APL in Colorado, USA? Am I the last one?
vess_...@hotmail.com
developer, especially here in the Rocky Mountain West.
I would love to hear from APL users in this region; say, in Montana,
Wyoming, Colorado and/or New Mexico. Say hello and maybe there is a
free beer in the deal if I am passing through your town.
I know of one large APL application in SE Denver that is still being
maintained after 27 years of service. The company is investing no
significant development resources into this application .... just fix,
patch and pray it still works.
Perhaps an actuary here or there is using APL.
IBM Boulder manages their APL2 product 3,000 feet below me (in
Colorado we measure geography in altitude, not distance). Do they use
it themselves? I don't know.
I am getting the sinking sensation that I may be the last person for
500 miles around who is actually doing serious development in APL.
I am a graduate mechanical engineer, so I would be doubly pleased to
hear from another engineer who uses APL (I have never previously met
one). Recently I began toying with the idea of doing something with
APL, ActiveX and AutoCAD to "parameterize" the creation of drawing
objects more effectively then using the current standards, VBA or
AutoLISP. Holding me back on this initiative is the thought of making
a sales call on a large engineering shop, facing a sea of hundreds of
engineers, and getting that dreaded "What is APL, never heard of it"
question.
Do I really need that kind of grief?
Oh well, please chime in if you live a mile or more above sea level!
LOL.
Regards,
Vess Irvine (STSC alumni)
Estes Park, Colorado
Morten Kromberg
Hi Vess,
I'm only about 30 feet above the sea here in Denmark (but I still
remember Norway :-). I'm afraid I don't have much of an idea about APL
in Colorado. I'd be very surprised if there isn't some lurking in
unexpected places...
Really wanted to comment on your worry about the "What is APL, never
heard of it" question ... I know this used to be a big issue some
years ago, but at the moment we very rarely hear the question. If you
say "My solution is delivered as an ActiveX - or better yet as a
Dotnet Assembly", then this will assume it was written in something
"normal". And if they do ask how it was implemented and you say "I use
an specialist array-oriented language called APL", people tend to just
say "uhum" these days. They have become accustomed to big players in
the market using stuff like Python, Ruby and F#. The world is rapidly
becoming less language-bigoted than it was in the DotCom boom years,
where anyone could have a million dollars to rewrite anything in C++,
losing 90% of the functionality on the way. People actually get fired
for that sort of thing today - halleluya!
So if you have a good idea - go for it! If you would like some advice
on how to wrap your solution up so nobody can tell you are not using C
(or embed it in a web page so there really is no way to find out),
drop us a line, we are more than happy to help anyone trying to get an
APL-based venture off the ground!
Regards,
Morten Kromberg,
Dyalog Ltd.
llund
> Sometimes is gets lonely, in a professional sense, being an APL
> developer, especially here in the Rocky Mountain West.
>
>
> Oh well, please chime in if you live a mile or more above sea level!
> LOL.
>
> Regards,
> Vess Irvine (STSC alumni)
> Estes Park, Colorado
I'm more than a mile above sea level. But I don't do 'pure' APL. My
array language experience is J and A+. But it looks like I won't be
at this elevation much longer. I'll be heading east on I-70 in late
June as I move to Morgantown, WV. But before that I'll be coming
through in a vehicle transport pass. Taking my ex-wife's Miata to
her
in Morgantown at the end of the April.
She is moving to Morgantown to get a better federal job. So my son
is moving. So I plan to tag along (devoted dad here). Maybe I'll
find some APL (or derivative) work in Pittsburgh.
Best regards,
Lorin Lund
Parowan, UT (6100 ft.)
exit 75, I-15.
jgr...@comcast.net
I'm a software engineer in Boulder using APL2 for algorithm
development and prototyping in Ballistic Missile Defense. I began my
career at IBM Owego the same year Jim Brown did.
I've been using APL for over 40 years.
You may be surprised to learn that in a few months Ray Polivka is
scheduled to teach his APL2 course at our facility. One young fellow
who works with me has been a Matlab user. But now, as he describes
it, "on the cusp" of believing that APL2 is "Matlab on steroids".
He and a handful of others plan to take the course.
Jack Rudd
Northrop Grumman Corp.
formerly Lockheed Martin (ret.)
formerly IBM Federal Systems Division (ret.)
AAsk
Matlab fellow. Perhaps a book on APL and advanced mathematics is
needed.
A while ago,
1. I was exploring the shortest path problem using APL: I wanted to
list all the paths. The shortest path is easily given by APL, see
Learning & Applying APL by B Legrand. No APL text book delved into
this area ie. enumerate all the paths. Google highlighted several non-
APL solutions. Eventually I found an APL solution written by a US
academic (can't remember the URL).
2. A colleague was doing an investifation. Take the UK national
lottery - it has 6!49 combinations where the first (1,2,3,4,5,6) and
the last (44,45,46,47,48,49) have each got a sum and the number of
combinations that have the same respective sum is exactly 1. The
objective was to list each sum between the 2 with the number of
combinations ... quickly. After a lot of experimentation, the solution
ran in less than 2 minutes on a 1.6 GHz Pentium processor.
I've heard that APL had something to do with the planning of the
(glass) roof of the British Library but not read about it.
More in print on the undeniable case for APL would be very welcome.
Would it not?
Jack
What swayed the Matlab fellow was working with me and seeing that I
could develop new approaches using APL2, and test them, before he
could begin to start doing so. He then started using APL2 himself
beginning with a workspace of mine as a template.
Yes, it would be welcome; but people just don't believe until they see
for themselves. And many don't believe even then. It's too
unsettling, apparently.
jk
"Jack" <jgr...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:a5fca65a-1430-445a...@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
> On Apr 23, 11:51 pm, AAsk <AA2e...@lycos.co.uk> wrote:
>> It would be interesting to read a detailed account of what swayed the
>> Matlab fellow. Perhaps a book on APL and advanced mathematics is
>> needed.
>
> Yes, it would be welcome; but people just don't believe until they see
> for themselves. And many don't believe even then. It's too
> unsettling, apparently.
[...]
That's right! I once wrote an article in a computer weekly on APL/K and
mentioned among other examples your DARPA application, as presented at APL9?
(and which I remember as the day of yesterday - your Texan hat, your boots and
knickerbocker (maybe the latter two were just in my imagination, but that was
the picture) ) and published in the proceedings.
A few weeks later it was refered to in the same magazine as a "hoax" by some
High & Mighty - as if one couldn't show what's being told!
Narrow is the road ...
jk
Stephen Taylor <editor@vector.org.uk>
> On Apr 23, 11:51 pm, AAsk <AA2e...@lycos.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>
> > It would be interesting to read a detailed account of what swayed the
> > Matlab fellow. Perhaps a book on APL and advanced mathematics is
> > needed.
>
>
> > More in print on the undeniable case for APL would be very welcome.
> > Would it not?
>
> What swayed the Matlab fellow was working with me and seeing that I
> could develop new approaches using APL2, and test them, before he
> could begin to start doing so. He then started using APL2 himself
> beginning with a workspace of mine as a template.
>
Any chance of a longer account of this for Vector?
Stephen Taylor
edi...@vector.org.uk
David Liebtag
What a great quote!
David
Jack
wrote:
Thanks for remembering. It was at APL90 in Copenhagen. Jim Brown co-
authored the paper, so it's difficult to understand how anyone could
have claimed it was a hoax.
If you visit www.fastdraw.org and go to the very bottom of the
"gallery" section, you'll see a 1997 picture of my kids and me in our
Western rigs. Each of us is drawing a .45 caliber revolver. My son
was 7 years old when he competed in his first fast draw contest. And
we're still competing. This is no hoax.
Jack
Jack
I've been thinking about asking my co-worker to write up his
impressions and experiences with APL2. Perhaps it would be better to
bring this up with him after he takes Ray's course. On the other
hand, perhaps by doing this now he might encourage others to take the
course. Developing... (as Drudge says)
Jack
jk
> On Apr 24, 1:02 am, "jk" <*a...@planet.nl (remove the asterisks)>
> wrote:
>> "Jack" <jgr...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>
>> news:a5fca65a-1430-445a...@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> > On Apr 23, 11:51 pm, AAsk <AA2e...@lycos.co.uk> wrote:
>> >> It would be interesting to read a detailed account of what swayed the
>> >> Matlab fellow. Perhaps a book on APL and advanced mathematics is
>> >> needed.
>> [...]
>>
>> > Yes, it would be welcome; but people just don't believe until they see
>> > for themselves. And many don't believe even then. It's too
>> > unsettling, apparently.
>>
>> [...]
>>
>> That's right! I once wrote an article in a computer weekly on APL/K and
>> mentioned among other examples your DARPA application, as presented at APL9?
[...]
>
> Thanks for remembering. It was at APL90 in Copenhagen. Jim Brown co-
> authored the paper, so it's difficult to understand how anyone could
> have claimed it was a hoax.
>
Similar to the story on an instance where Arthur Whitney embarrassed some
manager with an SQL-query on their ("legacy"-) system ("We can do that too ...")
and in which the process got hopelessly stuck and remained silent for a quarter
of an hour or so, and the manager murmured: I really got to go now! (this story
was published, I lost it, I forgot the name ... by some Dan ? (4 letters), later
founder of Sustainable Systems Toronto (environmental) ... anyways we were
sitting in the McVeigh's cafe in Toronto APL97 - that's all I remember)
(will have a look at your pictures)
jk
"jk" <*axy*@planet.nl (remove the asterisks)> wrote in message
news:48118590$0$6004$ba62...@text.nova.planet.nl...
> of an hour or so, and the manager murmured: I really got to go now! (this
> story
> was published, I lost it, I forgot the name ... by some Dan ? (4 letters),
> later
> founder of Sustainable Systems Toronto (environmental) ... anyways we were
> sitting in the McVeigh's cafe in Toronto APL97 - that's all I remember)
all of a sudden his name "came through": Dan King
Dan, if you're reading this, please could you hand me a copy of that article?
I saved it for a long time and lost it in a disk crash.
Thanks!
Olivier Lefevre
> APL2 is "Matlab on steroids"
But without the creature comforts, i.e., all those libraries ("toolboxes"
in MatLab parlance). Of course if you don't use them that changes the
equation but I don't think it is the common scenario.
-- O.L.
jk
because of spam, we have more friends in US and we cann't send mails to them.
So, should I search the 1997-lines for the photgraphs?
"Jack" <jgr...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:d910be4c-c52c-41af...@k1g2000prb.googlegroups.com...
Jack
> > "gallery" section, you'll see a 1997 picture of my kids and me in our
> > Western rigs. Each of us is drawing a .45 caliber revolver. My son
> > was 7 years old when he competed in his first fast draw contest. And
> > we're still competing. This is no hoax.
>
> > Jack
I don't understand the question. Are you able to bring up the site
www.fastdraw.org ?
jk
Yes, I can, and I see a list of events, and then a link Photo Gallery
should I go there and pick the 1997-lines?
Bob Cain
Since APL came well before Matlab (which would never have come at all had
IBM...) and because I have development experience in both I'd be more inclined
to say that Matlab is APL on acid. :-)
Bob
--
"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no simpler."
A. Einstein
Jack
No, go to the very bottom. The last entry says something about
father, son and daughter.
The picture was taken in my back yard.
Also, if you click on "2006 Double or Nothing Shoot Out", the first
picture is of me.
This contest, at the old mining town of Cripple Creek, Colorado, had
55 contestants, both male and female, from all over the USA and
Canada. I took 2nd place among 35 very competitive men.
In this contest one must hit two widely separated balloons. The timer
starts when the signal light goes on, and stops when the 2nd balloon
is hit. My best total time was 0.48 seconds, and this includes
cocking the hammer twice (since the revolver is an old-fashioned
single action, just like the 1871 Peacemaker).
In the picture you can see the target that held the balloon I had just
hit, and I had just fired at the 2nd balloon on my right. My green
cartridge box is obscuring my barrel. Exploded balloons are
littering the floor near the targets.
We're shooting blanks at the balloons, but the .45 cases are filled
full with black powder. Some of the powder is still unburned when it
hits the balloon, and that is what explodes it. The flame shoots
about about six feet. It sounds as loud as a shotgun.
Jack
jk
>
> No, go to the very bottom. The last entry says something about
> father, son and daughter.
> The picture was taken in my back yard.
>
> Jack
... found 'em Jack. Exciting picture! esp the boy's face!
I was wondering about the safety "protocol" in such sessions, is that loosely
(looks like) or zero-tolerance?
(sorry guys for this private - off-topic - conversation, I can't reach Jack;
Comcast seems to be blocking every mail from certain other providers)
jk
"jk" <aq...@planet.nl (not the q's)> wrote in message news:...
According to some professional "internet refusal expert" Comcast's conduct is
illegal.
Seth
jk <aq...@planet.nl (not the q's)> wrote:
>According to some professional "internet refusal expert" Comcast's conduct is
>illegal.
According to US law, it's quite legal. (The spammer who was suing
them had his head handed to him by the judge.)
Seth
jk
Jack
Yes, he's 18 now and is outshooting me except in double balloon
elimination.
Fast draw is the safest (and fastest) shooting sport in the world,
partly because we don't use lead bullets; only blanks or wax bullets,
depending on the event. As we get faster and faster, we all
eventually shoot ourselves in the leg; but the damage is quite limited
and temporary.
RHu...@shaw.ca
combsum=: 4 : 0 M.
if. (x>:y)+.0=x do. ,: 1 ,~ +/"1 i.(x<:y),x
else. (~.@[ ,. +//.)/ |: (((x-1),0)+"1 x combsum&<: y),(x,0)+"1 x
combsum y-1 end.
)
6!:2 't=. 6 0 (+"1) 6 combsum 49'
0.0252536
That is, 0.025 seconds.
$t
259 2
3{.t
21 1
22 1
23 2
_3{.t
277 2
278 1
279 1
Details in http://www.jsoftware.com/jwiki/Essays/Combination_Sums
vess_...@hotmail.com
I think my thread has been hijacked! Oh Well.
Your point about our ability to "hide" the APL of commercial
applications and how many customers no longer care about the tools
used to write the code, is very interesting; especially that you have
seen such changes in customer views in just the last few years.
In the case of an APL <==> AutoCAD capability using ActiveX, I think
making the APL a very visible part of the product is what is needed.
The whole idea would be to replace VBA (Visual Basic for Applications)
with APL. The reason for VBA in AutoCAD is so users can program
repetitive tasks to create components of an AutoCAD drawing. The key
word here is "programming."
Also one could query AutoCAD drawings for information to then use in,
say; a finite element analysis, which should be right up APL's alley.
If one could perform the same tasks with vastly fewer lines of code in
APL, rather then in VBA, plus the excellant code "reading" benefits of
APL, I would think AutoCAD engineers would gain a distinct advantage.
But yes, the engineers would have to learn APL in this scenario. And
they would each probably have to have a full license to an APL
interpreter.
Implementing such a product could be very easy since no user interface
is required. The APL editor would suffice. My contribution would be
mostly documentation and case study examples to show users how to do
it, say; to design a bridge or a dirigible or an iPOD.
That plus a few cover functions to call the AutoCAD ActiveX commands.
Regards
Vess Irvine
Estes Park, Colorado, USA
PS: Hey, maybe there could be a "book" in here somewhere. Ah, but
would the book pay a decent salary to the author? LOL. Good question.
Jack
> A solution to problem 2 in J.
>
> combsum=: 4 : 0 M.
> if. (x>:y)+.0=x do. ,: 1 ,~ +/"1 i.(x<:y),x
> else. (~.@[ ,. +//.)/ |: (((x-1),0)+"1 x combsum&<: y),(x,0)+"1 x
> combsum y-1 end.
> )
>
> 6!:2 't=. 6 0 (+"1) 6 combsum 49'
> 0.0252536
>
> That is, 0.025 seconds.
>
> $t
> 259 2
> 3{.t
> 21 1
> 22 1
> 23 2
> _3{.t
> 277 2
> 278 1
> 279 1
>
>
> On Apr 23, 10:51 pm, AAsk <AA2e...@lycos.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > It would be interesting to read a detailed account of what swayed the
> > Matlab fellow. Perhaps a book on APL and advanced mathematics is
> > needed.
>
> > A while ago,
>
> > 1. I was exploring the shortest path problem using APL: I wanted to
> > list all the paths. The shortest path is easily given by APL, see
> > Learning & Applying APL by B Legrand. No APL text book delved into
> > this area ie. enumerate all the paths. Google highlighted several non-
> > APL solutions. Eventually I found an APL solution written by a US
> > academic (can't remember the URL).
>
> > 2. A colleague was doing an investifation. Take the UK national
> > lottery - it has 6!49 combinations where the first (1,2,3,4,5,6) and
> > the last (44,45,46,47,48,49) have each got a sum and the number of
> > combinations that have the same respective sum is exactly 1. The
> > objective was to list each sum between the 2 with the number of
> > combinations ... quickly. After a lot of experimentation, the solution
> > ran in less than 2 minutes on a 1.6 GHz Pentium processor.
>
> > I've heard that APL had something to do with the planning of the
> > (glass) roof of the British Library but not read about it.
>
> > More in print on the undeniable case for APL would be very welcome.
> > Would it not?
Wow.
Steve
I'm a wayward APLer living just down the hill from you in Lyons. APL
was my third language after Fortran and Basic (ugh), followed by
Forth, Pascal, C, C++, Java, Lisp, and Python. I program
professionally in Python, sometimes using NumPy (an array programming
package for Python), and play with A+ and J.
Regards,
Steve
jk
Steve, Vess, Jack & Bob: 4 to a population of ą 5mln - not bad ...
"Steve" <st...@shrogers.com> wrote in message
news:396c534f-fb50-416a...@27g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...