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Promoting Ada via facebook/google+ ....
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Michael Erdmann
Oct 7, 2012, 12:26:47 PM10/7/12
to
Why this post?
Yesterday while checking through comp.lang.ada i stumbled upon the
following statement from Patrick:
... There are too many sites that make it seem like Ada is dead...
Frankly speaking i have to agree; the Ada community seems to be like
an endangered animal; successfully existing unseen in a niche.
What i would propose
Persuade the Ada Information House to become visible in facebook
as it is done my NASA, ESA etc. by presenting the events
they are showing on there first page in a time line.
All the enthusiasts in this community should gather together to
maintain a fan page in facebook to create better visibility of there
activities, means events, software releases ...
Please take facebook just as a place holder for any other kind
of social network where we could achieve some visibility.
I am not at all sure that this helps but i guess it will do
no harm to hook into social network and try to get some
attention there;
Any comments ideas .... or is every thing fine as it is?
/Michel
Yesterday while checking through comp.lang.ada i stumbled upon the
following statement from Patrick:
... There are too many sites that make it seem like Ada is dead...
Frankly speaking i have to agree; the Ada community seems to be like
an endangered animal; successfully existing unseen in a niche.
What i would propose
Persuade the Ada Information House to become visible in facebook
as it is done my NASA, ESA etc. by presenting the events
they are showing on there first page in a time line.
All the enthusiasts in this community should gather together to
maintain a fan page in facebook to create better visibility of there
activities, means events, software releases ...
Please take facebook just as a place holder for any other kind
of social network where we could achieve some visibility.
I am not at all sure that this helps but i guess it will do
no harm to hook into social network and try to get some
attention there;
Any comments ideas .... or is every thing fine as it is?
/Michel
Niklas Holsti
Oct 7, 2012, 4:49:49 PM10/7/12
to
On 12-10-07 19:26 , Michael Erdmann wrote:
> Why this post?
>
> Yesterday while checking through comp.lang.ada i stumbled upon the
> following statement from Patrick:
>
> ... There are too many sites that make it seem like Ada is dead...
>
> Frankly speaking i have to agree; the Ada community seems to be like
> an endangered animal; successfully existing unseen in a niche.
One reason for that is that any "pushy" promotion of Ada tends to
> Why this post?
>
> Yesterday while checking through comp.lang.ada i stumbled upon the
> following statement from Patrick:
>
> ... There are too many sites that make it seem like Ada is dead...
>
> Frankly speaking i have to agree; the Ada community seems to be like
> an endangered animal; successfully existing unseen in a niche.
trigger an aggressive and negative response. Ada advocates must speak
very softly, I've found.
> What i would propose
>
> Persuade the Ada Information House to become visible in facebook
> as it is done my NASA, ESA etc. by presenting the events
> they are showing on there first page in a time line.
>
> All the enthusiasts in this community should gather together to
> maintain a fan page in facebook to create better visibility of there
> activities, means events, software releases ...
channel. I prefer a high-quality, high signal-to-noise forum like c.l.a.
> Please take facebook just as a place holder for any other kind
> of social network where we could achieve some visibility.
be visible. I suspect that the average Facebook user is not it.
> I am not at all sure that this helps but i guess it will do
> no harm to hook into social network and try to get some
> attention there;
>
> Any comments ideas .... or is every thing fine as it is?
programmers who already use several languages, and are therefore not in
love with a single language and blind to its defects. I suspect many of
them read IEEE Computer Society publications. An article on Ada 2012 in
"Computer" could be useful.
--
Niklas Holsti
Tidorum Ltd
niklas holsti tidorum fi
. @ .
Georg Bauhaus
Oct 7, 2012, 6:06:10 PM10/7/12
to
On 07.10.12 22:49, Niklas Holsti wrote:
> Ada advocates must speak
> very softly, I've found.
Could be an idea to let quality speak for itself, if it
> Ada advocates must speak
> very softly, I've found.
can, and not at all emphasize the language, or drop its
name. Just mention the features and their effects as if
they were a matter of course in your daily work. Which
they might well be!
Bill Findlay
Oct 7, 2012, 6:48:36 PM10/7/12
to
On 07/10/2012 23:06, in article
5071fcd3$0$6567$9b4e...@newsspool4.arcor-online.net, "Georg Bauhaus"
There are none so blind as those who will not see.
Over the yaers I've had some very odd responses to my infrequent Ada
advocacy in other newsgroups, which usually amounted to little more than a
positive mention and a rebuttal of the most blatant misconceptions.
One respondent dismissed Rational's longitudinal comparative study
(presented in a scientific paper) as a likely fraud.
Another openly admitted that his company's software (in C) was of poor
quality, but said that was irrelevant, because their customers bought it
anyway. It made a profit, so it met its spec as far as he was concerned.
Another boasted of his ability to write faultless programs without the need
for any pesky automated checking. It was merely a matter of being careful
and working to a professional standard. As proof he provided the URL for an
selection of his exemplary C code. I found errors on the first page.
Sometimes I feel ashamed to have been a part, however minor, of an industry
that is so accepting of wilful ignorance, charlatanism and incompetence.
--
Bill Findlay
with blueyonder.co.uk;
use surname & forename;
5071fcd3$0$6567$9b4e...@newsspool4.arcor-online.net, "Georg Bauhaus"
Over the yaers I've had some very odd responses to my infrequent Ada
advocacy in other newsgroups, which usually amounted to little more than a
positive mention and a rebuttal of the most blatant misconceptions.
One respondent dismissed Rational's longitudinal comparative study
(presented in a scientific paper) as a likely fraud.
Another openly admitted that his company's software (in C) was of poor
quality, but said that was irrelevant, because their customers bought it
anyway. It made a profit, so it met its spec as far as he was concerned.
Another boasted of his ability to write faultless programs without the need
for any pesky automated checking. It was merely a matter of being careful
and working to a professional standard. As proof he provided the URL for an
selection of his exemplary C code. I found errors on the first page.
Sometimes I feel ashamed to have been a part, however minor, of an industry
that is so accepting of wilful ignorance, charlatanism and incompetence.
--
Bill Findlay
with blueyonder.co.uk;
use surname & forename;
Aaron W. Hsu
Oct 7, 2012, 8:25:44 PM10/7/12
to
On Sun, 07 Oct 2012 18:48:36 -0400, Bill Findlay
<yald...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> Sometimes I feel ashamed to have been a part, however minor, of an
> industry
> that is so accepting of wilful ignorance, charlatanism and incompetence.
So, ashamed to be a part of industry at all? :-)
<yald...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> Sometimes I feel ashamed to have been a part, however minor, of an
> industry
> that is so accepting of wilful ignorance, charlatanism and incompetence.
Actually, not being an avid Ada user (I usually use Scheme, APL, or C), I
have heard lots of rumors and hearsay about the various problems with Ada,
such as design-by-committee and whatnot, but when I took a look at the
language itself, I don't really see a lot of hate on. It has its faults,
like any language, but it seems to be quite respectable, and I hardly
think it's a devil child that some make it out to be. Then again, I use
APL, and talk about a language that gets people upset. Even in academic
research where everyone has their favorite pet language I get people
reacting like the world is ending if I mention that I use APL.
When it comes to the less "in vogue" langauges, it seems that a lot of
people are ready to dismiss them very quickly.
--
Aaron W. Hsu | arc...@sacrideo.us | http://www.sacrideo.us
Programming is just another word for the Lost Art of Thinking.
Message has been deleted
Brian Drummond
Oct 8, 2012, 4:50:08 AM10/8/12
to
On Sun, 07 Oct 2012 23:49:49 +0300, Niklas Holsti wrote:
> On 12-10-07 19:26 , Michael Erdmann wrote:
>> Why this post?
>>
>> Yesterday while checking through comp.lang.ada i stumbled upon the
>> following statement from Patrick:
>>
>> ... There are too many sites that make it seem like Ada is dead...
>>
>> Frankly speaking i have to agree; the Ada community seems to be like an
>> endangered animal; successfully existing unseen in a niche.
>
> One reason for that is that any "pushy" promotion of Ada tends to
> trigger an aggressive and negative response. Ada advocates must speak
> very softly, I've found.
I agree with this. However a simple informative post or article in
> On 12-10-07 19:26 , Michael Erdmann wrote:
>> Why this post?
>>
>> Yesterday while checking through comp.lang.ada i stumbled upon the
>> following statement from Patrick:
>>
>> ... There are too many sites that make it seem like Ada is dead...
>>
>> Frankly speaking i have to agree; the Ada community seems to be like an
>> endangered animal; successfully existing unseen in a niche.
>
> One reason for that is that any "pushy" promotion of Ada tends to
> trigger an aggressive and negative response. Ada advocates must speak
> very softly, I've found.
another forum is probably acceptable.
For example, the Raspberry Pi forum and/or MagPi magazine would be
communities where Ada is probably unknown; where an alternative language
would be well received, and where education is the main driver behind the
project. Grab'em young!
I haven't done anything with my Pi yet, but some folks here have used Ada
on it.
Perhaps an article about using the Pi to recreate one of the great
British computers ... whose simulator just happens to use Ada... ;-)
> I think we need visibility among professional or advanced amateur
> programmers who already use several languages, and are therefore not in
> love with a single language and blind to its defects. I suspect many of
> them read IEEE Computer Society publications. An article on Ada 2012 in
> "Computer" could be useful.
- Brian
Marc C
Oct 8, 2012, 8:40:59 AM10/8/12
to
On Sunday, October 7, 2012 11:26:49 AM UTC-5, Michael Erdmann wrote:
> I am not at all sure that this helps but i guess it will do
> no harm to hook into social network and try to get some
> attention there;
The Ada sub-reddit (http://www.reddit.com/r/ada) has been carrying on for over 4 years now, with hundreds of submitted links and postings, and slowly closing in on 500 subscribers. (And we could always use more!)
> I am not at all sure that this helps but i guess it will do
> no harm to hook into social network and try to get some
> attention there;
It's low volume, but pretty high signal.
The LinkedIn Ada group (http://www.linkedin.com/groups?home=&gid=114211) is also reasonably active with wide-ranging conversations. You simply have to be a LinkedIn member (basic membership is free) to participate.
I'm not saying everything is hunky dory, we could always use more Ada advocacy (and taking down of moribund sites).
Ada does, though, have presence amongst various social networks, though almost invariably it's an individual (or a small group of individuals) efforts to maintain that presence.
StackOverflow (http://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/ada) too!
Marc A. Criley
Ada sub-reddit moderator
Michael Erdmann
Oct 8, 2012, 3:25:14 PM10/8/12
to
On 10/08/2012 02:40 PM, Marc C wrote:
> On Sunday, October 7, 2012 11:26:49 AM UTC-5, Michael Erdmann wrote:
>
>> I am not at all sure that this helps but i guess it will do
>> no harm to hook into social network and try to get some
>> attention there;
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Ada-The-Language-for-A-Complex-World/528580827156159?ref=ts&fref=ts
May be i have made my self not clear; compl.lang.ada is a good
place for communication as other sites as http://www.reddit.com/r/ada
except for the face that these places are not embedded into any
social network which connects them.
Using social networks has different aspects ranging from direct
communication to viral marketing.
For direct communication usenet groups are technically outdated. Tooks
me half a day last week to find a provider with an news server
where i could hook in,
Web sites and blogs tend to be quite unknown unless you can tie
these sites together in a social network, A simple thing like the
like button cat create for somebody a trail to somebody else which
knows somebody who does what i am looking for. (This is viral marketing).
I guess for time beeing i am willing to maintain this page; but
on long terms this will have no real impact if nobody is supporting
the idea :-/
/Michael
PS:
I never heard about www.reddit.com and never about the
blog of Zhu Qun-Yin since i am not constantly following
compl.lang.ada.
Niklas Holsti
Oct 8, 2012, 4:39:53 PM10/8/12
to
On 12-10-08 22:25 , Michael Erdmann wrote:
> For direct communication usenet groups are technically outdated.
I disagree. For technical discussions the threading, commenting, quoting
> For direct communication usenet groups are technically outdated.
are better than on any web-based forum I have seen. And no dam*ed
"registering" needed. All that is "missing" are the coloured
blinkenlights -- what a good thing. But I admit that tastes may differ.
> Tooks me half a day last week to find a provider with an news server
> where i could hook in
use news.individual.net, a cheap one. There are free ones too, I believe.
J-P. Rosen
Oct 8, 2012, 5:29:16 PM10/8/12
to
Le 08/10/2012 22:39, Niklas Holsti a �crit :
for years. Free and works like a charm.
--
J-P. Rosen
Adalog
2 rue du Docteur Lombard, 92441 Issy-les-Moulineaux CEDEX
Tel: +33 1 45 29 21 52, Fax: +33 1 45 29 25 00
http://www.adalog.fr
> There are independent Usenet services that you can use from any ISP. I
> use news.individual.net, a cheap one. There are free ones too, I believe.
I have been using Eternal September (http://www.eternal-september.org/)
> use news.individual.net, a cheap one. There are free ones too, I believe.
for years. Free and works like a charm.
--
J-P. Rosen
Adalog
2 rue du Docteur Lombard, 92441 Issy-les-Moulineaux CEDEX
Tel: +33 1 45 29 21 52, Fax: +33 1 45 29 25 00
http://www.adalog.fr
Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
Oct 9, 2012, 11:28:06 PM10/9/12
to
Le Mon, 08 Oct 2012 22:39:53 +0200, Niklas Holsti
<niklas...@tidorum.invalid> a écrit:
nntp.aioe.org
See http://www.aioe.org/
You have a post limit per days, which is OK for low to medium use.
Note you may also access numerous mailing list via the new.gmane.org
Usenet interface
See http://gmane.org/
There's a sleeping comp.lang.ada.france there, which is not to be confused
with fr.comp.lang.ada, more alive than the former.
--
“Syntactic sugar causes cancer of the semi-colons.” [1]
“Structured Programming supports the law of the excluded muddle.” [1]
[1]: Epigrams on Programming — Alan J. — P. Yale University
<niklas...@tidorum.invalid> a écrit:
> There are independent Usenet services that you can use from any ISP. I
> use news.individual.net, a cheap one. There are free ones too, I believe.
I just use a free one (as free as in beer), as I'm a low consumer,
> use news.individual.net, a cheap one. There are free ones too, I believe.
nntp.aioe.org
See http://www.aioe.org/
You have a post limit per days, which is OK for low to medium use.
Note you may also access numerous mailing list via the new.gmane.org
Usenet interface
See http://gmane.org/
There's a sleeping comp.lang.ada.france there, which is not to be confused
with fr.comp.lang.ada, more alive than the former.
--
“Syntactic sugar causes cancer of the semi-colons.” [1]
“Structured Programming supports the law of the excluded muddle.” [1]
[1]: Epigrams on Programming — Alan J. — P. Yale University
Michael Erdmann
Oct 10, 2012, 12:42:41 AM10/10/12
to
On 10/08/2012 10:39 PM, Niklas Holsti wrote:
> On 12-10-08 22:25 , Michael Erdmann wrote:
>
>> For direct communication usenet groups are technically outdated.
>
> I disagree. For technical discussions the threading, commenting, quoting
> are better than on any web-based forum I have seen. And no dam*ed
> "registering" needed. All that is "missing" are the coloured
> blinkenlights -- what a good thing. But I admit that tastes may differ.
True ,,
> On 12-10-08 22:25 , Michael Erdmann wrote:
>
>> For direct communication usenet groups are technically outdated.
>
> I disagree. For technical discussions the threading, commenting, quoting
> are better than on any web-based forum I have seen. And no dam*ed
> "registering" needed. All that is "missing" are the coloured
> blinkenlights -- what a good thing. But I admit that tastes may differ.
>
>> Tooks me half a day last week to find a provider with an news server
>> where i could hook in
>
> There are independent Usenet services that you can use from any ISP. I
> use news.individual.net, a cheap one. There are free ones too, I believe.
>
days of usenet newsgroups might be over in a forseeable future.
/Michael
Michael Erdmann
Oct 10, 2012, 12:43:21 AM10/10/12
to
On 10/08/2012 11:29 PM, J-P. Rosen wrote:
> Le 08/10/2012 22:39, Niklas Holsti a �crit :
>> There are independent Usenet services that you can use from any ISP. I
>> use news.individual.net, a cheap one. There are free ones too, I believe.
> I have been using Eternal September (http://www.eternal-september.org/)
> for years. Free and works like a charm.
>
Thanks i will give it try :-)
> Le 08/10/2012 22:39, Niklas Holsti a �crit :
>> There are independent Usenet services that you can use from any ISP. I
>> use news.individual.net, a cheap one. There are free ones too, I believe.
> I have been using Eternal September (http://www.eternal-september.org/)
> for years. Free and works like a charm.
>
Michael Erdmann
Oct 10, 2012, 12:44:22 AM10/10/12
to
On 10/10/2012 05:28 AM, Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57) wrote:
> Le Mon, 08 Oct 2012 22:39:53 +0200, Niklas Holsti
> <niklas...@tidorum.invalid> a écrit:
>> There are independent Usenet services that you can use from any ISP. I
>> use news.individual.net, a cheap one. There are free ones too, I believe.
>
> I just use a free one (as free as in beer), as I'm a low consumer,
> nntp.aioe.org
> See http://www.aioe.org/
> You have a post limit per days, which is OK for low to medium use.
>
> Note you may also access numerous mailing list via the new.gmane.org
> Usenet interface
> See http://gmane.org/
> There's a sleeping comp.lang.ada.france there, which is not to be
> confused with fr.comp.lang.ada, more alive than the former.
Thanks :-)
> Le Mon, 08 Oct 2012 22:39:53 +0200, Niklas Holsti
> <niklas...@tidorum.invalid> a écrit:
>> There are independent Usenet services that you can use from any ISP. I
>> use news.individual.net, a cheap one. There are free ones too, I believe.
>
> I just use a free one (as free as in beer), as I'm a low consumer,
> nntp.aioe.org
> See http://www.aioe.org/
> You have a post limit per days, which is OK for low to medium use.
>
> Note you may also access numerous mailing list via the new.gmane.org
> Usenet interface
> See http://gmane.org/
> There's a sleeping comp.lang.ada.france there, which is not to be
> confused with fr.comp.lang.ada, more alive than the former.
>
Georg Bauhaus
Oct 10, 2012, 5:39:35 AM10/10/12
to
On 10.10.12 06:42, Michael Erdmann wrote:
> I am afraid the
> days of usenet newsgroups might be over in a forseeable future
Some people say that about Facebook, and stock prices are down
> I am afraid the
> days of usenet newsgroups might be over in a forseeable future
by half.
Still, fans may want to say they are friends with a friendly
Ada at Facebook; the timeline might be a framework for
attaching events from Ada's history.
Lucretia
Oct 12, 2012, 11:12:03 PM10/12/12
to
On Monday, 8 October 2012 09:50:08 UTC+1, Brian Drummond wrote:
> For example, the Raspberry Pi forum and/or MagPi magazine would be
> communities where Ada is probably unknown; where an alternative language
> would be well received, and where education is the main driver behind the
> project. Grab'em young!
I actually wrote the first Ada article for MagPi, unfortunately it was too long so they cut it up, I need to add 2 more pages for next month :D
> For example, the Raspberry Pi forum and/or MagPi magazine would be
> communities where Ada is probably unknown; where an alternative language
> would be well received, and where education is the main driver behind the
> project. Grab'em young!
> Perhaps an article about using the Pi to recreate one of the great
> British computers ... whose simulator just happens to use Ada... ;-)
Luke.
Brian Drummond
Oct 13, 2012, 5:37:49 AM10/13/12
to
On Fri, 12 Oct 2012 20:12:03 -0700, Lucretia wrote:
> On Monday, 8 October 2012 09:50:08 UTC+1, Brian Drummond wrote:
>
>> For example, the Raspberry Pi forum and/or MagPi magazine would be
>> communities where Ada is probably unknown; where an alternative
>> language would be well received, and where education is the main driver
>> behind the project. Grab'em young!
>
> I actually wrote the first Ada article for MagPi, unfortunately it was
> too long so they cut it up, I need to add 2 more pages for next month :D
Excellent news, and a 2-parter probably feels more serious than a single
> On Monday, 8 October 2012 09:50:08 UTC+1, Brian Drummond wrote:
>
>> For example, the Raspberry Pi forum and/or MagPi magazine would be
>> communities where Ada is probably unknown; where an alternative
>> language would be well received, and where education is the main driver
>> behind the project. Grab'em young!
>
> I actually wrote the first Ada article for MagPi, unfortunately it was
> too long so they cut it up, I need to add 2 more pages for next month :D
issue.
>> Perhaps an article about using the Pi to recreate one of the great
>> British computers ... whose simulator just happens to use Ada... ;-)
>
> Not a bad idea, if only I had a clue about simulators :D
- Brian
Bill Findlay
Oct 13, 2012, 12:03:02 PM10/13/12
to
On 13/10/2012 10:37, in article k5bcpd$l4u$1...@dont-email.me, "Brian Drummond"
8-)
Afraid not, though I might think about doing just that.
Afraid not, though I might think about doing just that.
Michael Erdmann
Oct 14, 2012, 6:15:00 AM10/14/12
to
On Wed, 10 Oct 2012 11:39:35 +0200, Georg Bauhaus
<rm.dash...@futureapps.de> wrote:
> Ada at Facebook; the timeline might be a framework for
I have created on just look for ada at Facebook. I am curious whether
<rm.dash...@futureapps.de> wrote:
> Ada at Facebook; the timeline might be a framework for
You can find it :-)
Michael Erdmann
Oct 14, 2012, 10:24:31 AM10/14/12
to
Bill Findlay
Oct 14, 2012, 1:24:23 PM10/14/12
to
On 14/10/2012 15:24, in article ae008v...@mid.uni-berlin.de, "Michael
I you means "using the Pi to recreate one of the great British computers ...
whose simulator just happens to use Ada" then:
<http://www.findlayw.plus.com/KDF9/#Emulator>
whose simulator just happens to use Ada" then:
<http://www.findlayw.plus.com/KDF9/#Emulator>
mon...@gmail.com
Oct 14, 2012, 10:08:57 PM10/14/12
to
I am not sure if Facebook is the way to go. Probably worth a shot, but I think that at least in part. Some people still remember having to deal with Ada as an early language through their university track. That alone probably leaves something of a bad taste.
The problem is as I see it, most of the resources that you find with Ada seem to be outdated. Which may not be the case, just may not need any updates. So what would be the point of having a Facebook page directing people to a community which perhaps requires a little more than most to dig in to gain an understanding.
The recipe is just about the same for anything else that you're selling. So you need an easy barrier to entry, Ada doesnt have that, so it better be worth it. IMO it is. Need some killer software available that make people say 'oh I didn't know Ada could do THAT!'
We need some voices in the community that are larger than life.
Am I alone in thinking that the ada2012.com site which looks pretty smoking is using apache as the front end web server?
The problem is as I see it, most of the resources that you find with Ada seem to be outdated. Which may not be the case, just may not need any updates. So what would be the point of having a Facebook page directing people to a community which perhaps requires a little more than most to dig in to gain an understanding.
The recipe is just about the same for anything else that you're selling. So you need an easy barrier to entry, Ada doesnt have that, so it better be worth it. IMO it is. Need some killer software available that make people say 'oh I didn't know Ada could do THAT!'
We need some voices in the community that are larger than life.
Am I alone in thinking that the ada2012.com site which looks pretty smoking is using apache as the front end web server?
Message has been deleted
Bill Findlay
Oct 14, 2012, 11:04:03 PM10/14/12
to
On 15/10/2012 03:08, in article
1f1fe619-0478-4a75...@googlegroups.com, "mon...@gmail.com"
> that at least in part. Some people still remember having to deal with Ada as
> an early language through their university track. That alone probably leaves
> something of a bad taste.
Why? The beginners' Ada course I ran was extremely successful.
I have reason to believe others had the same experience.
1f1fe619-0478-4a75...@googlegroups.com, "mon...@gmail.com"
<mon...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I am not sure if Facebook is the way to go. Probably worth a shot, but I think
I will certainly never return to it, Ada page or no Ada page.
> I am not sure if Facebook is the way to go. Probably worth a shot, but I think
> that at least in part. Some people still remember having to deal with Ada as
> an early language through their university track. That alone probably leaves
> something of a bad taste.
I have reason to believe others had the same experience.
Michael Erdmann
Oct 15, 2012, 12:57:07 AM10/15/12
to
On 10/15/2012 04:08 AM, mon...@gmail.com wrote:
> The problem is as I see it, most of the resources that you find with Ada seem to be outdated. Which may not be the case,
just may not need any updates. So what would be the point of having a
Facebook page directing people to a community
which perhaps requires a little more than most to dig in to gain an
understanding.
>
Using a social media platform will not tackle the problem of a non
> The problem is as I see it, most of the resources that you find with Ada seem to be outdated. Which may not be the case,
just may not need any updates. So what would be the point of having a
Facebook page directing people to a community
which perhaps requires a little more than most to dig in to gain an
understanding.
>
functioning ecosystem .. but it could create additional interests of
people which could become contributors ...
> The recipe is just about the same for anything else that you're selling. So you need an easy barrier to entry, Ada doesnt have that, so it better be worth it. IMO it is. Need some killer software available that make people say 'oh I didn't know Ada could do THAT!'
>
using just websites; newsgroups etc ... the capability of
viral marketing. I think this mechanism (the like button etc)
makes is the only technical justification for going to facebook,
Google+ of Linked in.
> We need some voices in the community that are larger than life.
>
> Am I alone in thinking that the ada2012.com site which looks pretty smoking is using apache as the front end web server?
>
cooperative web site?
/Michael
Michael Erdmann
Oct 15, 2012, 1:12:02 AM10/15/12
to
On 10/15/2012 05:04 AM, Bill Findlay wrote:
> On 15/10/2012 03:08, in article
> 1f1fe619-0478-4a75...@googlegroups.com, "mon...@gmail.com"
> <mon...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I am not sure if Facebook is the way to go. Probably worth a shot, but I think
>
> I will certainly never return to it, Ada page or no Ada page.
Just curious; why?
> On 15/10/2012 03:08, in article
> 1f1fe619-0478-4a75...@googlegroups.com, "mon...@gmail.com"
> <mon...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I am not sure if Facebook is the way to go. Probably worth a shot, but I think
>
> I will certainly never return to it, Ada page or no Ada page.
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Ada-The-Language-for-A-Complex-World/528580827156159?ref=ts&fref=ts
/Michael
Bill Findlay
Oct 15, 2012, 3:32:24 AM10/15/12
to
On 15/10/2012 06:12, in article ae1k92...@mid.uni-berlin.de, "Michael
and cavalier about personal privacy.
Erdmann" <boav...@snafu.de> wrote:
> On 10/15/2012 05:04 AM, Bill Findlay wrote:
>> On 15/10/2012 03:08, in article
>> 1f1fe619-0478-4a75...@googlegroups.com, "mon...@gmail.com"
>> <mon...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I am not sure if Facebook is the way to go. Probably worth a shot, but I
>>> think
>>
>> I will certainly never return to it, Ada page or no Ada page.
>
> Just curious; why?
I thoroughly dislike its business model: parasitic on personal relationships
> On 10/15/2012 05:04 AM, Bill Findlay wrote:
>> On 15/10/2012 03:08, in article
>> 1f1fe619-0478-4a75...@googlegroups.com, "mon...@gmail.com"
>> <mon...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I am not sure if Facebook is the way to go. Probably worth a shot, but I
>>> think
>>
>> I will certainly never return to it, Ada page or no Ada page.
>
> Just curious; why?
and cavalier about personal privacy.
Georg Bauhaus
Oct 15, 2012, 9:11:57 AM10/15/12
to
On 15.10.12 06:57, Michael Erdmann wrote:
> There is a dimension of social networks which existing in communities
> using just websites; newsgroups etc ... the capability of
> viral marketing. I think this mechanism (the like button etc)
> makes is the only technical justification for going to facebook,
> Google+ of Linked in.
Facebook's timeline, taken out of its economic context, is similar
> There is a dimension of social networks which existing in communities
> using just websites; newsgroups etc ... the capability of
> viral marketing. I think this mechanism (the like button etc)
> makes is the only technical justification for going to facebook,
> Google+ of Linked in.
to the ever popular History-of-... posters. The posters that show
major events of the history of operating systems or of programming
languages.
Do we have this history of Ada?
What major Ada events are there, starting in 1976?
Some of the Ada events are likely controversial, so Ada's history is
full of premium quality journalistic material. Bombers vs subway trains
vs toys; Tony Hoare's The Emperor's Old Clothes, and Tony Hoare's
latest edition of Communicating Sequential Processes, ...
Material that if properly selected inevitably causes heated discussions,
of facts vs propaganda. While good input for text processing
companies like Google, Facebook, or the press, it is still a framework
that can generate visibility, even if not just for Ada.
> What is the issue about this site; looks to my like any other
> cooperative web site?
"The TC39 committee, after discussions with the ERG and with members
of the Javascript community, has instructed the ERG to complete the
Amendment to Javascript xyZ so that standardization of the new version
can be completed by 2012."
WTF? Committee? Aronyms?
What is so cool about this spit of bureaucracy? Who gives an X for
the procedures of some committee?
The idiom and subject of the first § of ada2012.com might interest
higher ranking managers of a big organization's IT. Good choice if
you are AdaCore.
But this very social group, seemingly the target of ada2012.com,
is likely
(a) not present at facebook.com
(b) not interested in specific aspects of a programming language
relating to the work of ordinary programmers, and attracting
their attention.
Such as speed of a programming language (sic).
mon...@gmail.com
Oct 15, 2012, 10:13:11 AM10/15/12
to
The ada2012.com site was a good opportunity for Ada to eat it's own dogfood. Seems like a good candidate for AWS. If it can't be used for ada2012.com why would anyone consider it at all?
I'm not saying that your Ada instructional wouldn't have been successful, but given the nature of introductory courses, which tend to have an effect of weeding out people who may have chosen the wrong field of study. It would seem as if that would be enough of a reason for the masses who've been exposed to Ada, just not like it, barring the benefits of the language. Now, a good instructor who knows the language could certainly make all of that disappear but that may not always be the case.
I'm not saying that your Ada instructional wouldn't have been successful, but given the nature of introductory courses, which tend to have an effect of weeding out people who may have chosen the wrong field of study. It would seem as if that would be enough of a reason for the masses who've been exposed to Ada, just not like it, barring the benefits of the language. Now, a good instructor who knows the language could certainly make all of that disappear but that may not always be the case.
Bill Findlay
Oct 15, 2012, 10:18:49 AM10/15/12
to
On 15/10/2012 15:13, in article
b40dd3a7-c09d-465f...@googlegroups.com, "mon...@gmail.com"
b40dd3a7-c09d-465f...@googlegroups.com, "mon...@gmail.com"
<mon...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm not saying that your Ada instructional wouldn't have been successful, but
> given the nature of introductory courses, which tend to have an effect of
> weeding out people who may have chosen the wrong field of study. It would
> seem as if that would be enough of a reason for the masses who've been exposed
> to Ada, just not like it, barring the benefits of the language. Now, a good
> instructor who knows the language could certainly make all of that disappear
> but that may not always be the case.
If they have been "weeded out", why would their opinion be of any interest?
> I'm not saying that your Ada instructional wouldn't have been successful, but
> given the nature of introductory courses, which tend to have an effect of
> weeding out people who may have chosen the wrong field of study. It would
> seem as if that would be enough of a reason for the masses who've been exposed
> to Ada, just not like it, barring the benefits of the language. Now, a good
> instructor who knows the language could certainly make all of that disappear
> but that may not always be the case.
Message has been deleted
Simon Wright
Oct 15, 2012, 4:03:57 PM10/15/12
to
mon...@gmail.com writes:
> Am I alone in thinking that the ada2012.com site which looks pretty
> smoking is using apache as the front end web server?
You are right. Not very clever.
> Am I alone in thinking that the ada2012.com site which looks pretty
> smoking is using apache as the front end web server?
mon...@gmail.com
Oct 15, 2012, 11:00:21 PM10/15/12
to
> If they have been "weeded out", why would their opinion be of any interest?
While you do make a point, I believe we're talking about not trying to keep Ada in a vacuum. If as this exercise we just want it to stay in it's little silo then absolutely. But, if we're talking about how to clear up the misconceptions the language has as a whole, I think the people who were 'burned' by it are relevant.
Fact is, Ada is a pretty good tool to have in the old toolbag.
Thomas Løcke
Oct 16, 2012, 4:11:07 AM10/16/12
to
have been implemented using AWS.
With that said, I still think it nice having a modern looking website
associated with Ada 2012. The old lady deserves the attention. :o)
--
Thomas Lųcke | tho...@12boo.net | http://12boo.net
Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
Oct 16, 2012, 6:57:20 AM10/16/12
to
Le Tue, 16 Oct 2012 10:11:07 +0200, Thomas Løcke <tho...@12boo.net> a
écrit:
> On 10/15/2012 10:03 PM, Simon Wright wrote:
>> mon...@gmail.com writes:
>>
>>> Am I alone in thinking that the ada2012.com site which looks pretty
>>> smoking is using apache as the front end web server?
>>
>> You are right. Not very clever.
>>
>
>
> Indeed. The ada2012.com website is a huge missed opportunity. It should
> have been implemented using AWS.
>
> With that said, I still think it nice having a modern looking website
> associated with Ada 2012. The old lady deserves the attention. :o)
>
Which one are you talking about? Either
http://ada2012.com or
http://www.ada2012.com redirects to
http://www.adacore.com/adaanswers/about/ada-2012 for me
Is there a proper and independent ada2012.com I can't access from my
location?
écrit:
> On 10/15/2012 10:03 PM, Simon Wright wrote:
>> mon...@gmail.com writes:
>>
>>> Am I alone in thinking that the ada2012.com site which looks pretty
>>> smoking is using apache as the front end web server?
>>
>> You are right. Not very clever.
>>
>
>
> Indeed. The ada2012.com website is a huge missed opportunity. It should
> have been implemented using AWS.
>
> With that said, I still think it nice having a modern looking website
> associated with Ada 2012. The old lady deserves the attention. :o)
>
http://ada2012.com or
http://www.ada2012.com redirects to
http://www.adacore.com/adaanswers/about/ada-2012 for me
Is there a proper and independent ada2012.com I can't access from my
location?
Thomas Løcke
Oct 16, 2012, 7:09:46 AM10/16/12
to
On 10/16/2012 12:57 PM, Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57) wrote:
>
> Which one are you talking about? Either
> http://ada2012.com or
> http://www.ada2012.com redirects to
> http://www.adacore.com/adaanswers/about/ada-2012 for me
>
> Is there a proper and independent ada2012.com I can't access from my
> location?
Sigh.. No it's just me flailing blindly around. I meant the ada2012.org
>
> Which one are you talking about? Either
> http://ada2012.com or
> http://www.ada2012.com redirects to
> http://www.adacore.com/adaanswers/about/ada-2012 for me
>
> Is there a proper and independent ada2012.com I can't access from my
> location?
website.
:o)
--
Thomas Løcke | tho...@12boo.net | http://12boo.net
Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
Oct 16, 2012, 9:55:18 AM10/16/12
to
Le Tue, 16 Oct 2012 13:09:46 +0200, Thomas Løcke <tho...@12boo.net> a
écrit:
> On 10/16/2012 12:57 PM, Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57) wrote:
>>
>> Which one are you talking about? Either
>> http://ada2012.com or
>> http://www.ada2012.com redirects to
>> http://www.adacore.com/adaanswers/about/ada-2012 for me
>>
>> Is there a proper and independent ada2012.com I can't access from my
>> location?
>
>
> Sigh.. No it's just me flailing blindly around. I meant the ada2012.org
> website.
>
> :o)
OK, I see it now. The issue I also see, is not that much with AWS (*) or
not, but rather with the logo which lacks a real identity. If they wanted
to express a kind of hearth or planet horizon (trying to guess), then may
be a tiny star somewhere would help. Anyway, that may be a good start to
give Ada a logo, as this is an important part of nowadays branding (I use
a the well known simplified picture of Lovelace's face for my Ada files
icon, but why not the idea from AdaCore).
(*) how do you know what the server is? I tried to trigger an 404 page,
but this tells nothing about the server.
écrit:
> On 10/16/2012 12:57 PM, Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57) wrote:
>>
>> Which one are you talking about? Either
>> http://ada2012.com or
>> http://www.ada2012.com redirects to
>> http://www.adacore.com/adaanswers/about/ada-2012 for me
>>
>> Is there a proper and independent ada2012.com I can't access from my
>> location?
>
>
> Sigh.. No it's just me flailing blindly around. I meant the ada2012.org
> website.
>
> :o)
not, but rather with the logo which lacks a real identity. If they wanted
to express a kind of hearth or planet horizon (trying to guess), then may
be a tiny star somewhere would help. Anyway, that may be a good start to
give Ada a logo, as this is an important part of nowadays branding (I use
a the well known simplified picture of Lovelace's face for my Ada files
icon, but why not the idea from AdaCore).
(*) how do you know what the server is? I tried to trigger an 404 page,
but this tells nothing about the server.
Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
Oct 16, 2012, 9:58:29 AM10/16/12
to
Le Tue, 16 Oct 2012 13:09:46 +0200, Thomas Løcke <tho...@12boo.net> a
écrit:
I forget this: ada2012.com should redirect to ada2012.org instead. That's
confusing to redirect it to AdaCore's main site, and does help to make
people know there is an ada2012.org
écrit:
I forget this: ada2012.com should redirect to ada2012.org instead. That's
confusing to redirect it to AdaCore's main site, and does help to make
people know there is an ada2012.org
mon...@gmail.com
Oct 16, 2012, 10:08:27 AM10/16/12
to
Yes I think branding is important, probably more so than what platform you're using. I would take that as the Ada 2012 logo just as it is, not necessarily the logo for the Ada, just the 2012 subset.
Dunno, maybe an updated rendition of lady Ada is just what is called for, something that modernizes but keeps it old school.
It's been discussed before but it would certainly be nice to have a repo, maybe something similar to CPAN or PyPi or Hackage. How about calling it Ada's Slip or something like that, could think of a backronym later. Good presence on github couldn't hurt either.
Thomas Løcke
Oct 16, 2012, 10:36:37 AM10/16/12
to
On 10/16/2012 03:55 PM, Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57) wrote:
> (*) how do you know what the server is? I tried to trigger an 404 page,
> but this tells nothing about the server.
Check the response headers:
> (*) how do you know what the server is? I tried to trigger an 404 page,
> but this tells nothing about the server.
Server: Apache/2.2.21 (FreeBSD) mod_ssl/2.2.21 OpenSSL/0.9.8q DAV/2
PHP/5.3.8 with Suhosin-Patch
So sadly not AWS. :o)
Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
Oct 16, 2012, 11:12:55 AM10/16/12
to
Le Tue, 16 Oct 2012 16:36:37 +0200, Thomas Løcke <tho...@12boo.net> a
écrit:
>
> PHP/5.3.8 with Suhosin-Patch
(oops)
écrit:
>
> So sadly not AWS. :o)
At least it's running an up‑to‑date patched PHP:
> PHP/5.3.8 with Suhosin-Patch
(oops)
Bill Findlay
Oct 16, 2012, 2:42:47 PM10/16/12
to
On 16/10/2012 04:00, in article
f9291743-ed7d-46cd...@googlegroups.com, "mon...@gmail.com"
(b) I take "weeded out" to mean removed from concern or influence, so I
don't see why might be relevant
f9291743-ed7d-46cd...@googlegroups.com, "mon...@gmail.com"
<mon...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> If they have been "weeded out", why would their opinion be of any interest?
>
> While you do make a point, I believe we're talking about not trying to keep
> Ada in a vacuum. If as this exercise we just want it to stay in it's little
> silo then absolutely. But, if we're talking about how to clear up the
> misconceptions the language has as a whole, I think the people who were
> 'burned' by it are relevant.
(a) I cannnot see why anyone should have been "burned" by Ada.
>> If they have been "weeded out", why would their opinion be of any interest?
>
> While you do make a point, I believe we're talking about not trying to keep
> Ada in a vacuum. If as this exercise we just want it to stay in it's little
> silo then absolutely. But, if we're talking about how to clear up the
> misconceptions the language has as a whole, I think the people who were
> 'burned' by it are relevant.
(b) I take "weeded out" to mean removed from concern or influence, so I
don't see why might be relevant
Michael Erdmann
Oct 16, 2012, 3:34:47 PM10/16/12
to
On 10/15/2012 03:11 PM, Georg Bauhaus wrote:
>> >There is a dimension of social networks which existing in communities
>> >using just websites; newsgroups etc ... the capability of
>> >viral marketing. I think this mechanism (the like button etc)
>> >makes is the only technical justification for going to facebook,
>> >Google+ of Linked in.
> Facebook's timeline, taken out of its economic context, is similar
> to the ever popular History-of-... posters. The posters that show
> major events of the history of operating systems or of programming
> languages.
>
> Do we have this history of Ada?
> What major Ada events are there, starting in 1976?
>
> Some of the Ada events are likely controversial, so Ada's history is
> full of premium quality journalistic material. Bombers vs subway trains
> vs toys; Tony Hoare's The Emperor's Old Clothes, and Tony Hoare's
> latest edition of Communicating Sequential Processes, ...
> Material that if properly selected inevitably causes heated discussions,
> of facts vs propaganda. While good input for text processing
> companies like Google, Facebook, or the press, it is still a framework
> that can generate visibility, even if not just for Ada.
>
Actually i am not a historian; but what i can derive from
>> >There is a dimension of social networks which existing in communities
>> >using just websites; newsgroups etc ... the capability of
>> >viral marketing. I think this mechanism (the like button etc)
>> >makes is the only technical justification for going to facebook,
>> >Google+ of Linked in.
> Facebook's timeline, taken out of its economic context, is similar
> to the ever popular History-of-... posters. The posters that show
> major events of the history of operating systems or of programming
> languages.
>
> Do we have this history of Ada?
> What major Ada events are there, starting in 1976?
>
> Some of the Ada events are likely controversial, so Ada's history is
> full of premium quality journalistic material. Bombers vs subway trains
> vs toys; Tony Hoare's The Emperor's Old Clothes, and Tony Hoare's
> latest edition of Communicating Sequential Processes, ...
> Material that if properly selected inevitably causes heated discussions,
> of facts vs propaganda. While good input for text processing
> companies like Google, Facebook, or the press, it is still a framework
> that can generate visibility, even if not just for Ada.
>
http://de.wikipedia.org/ is:
May 1979 - DoD decides to select Green later called Ada as Solution
of the software crisis.
10 Dec. 1980 at the birthday of Lady Ada Lovelace MIL-STD 1815 accepted
1983 Ada 83 becomes an ISO (ISO-8652:1987) and ANSI Standard
((ANSI/MIL-STD 1815)
1995 Ada 95 becomes an ISO/ANSI Standard - ISO/ANSI-Norm ISO-8652:1995
... I have a GAP from here till today ....
can somebody help me to fill this up??
Message has been deleted
J-P. Rosen
Oct 16, 2012, 4:43:21 PM10/16/12
to
Le 16/10/2012 21:34, Michael Erdmann a écrit :
> 1983 Ada 83 becomes an ISO (ISO-8652:1987) and ANSI Standard
> ((ANSI/MIL-STD 1815)
ANSI only. It became an ISO standard only in 1987 (as indicated by the
> 1983 Ada 83 becomes an ISO (ISO-8652:1987) and ANSI Standard
> ((ANSI/MIL-STD 1815)
reference), after the French version was issued.
At that time, ISO regulation required standards to be published in two
out of the three official ISO language, which are English, French, and
Russian. Given that the English standard had been written by French
people for the US DoD, they didn't select Russian...
--
J-P. Rosen
Adalog
2 rue du Docteur Lombard, 92441 Issy-les-Moulineaux CEDEX
Tel: +33 1 45 29 21 52, Fax: +33 1 45 29 25 00
http://www.adalog.fr
Georg Bauhaus
Oct 16, 2012, 7:37:26 PM10/16/12
to
On 16.10.12 21:54, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> Probably could use critical dates in the existence of the Ada Joint
> Program Office, the short-lived Ada mandate, etc.
>
Brief overview by Ryan Stansifer at:
http://cs.fit.edu/~ryan/ada/ada-hist.html
Account of history:
http://archive.adaic.com/pol-hist/history/holwg-93/holwg-93.htm
And not to be missed:
Henry G Baker's diatribe from 1997,
"I Have a Feeling We're Not in Emerald City Anymore."
(Read "The Tar Pit" for some contrast.)
Ariane V
> Probably could use critical dates in the existence of the Ada Joint
> Program Office, the short-lived Ada mandate, etc.
>
Brief overview by Ryan Stansifer at:
http://cs.fit.edu/~ryan/ada/ada-hist.html
Account of history:
http://archive.adaic.com/pol-hist/history/holwg-93/holwg-93.htm
And not to be missed:
Henry G Baker's diatribe from 1997,
"I Have a Feeling We're Not in Emerald City Anymore."
(Read "The Tar Pit" for some contrast.)
Ariane V
Jano
Oct 17, 2012, 4:32:44 AM10/17/12
to
Bill Findlay wrote:
> On 07/10/2012 23:06, in article
> 5071fcd3$0$6567$9b4e...@newsspool4.arcor-online.net, "Georg Bauhaus"
> <rm.dash...@futureapps.de> wrote:
>
>> On 07.10.12 22:49, Niklas Holsti wrote:
>>> Ada advocates must speak very softly, I've found.
>>
>> Could be an idea to let quality speak for itself, if it
>> can, and not at all emphasize the language, or drop its
>> name. Just mention the features and their effects as if
>> they were a matter of course in your daily work. Which
>> they might well be!
>
> There are none so blind as those who will not see.
>
> Over the yaers I've had some very odd responses to my infrequent Ada
> advocacy in other newsgroups, which usually amounted to little more than a
> positive mention and a rebuttal of the most blatant misconceptions.
>
> One respondent dismissed Rational's longitudinal comparative study
> (presented in a scientific paper) as a likely fraud.
>
> Another openly admitted that his company's software (in C) was of poor
> quality, but said that was irrelevant, because their customers bought it
> anyway. It made a profit, so it met its spec as far as he was concerned.
>
> Another boasted of his ability to write faultless programs without the
> need
> for any pesky automated checking. It was merely a matter of being careful
> and working to a professional standard. As proof he provided the URL for
> an
> selection of his exemplary C code. I found errors on the first page.
>
> Sometimes I feel ashamed to have been a part, however minor, of an
> industry that is so accepting of wilful ignorance, charlatanism and
> incompetence.
I'm the walking joke in my lab because of my (nowadays slapstick) advocacy
of Ada. The situation is curious because in my college Ada is the language
in Programming 1.01, and some later subjects like IA, Embedded and Real Time
Programming use it too. However, there's no one besides me (that I know)
that uses it at the PhD/Postdoc level.
Whenever the topic of languages arises (and it does regularly, since albeit
they mostly use C++, they're also in love/hate with it) they look at me with
an anticipating amused look, knowing that I'm about to climb walls in
desperation about locks and multithreading[*] that is still years behind
Ada.
As for the original topic, I follow the Ada questions in stackoverflow;
there are Ada groups in LinkedIn and reddit... so there is some presence in
the mainstream social sites, and I find that as Niklas Holsti said,
advocating by giving example instead of words works best. These groups seem
to grow (at a very slow pace).
Alex.
[*] Just last week it started with Java and synchronized methods. Sometimes
I'm afraid that I rant without knowing the latest features of these
languages that might have fixed something.
> On 07/10/2012 23:06, in article
> 5071fcd3$0$6567$9b4e...@newsspool4.arcor-online.net, "Georg Bauhaus"
> <rm.dash...@futureapps.de> wrote:
>
>> On 07.10.12 22:49, Niklas Holsti wrote:
>>> Ada advocates must speak very softly, I've found.
>>
>> Could be an idea to let quality speak for itself, if it
>> can, and not at all emphasize the language, or drop its
>> name. Just mention the features and their effects as if
>> they were a matter of course in your daily work. Which
>> they might well be!
>
> There are none so blind as those who will not see.
>
> Over the yaers I've had some very odd responses to my infrequent Ada
> advocacy in other newsgroups, which usually amounted to little more than a
> positive mention and a rebuttal of the most blatant misconceptions.
>
> One respondent dismissed Rational's longitudinal comparative study
> (presented in a scientific paper) as a likely fraud.
>
> Another openly admitted that his company's software (in C) was of poor
> quality, but said that was irrelevant, because their customers bought it
> anyway. It made a profit, so it met its spec as far as he was concerned.
>
> Another boasted of his ability to write faultless programs without the
> need
> for any pesky automated checking. It was merely a matter of being careful
> and working to a professional standard. As proof he provided the URL for
> an
> selection of his exemplary C code. I found errors on the first page.
>
> Sometimes I feel ashamed to have been a part, however minor, of an
> industry that is so accepting of wilful ignorance, charlatanism and
> incompetence.
I'm the walking joke in my lab because of my (nowadays slapstick) advocacy
of Ada. The situation is curious because in my college Ada is the language
in Programming 1.01, and some later subjects like IA, Embedded and Real Time
Programming use it too. However, there's no one besides me (that I know)
that uses it at the PhD/Postdoc level.
Whenever the topic of languages arises (and it does regularly, since albeit
they mostly use C++, they're also in love/hate with it) they look at me with
an anticipating amused look, knowing that I'm about to climb walls in
desperation about locks and multithreading[*] that is still years behind
Ada.
As for the original topic, I follow the Ada questions in stackoverflow;
there are Ada groups in LinkedIn and reddit... so there is some presence in
the mainstream social sites, and I find that as Niklas Holsti said,
advocating by giving example instead of words works best. These groups seem
to grow (at a very slow pace).
Alex.
[*] Just last week it started with Java and synchronized methods. Sometimes
I'm afraid that I rant without knowing the latest features of these
languages that might have fixed something.
mon...@gmail.com
Oct 17, 2012, 10:34:59 AM10/17/12
to
> (a) I cannnot see why anyone should have been "burned" by Ada.
>
>
>
> (b) I take "weeded out" to mean removed from concern or influence, so I
>
> don't see why might be relevant
I will concede the issue to you Bill, I respect your position, besides we're on the same side talking about the same issue. Logically, people will think what they will think, that thought process is largely dependent on the influences around them. You have had good experiences with the language and a successful run at Ada at the instructional level. I absolutely cannot say the same, I myself am just a hobby hacker with a love for languages a little different than mainstream. Heck I myself would love to have an interface bridge between Haskell and Ada.
>
>
>
> (b) I take "weeded out" to mean removed from concern or influence, so I
>
> don't see why might be relevant
Michael Erdmann
Oct 17, 2012, 2:31:45 PM10/17/12
to
On 10/16/2012 10:43 PM, J-P. Rosen wrote:
> Le 16/10/2012 21:34, Michael Erdmann a écrit :
>> 1983 Ada 83 becomes an ISO (ISO-8652:1987) and ANSI Standard
>> ((ANSI/MIL-STD 1815)
> ANSI only. It became an ISO standard only in 1987 (as indicated by the
> reference), after the French version was issued.
>
> At that time, ISO regulation required standards to be published in two
> out of the three official ISO language, which are English, French, and
> Russian. Given that the English standard had been written by French
> people for the US DoD, they didn't select Russian...
>
Maybe the KGB would have been faster in translating :-)
> Le 16/10/2012 21:34, Michael Erdmann a écrit :
>> 1983 Ada 83 becomes an ISO (ISO-8652:1987) and ANSI Standard
>> ((ANSI/MIL-STD 1815)
> ANSI only. It became an ISO standard only in 1987 (as indicated by the
> reference), after the French version was issued.
>
> At that time, ISO regulation required standards to be published in two
> out of the three official ISO language, which are English, French, and
> Russian. Given that the English standard had been written by French
> people for the US DoD, they didn't select Russian...
>
Thanx; Michael
Michael Erdmann
Oct 17, 2012, 2:32:55 PM10/17/12
to
On 10/17/2012 01:37 AM, Georg Bauhaus wrote:
> On 16.10.12 21:54, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
>
>> Probably could use critical dates in the existence of the Ada Joint
>> Program Office, the short-lived Ada mandate, etc.
>>
>
> Brief overview by Ryan Stansifer at:
> http://cs.fit.edu/~ryan/ada/ada-hist.html
>
> Account of history:
> http://archive.adaic.com/pol-hist/history/holwg-93/holwg-93.htm
I cant find to much about the near future. I would like to add
> On 16.10.12 21:54, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
>
>> Probably could use critical dates in the existence of the Ada Joint
>> Program Office, the short-lived Ada mandate, etc.
>>
>
> Brief overview by Ryan Stansifer at:
> http://cs.fit.edu/~ryan/ada/ada-hist.html
>
> Account of history:
> http://archive.adaic.com/pol-hist/history/holwg-93/holwg-93.htm
some important Ada2012 milestones if there are!
Michael
Bill Findlay
Oct 17, 2012, 3:14:40 PM10/17/12
to
On 17/10/2012 15:34, in article
119c7543-b671-477e...@googlegroups.com, "mon...@gmail.com"
<mon...@gmail.com> wrote:
> ... I myself am just a hobby hacker with a love for languages a little
I used to be a cow-orker of the inventors of Haskell, who got up to their
nefarious activitits two offices along from me.
It surprises me that soemone who appreciates Ada also subscribes to the cult
of 'concision', which is so antithetical to the view of programming as a
human activity. 8-)
119c7543-b671-477e...@googlegroups.com, "mon...@gmail.com"
<mon...@gmail.com> wrote:
> ... I myself am just a hobby hacker with a love for languages a little
> different than mainstream. Heck I myself would love to have an interface
> bridge between Haskell and Ada.
Ah, now there we part company.
> bridge between Haskell and Ada.
I used to be a cow-orker of the inventors of Haskell, who got up to their
nefarious activitits two offices along from me.
It surprises me that soemone who appreciates Ada also subscribes to the cult
of 'concision', which is so antithetical to the view of programming as a
human activity. 8-)
Shark8
Oct 17, 2012, 3:30:06 PM10/17/12
to
On Tuesday, October 16, 2012 8:36:37 AM UTC-6, Thomas Løcke wrote:
>
> Check the response headers:
>
> Server: Apache/2.2.21 (FreeBSD) mod_ssl/2.2.21 OpenSSL/0.9.8q DAV/2
> PHP/5.3.8 with Suhosin-Patch
>
>
> So sadly not AWS. :o)
> --
> Thomas Løcke | tho...@12boo.net | http://12boo.net
PHP -- How sad, that they use such a terrible tool for promoting a good tool.
>
> Check the response headers:
>
> Server: Apache/2.2.21 (FreeBSD) mod_ssl/2.2.21 OpenSSL/0.9.8q DAV/2
> PHP/5.3.8 with Suhosin-Patch
>
>
> So sadly not AWS. :o)
> --
> Thomas Løcke | tho...@12boo.net | http://12boo.net
Given the site is particularly promoting safety ("Engineering Reliability") it's akin to this story about a web-hosting company specializing in security which allowed scripts to be uploaded and run from an image-uploader: http://thedailywtf.com/Comments/Healthy-Competition.aspx
Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
Oct 17, 2012, 4:52:31 PM10/17/12
to
Le Wed, 17 Oct 2012 21:14:40 +0200, Bill Findlay
<yald...@blueyonder.co.uk> a écrit:
trustability of what you see/read, provision for formal analysis, and so
on, may indeed make some people be both interested in Ada in one hand, and
Haskell, SML (and others) in an other. Ada is not only about verbosity
(which would not be that much interesting alone), it's also about
trustability and provision for analysis. Don't be fooled by the
conciseness of functional language like Haskell and SML. Formal proofs
languages typically are concise in some way (and that's even what make
them usable, if they were not, there would simply be unpracticable), just
to say concise is not necessarily a synonym of unsafe or untrustable.
There are time or task where verbosity is welcome, there are time and task
where it would prevents things from being done. Conciseness is mainly with
implicit types, which does not mean “untyped” nor “dynamically typed”,
even the opposite (and even more than simple types with formal proofs).
Where you have other way to do thing than verbosity, you do with these
other ways. Because some things are provable or are mainly manipulated by
mathematicians, there is SML and Haskel, and because some things would
need years to be proven, there is Ada and it's verbosity which helps
reliability its own way.
Not surprisingly, some people live in both worlds.
<yald...@blueyonder.co.uk> a écrit:
> It surprises me that soemone who appreciates Ada also subscribes to the
> cult
> of 'concision', which is so antithetical to the view of programming as a
> human activity. 8-)
>
Clearly identified foundations, formal definitions and specification,
> cult
> of 'concision', which is so antithetical to the view of programming as a
> human activity. 8-)
>
trustability of what you see/read, provision for formal analysis, and so
on, may indeed make some people be both interested in Ada in one hand, and
Haskell, SML (and others) in an other. Ada is not only about verbosity
(which would not be that much interesting alone), it's also about
trustability and provision for analysis. Don't be fooled by the
conciseness of functional language like Haskell and SML. Formal proofs
languages typically are concise in some way (and that's even what make
them usable, if they were not, there would simply be unpracticable), just
to say concise is not necessarily a synonym of unsafe or untrustable.
There are time or task where verbosity is welcome, there are time and task
where it would prevents things from being done. Conciseness is mainly with
implicit types, which does not mean “untyped” nor “dynamically typed”,
even the opposite (and even more than simple types with formal proofs).
Where you have other way to do thing than verbosity, you do with these
other ways. Because some things are provable or are mainly manipulated by
mathematicians, there is SML and Haskel, and because some things would
need years to be proven, there is Ada and it's verbosity which helps
reliability its own way.
Not surprisingly, some people live in both worlds.
mon...@gmail.com
Oct 17, 2012, 8:04:03 PM10/17/12
to
> Ah, now there we part company.
>
> I used to be a cow-orker of the inventors of Haskell, who got up to their
>
> nefarious activitits two offices along from me.
>
>
>
> It surprises me that soemone who appreciates Ada also subscribes to the cult
>
> of 'concision', which is so antithetical to the view of programming as a
>
> human activity. 8-)
Well sometimes we do get a little crazy on the operators I do admit. But I see Ada as a natural companion to Haskell. To me, Haskell and Ada make as much sense as Haskell and C, well if it were not for the abundance of libraries.
>
> I used to be a cow-orker of the inventors of Haskell, who got up to their
>
> nefarious activitits two offices along from me.
>
>
>
> It surprises me that soemone who appreciates Ada also subscribes to the cult
>
> of 'concision', which is so antithetical to the view of programming as a
>
> human activity. 8-)
Randy Brukardt
Oct 18, 2012, 6:49:22 PM10/18/12
to
<mon...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:b40dd3a7-c09d-465f...@googlegroups.com...
>The ada2012.com site was a good opportunity for Ada to eat it's own
>dogfood.
>Seems like a good candidate for AWS. If it can't be used for ada2012.com
>why
>would anyone consider it at all?
Until the site was "modernized" last year, AdaIC.com ran on a server
completely programmed in Ada. Ada-Auth.org and Archive.AdaIC.com still do,
along with the search engine used in the RM and the Ada-wide search. (It
doesn't use AWS; the server was originally a Claw example program and has
been expanded from there.)
I need to upgrade the hardware (it's more than 10 years old), but that
shouldn't be a significant problem for the Ada code. (The other programs are
much more of a problem.)
Randy.
news:b40dd3a7-c09d-465f...@googlegroups.com...
>The ada2012.com site was a good opportunity for Ada to eat it's own
>dogfood.
>Seems like a good candidate for AWS. If it can't be used for ada2012.com
>why
>would anyone consider it at all?
Until the site was "modernized" last year, AdaIC.com ran on a server
completely programmed in Ada. Ada-Auth.org and Archive.AdaIC.com still do,
along with the search engine used in the RM and the Ada-wide search. (It
doesn't use AWS; the server was originally a Claw example program and has
been expanded from there.)
I need to upgrade the hardware (it's more than 10 years old), but that
shouldn't be a significant problem for the Ada code. (The other programs are
much more of a problem.)
Randy.
Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
Nov 4, 2012, 2:58:12 PM11/4/12
to
Le Sun, 07 Oct 2012 18:26:47 +0200, Michael Erdmann <boav...@snafu.de> a
écrit:
> What i would propose
>
> Persuade the Ada Information House to become visible in facebook
> as it is done my NASA, ESA etc. by presenting the events
> they are showing on there first page in a time line.
>
> All the enthusiasts in this community should gather together to
> maintain a fan page in facebook to create better visibility of there
> activities, means events, software releases ...
>
> […]
Posting it here to not open a new thread for it (not worth a thread).
If any one feels good enough to reply to the single comment on this
article:
http://electronicdesign.com/blog/altembedded-6/embedded/programmers-time-ada-73975
Single comment says:
> Or even better forget about the dark cabala and
> mysticism with Ada, having no idea what ASM willend up on you embedded
> chip: Just Use C&LUA :)
écrit:
> What i would propose
>
> Persuade the Ada Information House to become visible in facebook
> as it is done my NASA, ESA etc. by presenting the events
> they are showing on there first page in a time line.
>
> All the enthusiasts in this community should gather together to
> maintain a fan page in facebook to create better visibility of there
> activities, means events, software releases ...
>
> […]
Posting it here to not open a new thread for it (not worth a thread).
If any one feels good enough to reply to the single comment on this
article:
http://electronicdesign.com/blog/altembedded-6/embedded/programmers-time-ada-73975
Single comment says:
> Or even better forget about the dark cabala and
> mysticism with Ada, having no idea what ASM willend up on you embedded
> chip: Just Use C&LUA :)
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