Re: Usenet groups removed for violating Google terms of service.
Theo Markettos
> I don't know if this is the right group for this question. If not then
> hopefully someone can stir me in the right direction.
I've just crossposted this to comp.internet.services.google and news.groups
where it should be roughly on-topic. (Less so for news.groups, but it does
have knock-on effects to more than the people who use Google as a newsfeed
provider).
It might also be worth asking news.admin.net-abuse.policy, but that's
moderated so I can't crosspost easily. Neither c.i.s.g or n.a.n-a.p are
very high traffic, so I don't know if anyone actually reads them.
> Anyway I was looking for this old usenet group and got this Google notice
> that it was removed for violation of terms of service. I won't mention
> the group because it is an offensive group and Google was justified in
> removing it. Thank you Google. Anyway my question is what happens to all
> the posts of the removed group? Does google archive them or just delete
> them forever?
What hierarchy was the group in? It's quite possible that they continue to
archive but don't make them public. I don't know if they state policy on
this. Have you tried asking them?
Theo
Sum Guy
> > Anyway I was looking for this old usenet group and got
> > this Google notice that it was removed for violation of
> > terms of service. I won't mention the group because it
> > is an offensive group and Google was justified in removing it.
Why won't you mention the group name?
Was it a *real* usenet newsgroup, or one of those bastardized
"google-groups" ???
Aatu Koskensilta
> What hierarchy was the group in?
I've no idea what hierarchy or group sinebar is talking about. I know,
though, that some time ago Google removed misc.test for violating
Google's terms of service. As they helpfully explain:
The group named misc.test has been removed because it violated Google's
Terms Of Service.
What this means is anyone's guess.
--
Aatu Koskensilta (aatu.kos...@uta.fi)
"Wovon man nicht sprechan kann, dar�ber muss man schweigen"
- Ludwig Wittgenstein, Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus
Mark Kramer
Theo Markettos <theom...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>sinebar <sineb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I don't know if this is the right group for this question. If not then
>> hopefully someone can stir me in the right direction.
>> Anyway I was looking for this old usenet group and got this Google notice
>> that it was removed for violation of terms of service. I won't mention
>> the group because it is an offensive group and Google was justified in
>> removing it. Thank you Google. Anyway my question is what happens to all
>> the posts of the removed group? Does google archive them or just delete
>> them forever?
If you can't get to them, why does it matter which it does?
Kathy Morgan
> It might also be worth asking news.admin.net-abuse.policy, but that's
> moderated so I can't crosspost easily. Neither c.i.s.g or n.a.n-a.p are
> very high traffic, so I don't know if anyone actually reads them.
I think probably many people read n.a.n-a.p, partly because it's low
traffic, but this isn't an issue involving net-abuse so OP probably
wouldn't get much response there. Each server administrator may choose
the groups he wishes to carry; failure to carry a particular group isn't
abuse.
--
Kathy, speaking only for myself
K. A. Cannon
<871vj6d...@dialatheia.truth.invalid> in news.groups on Mon, 07
Dec 2009 20:06:31 +0200:
>Theo Markettos <theom...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> writes:
>
>> What hierarchy was the group in?
>
>I've no idea what hierarchy or group sinebar is talking about. I know,
>though, that some time ago Google removed misc.test for violating
>Google's terms of service. As they helpfully explain:
>
> The group named misc.test has been removed because it violated Google's
> Terms Of Service.
Funny...like Google removing it is going to make it go away.
It is still there.
>What this means is anyone's guess.
It means that to the ever loving n00bs out there it looks like
Google = UseNet.
--
K. A. Cannon
kevin.a.cannon at gmail dot com
Don't worry about the world coming to an end today.
It's already tomorrow in Australia.
-Charles Schultz
COOSN-266-06-02374
Hammer of Thor, April 2005
PIERRE SALINGER MEMORIAL HOOK, LINE & SINKER June 2007
Barbara Woodhouse Memorial Dog Whistle X 2
#9 People ruining UseNet lits.
#6 Top Assholes on the Net lits.
#5 Most hated Usenetizens of all time
#15 AUK psychos and felons lits
#5 Cog in the AUK Hate Machine
http://www.themonastery.org/dev/cert/ulc_certificate_view.swf?id=10010810040414
Aatu Koskensilta
> Aatu Koskensilta <aatu.kos...@uta.fi> posted
> <871vj6d...@dialatheia.truth.invalid> in news.groups on Mon, 07
> Dec 2009 20:06:31 +0200:
>
>>I know, though, that some time ago Google removed misc.test for
>>violating Google's terms of service. As they helpfully explain:
>>
>> The group named misc.test has been removed because it violated
>> Google's Terms Of Service.
>
> Funny...like Google removing it is going to make it go away. It is
> still there.
Surely you're not suggesting Google would lie to us? Misc.test is gone
if they say it is. It violated the terms of service, and that's it.
Moe Trin
<9aF*Fq...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>, Theo Markettos wrote:
>sinebar <sineb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I don't know if this is the right group for this question. If not
>> then hopefully someone can stir me in the right direction.
It appears that the O/P posted this to comp.security.misc, but
nothing you've posted indicates that it has anything to do with
computers or security.
>I've just crossposted this to comp.internet.services.google and
>news.groups where it should be roughly on-topic. (Less so for
>news.groups, but it does have knock-on effects to more than the
>people who use Google as a newsfeed provider).
Looking at your headers, it appears that the O/P was posting from
googlegroups.com, and a lot of people are filtering such postings.
This is one of 14 newsgroups I filter such posts (out of 80 I try
to scan daily) because it's been abused so badly by google. The
O/P would do well to find a real news server (there are plenty
of _free_ and low cost servers available).
>It might also be worth asking news.admin.net-abuse.policy, but
>that's moderated so I can't crosspost easily.
The original post lacks enough detail to see if it's even remotely
on topic. I don't believe it is.
>Neither c.i.s.g or n.a.n-a.p are very high traffic, so I don't know
>if anyone actually reads them.
Can't speak to c.i.s.g as it's of zero interest to me. n.a.n-a.p is
running about 15 articles a month.
>> Anyway I was looking for this old usenet group and got this Google
>> notice that it was removed for violation of terms of service.
Was it actually a Usenet group (one of 2288 groups in the Big Eight
hierarchies listed in the monthly post to news.announce.newgroups,
news.groups and news.lists.misc) or one of the uncounted thousands
of non-big-eight groups (the server I'm posting from carries 109000
such groups), or one of the toy groups created by/for google? It
sounds like the later, as google intentionally allows abuse of the
big-eight and alternative groups.
>> Anyway my question is what happens to all the posts of the removed
>> group? Does google archive them or just delete them forever?
If you look around the google web page, there should be a "Contact Us"
icon under the "About Google" crap. You'd get better luck there, as
they are the ones who removed the group.
>What hierarchy was the group in? It's quite possible that they
>continue to archive but don't make them public. I don't know if they
>state policy on this. Have you tried asking them?
google is an advertising/spam/spyware service. They make their money
by flooding viewers with advertisements and spam that their spyware
and data-mining functions feel are what you might be interested in.
The news groups and archives are the honey they use hoping to attract
people to view their ads/spam. Because they have shit in the honey,
less people see the need to view the ads. Whether google will stop
the abuse, or whether it's to late and they've alienated potential
customers is a question only they can answer. Their ``improvements''
to the Usenet archive search function have destroyed much of the
former usefulness, and their advertisement selection algorithm has
(for me) a better chance of turning up an ad that has nothing to do
with what I'm searching for than one that might be relative.
Personally, there are less abusive and less incompetent services on
the web, and I no longer recommend google.
Old guy
NormanM
> Surely you're not suggesting Google would lie to us? Misc.test is gone
> if they say it is. It violated the terms of service, and that's it.
;) You're kidding, right? ;)
--
Norman
~Where is the place I'm going to?
~Now a voice is beginning to sing
~It's reaching me, leading me...
~Raising me to heaven
NormanM
> sinebar <sineb...@gmail.com> wrote:
<snip>
>> Anyway I was looking for this old usenet group and got this Google notice
>> that it was removed for violation of terms of service. I won't mention
>> the group because it is an offensive group and Google was justified in
>> removing it. Thank you Google. Anyway my question is what happens to all
>> the posts of the removed group? Does google archive them or just delete
>> them forever?
> What hierarchy was the group in? It's quite possible that they continue to
> archive but don't make them public. I don't know if they state policy on
> this. Have you tried asking them?
It makes no difference what Google does, if the group in question is
actually part of the Usenet. Google can only remove groups from their
servers/archives. They can't delete Usenet groups from all the NNTP servers
in the world.
"The Great One"
"Aatu Koskensilta" <aatu.kos...@uta.fi> wrote in message news:87ws0yb...@dialatheia.truth.invalid...
> K. A. Cannon <kca...@insurgent.orgy> writes:
>
> > Aatu Koskensilta <aatu.kos...@uta.fi> posted
> > <871vj6d...@dialatheia.truth.invalid> in news.groups on Mon, 07
> > Dec 2009 20:06:31 +0200:
> >
> >>I know, though, that some time ago Google removed misc.test for
> >>violating Google's terms of service. As they helpfully explain:
> >>
> >> The group named misc.test has been removed because it violated
> >> Google's Terms Of Service.
> >
> > Funny...like Google removing it is going to make it go away. It is
> > still there.
>
> Surely you're not suggesting Google would lie to us? Misc.test is gone
> if they say it is. It violated the terms of service, and that's it.
> --
> Aatu Koskensilta (aatu.kos...@uta.fi)
GOOGLE AIN'T SHIT !!
Say goodnight, Aatu....woof....woof....
--
John C. [The Great One!]
Aatu Koskensilta
> On Mon, 07 Dec 2009 21:26:38 +0200, Aatu Koskensilta wrote:
>
>> Surely you're not suggesting Google would lie to us? Misc.test is gone
>> if they say it is. It violated the terms of service, and that's it.
>
> ;) You're kidding, right? ;)
I never kid. It is well known I'm a thoroughly humourless git.
Let us all pause in a moment of silence in memory of misc.test, and
reflect on its untimely passing away. There is no denying misc.test
violated Goodle's terms of service. Let us not hold that against it, for
who of us can in all honesty, without lying even just a little, without
being just a wee bit misleading about the actual course of events,
without an attempt to muddy the waters by launching into lengthy but
ultimately irrelevant diatribes about their hardship, the polio that is
slowly eating away at their firstborn child, the outrageous price they
ask for a pack of cigarette these days, the mind-numbing monotony of
web-development in PHP, the sad fact that the cranks we get on sci.logic
these days just peddle tired fifth-rate idiocy, not a match to the true
giants of yester year, who could baffle armies of mathematicians into
stymied submission with just one peculiar twist of logic, the cosmic,
otherworldly, eerie plain dullness of Koivusalo's version of _Under the
Northern Star_, we've never violated Google's terms of service? Let's be
candid, frank, avoiding all pussyfooting, beating around the bush, what
have you, and come clean with it: not a single of us even knows what a
group must do in order to avoid violating these terms. So let all
judgmental thoughts flow out of your third eye, from the fanged mouth of
the waken kundalini snake that has made your pineal gland its
home. Instead, in remembrance of times past, all the good misc.test had
an integral part in bringing to our lives, let us instead adopt of
mindset of celebration, celebration tempered with sadness over a friend
lost, but celebration nevertheless. Perhaps, just perhaps, misc.test
didn't really die, not the death of oblivion, the death of
obscurity. Perhaps, just perhaps, if we all take it into our hearts, the
memory of misc.test, those ephemeral but beautiful moments that defined
the group for each of us, those brief seconds we truly felt its
presence, will live on, multiplying, transforming, transmogrifying into
something new and wondrous, in the very essence, in the very being, in
the very human contact with other human beings, in the sharing of a
random but deeply meaningful encounter, in the molding into one of the
disperse pieces and perspectives, of the multifarious vantage points
from which we gazed, sometimes wistfully, at that beloved group, beloved
not in spite but because of its idiosyncrasies, that we mourners
effected, not unlike drops of pure spring water, pregnant with the
possibility of nurturing the blossoming of boisterous flora, those drops
that bring forth the Newtonian miracle of the rainbow, serving as
inspiration for future misc groups, some yet unborn, existing as they do
but as a weak, gentle hint of a twinkle in the collective, unbatted
eyelid of the Big-8 management board.
As with the Gunpowder Treason, I see no reason you should ever be
forgot either, misc.test.
Your cousin, alt.test, must now bear the burden of your
responsibilities as well, you departed, but not yet quite decanted to
the putrid container for groups removed by Google, misc.test. May that
group carry the mantle with honour. May that that group will not soil
your fine reputation. May that that group refrain from violating
Google's Terms of Service. May that... But I burst into tears, reduced
to a sobbing lump of disgusting, wiggly, undulating meat whose movement
inspires a sense of dizzying queasy, but whose strangely hypnotic
movement makes looking away impossible. In these sentiments, unable to
continue any longer, I must bid you all goodbye, with a tastelessly,
tactlessly inappropriately merry and cheery wish of happy Day after the
Day after Finnish Independence Day!
With dread, confusion, grief in my soul, without the usual
sig-delimiter, in honour of this special, sad occasion, with all the love
in the world, I am, Sir, your humble and obedient servant, may I always
live to serve you and your crown,
Aatu Koskensilta (aatu.kos...@uta.fi) (dressed in all black
(well, almost), which colour, that is, deep velvety black, being
symbolic of inexorable grief in this context)
"Der Sinn der Welt muss ausserhalb ihrer liegen. In der Welt ist
alles wie es ist und geschieht alles wie es geschieht; es gibt in ihr
keinen Wert --- und wenn es ihn g�be, so h�tte er keinen Wert"
Sum Guy
> Let us all pause in a moment of silence in memory of misc.test,
> and reflect on its untimely passing away. There is no denying
> misc.test violated Goodle's terms of service.
What kind of garbage are you poasting? Are you joking?
Since when can an inanimate object - such as a newsgroup - violate
anyone's "terms of use" ? Only people can violate terms of use.
misc.test is alive and well.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.test/unlock?_done=/group/misc.test/topics
But is is true that it is no longer accessible via deja.com (aka google
groups). Anyone know the real reason why?
Tomi H�s�
Yep: "The group named misc.test has been removed because it violated
Google's Terms Of Service."
> Anyone know the real reason why?
It's Google's spam recognition algorithms that need to get fixed or they
need a white list for the test groups.
Aatu Koskensilta
> Are you joking?
As we have already established, I never joke: I am a thoroughly
humourless git.
> Since when can an inanimate object - such as a newsgroup - violate
> anyone's "terms of use" ? Only people can violate terms of use.
This will be a source of no end of perplexity, then, since as we've been
informed by Google, the newsgroup misc.test was removed for violating
Google's Terms of Service.
> misc.test is alive and well.
Alas, no. It's been removed by Google. Please join me in a moment of
silence.
--
Aatu Koskensilta (aatu.kos...@uta.fi)
"Wovon man nicht sprechan kann, dar�ber muss man schweigen"
NormanM
> Alas, no. It's been removed by Google.
By Google, probably. I don't use Google Groups for news posting, though, so
I will have to take your word for it.
By the Usenet, in general, no; it has not been removed. Any proper NNTP
service worth the fee (and many free, as well) still carry it.
Adam H. Kerman
>>http://groups.google.com/group/misc.test/unlock?_done=/group/misc.test/topics
Would these be the algorithms that cannot recognize massive spam injected
into Usenet via Google Group's peering with major spam sources that no one
else peers with?
Will Dockery
--
New poetry & music recordings by Will Dockery
http://www.myspace.com/willdockery
On Dec 7, 7:35 pm, "\"The Great One\"" <honestj...@centurytel.net>
wrote:
> "Aatu Koskensilta" <aatu.koskensi...@uta.fi> wrote in messagenews:87ws0yb...@dialatheia.truth.invalid...
> > K. A. Cannon <kcan...@insurgent.orgy> writes:
>
> > > Aatu Koskensilta <aatu.koskensi...@uta.fi> posted
> > > <871vj6d5g8....@dialatheia.truth.invalid> in news.groups on Mon, 07
> > > Dec 2009 20:06:31 +0200:
>
> > >>I know, though, that some time ago Google removed misc.test for
> > >>violating Google's terms of service. As they helpfully explain:
>
> > >> The group named misc.test has been removed because it violated
> > >> Google's Terms Of Service.
>
> > > Funny...like Google removing it is going to make it go away. It is
> > > still there.
>
> > Surely you're not suggesting Google would lie to us? Misc.test is gone
> > if they say it is. It violated the terms of service, and that's it.
> > --
> > Aatu Koskensilta (aatu.koskensi...@uta.fi)
Aatu Koskensilta
> What did these newsgroups supposedly "do" to violate Google's TOS?
My best guess (in case of misc.test and such like): get flooded with
garbage, which Google apparently has no inclination whatever to do
anything about.
Will Dockery
> Will Dockery writes:
>
> What did these newsgroups supposedly "do" to violate Google's TOS?
>
> My best guess (in case of misc.test and such like): get flooded with
> garbage, which Google apparently has no inclination whatever to do
> anything about.
Ah, "garbage" that Google helped bring on themselves by mixing their
awful "Google Groups" with Usenet, not to mention fouling up the
archives with the junk...
--
New poetry & music recordings by Will Dockery
http://www.myspace.com/willdockery
> --
> Aatu Koskensilta (aatu.koskensi...@uta.fi)
>
> "Wovon man nicht sprechan kann, darüber muss man schweigen"
sinebar
The very name is so offensive I didn't really want to mention it but
maybe I can do it like this. It was called alt.flame.n word.
Sum Guy
> > Was it a *real* usenet newsgroup, or one of those bastardized
> > "google-groups" ???
>
> The very name is so offensive I didn't really want to mention
> it but maybe I can do it like this. It was called alt.flame.n
> word.
Ah. You mean nigger.
The server I use carries these nigger groups:
alt.flame.niggers (TOS)
alt.fuck.niggers (TOS)
alt.niggers (TOS)
alt.niggers (TOS)
alt.i-hate.niggers (does not exist)
alt.kill.a-nigger (does not exist)
alt.kill.a-nigger.for-christ (exists)
TOS indicates that Google doesn't carry the group because it violates
their terms of service (something about not being evil I suppose).
Does-not-exist means google claims the group doesn't exist.
As indicated above, Google does carry one nigger group (which seems
largely defunct based on posting history).
Of the above groups, only alt.flame.niggers seems to have any real
traffic.
In looking up this inforation, I stumbled upon these groups:
alt.flame.jews (TOS)
alt.i-hate.muslims (exists)
Which, as you can see, google carries one, but not the other.
Thor Kottelin
news:2eeb7632-6d32-4cd4...@a21g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
On Dec 7, 8:38 am, Sum Guy <S...@Guy.com> wrote:
> The very name is so offensive I didn't really want to mention it but
> maybe I can do it like this. It was called alt.flame.n word.
afn has existed at least since 1995. Interesting that Google should stop
leeching it in late 2009.
Still available on Google are, for example, a.f.dykes, a.f.faggots,
a.f.rednecks and a.f.pedophiles. Groups removed because they "violated
Google's Terms Of Service" include at least a.f.hispanics, a.f.jews
and--gasp--the worst of them all: a.f.whites.
--
Thor Kottelin
http://www.anta.net/
sinebar
> "sinebar" <sinebar3...@gmail.com> wrote in message
What do you mean by stop leeching it in late 2009?
Thor Kottelin
> On Dec 9, 1:08 am, "Thor Kottelin" <t...@anta.net> wrote:
> > afn has existed at least since 1995. Interesting that Google should
> > stop
> > leeching it in late 2009.
> What do you mean by stop leeching it in late 2009?
I meant "leeching" as in "downloading and capitalizing on".
As for the years, the group was probably as "offensive" ten years ago as
it is now. Google must have had an ulterior reason for quitting said
downloading-and-capitalizing at this specific time.
Steve Bonine
> As for the years, the group was probably as "offensive" ten years ago as
> it is now. Google must have had an ulterior reason for quitting said
> downloading-and-capitalizing at this specific time.
While I understand your attitude about people making money from Usenet
content, if it were not a facility that people find useful they wouldn't
make any money because no one would see the ads. Others might use the
term "providing a useful service at no charge". It depends on your
perspective.
As for why Google decided that this specific group should be removed
now, my assumption is that someone complained. Generally speaking,
Usenet newsgroups are added by customer request these days, and in this
case removed by customer request. Google is in a lose/lose position on
this one; if they carry the newsgroup then a segment of their users will
complain because it's offensive; if they remove it then a different
segment will complain that this violates their rights of free speech.
Mark Kramer
Steve Bonine <s...@pobox.com> wrote:
>Others might use the
>term "providing a useful service at no charge". It depends on your
>perspective.
I'm using my personal subscription to Physics Review Letters A and
posting all the articles on an open web page. I might use the term
"providing a useful service at no charge".
Some might use different terms for wholesale conversion of intellectual
property (and I use that phrase in the legal sense).
>As for why Google decided that this specific group should be removed
>now, my assumption is that someone complained.
If I complain, can we remove you?
sinebar
> "sinebar" <sinebar3...@gmail.com> wrote in message
I think the group was actually removed many years ago just right after
goolge purchased de ja news.
sinebar
How far back does AFN go in the server you use?
Sum Guy
> How far back does AFN go in the server you use?
The server I use (AIOE.org) has a very short retention period (a few
weeks).
Currently, this is the oldest post in alt.flame.niggers that I can read
from it:
--------------------
Subject: Re: can a nigger cook a turkey dinner?
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2009 20:55:27 -0500
From: Mr Wonderful <ran...@netcom.com>
Organization: ACORN,NAACP,SNIC
Newsgroups: alt.flame.niggers
--------------------
There are 115 posts in that newsgroup available to me between that post
and today. Seems to be about 15 - 20 unique authors.