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Mr Flibble
Jan 8, 2018, 2:17:51 PM1/8/18
to
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXvKOwQ4mvY
--
"Suppose it’s all true, and you walk up to the pearly gates, and are
confronted by God," Bryne asked on his show The Meaning of Life. "What
will Stephen Fry say to him, her, or it?"
"I’d say, bone cancer in children? What’s that about?" Fry replied.
"How dare you? How dare you create a world to which there is such misery
that is not our fault. It’s not right, it’s utterly, utterly evil."
"Why should I respect a capricious, mean-minded, stupid God who creates
a world that is so full of injustice and pain. That’s what I would say."
--
"Suppose it’s all true, and you walk up to the pearly gates, and are
confronted by God," Bryne asked on his show The Meaning of Life. "What
will Stephen Fry say to him, her, or it?"
"I’d say, bone cancer in children? What’s that about?" Fry replied.
"How dare you? How dare you create a world to which there is such misery
that is not our fault. It’s not right, it’s utterly, utterly evil."
"Why should I respect a capricious, mean-minded, stupid God who creates
a world that is so full of injustice and pain. That’s what I would say."
Thiago Adams
Jan 8, 2018, 2:49:53 PM1/8/18
to
On Monday, January 8, 2018 at 5:17:51 PM UTC-2, Mr Flibble wrote:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXvKOwQ4mvY
>
My suggestion for GUI libraries is starting the project
creating a GUI editor that is implemented using the GUI
library itself.
What I have seen is that many variants of GUI libraries
are created just to satisfy the desire of it's creators
to have a different and modern C++ syntax.
The advertisement is
"look this beautiful C++ modern code, this is the
hello world"
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXvKOwQ4mvY
>
My suggestion for GUI libraries is starting the project
creating a GUI editor that is implemented using the GUI
library itself.
What I have seen is that many variants of GUI libraries
are created just to satisfy the desire of it's creators
to have a different and modern C++ syntax.
The advertisement is
"look this beautiful C++ modern code, this is the
hello world"
Richard
Jan 8, 2018, 3:47:55 PM1/8/18
to
[Please do not mail me a copy of your followup]
Thiago Adams <thiago...@gmail.com> spake the secret code
<52bdeafe-6ed1-4a1b...@googlegroups.com> thusly:
>What I have seen is that many variants of GUI libraries
>are created just to satisfy the desire of it's creators
>to have a different and modern C++ syntax.
Just having a "modern C++" syntax also isn't enough. It has to be
significantly better than wxWidgets and Qt, which are the two dominant
C++ GUI frameworks. (I am intentionally excluding platform-specific
frameworks like MFC.) wxWidgets and Qt have significant communities
and a history of continuous improvement as well as platform
portability. They have books written about how to use them.
matching all of that is non-trivial and exceeding it is going to be
particularly difficult given that Qt alone has probably a 10 person
team working on improving it and adding features to it.
At this point, I don't see any GUI library displacing either of these
except for toy projects.
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" free book <http://tinyurl.com/d3d-pipeline>
The Terminals Wiki <http://terminals-wiki.org>
The Computer Graphics Museum <http://computergraphicsmuseum.org>
Legalize Adulthood! (my blog) <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>
Thiago Adams <thiago...@gmail.com> spake the secret code
<52bdeafe-6ed1-4a1b...@googlegroups.com> thusly:
>What I have seen is that many variants of GUI libraries
>are created just to satisfy the desire of it's creators
>to have a different and modern C++ syntax.
significantly better than wxWidgets and Qt, which are the two dominant
C++ GUI frameworks. (I am intentionally excluding platform-specific
frameworks like MFC.) wxWidgets and Qt have significant communities
and a history of continuous improvement as well as platform
portability. They have books written about how to use them.
matching all of that is non-trivial and exceeding it is going to be
particularly difficult given that Qt alone has probably a 10 person
team working on improving it and adding features to it.
At this point, I don't see any GUI library displacing either of these
except for toy projects.
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" free book <http://tinyurl.com/d3d-pipeline>
The Terminals Wiki <http://terminals-wiki.org>
The Computer Graphics Museum <http://computergraphicsmuseum.org>
Legalize Adulthood! (my blog) <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>
Mr Flibble
Jan 8, 2018, 7:45:39 PM1/8/18
to
On 08/01/2018 20:47, Richard wrote:
> [Please do not mail me a copy of your followup]
>
> Thiago Adams <thiago...@gmail.com> spake the secret code
> <52bdeafe-6ed1-4a1b...@googlegroups.com> thusly:
>
>> What I have seen is that many variants of GUI libraries
>> are created just to satisfy the desire of it's creators
>> to have a different and modern C++ syntax.
>
> Just having a "modern C++" syntax also isn't enough. It has to be
> significantly better than wxWidgets and Qt, which are the two dominant
> C++ GUI frameworks. (I am intentionally excluding platform-specific
> frameworks like MFC.) wxWidgets and Qt have significant communities
> and a history of continuous improvement as well as platform
> portability. They have books written about how to use them.
wxWidgets is basically an antiquated egregious cross platform re-hash of
> [Please do not mail me a copy of your followup]
>
> Thiago Adams <thiago...@gmail.com> spake the secret code
> <52bdeafe-6ed1-4a1b...@googlegroups.com> thusly:
>
>> What I have seen is that many variants of GUI libraries
>> are created just to satisfy the desire of it's creators
>> to have a different and modern C++ syntax.
>
> Just having a "modern C++" syntax also isn't enough. It has to be
> significantly better than wxWidgets and Qt, which are the two dominant
> C++ GUI frameworks. (I am intentionally excluding platform-specific
> frameworks like MFC.) wxWidgets and Qt have significant communities
> and a history of continuous improvement as well as platform
> portability. They have books written about how to use them.
MFC and unworthy of further consideration for that reason.
>
> matching all of that is non-trivial and exceeding it is going to be
> particularly difficult given that Qt alone has probably a 10 person
> team working on improving it and adding features to it.
off as a 1-man project.
>
> At this point, I don't see any GUI library displacing either of these
> except for toy projects.
/Flibble
Mr Flibble
Jan 8, 2018, 7:55:42 PM1/8/18
to
On 08/01/2018 19:49, Thiago Adams wrote:
> On Monday, January 8, 2018 at 5:17:51 PM UTC-2, Mr Flibble wrote:
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXvKOwQ4mvY
>>
>
>
> My suggestion for GUI libraries is starting the project
> creating a GUI editor that is implemented using the GUI
> library itself.
IMO a good GUI library should be easy to use with a GUI editor AND be
> On Monday, January 8, 2018 at 5:17:51 PM UTC-2, Mr Flibble wrote:
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXvKOwQ4mvY
>>
>
>
> My suggestion for GUI libraries is starting the project
> creating a GUI editor that is implemented using the GUI
> library itself.
elegant to write code for. This is the primary goal for neoGFX.
/Flibble
Rick C. Hodgin
Jan 8, 2018, 7:56:53 PM1/8/18
to
On 1/8/2018 7:45 PM, Mr Flibble wrote:
>> At this point, I don't see any GUI library displacing either of these
>> [wxWidgets and Qt] except for toy projects.
>> At this point, I don't see any GUI library displacing either of these
>
> Would you bet your life savings on that?
You should create either a compatibility layer (if you don't already
> Would you bet your life savings on that?
have one) that enables existing wxWidgets code and Qt code to compile
without any changes (or to compile with only minimal changes), or you
could create a cross-compiler which takes wxWidgets and Qt code and
refactors it to work with neoGFX.
How much will a neoGFX license cost for a commercial app?
--
Thank you! | Indianapolis, Indiana | God is love -- 1 John 4:7-9
Rick C. Hodgin | http://www.libsf.org/ | http://tinyurl.com/yaogvqhj
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Software: LSA, LSC, Debi, RDC/CAlive, ES/1, ES/2, VJr, VFrP, Logician
Hardware: Aroxda Desktop CPU, Arxita Embedded CPU, Arlina Compute FPGA
Mr Flibble
Jan 8, 2018, 8:08:02 PM1/8/18
to
On 09/01/2018 00:56, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> On 1/8/2018 7:45 PM, Mr Flibble wrote:
>>> At this point, I don't see any GUI library displacing either of these
>>> [wxWidgets and Qt] except for toy projects.
>>
>> Would you bet your life savings on that?
>
> You should create either a compatibility layer (if you don't already
> have one) that enables existing wxWidgets code and Qt code to compile
> without any changes (or to compile with only minimal changes), or you
> could create a cross-compiler which takes wxWidgets and Qt code and
> refactors it to work with neoGFX.
Alternatively I should not do that. I should not do that.
> On 1/8/2018 7:45 PM, Mr Flibble wrote:
>>> At this point, I don't see any GUI library displacing either of these
>>> [wxWidgets and Qt] except for toy projects.
>>
>> Would you bet your life savings on that?
>
> You should create either a compatibility layer (if you don't already
> have one) that enables existing wxWidgets code and Qt code to compile
> without any changes (or to compile with only minimal changes), or you
> could create a cross-compiler which takes wxWidgets and Qt code and
> refactors it to work with neoGFX.
>
> How much will a neoGFX license cost for a commercial app?
license; it will always be price competitive.
Rick C. Hodgin
Jan 8, 2018, 8:16:23 PM1/8/18
to
On 1/8/2018 8:07 PM, Mr Flibble wrote:
> On 09/01/2018 00:56, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>> How much will a neoGFX license cost for a commercial app?
>
> Initially the commercial license will cost about 10% of a Qt commercial
> license; it will always be price competitive.
How does Qt licensing work? Their website says $295/month per
> On 09/01/2018 00:56, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>> How much will a neoGFX license cost for a commercial app?
>
> Initially the commercial license will cost about 10% of a Qt commercial
> license; it will always be price competitive.
developer. Is that paid for as long as the Qt application is
used? Just during the time of development? Is it for a subscription
to the Qt tools? Or ... something else?
Will a developer be able to buy a one-time license fee for neoGFX?
Or will it be per month on an ongoing basis?
Ian Collins
Jan 8, 2018, 8:19:14 PM1/8/18
to
On 01/09/2018 02:16 PM, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> On 1/8/2018 8:07 PM, Mr Flibble wrote:
>> On 09/01/2018 00:56, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>>> How much will a neoGFX license cost for a commercial app?
>>
>> Initially the commercial license will cost about 10% of a Qt commercial
>> license; it will always be price competitive.
>
> How does Qt licensing work?
Answering that question keeps a legion of lawyers employed...
> On 1/8/2018 8:07 PM, Mr Flibble wrote:
>> On 09/01/2018 00:56, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>>> How much will a neoGFX license cost for a commercial app?
>>
>> Initially the commercial license will cost about 10% of a Qt commercial
>> license; it will always be price competitive.
>
> How does Qt licensing work?
--
Ian.
Thiago Adams
Jan 8, 2018, 8:42:56 PM1/8/18
to
On Monday, January 8, 2018 at 5:17:51 PM UTC-2, Mr Flibble wrote:
Do you use native controls? Native menu?
Mr Flibble
Jan 8, 2018, 8:45:05 PM1/8/18
to
too. I do not use native controls.
/Flibble
Thiago Adams
Jan 8, 2018, 8:59:46 PM1/8/18
to
On Monday, January 8, 2018 at 11:45:05 PM UTC-2, Mr Flibble wrote:
> On 09/01/2018 01:42, Thiago Adams wrote:
> > On Monday, January 8, 2018 at 5:17:51 PM UTC-2, Mr Flibble wrote:
> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXvKOwQ4mvY
> >>
> >> --
> >> "Suppose it’s all true, and you walk up to the pearly gates, and are
> >> confronted by God," Bryne asked on his show The Meaning of Life. "What
> >> will Stephen Fry say to him, her, or it?"
> >> "I’d say, bone cancer in children? What’s that about?" Fry replied.
> >> "How dare you? How dare you create a world to which there is such misery
> >> that is not our fault. It’s not right, it’s utterly, utterly evil."
> >> "Why should I respect a capricious, mean-minded, stupid God who creates
> >> a world that is so full of injustice and pain. That’s what I would say."
> >
> > What is the graphics back-end on windows? gdi, gdi+, direc2d?
> > Do you use native controls? Native menu?
>
> At the moment OpenGL; in the future DirectX (via OpenGL ES) and Vulkan
> too. I do not use native controls.
Do you have some dispatch mechanism? Some message system?
> On 09/01/2018 01:42, Thiago Adams wrote:
> > On Monday, January 8, 2018 at 5:17:51 PM UTC-2, Mr Flibble wrote:
> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXvKOwQ4mvY
> >>
> >> --
> >> "Suppose it’s all true, and you walk up to the pearly gates, and are
> >> confronted by God," Bryne asked on his show The Meaning of Life. "What
> >> will Stephen Fry say to him, her, or it?"
> >> "I’d say, bone cancer in children? What’s that about?" Fry replied.
> >> "How dare you? How dare you create a world to which there is such misery
> >> that is not our fault. It’s not right, it’s utterly, utterly evil."
> >> "Why should I respect a capricious, mean-minded, stupid God who creates
> >> a world that is so full of injustice and pain. That’s what I would say."
> >
> > What is the graphics back-end on windows? gdi, gdi+, direc2d?
> > Do you use native controls? Native menu?
>
> At the moment OpenGL; in the future DirectX (via OpenGL ES) and Vulkan
> too. I do not use native controls.
Do you know https://electronjs.org/?
What to you think of electron as an alternative of your UI?
Scott Lurndal
Jan 9, 2018, 10:24:31 AM1/9/18
to
Mr Flibble <flibbleREM...@i42.co.uk> writes:
>On 08/01/2018 19:49, Thiago Adams wrote:
>> On Monday, January 8, 2018 at 5:17:51 PM UTC-2, Mr Flibble wrote:
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXvKOwQ4mvY
>>>
>>
>>
>> My suggestion for GUI libraries is starting the project
>> creating a GUI editor that is implemented using the GUI
>> library itself.
>
>IMO a good GUI library should be easy to use with a GUI editor AND be
>elegant to write code for. This is the primary goal for neoGFX.
>
Although it is a truism that elegance is in the eye of the beholder.
>On 08/01/2018 19:49, Thiago Adams wrote:
>> On Monday, January 8, 2018 at 5:17:51 PM UTC-2, Mr Flibble wrote:
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXvKOwQ4mvY
>>>
>>
>>
>> My suggestion for GUI libraries is starting the project
>> creating a GUI editor that is implemented using the GUI
>> library itself.
>
>IMO a good GUI library should be easy to use with a GUI editor AND be
>elegant to write code for. This is the primary goal for neoGFX.
>
Thiago Adams
Jan 9, 2018, 10:53:13 AM1/9/18
to
On Tuesday, January 9, 2018 at 1:24:31 PM UTC-2, Scott Lurndal wrote:
The beauty of the code is according which the hierarchy of
values we build in your minds.
This hierarchy can be different for each person.
In addition, some successful libraries or computer languages do not have to be the most perfect to succeed.
They must work, solve the problem, be available and be
well known and widespread. I do not use QT, but I think it was successful. The same for MFC.
values we build in your minds.
This hierarchy can be different for each person.
In addition, some successful libraries or computer languages do not have to be the most perfect to succeed.
They must work, solve the problem, be available and be
well known and widespread. I do not use QT, but I think it was successful. The same for MFC.
Richard
Jan 9, 2018, 1:16:48 PM1/9/18
to
[Please do not mail me a copy of your followup]
Mr Flibble <flibbleREM...@i42.co.uk> spake the secret code
<rJadndWc2fQPg8nH...@giganews.com> thusly:
>At the moment OpenGL; in the future DirectX (via OpenGL ES) and Vulkan
>too. I do not use native controls.
have been invested in Qt because you're going to be re-inventing and
re-implementing all standard control interactions. This is a HUGE
undertaking and just another reason why I think your GUI framework is
destined to die off.
Mr Flibble
Jan 9, 2018, 1:39:09 PM1/9/18
to
though Microsoft still update it. It is because MFC is shit compared to
the present day competition. A design goal of neoGFX is to render Qt
shit in comparison to it; I see no reason why this is an unachievable goal.
Mr Flibble
Jan 9, 2018, 1:41:52 PM1/9/18
to
On 09/01/2018 18:16, Richard wrote:
> [Please do not mail me a copy of your followup]
>
> Mr Flibble <flibbleREM...@i42.co.uk> spake the secret code
> <rJadndWc2fQPg8nH...@giganews.com> thusly:
>
>> At the moment OpenGL; in the future DirectX (via OpenGL ES) and Vulkan
>> too. I do not use native controls.
>
> So you better be prepared to invest the same number of man years as
> have been invested in Qt because you're going to be re-inventing and
> re-implementing all standard control interactions. This is a HUGE
> undertaking and just another reason why I think your GUI framework is
> destined to die off.
ORLY? Then kindly explain how neoGFX's widget library is over 75%
> [Please do not mail me a copy of your followup]
>
> Mr Flibble <flibbleREM...@i42.co.uk> spake the secret code
> <rJadndWc2fQPg8nH...@giganews.com> thusly:
>
>> At the moment OpenGL; in the future DirectX (via OpenGL ES) and Vulkan
>> too. I do not use native controls.
>
> So you better be prepared to invest the same number of man years as
> have been invested in Qt because you're going to be re-inventing and
> re-implementing all standard control interactions. This is a HUGE
> undertaking and just another reason why I think your GUI framework is
> destined to die off.
complete with less than two man-evening years of effort?
Rick C. Hodgin
Jan 9, 2018, 1:43:34 PM1/9/18
to
On 1/8/2018 8:07 PM, Mr Flibble wrote:
> On 09/01/2018 00:56, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>> On 1/8/2018 7:45 PM, Mr Flibble wrote:
>>>> At this point, I don't see any GUI library displacing either of these
>>>> [wxWidgets and Qt] except for toy projects.
>>>
>>> Would you bet your life savings on that?
>>
>> You should create either a compatibility layer (if you don't already
>> have one) that enables existing wxWidgets code and Qt code to compile
>> without any changes (or to compile with only minimal changes), or you
>> could create a cross-compiler which takes wxWidgets and Qt code and
>> refactors it to work with neoGFX.
>
> Alternatively I should not do that. I should not do that.
Why wouldn't you want to make it transparent for existing wxWidgets
>> On 1/8/2018 7:45 PM, Mr Flibble wrote:
>>>> At this point, I don't see any GUI library displacing either of these
>>>> [wxWidgets and Qt] except for toy projects.
>>>
>>> Would you bet your life savings on that?
>>
>> You should create either a compatibility layer (if you don't already
>> have one) that enables existing wxWidgets code and Qt code to compile
>> without any changes (or to compile with only minimal changes), or you
>> could create a cross-compiler which takes wxWidgets and Qt code and
>> refactors it to work with neoGFX.
>
> Alternatively I should not do that. I should not do that.
and Qt users to switch over?
If I had a GUI library available with as many features and controls
as yours, and I could save money, and lose nothing of substance in
the switch ... why wouldn't I switch?
Mr Flibble
Jan 9, 2018, 1:49:47 PM1/9/18
to
On 09/01/2018 18:43, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> On 1/8/2018 8:07 PM, Mr Flibble wrote:
>> On 09/01/2018 00:56, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>>> On 1/8/2018 7:45 PM, Mr Flibble wrote:
>>>>> At this point, I don't see any GUI library displacing either of these
>>>>> [wxWidgets and Qt] except for toy projects.
>>>>
>>>> Would you bet your life savings on that?
>>>
>>> You should create either a compatibility layer (if you don't already
>>> have one) that enables existing wxWidgets code and Qt code to compile
>>> without any changes (or to compile with only minimal changes), or you
>>> could create a cross-compiler which takes wxWidgets and Qt code and
>>> refactors it to work with neoGFX.
>>
>> Alternatively I should not do that. I should not do that.
>
> Why wouldn't you want to make it transparent for existing wxWidgets
> and Qt users to switch over?
>
> If I had a GUI library available with as many features and controls
> as yours, and I could save money, and lose nothing of substance in
> the switch ... why wouldn't I switch?
Your underestimate how big a task writing such code conversion tools
> On 1/8/2018 8:07 PM, Mr Flibble wrote:
>> On 09/01/2018 00:56, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>>> On 1/8/2018 7:45 PM, Mr Flibble wrote:
>>>>> At this point, I don't see any GUI library displacing either of these
>>>>> [wxWidgets and Qt] except for toy projects.
>>>>
>>>> Would you bet your life savings on that?
>>>
>>> You should create either a compatibility layer (if you don't already
>>> have one) that enables existing wxWidgets code and Qt code to compile
>>> without any changes (or to compile with only minimal changes), or you
>>> could create a cross-compiler which takes wxWidgets and Qt code and
>>> refactors it to work with neoGFX.
>>
>> Alternatively I should not do that. I should not do that.
>
> Why wouldn't you want to make it transparent for existing wxWidgets
> and Qt users to switch over?
>
> If I had a GUI library available with as many features and controls
> as yours, and I could save money, and lose nothing of substance in
> the switch ... why wouldn't I switch?
would be. I would be spending most of my time updating the conversion
tools whenever Qt or wxWidgets changed than I would be spending time on
improving neoGFX itself.
I am happy with the state of affairs being such that migrating to neoGFX
will require writing a GUI from scratch or converting an existing one by
hand.
What I might do however (if I can find the time) is add an import tool
to my GUI editor that imports Qt .ui files and generates GUI code that way.
Thiago Adams
Jan 9, 2018, 1:50:16 PM1/9/18
to
On Tuesday, January 9, 2018 at 4:39:09 PM UTC-2, Mr Flibble wrote:
> On 09/01/2018 15:52, Thiago Adams wrote:
> > On Tuesday, January 9, 2018 at 1:24:31 PM UTC-2, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> >> Mr Flibble writes:
> >>> On 08/01/2018 19:49, Thiago Adams wrote:
> >>>> On Monday, January 8, 2018 at 5:17:51 PM UTC-2, Mr Flibble wrote:
> >>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXvKOwQ4mvY
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> My suggestion for GUI libraries is starting the project
> >>>> creating a GUI editor that is implemented using the GUI
> >>>> library itself.
> >>>
> >>> IMO a good GUI library should be easy to use with a GUI editor AND be
> >>> elegant to write code for. This is the primary goal for neoGFX.
> >>>
> >>
> >> Although it is a truism that elegance is in the eye of the beholder.
> >
> > The beauty of the code is according which the hierarchy of
> > values we build in your minds.
> > This hierarchy can be different for each person.
> >
> >
> > In addition, some successful libraries or computer languages do not have to be the most perfect to succeed.
> > They must work, solve the problem, be available and be
> > well known and widespread. I do not use QT, but I think it was successful. The same for MFC.
>
> Thiago, ask yourself why nobody uses MFC today except for legacy even
> though Microsoft still update it. It is because MFC is shit compared to
> the present day competition. A design goal of neoGFX is to render Qt
> shit in comparison to it; I see no reason why this is an unachievable goal.
I use Win32 + D2D API with some wrappers I did for
> On 09/01/2018 15:52, Thiago Adams wrote:
> > On Tuesday, January 9, 2018 at 1:24:31 PM UTC-2, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> >> Mr Flibble writes:
> >>> On 08/01/2018 19:49, Thiago Adams wrote:
> >>>> On Monday, January 8, 2018 at 5:17:51 PM UTC-2, Mr Flibble wrote:
> >>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXvKOwQ4mvY
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> My suggestion for GUI libraries is starting the project
> >>>> creating a GUI editor that is implemented using the GUI
> >>>> library itself.
> >>>
> >>> IMO a good GUI library should be easy to use with a GUI editor AND be
> >>> elegant to write code for. This is the primary goal for neoGFX.
> >>>
> >>
> >> Although it is a truism that elegance is in the eye of the beholder.
> >
> > The beauty of the code is according which the hierarchy of
> > values we build in your minds.
> > This hierarchy can be different for each person.
> >
> >
> > In addition, some successful libraries or computer languages do not have to be the most perfect to succeed.
> > They must work, solve the problem, be available and be
> > well known and widespread. I do not use QT, but I think it was successful. The same for MFC.
>
> Thiago, ask yourself why nobody uses MFC today except for legacy even
> though Microsoft still update it. It is because MFC is shit compared to
> the present day competition. A design goal of neoGFX is to render Qt
> shit in comparison to it; I see no reason why this is an unachievable goal.
desktop apps.
For multiplataform code, I need mobile (android, ios)
more than linux so I think that javascript + electron + cordova
is the better option in this scenario.
Rick C. Hodgin
Jan 9, 2018, 1:54:47 PM1/9/18
to
On 1/9/2018 1:49 PM, Mr Flibble wrote:
> On 09/01/2018 18:43, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>> On 1/8/2018 8:07 PM, Mr Flibble wrote:
>>> On 09/01/2018 00:56, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>>>> On 1/8/2018 7:45 PM, Mr Flibble wrote:
>>>>>> At this point, I don't see any GUI library displacing either of these
>>>>>> [wxWidgets and Qt] except for toy projects.
>>>>>
>>>>> Would you bet your life savings on that?
>>>>
>>>> You should create either a compatibility layer (if you don't already
>>>> have one) that enables existing wxWidgets code and Qt code to compile
>>>> without any changes (or to compile with only minimal changes), or you
>>>> could create a cross-compiler which takes wxWidgets and Qt code and
>>>> refactors it to work with neoGFX.
>>>
>>> Alternatively I should not do that. I should not do that.
>>
>> Why wouldn't you want to make it transparent for existing wxWidgets
>> and Qt users to switch over?
>>
>> If I had a GUI library available with as many features and controls
>> as yours, and I could save money, and lose nothing of substance in
>> the switch ... why wouldn't I switch?
>
> Your underestimate how big a task writing such code conversion tools
> would be. I would be spending most of my time updating the conversion
> tools whenever Qt or wxWidgets changed than I would be spending time on
> improving neoGFX itself.
I think if you targeted a percentage of automatic conversion, and then
> On 09/01/2018 18:43, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>> On 1/8/2018 8:07 PM, Mr Flibble wrote:
>>> On 09/01/2018 00:56, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>>>> On 1/8/2018 7:45 PM, Mr Flibble wrote:
>>>>>> At this point, I don't see any GUI library displacing either of these
>>>>>> [wxWidgets and Qt] except for toy projects.
>>>>>
>>>>> Would you bet your life savings on that?
>>>>
>>>> You should create either a compatibility layer (if you don't already
>>>> have one) that enables existing wxWidgets code and Qt code to compile
>>>> without any changes (or to compile with only minimal changes), or you
>>>> could create a cross-compiler which takes wxWidgets and Qt code and
>>>> refactors it to work with neoGFX.
>>>
>>> Alternatively I should not do that. I should not do that.
>>
>> Why wouldn't you want to make it transparent for existing wxWidgets
>> and Qt users to switch over?
>>
>> If I had a GUI library available with as many features and controls
>> as yours, and I could save money, and lose nothing of substance in
>> the switch ... why wouldn't I switch?
>
> Your underestimate how big a task writing such code conversion tools
> would be. I would be spending most of my time updating the conversion
> tools whenever Qt or wxWidgets changed than I would be spending time on
> improving neoGFX itself.
had them fixup some parts manually it owuld be better than a whole, new,
manual effort.
And if you gain traction, I think a full conversion utility would be
just what's needed to draw business your way. If you get to that point
and are interested, look me up and I will write it for you.
> I am happy with the state of affairs being such that migrating to neoGFX
> will require writing a GUI from scratch or converting an existing one by
> hand.
>
> What I might do however (if I can find the time) is add an import tool
> to my GUI editor that imports Qt .ui files and generates GUI code that way.
I used it was in late mid/late 2000s when we were evaluating what GUI
to go with.
I would encourage you with neoGFX. You've put in a lot of hard work
and it will improve our applications. The screenshots I've seen at
various points have made me say, "Oooh. Awwe." I would have to say
well done.
Richard
Jan 9, 2018, 2:08:18 PM1/9/18
to
[Please do not mail me a copy of your followup]
Thiago Adams <thiago...@gmail.com> spake the secret code
<f99efd57-26c4-4f30...@googlegroups.com> thusly:
>For multiplataform code, I need mobile (android, ios)
>more than linux so I think that javascript + electron + cordova
>is the better option in this scenario.
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AZMEm3rZ2Y>
TL;DR: Put almost everything into cross-platform C++ and only the
thinnest veneer of UI done per-platform in the native toolkit.
Mr Flibble
Jan 9, 2018, 2:22:43 PM1/9/18
to
On 09/01/2018 19:08, Richard wrote:
> [Please do not mail me a copy of your followup]
>
> Thiago Adams <thiago...@gmail.com> spake the secret code
> <f99efd57-26c4-4f30...@googlegroups.com> thusly:
>
>> For multiplataform code, I need mobile (android, ios)
>> more than linux so I think that javascript + electron + cordova
>> is the better option in this scenario.
>
> You might find the case study by DropBox informative:
> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AZMEm3rZ2Y>
>
> TL;DR: Put almost everything into cross-platform C++ and only the
> thinnest veneer of UI done per-platform in the native toolkit.
You really are a beginner. It is standard practice to separate code
> [Please do not mail me a copy of your followup]
>
> Thiago Adams <thiago...@gmail.com> spake the secret code
> <f99efd57-26c4-4f30...@googlegroups.com> thusly:
>
>> For multiplataform code, I need mobile (android, ios)
>> more than linux so I think that javascript + electron + cordova
>> is the better option in this scenario.
>
> You might find the case study by DropBox informative:
> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AZMEm3rZ2Y>
>
> TL;DR: Put almost everything into cross-platform C++ and only the
> thinnest veneer of UI done per-platform in the native toolkit.
into non-GUI ("model") and GUI ("view") parts and should be done totally
independently of any choice of GUI library. I suggest you read up on the
MVC pattern.
Thiago Adams
Jan 9, 2018, 2:47:25 PM1/9/18
to
On Tuesday, January 9, 2018 at 5:22:43 PM UTC-2, Mr Flibble wrote:
> On 09/01/2018 19:08, Richard wrote:
> > [Please do not mail me a copy of your followup]
> >
> > Thiago Adams spake the secret code
> On 09/01/2018 19:08, Richard wrote:
> > [Please do not mail me a copy of your followup]
> >
> > thusly:
> >
> >> For multiplataform code, I need mobile (android, ios)
> >> more than linux so I think that javascript + electron + cordova
> >> is the better option in this scenario.
> >
> > You might find the case study by DropBox informative:
> > <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AZMEm3rZ2Y>
> >
> > TL;DR: Put almost everything into cross-platform C++ and only the
> > thinnest veneer of UI done per-platform in the native toolkit.
>
> You really are a beginner. It is standard practice to separate code
> into non-GUI ("model") and GUI ("view") parts and should be done totally
> independently of any choice of GUI library. I suggest you read up on the
> MVC pattern.
>
> /Flibble
Do you mean implement only the UI for each platform?
> >
> >> For multiplataform code, I need mobile (android, ios)
> >> more than linux so I think that javascript + electron + cordova
> >> is the better option in this scenario.
> >
> > You might find the case study by DropBox informative:
> > <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AZMEm3rZ2Y>
> >
> > TL;DR: Put almost everything into cross-platform C++ and only the
> > thinnest veneer of UI done per-platform in the native toolkit.
>
> You really are a beginner. It is standard practice to separate code
> into non-GUI ("model") and GUI ("view") parts and should be done totally
> independently of any choice of GUI library. I suggest you read up on the
> MVC pattern.
>
> /Flibble
The "only" is funny.
Only means android, ios, web, windows dekstop, linux,
windows phone..
This may work for big companies.
Richard
Jan 9, 2018, 5:13:17 PM1/9/18
to
[Please do not mail me a copy of your followup]
Thiago Adams <thiago...@gmail.com> spake the secret code
<31b4ac83-b447-4398...@googlegroups.com> thusly:
>Do you mean implement only the UI for each platform?
that they attempted initially to do what he suggested but found that
they were duplicating lots of view logic, hence they ended up with the
view logic in the cross-platform C++ side of things and only added a
thin veneer of delegating UI code for each platform.
>Only means android, ios, web, windows dekstop, linux,
>windows phone..
>
>This may work for big companies.
They had already done the complete duplicate-the-entire-app between
iOS and Android and for their next version were determined not to
repeat that mistake and duplicate as little as possible between
platforms. This is (a positive) real-world experience and worth
watching and understanding, even if you disagree with their approach.
That's why I suggested it may be of interest to you. You are, of
course, free to ignore it.
Thiago Adams
Jan 17, 2018, 7:45:26 AM1/17/18
to
On Monday, January 8, 2018 at 11:45:05 PM UTC-2, Mr Flibble wrote:
> On 09/01/2018 01:42, Thiago Adams wrote:
> > On Monday, January 8, 2018 at 5:17:51 PM UTC-2, Mr Flibble wrote:
> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXvKOwQ4mvY
> >>
> >> --
> >> "Suppose it’s all true, and you walk up to the pearly gates, and are
> >> confronted by God," Bryne asked on his show The Meaning of Life. "What
> >> will Stephen Fry say to him, her, or it?"
> >> "I’d say, bone cancer in children? What’s that about?" Fry replied.
> >> "How dare you? How dare you create a world to which there is such misery
> >> that is not our fault. It’s not right, it’s utterly, utterly evil."
> >> "Why should I respect a capricious, mean-minded, stupid God who creates
> >> a world that is so full of injustice and pain. That’s what I would say."
> >
> > What is the graphics back-end on windows? gdi, gdi+, direc2d?
> > Do you use native controls? Native menu?
>
> At the moment OpenGL; in the future DirectX (via OpenGL ES) and Vulkan
> too. I do not use native controls.
Mr Flibble and others could you watch this:
> On 09/01/2018 01:42, Thiago Adams wrote:
> > On Monday, January 8, 2018 at 5:17:51 PM UTC-2, Mr Flibble wrote:
> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXvKOwQ4mvY
> >>
> >> --
> >> "Suppose it’s all true, and you walk up to the pearly gates, and are
> >> confronted by God," Bryne asked on his show The Meaning of Life. "What
> >> will Stephen Fry say to him, her, or it?"
> >> "I’d say, bone cancer in children? What’s that about?" Fry replied.
> >> "How dare you? How dare you create a world to which there is such misery
> >> that is not our fault. It’s not right, it’s utterly, utterly evil."
> >> "Why should I respect a capricious, mean-minded, stupid God who creates
> >> a world that is so full of injustice and pain. That’s what I would say."
> >
> > What is the graphics back-end on windows? gdi, gdi+, direc2d?
> > Do you use native controls? Native menu?
>
> At the moment OpenGL; in the future DirectX (via OpenGL ES) and Vulkan
> too. I do not use native controls.
It's about webassembly, and alternatives for UI running
in webbrowsers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiLAE6HMr10&feature=youtu.be&t=27m28s
and tell me what do you think.
Please also see
https://pbrfrat.com/post/imgui_in_browser.html
and
https://github.com/ocornut/imgui
Should a new UI framework be separated from Web and
run only in desktop?
What do you think?
I think that the new UI must run in browsers.
It also can be very good to have 100% native apps without
browsers, but I think both will be possible and they
can share C/C++ code.
Flibble, maybe you can adapt your gui to run in a browser
using webassembly and webgl.
Mr Flibble
Jan 17, 2018, 3:50:28 PM1/17/18
to
/Flibble
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