of interview.

[bartc]

I'd been working with clients for several years before I went to visit
for the first time.

When they saw me, it was something like, Ah, you're older than I
expected, I thought you were much younger!

I was 35.

(TBF they were Dutch so perhaps not as skilled in speaking English
tactfully.)

--
bart

[Melzzzzz]

I don't have problems with my age (48), because usually they approach me
via mail. There are companies which value experience, and that is
difficult to find in this script kiddie times ;)

--
press any key to continue or any other to quit...

[Pascal J. Bourguignon]

:-)


--
__Pascal J. Bourguignon
http://www.informatimago.com

[Chris M. Thomasson]

So far so good wrt age: 40. Started off with basic at a young age, < 10,
less than 6 on an Atari! Basic and PILOT cartridges, and a tape device
to save my programs. Created many experiments. ;^)

[Melzzzzz]

I started with zx spectrum 48k in 1983 when I was 14 ;)
Of course you had to learn basic as it was interface to computer ;)
These computers nowadays does not make programmers any more...

[Richard Damon]

I've been programming for more than 40 years, so I suppose I qualify. I
have totally nore concern about my age affecting my employability. Good
experience is invaluable, and a young worker can't have a lot of it,
because they haven't been working that long.

The younger worker might have comparable, or even more experience with
newer languages or programming styles (you can't have more experience in
something they it has been out), but the more experienced worker may
still have have some extra applicable experience from related things.

For a company that focuses on cutting edge tools/methods (which isn't
the same as cutting edge ideas/innovation) there may be a real desire
for a younger worker. Also an older worker who has shown themselves to
be only 'average' might be well concerned as a lot of places really are
looking for the exceptional person.

[woodb...@gmail.com]

For those in that situation, I suggest they keep calm
and carry on. I have an offer to help someone who is
willing to use my software here:
http://webEbenezer.net/about.html

. I'll spend 16 hours a week on such a project and there's
a $3,000 reward for a successful reference. They can refer
themselves and get both the help and the money.


Brian
Ebenezer Enterprises - In G-d we trust.
http://webEbenezer.net

[Jorgen Grahn]

On Thu, 2017-10-19, Öö Tiib wrote:
> On Thursday, 19 October 2017 22:04:23 UTC+3, Cholo Lennon wrote:
>> I know that some people here are older than me (forty something), do you
>> feel the same? at least in my country, some tech companies are starting
>> to hire developers younger than 35 :-O
>>
>> "Survey: Tech workers are terrified they will be sacked for being too old"
>>
>> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/10/19/tech_workers_terrified_theyll_age_out/
>
> What we have feels like symptoms of bubble. Wasn't dot-com bubble
> 20 years ago about 1997 and busted 2001?

Yes, it was. I hated that bubble; I did useless things which never
got anywhere. Work was much more fun after it burst.

[snip amusing rant]

/Jorgen

--
// Jorgen Grahn <grahn@ Oo o. . .
\X/ snipabacken.se> O o .

[Mr. Man-wai Chang]

On 20/10/2017 3:04 AM, Cholo Lennon wrote:
> I know that some people here are older than me (forty something), do you
> feel the same? at least in my country, some tech companies are starting
> to hire developers younger than 35 :-O

Old persons, be them slaves or not, are always being pushed around. It
has nothing to do with the jobs nor technology. This has never changed!

--
@~@ Remain silent! Drink, Blink, Stretch! Live long and prosper!!
/ v \ Simplicity is Beauty!
/( _ )\ May the Force and farces be with you!
^ ^ (x86_64 Ubuntu 9.10) Linux 2.6.39.3
不借貸! 不詐騙! 不援交! 不打交! 不打劫! 不自殺! 請考慮綜援 (CSSA):
http://www.swd.gov.hk/tc/index/site_pubsvc/page_socsecu/sub_addressesa

[woodb...@gmail.com]

On Thursday, October 19, 2017 at 4:41:02 PM UTC-5, Öö Tiib wrote:

>
> What we have feels like symptoms of bubble. Wasn't dot-com bubble
> 20 years ago about 1997 and busted 2001? Money is easy to raise during
> bubble and so who they hire likely depends on what is the plan of
> business. Again piles of insane web sites (now "SaaS"/"cloud")

I also think this is a bubble which is likely to burst soon,
but think those hardest hit will be those who have not embraced
SaaS. Disclaimer: I've been investing in SaaS for over 18 years.


Brian
Ebenezer Enterprises - Enjoying programming again.
http://webEbenezer.net

[Richard]

[Please do not mail me a copy of your followup]

Cholo Lennon <cholo...@hotmail.com> spake the secret code
<osasv8$1o4o$1...@gioia.aioe.org> thusly:

TL;DR: IMO the biggest threat to your job security is not keeping your
skill set current.

I don't know of any companies around here (Salt Lake City, UT) that have
done this explicitly, so much as it has happened de facto. By that I
mean, someone forms a web startup and happens to hire only entry level
personnel because that's all they need as they have a CTO that is taking
on the responsibility of all the senior level tasks. That's fine for
a small team. Once the company gets larger, they start looking to hire
more senior people to offload the CTO. If the CTO is really smart and not
looking to just minimize the budget, then they hire experienced people to
start with, hopefully people that are smarter or more knowledgeable in a
particular area than the CTO themselves. But lots of people when doing
startups focus on the budget and less experienced people are cheaper.

Less experienced people tend to be younger because not many people
start out a programming career at age 40, although it's been known to
happen.

A friend of mine (I don't know his exact age, but I assume he is at least
5 years older than me) has had grey hair for many years. Probably since
his late 30s or early 40s. At some point I noticed that he started
dying his hair brown again. This was when he was changing jobs fairly
frequently. I assume that he decided it was simply advantageous to not
look older on a first impression, although I have never asked him about
it explicitly. Maybe he just did it because his wife asked :).

I recently was laid off and went through a job search again. I
interviewed at various places. One of them was a web app firm doing
JavaScript front end with React and Ruby on Rails back end, doing TDD
and pair programming all day long. I'm pretty sure I would have been
the oldest employee there had I taken the job. The subject of
relative age didn't matter at all, they clearly valued my experience
and it didn't even matter that I hadn't done any production work in
Ruby as they were more interested in design skills and so-on than
experience in a particular technology or stack. The interview was an
all day pairing session with two different people, back end in the
morning and front end in the afternoon.

In the end I got a job in 3D graphics, my preferred area, in C++. But
I would have been plenty happy working at the web app company because
it was a great team. I ended up referring a colleague to them that
they did hire and are very happy with.

I've been working in the Salt Lake City market since 1988 and have
been through all the economic cycles during that time. Anyone that
was a good engineer has never been unemployed any longer than they
wanted to be. (Sometimes you just want to take a break.) Different
markets have different circumstances, naturally. SLC is diversified
enough in opportunities that it seems there are always plenty of
options here, even if you want to stay only in C++. I've been more
open to other languages having done C# and Java stints for 5 years
each at various companies.
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" free book <http://tinyurl.com/d3d-pipeline>
The Terminals Wiki <http://terminals-wiki.org>
The Computer Graphics Museum <http://computergraphicsmuseum.org>
Legalize Adulthood! (my blog) <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>

[Gareth Owen]

jacobnavia <ja...@jacob.remcomp.fr> writes:

> Well, I remember a job interview:
>
> She: What? You are 45 years old?
>
> Me: Well, my date of birthday is in the first line of my CV. Did
> you read it at all?
>
> She: Well, that's too old for us.
>
> Me: Yes, I know. It is terrible to be 45 years old. I hope that will
> never arrive to you. I hope you die as soon as possible.
>
> End of interview.

Amusing, and if this happened in the EU, all kinds of illegal.

[Mr Flibble]

On 20/10/2017 17:47, woodb...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, October 19, 2017 at 4:41:02 PM UTC-5, Öö Tiib wrote:
>
>>
>> What we have feels like symptoms of bubble. Wasn't dot-com bubble
>> 20 years ago about 1997 and busted 2001? Money is easy to raise during
>> bubble and so who they hire likely depends on what is the plan of
>> business. Again piles of insane web sites (now "SaaS"/"cloud")
>
>
> I also think this is a bubble which is likely to burst soon,
> but think those hardest hit will be those who have not embraced
> SaaS. Disclaimer: I've been investing in SaaS for over 18 years.

Give. It. A. Fucking. Rest. Brian.

/Flibble

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On Saturday, October 21, 2017 at 11:24:22 AM UTC-4, Mr Flibble wrote:
> Give. It. A. .. . Rest. Brian.
>
> /Flibble

Leigh, when you come to accept Christ and He changes you from the
inside out, you will weep with ferocity over the way you harmed
your Lord and Savior by your general ways. It will cause you much
pain and agony to know what Christ endured on that cross to save you
in your sin. You will weep like you never wept before ... wrenchingly
even. With a pain from so deep inside even.

That was my experience from when I used to treat people as you do.
It broke my heart when I could see my actions through proper eyes,
through the eyes of Christ.

Thank you,
Rick C. Hodgin

[Chris M. Thomasson]

Nice!

> Of course you had to learn basic as it was interface to computer ;)

Fwiw, programming BASIC was very fun to me, as was Logo and PILOT.
Actually, before I knew programming, there was this nagging feeling in
the back of my head: Wanted to figure out how the damn games were
created! Got a Atari 800XL around 1983. Then moved onto Apple IIGS
several years later. Check this out:

http://www.calormen.com/jsbasic
(AppleSoft BASIC Online...)

;^)

> These computers nowadays does not make programmers any more...

Perhaps.

[woodb...@gmail.com]

On Saturday, October 21, 2017 at 10:24:22 AM UTC-5, Mr Flibble wrote:

Please don't swear here.


Brian
Ebenezer Enterprises

[Melzzzzz]

On 2017-10-22, woodb...@gmail.com <woodb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Saturday, October 21, 2017 at 10:24:22 AM UTC-5, Mr Flibble wrote:
>
> Please don't swear here.

Swearing is usenet privilege...
>
>
> Brian
> Ebenezer Enterprises

[David Brown]

On 20/10/17 18:47, woodb...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, October 19, 2017 at 4:41:02 PM UTC-5, Öö Tiib wrote:
>
>>
>> What we have feels like symptoms of bubble. Wasn't dot-com bubble
>> 20 years ago about 1997 and busted 2001? Money is easy to raise during
>> bubble and so who they hire likely depends on what is the plan of
>> business. Again piles of insane web sites (now "SaaS"/"cloud")
>
>
> I also think this is a bubble which is likely to burst soon,
> but think those hardest hit will be those who have not embraced
> SaaS. Disclaimer: I've been investing in SaaS for over 18 years.
>

Your continuous thoughtless, desparate and out-of-context evangelism
drives people away from you, your website, your software, and your pet
ideas about SaaS. If any regular from this newsgroup sees a company or
site offering online code generation, or software-as-a-service, their
first reaction is going be "that's the stuff Woodbrian was peddling on
c.l.c++ - I'll stay away from that".

I am not a great fan of Mr. Flibble's choice of vocabulary, but he has
an excellent point.

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On Sunday, October 22, 2017 at 11:23:29 AM UTC-4, David Brown wrote:
> Your continuous thoughtless, desparate and out-of-context evangelism

> drives people away from ...

David, when you come to accept Christ and He changes you from the

[David Brown]

On 22/10/17 17:57, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> On Sunday, October 22, 2017 at 11:23:29 AM UTC-4, David Brown wrote:
>> Your continuous thoughtless, desparate and out-of-context evangelism
>> drives people away from ...
>

It was Brian's evangelism of his SaaS ideas that I was referring to in
this post - not your religious evangelism, nor related evangelism (such
as Brian's worse-than-useless campaign against swearing).

Of course, exactly the same comment applies to those cases as well - if
my post made you feel guilty, then good.

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On Sunday, October 22, 2017 at 12:10:04 PM UTC-4, David Brown wrote:
> if my post made you feel guilty, then good.

It made me feel sad, David. For you.

[woodb...@gmail.com]

On Sunday, October 22, 2017 at 10:23:29 AM UTC-5, David Brown wrote:
>
> Your continuous thoughtless, desparate and out-of-context evangelism
> drives people away from you, your website, your software, and your pet
> ideas about SaaS. If any regular from this newsgroup sees a company or
> site offering online code generation, or software-as-a-service, their
> first reaction is going be "that's the stuff Woodbrian was peddling on
> c.l.c++ - I'll stay away from that".
>
> I am not a great fan of Mr. Flibble's choice of vocabulary, but he has
> an excellent point.

I think we disagree on this:
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/the-seven-noachide-laws


Brian
Ebenezer Enterprises - "The wicked wait in ambush for the G-dly,
looking for an excuse to kill them." Psalms 37:32

http://webEbenezer.net

[Ben Bacarisse]

David Brown <david...@hesbynett.no> writes:
<snip>

> Of course, exactly the same comment applies to those cases as well -
> if my post made you feel guilty, then good.

A peculiar irony about Rick's proselytising is that it's inherently
selfish. I don't think Rick would want to read the groups he posts in
if *everyone* behaved as he does. The groups would be awash with
off-topic posts. He gets to say what he likes *and* read a technical
group by exploiting the restraint and good behaviour of everyone else.

--
Ben.

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On Sunday, October 22, 2017 at 2:03:43 PM UTC-4, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
> I don't think Rick would want to read the groups he posts in
> if *everyone* behaved as he does. The groups would be awash with
> off-topic posts.

I long for the day people are talking about Jesus as a
matter of standard course through their daily lives.

I take my cues from Jesus, Ben. It is only sin which
teaches posts leading people to Him are off topic. You
are following sin, Ben.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+28%3A18-20&version=KJV

Jesus asks us to teach you, Ben, so you too can be saved. He
doesn't want to judge you for sin, but forgive you.

Watch the portrayal when the young woman accepts Christ, the
look on His face. This is a good teaching movie on the love
of Christ:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKu71MUIalw

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On Sunday, October 22, 2017 at 2:03:43 PM UTC-4, Ben Bacarisse wrote:

> [snip]
> Ben.

I thought of you when I saw this, Ben:

Not to mock, but to engage:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hh_uAW5PTmA&t=25m50sw

The goal for Christians is teaching, Ben. We prayerfully move,
always pointing people to Christ so they too could be loved
into salvation, by shining His light into the darkness in their
life.

We all need this, myself included, even me in October 2017.

[Mr Flibble]

On 22/10/2017 18:36, woodb...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, October 22, 2017 at 10:23:29 AM UTC-5, David Brown wrote:
>>
>> Your continuous thoughtless, desparate and out-of-context evangelism
>> drives people away from you, your website, your software, and your pet
>> ideas about SaaS. If any regular from this newsgroup sees a company or
>> site offering online code generation, or software-as-a-service, their
>> first reaction is going be "that's the stuff Woodbrian was peddling on
>> c.l.c++ - I'll stay away from that".
>>
>> I am not a great fan of Mr. Flibble's choice of vocabulary, but he has
>> an excellent point.
>
> I think we disagree on this:
> https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/the-seven-noachide-laws

A shining example of how to be deliberately obtuse.

/Flibble

[Vir Campestris]

Oh, I don't know - I agree with about half of them...

SaaS has its place. It's not in any software I work on directly though.
And I don't see how it could be. (bootloader as a service, anyone?)

Andy

[Gareth Owen]

Ben Bacarisse <ben.u...@bsb.me.uk> writes:

> David Brown <david...@hesbynett.no> writes:
> <snip>
>> Of course, exactly the same comment applies to those cases as well -
>> if my post made you feel guilty, then good.
>
> A peculiar irony about Rick's proselytising is that it's inherently
> selfish. I don't think Rick would want to read the groups he posts in
> if *everyone* behaved as he does.

For Rick to even consider for one second a subtle philosophical point
like that, he'd have to renounce his very nature. When you know better
than everyone else, you don't have to worry about the categorical
imperative.

[Gareth Owen]

Vir Campestris <vir.cam...@invalid.invalid> writes:

> Oh, I don't know - I agree with about half of them...

A set of laws that puts murder on a par with homosexuality has no place
in the 21st century.

[Mr Flibble]

Sadly Brian has shown on multiple occasions (including this one) that he
is a bigoted, misogynist homophobic cunt (behaviour typical of most
proselytising Christians).

/Flibble

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On Sunday, October 22, 2017 at 4:43:53 PM UTC-4, gwowen wrote:
> For Rick to even consider for one second a subtle philosophical point
> like that, he'd have to renounce his very nature. When you know better
> than everyone else, you don't have to worry about the categorical
> imperative.

I point you to Jesus Christ and the teachings of the Bible.
They are your schoolmaster, just as they are mine.

You can find plenty of fault with me. It's why I need Jesus
to forgive me. But you will never find fault with Him.

It's why I point you to Him. You need Him, just as I need Him.

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On Sunday, October 22, 2017 at 4:45:42 PM UTC-4, gwowen wrote:
> A set of laws that puts murder on a par with homosexuality has no place
> in the 21st century.

God has set a day of judgment for man. He has told us what sin
He will judge. Any and all sin will be judged equally. Sin is
disobedience and rebellion against God. It is setting your own
beliefs ahead of God's, as though you know better than God how to
run a universe of eternal beings.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Corinthians+6%3A9-10&version=KJV

9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit
the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators,
nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers
of themselves with mankind (homosexual),
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers,
nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

And:

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+22%3A15&version=KJV

15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers,
and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and
maketh a lie.

Christians warn you of God's judgment, so you can come to Jesus,
ask forgiveness, repent, and be saved from that judgment.

[Mr Flibble]

But in saying that Hodgin is an order of magnitude worse than Brian;
Hodgin is a supercunt.

/Flibble

[Chris M. Thomasson]

On 10/22/2017 2:00 PM, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> On Sunday, October 22, 2017 at 4:43:53 PM UTC-4, gwowen wrote:
>> For Rick to even consider for one second a subtle philosophical point
>> like that, he'd have to renounce his very nature. When you know better
>> than everyone else, you don't have to worry about the categorical
>> imperative.
>
> I point you to Jesus Christ and the teachings of the Bible.
> They are your schoolmaster, just as they are mine.
>
> You can find plenty of fault with me.

Indeed. Perhaps it is that time of the month. Ahhh, sorry about that.
Well, you did imply that all women are somehow cursed by God's wrath.

> It's why I need Jesus
> to forgive me. But you will never find fault with Him.
>
> It's why I point you to Him. You need Him, just as I need Him.

Okay, whatever you say man. Well, I did just respond to you. I need
help: Jesus save me from feeling like responding to Rick!

[Chris M. Thomasson]

On 10/22/2017 2:08 PM, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> On Sunday, October 22, 2017 at 4:45:42 PM UTC-4, gwowen wrote:
>> A set of laws that puts murder on a par with homosexuality has no place
>> in the 21st century.
>
> God has set a day of judgment for man.

Okay. According to your holy logic, he, in a highly enraged state,
already violently cursed every female with a monthly visitor, so they
have to get some sort of a pass right?

[David Brown]

On 22/10/17 19:36, woodb...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, October 22, 2017 at 10:23:29 AM UTC-5, David Brown wrote:
>>
>> Your continuous thoughtless, desparate and out-of-context evangelism
>> drives people away from you, your website, your software, and your pet
>> ideas about SaaS. If any regular from this newsgroup sees a company or
>> site offering online code generation, or software-as-a-service, their
>> first reaction is going be "that's the stuff Woodbrian was peddling on
>> c.l.c++ - I'll stay away from that".
>>
>> I am not a great fan of Mr. Flibble's choice of vocabulary, but he has
>> an excellent point.
>
> I think we disagree on this:
> https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/the-seven-noachide-laws
>

Since you can't see past your obsession about swearing, I'll spell it
out for you - I said Mr. Flibble had an excellent point in "Give it a
rest, Brian". Is that clear enough?

I also said I think Mr. Flibble's choice of words is sometimes a little
too colourful to be appropriate in a technical newsgroup (though it
fitted in well in this case). But we all know he uses "sausage words"
primarily to please /you/, so that you can feel self-righteous by
posting a complaint.


Of course we disagree on a list of "laws" from Noah - I don't think a
myth about one mythical being giving a list to another mythical being is
any basis for law. But just for fun, lets take a quick look. I am
using the list from Wikipedia rather than some random religious site.

1. Not to worship idols.

And this is coming from a bunch of Jews (and later Christians) ?

2. Not to curse God.

I thought mankind was supposed to be free? That includes the right to
disagree with the leadership - it's one of the pillars of modern Western
society.

3. To establish courts of justice.

Justice via impartial courts is a great thing, and it was smart of the
early Jews to copy it from the Sumerians. It's a pity they spoiled it
with such absurdly over-the-top punishments for things that cannot
sanely be seen as a crime in the first place. And it's a pity that the
guy that is supposedly behind all this - "god" - has a appointed himself
as judge, jury and executioner based on a vast array of arbitrary rules
without clarification.

4. Not to commit murder.

That's also a good idea. Christians and Jews haven't been any better at
following it than anyone else.

5. Not to commit adultery or sexual immorality.

Given the OT's bizarre lists of sexual acts that are banned, and sexual
acts that are perfectly acceptable, I can't see it being a sensible
guide to anything. I think #8 on the list below is a much healthier and
more natural attitude.

6. Not to steal.

See number 4.

7. Not to eat flesh torn from a living animal.

It's more humane to kill the animal first, I agree. And then use a
knife and fork - table manners cost nothing, and make meal times much
more pleasant.


I see no rule on this list that Mr. Flibble broke. It says nothing
about not swearing at Usenet evangelists.


If you want a set of rules to guide you through a happy, friendly and
productive life, you are better off with these:

<http://flyingspaghettimonster.wikia.com/wiki/The_Eight_I%27d_Really_Rather_You_Didn%27ts>

[David Brown]

On 23/10/17 00:43, Mr Flibble wrote:
> On 22/10/2017 21:51, Mr Flibble wrote:
>> On 22/10/2017 21:45, Gareth Owen wrote:
>>> Vir Campestris <vir.cam...@invalid.invalid> writes:
>>>
>>>> Oh, I don't know - I agree with about half of them...
>>>
>>> A set of laws that puts murder on a par with homosexuality has no place
>>> in the 21st century.
>>
>> Sadly Brian has shown on multiple occasions (including this one) that
>> he is a bigoted, misogynist homophobic cunt (behaviour typical of most
>> proselytising Christians).

I've met evangelistic Christians who are a lot less bigoted and are
pleasant and friendly people - mostly because they know when it makes
sense to evangelise, and when not to. I've also met some
extraordinarily bigoted "Sunday Christians" - and even some raving
homophobic atheists. There is a statistical correlation between
proselytising Christians and bigots, but it is certainly not exclusive.

>
> But in saying that Hodgin is an order of magnitude worse than Brian;
> Hodgin is a supercunt.
>

Rick's proselytising is certainly far worse than Brian's - but I think
we have heard a lot more bigotry, misogyny and homophobia from Brian.
And we get a lot more technical and on-topic posts from Rick -
especially once we discount Brian's adverts for his own site and software.

[David Brown]

On 20/10/17 05:29, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:

>
> So far so good wrt age: 40. Started off with basic at a young age, < 10,
> less than 6 on an Atari! Basic and PILOT cartridges, and a tape device
> to save my programs. Created many experiments. ;^)

I am a few years older than you (45) - I didn't have a chance to start
programming (in Basic) until I was about 8 or 9. But at 6 I had used a
computer (a Commodore Pet) and had decided to be a programmer or a
computer hardware designer when I grew up.

[Florian Weimer]

* woodbrian:

> I also think this is a bubble which is likely to burst soon,
> but think those hardest hit will be those who have not embraced
> SaaS.

I find that hard to believe. SaaS goes away quickly (and often in an
automated fashion) once you cannot pay the bills due to cashflow
issues. If you run your own stuff, there's much more inertia, which
can be a saving grace under such circumstances.

[woodb...@gmail.com]

On Monday, October 23, 2017 at 4:16:45 PM UTC-5, Florian Weimer wrote:
> * woodbrian:
>
> > I also think this is a bubble which is likely to burst soon,
> > but think those hardest hit will be those who have not embraced
> > SaaS.
>
> I find that hard to believe. SaaS goes away quickly (and often in an
> automated fashion) once you cannot pay the bills due to cashflow
> issues.

Some SaaS, including the C++ Middleware Writer, is free.

> If you run your own stuff, there's much more inertia, which
> can be a saving grace under such circumstances.

I make an operating system my own by selecting it and
configuring it. There may be some similarity with SaaS.


Brian
Ebenezer Enterprises
http://webEbenezer.net

[Jerry Stuckle]

And what happens when the company who's cloud-based application and/or
storage you are using goes under, gets bought out by someone not
interested in supporting the service or whatever?

Probably not going to happen to Microsoft, but not everyone is huge.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
jstu...@attglobal.net
==================

[Reinhardt Behm]

AT Tuesday 24 October 2017 10:07, Jerry Stuckle wrote:

> On 10/23/2017 5:16 PM, Florian Weimer wrote:
>> * woodbrian:
>>
>>> I also think this is a bubble which is likely to burst soon,
>>> but think those hardest hit will be those who have not embraced
>>> SaaS.
>>
>> I find that hard to believe. SaaS goes away quickly (and often in an
>> automated fashion) once you cannot pay the bills due to cashflow
>> issues. If you run your own stuff, there's much more inertia, which
>> can be a saving grace under such circumstances.
>>
>
> And what happens when the company who's cloud-based application and/or
> storage you are using goes under, gets bought out by someone not
> interested in supporting the service or whatever?
>
> Probably not going to happen to Microsoft, but not everyone is huge.

Even that might not help you. Big companies sometimes decide in one day to
kill a business sector.

--
Reinhardt

[Scott Lurndal]

woodb...@gmail.com writes:
>On Saturday, October 21, 2017 at 10:24:22 AM UTC-5, Mr Flibble wrote:
>
>Please don't swear here.
>

Shut the fuck up, brian.

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On Tuesday, October 24, 2017 at 8:34:58 AM UTC-4, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> woodb...@gmail.com writes:
> >On Saturday, October 21, 2017 at 10:24:22 AM UTC-5, Mr Flibble wrote:
> >Please don't swear here.
>

> Shut the .. up, brian.

Scott, do you want to live in a world where people treat other people
with the level of disrespect you show people at times?

I don't know what's happened to you in your life, but there are far
better, far more congenial, far more loving and helpful ways to be
to your fellow man.

[Scott Lurndal]

"Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c...@gmail.com> writes:
>On Tuesday, October 24, 2017 at 8:34:58 AM UTC-4, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> woodb...@gmail.com writes:
>> >On Saturday, October 21, 2017 at 10:24:22 AM UTC-5, Mr Flibble wrote:
>> >Please don't swear here.
>>
>> Shut the .. up, brian.
>
>Scott, do you want to live in a world where people treat other people
>with the level of disrespect you show people at times?

Neither of you have earned respect.

Or rather, you've earned disrepect by your behavior.

[Rick C. Hodgin]

It's at those times, when confronted with those scenarios in life,
that you reveal your character, Scott.

[woodb...@gmail.com]

On Tuesday, October 24, 2017 at 12:18:10 PM UTC-5, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:

Rick,

I don't think what you are doing in this thread is helpful.

Brian

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On Tuesday, October 24, 2017 at 2:30:44 PM UTC-4, woodb...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, October 24, 2017 at 12:18:10 PM UTC-5, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> Rick, I don't think what you are doing in this thread is helpful.

What am I doing in this thread, Brian?

[Daniel]

On Tuesday, October 24, 2017 at 1:18:10 PM UTC-4, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>
> It's at those times, when confronted with those scenarios in life,
> that you reveal your character, Scott.
>

"Judge not, lest ye be judged"

[Rick C. Hodgin]

How is what I said judgment, Daniel? How is what anything I've
written in this thread judgment?

[Ian Collins]

How is anything you have written topical?

--
Ian

[Öö Tiib]

It is even more general. Every person has likely better things to do
with their lives than to display disrespect towards you or Brian or
to explain source of such disrespect. "Better" was meant in sense of
"more beneficial" for pursuing whatever goals they might have.

[Rick C. Hodgin]

This is where I come from, Ian: It is my hope that you get the answer
to that question before you are standing before God being judged for
your sin, and having it pop back into your mind and knowing only then,
in that moment, exactly how it was topical to you.

-----
People think they're going to skate through this world doing whatever,
and they're fine. But they are wrong. Each of us carries sin, and
each of us has an appointment with God to be judged.

It is only those who DO NOT HAVE sin who will not be judged, and it
is only those who have asked Jesus to forgive their sin who no longer
have sin.

That doesn't mean they don't sin from time to time, but that Jesus
pays the price of that sin by His love, His gift, His willingness to
save us from our sin, and the judgment and condemnation that goes
along with it.

[Jerry Stuckle]

Very true.

[David Brown]

People want this newsgroup to be primarily about C++. Some don't mind a
little off-topic banter on occasion - some don't want /any/ off-topic
threads.

But nobody wants endless repeats about how Rick "loves" us so much that
he will do anything to drive people up the wall. It is crazy stuff -
the kind that either gets you locked up in a padded cell, or locked up
behind bars for running a dangerous sect. We don't want repeats of how
everybody in the world is evil unless they take part in a ego boost
project to re-write all software and redesign all hardware.

Nobody wants endless repeats about how Brian's online code generator or
SaaS is the best idea since sliced bread, and that anyone writing code
in any other way is outdated. Nobody wants to hear how Brian is the
Noah of the modern age, come to save us all from Java. Nobody wants
endless repeats about how the evils of the world all come from people
who love each other, but just happen not to match some tribal rules from
a few thousand years ago.

If Brian and Rick were willing to rub two brain cells together and give
coherent arguments and rational thought on their off-topic subjects, it
might be a little interesting for an occasional break from programming
life. (Parroting old books, regurgitating something you heard from
youtube, and circular reasoning do not count.) But they fail to do that.


So what should people do about posters like these two? You can ignore
them entirely - that is what most people do. You can tell them to sod
off - some people do that, in the hope that they will eventually get the
message. You can patiently explain the problem, give them advice,
recommend ways they can get on better with other people. Nothing has
helped so far, so what would you suggest? Certainly taking them
seriously is out of the question - even most serious, dedicated
Christians see these two as crackpots who do more harm than good with
their "evangelism". If they are, in fact, right and we are in a war
between the Devil and God then those two are the Devil's front-line
recruiters.


You talk about respect and disrespect. Respect is a sort of variable
quantity in a relationship between two people. It starts of fairly
neutral - some people have higher basic respect for strangers, others
have lower. Through interaction, it goes up or down. Brian and
(especially) Rick have shown an extraordinary level of disrespect
towards these technical newsgroups and the people in it - they have
worked hard to earn /disrespect/. People will treat them accordingly.
(And I would say that telling people where they stand is a sign of
respect for them as a person, while disrespecting their posts.)

Of course, respect is not just a scaler quantity. It is fine to have
respect for Brian's C++ skills, or the programming work and thoughts of
Rick, while having nothing but contempt for their evangelism and their
bigotry. It is not always easy to keep these separate, but it is
possible. I am happy to take part in technical threads with either of them.

[Öö Tiib]

Their views are served too repetitively and in boring, unattractive and
dogmatic manner. That may be does disservice to the views they
praise but it also makes the whole group to look uninteresting and
reduces potential readers of it.

Pragmatically it is worth to consider what can be or can't be done.
Sources of repetitive and uninteresting noise in non-moderated forum
can't be shut. Talking with them does not work. So what remains is
to ignore and/or to filter them on one hand and to post more on-topic
stuff on the other hand. That is just IMHO, YMMV.

> You talk about respect and disrespect. Respect is a sort of variable
> quantity in a relationship between two people. It starts of fairly
> neutral - some people have higher basic respect for strangers, others
> have lower. Through interaction, it goes up or down. Brian and
> (especially) Rick have shown an extraordinary level of disrespect
> towards these technical newsgroups and the people in it - they have
> worked hard to earn /disrespect/. People will treat them accordingly.
> (And I would say that telling people where they stand is a sign of
> respect for them as a person, while disrespecting their posts.)

I did talk about disrespect just to agree with Rick that displaying
it towards him or Brian is waste of time.

> Of course, respect is not just a scaler quantity. It is fine to have
> respect for Brian's C++ skills, or the programming work and thoughts of
> Rick, while having nothing but contempt for their evangelism and their
> bigotry. It is not always easy to keep these separate, but it is
> possible. I am happy to take part in technical threads with either of them.

It is elementary human right to be zealous about something or to be
prejudiced against somebody. Just that it is boring to read them.

[James R. Kuyper]

On 2017-10-25 03:49, David Brown wrote:
...
> But nobody wants endless repeats about how Rick "loves" us so much ...
I'm fairly certain that Rick does. Doesn't he count as somebody?

> Nobody wants endless repeats about how Brian's online code generator ...
I'm fairly certain that Brian does. Doesn't he count as somebody?

[woodb...@gmail.com]

And the person who has been laid off and becomes an
entrepreneur by necessity -- http://webEbenezer.net/about.html

[David Brown]

Thinking about this, it seems the ideal solution for Rick and Brian is
to set up blogs for this stuff. Then they can write whatever they want.
They can reach a much wider potential audience than these technical
newsgroups - maybe they will find people who want to read about it.

[Jorgen Grahn]

On Wed, 2017-10-25, Tiib wrote:
...

> Sources of repetitive and uninteresting noise in non-moderated forum
> can't be shut. Talking with them does not work. So what remains is
> to ignore and/or to filter them on one hand and to post more on-topic
> stuff on the other hand. That is just IMHO, YMMV.

Not just "IMHO" -- it's the only way USENET has ever worked (and you
summarize it well).

(Personally I wish I had something interesting and topical to write
about to increase the S/N level ... but I'm fairly comfortable in my
subset of C++ right now so I don't have any questions, and there are
few threads where my comments would be useful.)

/Jorgen

--
// Jorgen Grahn <grahn@ Oo o. . .
\X/ snipabacken.se> O o .

[James R. Kuyper]

That would be the ideal solution for us, but not for them (at least in
Rick's case; I'm not familiar with Brian). Rick's talking here, rather
than in places where his talks would actually be appropriate, because he
wants to reach people who would never bother monitoring his blog, if he
had one. He wants his message to reach people who have absolutely no
interest in hearing it. It's the very fact that they have no such
interest, that makes him want to reach them. He'd probably even agree
with me about that description - as far as he's concerned his message is
too important to restrict it's distribution only to people who have any
interest in receiving it.
That's what makes him so annoying - and he just doesn't understand that
being so annoying does more harm to his cause than his attempts to
spread "The Word" could ever make up for. Since I don't believe in his
cause, the fact that he's harming it doesn't bother me - but his
co-religionists should be (and have been) trying to rein him in. At
least, some of his fellow Christians have been doing so - as far as I
can tell, there's (thankfully) no one here that believes in exactly the
same brand of Christianity as he does.

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On Thursday, October 26, 2017 at 12:19:04 PM UTC-4, James R. Kuyper wrote:
> At
> least, some of his fellow Christians have been doing so - as far as I
> can tell, there's (thankfully) no one here that believes in exactly the
> same brand of Christianity as he does.

My "brand" of Christianity is this:

(1) We all have sin.
(2) We all need a savior to save us from God's judgment for sin.
(3) Jesus came to the Earth as a man to be that savior.
(4) We all need Jesus to forgive our sin so we can be saved from
judgment.

I point people to Christ so they will ask forgiveness for their sin
and escape judgment and be saved.

I tell this message to people who are still unforgiven for their sin
because it is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick.

I tell you, and the other people in my life, because I care about you.
You are "my people" in this area of interest in my life, and I care
about you because you are part of my circle.

There's no hidden agenda. It is on face value:

(1) You have sin and need a savior.
(2) Jesus wants to be your savior, just ask Him to forgive
your sin.

[asetof...@gmail.com]

Thank you
Good written and clear

But to say "Forgive me" could be not enough
Here one has to confess his sins to a priest (prete) and be penitent contrite and promise to not want repeat these sins.

[Rick C. Hodgin]

Genuine belief and asking forgiveness is the only requirement for
salvation. Once one is saved, God pours out the gift of repentance,
and such movements toward holiness will naturally follow from within.

But, even the thief on the cross was forgiven and entered in to His
Kingdom paradise that very day, and he had no opportunity to do good
works, to teach others, but simply realized he was wrong, asked for
forgiveness, and had he lived he would've continued in repentance
because the work of the Holy Spirit is from within your core, and it
gives you a new source of input that asserts itself in powerful ways
in your life.

[Chris M. Thomasson]

Perhaps, trying to rewire bits and pieces of it?

[Chris M. Thomasson]

I will never forget when I was in a religious school and they wanted me
to confess my sins to a priest: Catholic. I gave a simple request to the
possibly radically corrupt interrogator...

I said to the priest: "Confess _ALL_ of your sins to me first! Then I
just might think about conversing with the likes of you. You are way
older than me, therefore you must have MUCH more sin to confess buddy! :^D"

Well, the priest did not like that, and I got in trouble. Humm, I
thought these conversations were private! lol. What a strange scam to
pull on a child. Just weird!!! ;^o

[asetof...@gmail.com]

In the Vangelis, it is written that for to forgive all sins; one has to request it to a Church priest (prete)
Giovanni 20,20

«Pace a voi!». 20 Detto questo, mostrò loro le mani e il costato. E i discepoli gioirono al vedere il Signore. 21 Gesù disse loro di nuovo: «Pace a voi! Come il Padre ha mandato me, anch'io mando voi». 22 Dopo aver detto questo, alitò su di loro e disse: «Ricevete lo Spirito Santo; 23 a chi rimetterete i peccati saranno rimessi e a chi non li rimetterete, resteranno non rimessi».

[asetof...@gmail.com]

I forgot that would be a reparation of the sin too that would be assigned from the confessor

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On Thursday, October 26, 2017 at 5:12:46 PM UTC-4, asetof...@gmail.com wrote:
> In the Vangelis, it is written that for to forgive all sins; one has
> to request it to a Church priest (prete)
> Giovanni 20,20

It is wrong. The Catholic system has it wrong. There is God the
Father, God the Son (Jesus Christ), and God the Holy Spirit. May
has no divinity, and there is no line going from one of us to any
man, and then to God. It goes from each of us personally, directly
to God.

When Jesus died, the veil in the Temple was rent in two:

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Timothy+2%3A5-7&version=KJV

5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men,
the man Christ Jesus;
6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

The veil existed to separate man from God. Only the High Priest
could go in behind the veil, and only once a year, and only with
blood and water and incense and much ceremony. He even had to wear
a special outfit with bells and pomegranates on it which made noise,
and be tied around the waist with a stout rope, and if that priest
went before God in that special room behind the veil unworthily,
God would strike him dead. The bells would stop making noise, and
the other priests used the rope to drag him out because if any of
the priests entered in to that special room (called the Holy of
Holies) they too would be struck down in an instant.

That was the Law, but Jesus nailed the Law to the cross by His body
and death given to man, given to God as a one-time offering for sin.
Jesus tore the veil in two by His death, so that now we no longer go
through that ceremony, no longer go through the priests or even the
high priest, but now we go directly to the Father, and not through
any other man, but only through Jesus Christ:

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+27%3A51&version=KJV
51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the
top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

We have a direct advocate:

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+John+2%3A1&version=KJV
1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin
not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father,
Jesus Christ the righteous:

And we can go directly to the Father ourselves through Christ:

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+16%3A23&version=KJV
23 And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say
unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will
give it you.

-----
The truth speaks fundamentally. Pursue it and it will prove itself
out to you.

[Chris M. Thomasson]

On 10/26/2017 3:18 PM, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> On Thursday, October 26, 2017 at 5:12:46 PM UTC-4, asetof...@gmail.com wrote:
>> In the Vangelis, it is written that for to forgive all sins; one has
>> to request it to a Church priest (prete)
>> Giovanni 20,20
>
> It is wrong. The Catholic system has it wrong.

[...]

Have to agree here. If I want to converse with God, I do not need a gosh
darn priest to aid my efforts wrt accomplishing the feat. Imvho,
thinking to yourself is more than sufficient.

[Chris M. Thomasson]

On 10/23/2017 1:12 AM, David Brown wrote:
> On 20/10/17 05:29, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
>
>>
>> So far so good wrt age: 40. Started off with basic at a young age, < 10,
>> less than 6 on an Atari! Basic and PILOT cartridges, and a tape device
>> to save my programs. Created many experiments. ;^)
>
> I am a few years older than you (45) - I didn't have a chance to start
> programming (in Basic) until I was about 8 or 9. But at 6 I had used a
> computer (a Commodore Pet) and had decided to be a programmer or a
> computer hardware designer when I grew up.

What made you ultimately decide to be a programmer David? For me it was
a question: "How the hell are these damn games created!?!". After a
couple of months, I started unknowingly learning some assembly, without
actually understanding it wrt playing around with PEEK and POKE in
BASIC. Very dangerous! ;^)

[seeplus]

On Friday, October 27, 2017 at 7:41:56 AM UTC+11, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:

> I said to the priest: "Confess _ALL_ of your sins to me first! Then I
> just might think about conversing with the likes of you. You are way
> older than me, therefore you must have MUCH more sin to confess buddy! :^D"

Ha ... what a great comeback from a little kid.
At least you didn't get touched up?
Must have had a high degree of precociousness....
Hence getting into programming :)

[Chris M. Thomasson]

On 10/26/2017 5:54 PM, seeplus wrote:
> On Friday, October 27, 2017 at 7:41:56 AM UTC+11, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
>
>> I said to the priest: "Confess _ALL_ of your sins to me first! Then I
>> just might think about conversing with the likes of you. You are way
>> older than me, therefore you must have MUCH more sin to confess buddy! :^D"
>
> Ha ... what a great comeback from a little kid.

:^D Got a bit yelled at for it though... Oh well.

> At least you didn't get touched up?

No! Thank God. Thank the FSM:

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/86/e2/c5/86e2c537defc02529c34c34dabba02d0.jpg

and all the Unicorns as well:

https://www.thezorklibrary.com/history/unicorn.html

;^)

God willing for strength, I would violently attempt to gravely wound any
entity that tried to pull that shi% on me, or anyone else if I was in
close proximity and knew I could do something about it right then and
there, spur of the moment fight or flight type of feeling.

> Must have had a high degree of precociousness....

Sometimes, I would get in trouble for sarcasm. Luckily, my parents were
always pretty damn nice.

> Hence getting into programming :)

Oh yeah!

[asetof...@gmail.com]

Rick wrote:
#I write

Thursday, October 26, 2017 at 5:12:46 PM UTC-4, asetof...@gmail.com wrote:
> In the Vangelis, it is written that for to forgive all sins; one has
> to request it to a Church priest (prete)
> Giovanni 20,20

It is wrong. The Catholic system has it wrong. There is God the
Father, God the Son (Jesus Christ), and God the Holy Spirit. May
has no divinity, and there is no line going from one of us to any
man, and then to God. It goes from each of us personally, directly
to God.

#than what it means above Giovanni from 20, 20 especially
#"A coloro che li rimetterete saranno rimessi
#a coloro che non li rimetterete
#*resteranno non rimessi*"

#Jesus want to create one organizations one Church (the only one right)

When Jesus died, the veil in the Temple was rent in two:

#that broken veil
# should mean that God went out from the temple of Israel
#because He went to the Romanic Church Catholic
#and each one that want adore one God
#it is only by means of Catholic Romanic Church

#so all ones have to abandon his own religion and go to Romanic Catholic Church

[asetof...@gmail.com]

Il guaio é che stanno distruggendo
l'unica Chiesa vera quella cattolica romana, per sostituirla con quella falsa protestante, come false sono tutte le altre chiese e religioni.


Tutti gli altri dei delle vane religioni sono falsi o demoni.

Anche gli ebrei si devono convertire alla Chiesa Cattolica, e riconoscere la divinità di Gesù, se vorranno essere salvati.

[David Brown]

I was, as I said, about 6 at the time. But I remember a hangman game,
and a tank battle game, and seeing my father doing some programming (he
had the machine home for his work, which required occasional bits of
programming). And I thought I wanted to program computers -
alternatively, I wanted to /design/ computers. (I design
microcontroller-based electronics boards as well as programming them, so
I guess I'm pretty close to that.)

I didn't start on assembly until I was about 11 or 12.

[Rick C. Hodgin]

On Friday, October 27, 2017 at 1:21:53 AM UTC-4, asetof...@gmail.com wrote:
> Rick wrote:
> #I write
> Thursday, October 26, 2017 at 5:12:46 PM UTC-4, asetof...@gmail.com wrote:
> > In the Vangelis, it is written that for to forgive all sins; one has
> > to request it to a Church priest (prete)
> > Giovanni 20,20
>
> It is wrong. The Catholic system has it wrong. There is God the
> Father, God the Son (Jesus Christ), and God the Holy Spirit. May
> has no divinity, and there is no line going from one of us to any
> man, and then to God. It goes from each of us personally, directly
> to God.
>
> #than what it means above Giovanni from 20, 20 especially
> #"A coloro che li rimetterete saranno rimessi
> #a coloro che non li rimetterete
> #*resteranno non rimessi*"
>
> #Jesus want to create one organizations one Church (the only one right)

It means the Giovanni 20,20 is extra-Biblical, a teaching of man,
and not an inspired writing of God as by His Holy Spirit.

> When Jesus died, the veil in the Temple was rent in two:
>
> #that broken veil
> # should mean that God went out from the temple of Israel
> #because He went to the Romanic Church Catholic
> #and each one that want adore one God
> #it is only by means of Catholic Romanic Church

That is a teaching by man, and it is incorrect. The Catholic Church
teaches that God gave power to a man in this passage:

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+16%3A13-20&version=KJV

18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this
rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not
prevail against it.

Peter's name literally means "Rock." His former name, Simon, means
"shaky." So the Catholic Church doctrine teaches that when Jesus
gave him a new name, changing his name from shaky to rock, from
Simon to Peter, and then said, "Upon this rock I will build my
church," that somehow that translated special power to Peter.

But we continue reading the Bible, the teachings of Christ, and we
see Peter's ministry to the Jews in Acts, and Paul's ministry to the
Gentiles (non-Jews) in Acts, and then in the rest of the Bible as
well, it becomes clear that there was no explicit ministry given to
any one man, or any one sect of followers.

We are all to come to Jesus Christ directly, ask Him for forgiveness,
and then He becomes the head of our lives and guides us from within
to be a part of our local communities.

You'll remember from Revelation that Jesus instructed John to write
letters to the seven churches, each one from an immediate region:

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+1%3A11&version=KJV
11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What
thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches
which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto
Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto
Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

-----
God has given us a pattern in our bodies. We have the head which has
the brain and instructs all the other parts of the body to move. It
is Christ who is the head of the church. Each of the parts of a body
are moving based on guidance from the brain. The pinky doesn't know
why it is moving when you wiggle it. It just knows to wiggle when it
is commanded to do so. It is the same with each of us.

As God's Holy Spirit moves in our lives, He naturally moves also in
our churches. It is a collective movement of the body of Christ, and
not of individual men within, though He does call specific men into
specific service, but they too are merely part of His body of Christ,
and are merely performing the roles for which they were called and
prepared.

-----
Roman Catholicism is incorrect in its teachings. It is Christ, and
Him alone, who saves us. It is us coming to God personally, by that
call He gives us from within (John 6:44), that saves us, and not any
confession to man, be he priest or believing friend, minister or
evangelist, neighbor or spouse. We come to Christ, and Him alone,
for salvation. And we come to the Father, and Him through Christ,
from that day forward, directly, in all of our seekings from God.

Remember how Jesus taught us to preach?

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+6%3A9-13&version=KJV

9 After this manner therefore pray ye:

Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
10 Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
11 Give us this day our daily bread.
12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For
thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever.
Amen.

In our daily prayers (give us this day...), we go directly to God the
Father (which art in Heaven), and not anyone on Earth. And Jesus even
goes so far as to teach us directly not to call anyone on Earth our
father, for we have one Father in Heaven:

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+23%3A9&version=KJV

9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your
Father, which is in heaven.

It is clear. But if you only read Catholic writings and doctrine, it
will say other things. But if you examine the full writings of God,
and not just what you find in the Catholic Bible, you will see that
the intent of God is clear: us to Him directly. No middle men any
longer. It's the whole purpose of why Christ went to the cross, to
reconcile us directly to Himself.

[asetof...@gmail.com]

Rick wrote:
It means the Giovanni 20,20 is extra-Biblical, a teaching of man,
and not an inspired writing of God as by His Holy Spirit.

__________

No, all the Bible is

"inspired writing of God as by His Holy Spirit"

The first autor of Bible is God

For the remain i advise you to not follow the heretic Luter and protestant theory, because he wrote and said many errors and not right think

The Romanic Catholic Church is the main way for obtain grace and help from God.

"Non c'è salvezza fuori dalla Chiesa"

[Rick C. Hodgin]

There are studies online which will compare the content of the
Catholic Bible with that of the King James.

[asetof...@gmail.com]

Can came out the bible of the King John or Artur or some the one of 1700
1500 ecc

I had seen a very old photo of the translater people for a protestant bible they were all with the hidden hand in that photo...

Who say the autors of online bible are not they?

I believe only the paper one, I have (even could be falsed to something due to Concilio Vaticano II)

[Rick C. Hodgin]

Read them. Compare them. Seek for yourself.

If you are interested in pursuing the truth, God Himself will reach
into your understanding and open it up. If you seek the truth, you
will know the truth because God will guide you from within.

It's not a matter of reason. It's not a matter of man's ability to
align things up in a row and say, "A-ha! There it is. I see it now.
1.. 2.. 3.. and x.. y.. z.. Yup. It makes sense." That is flesh,
and God is spirit, and knowledge of God is spirit. God must enable
you from within to be able to receive the truth, which is also spirit.

Seek the truth, and you will find it, when you seek for it with all
your heart.