Cost of Netscape 1.0?
lm...@telerama.lm.com
As of next Friday, I'll no longer be employed by an educational
institution. I'll be working solely as a contract tech writer/
Internet & Web consulant. I like to keep things "above board,"
so if I wind up using Netscape 1.0, that means I should pay for
it, at least according to the terms of the license agreement.
SO HOW MUCH WILL IT COST?
I've been through a few Netscape Web pages, and while I see lots
of encouragements to register my use of Netscape with the company,
I see NO MENTION of the cost.
SO HOW MUCH WILL IT COST?
How much is Netscape worth to me? Hard to say. I do prefer it to
Mosaic, but I'm not religious about it.
--
****Laurie Mann * * lm...@telerama.lm.com * * Laurie.Mann (GEnie)****
******** Telerama Home Page: http://www.lm.com/~lmann/ **************
**Web Consultant/Tech Writer/Cheap Color Scanning--E-mail me for rates**
Mike Kelsey
|> I downloaded Netscape 1.0 yesterday. I read the license.
|>
|> As of next Friday, I'll no longer be employed by an educational
|> institution. I'll be working solely as a contract tech writer/
|> Internet & Web consulant. I like to keep things "above board,"
|> so if I wind up using Netscape 1.0, that means I should pay for
|> it, at least according to the terms of the license agreement.
|>
|> SO HOW MUCH WILL IT COST?
|>
|> I've been through a few Netscape Web pages, and while I see lots
|> of encouragements to register my use of Netscape with the company,
|> I see NO MENTION of the cost.
There are three places the price is mentioned, and unfortunately there
are two different values listed. I've notified both in...@mcom.com and
sa...@mcom.com of the discrepancy; hopefully they'll fix them.
From the Ncom's home page, select "Killer Products" (cough, gag), at
<http://home.mcom.com/MCOM/products_docs/index.html>. All the pricing
information is available here:
1) "Netscape" <http://home.mcom.com/MCOM/products_docs/client.html> says:
Note: Once released, Netscape 1.0 will also be available free via
download for personal use. At that time, a commercial version for
business and organizational use, complete with support, will
become available direct from Netscape Communications for a unit
price of $99 on all platforms. Please contact us at
sa...@mcom.com for pricing on larger quantities.
2) "News Releases" followed by the Netscape 1.0 Announcement
<http://home.mcom.com/info/newsrelease8.html> says:
Netscape Communications also announced today that it is setting
the single-user price of its Netscape Navigator for commercial
use at $39. The pricing -- which includes a 90-day warranty,
90-day online or phone support, and diskette or CD -- makes it
readily affordable for commercial users, giving the largest
potential number of users access to commercial strength,
supported technology. Netscape Navigator 1.0 is available for
free downloading on the Internet for academic and non-profit use,
as well as for free evaluation purposes.
Later on in the release, they expand upon the definitions of academic
and non-profit, and the wording is also clear in the license, so this
should dispell the nasty rumors that have been circulating (yeah, sure
it will).
3) "Ordering" <http://home.mcom.com/MCOM/ordering_docs/index.html> has
the prices on the form, in the section under Netscape 1.0:
Netscape 1.0 network navigator
Netscape 1.0 for MS Windows Price: US$39
Quantity:
Netscape 1.0 for Macintosh Price: US$39
Quantity:
Netscape 1.0 for X Windows System Price: US$39
Quantity:
Netscape X Windows Platform:
My _guess_ is that the correct price is US$39. Hope this helps.
-- Mike Kelsey
--
[ My opinions are not endorsed by SLAC, Caltech, or the US government ]
"I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire
off the shoulder of Orion. I've watched C-beams glitter in the dark
near the Tannhauser Gate. All these moments will be lost in time,
like tears in rain." -- Roy Baty
lm...@telerama.lm.com
> In article <3cvo75$5...@asia.lm.com>, lm...@telerama.lm.com writes:
> |> SO HOW MUCH WILL IT COST?
Well, that's a little rich for my tastes....(Mosaic isn't THAT bad...)
> use at $39. The pricing -- which includes a 90-day warranty,
Much better. I'd go for that.
Thanks for the info, Mike. Mebbe someone from MCOM can respond
to confirm or deny. In the meantime, I'll try out 1.0 and see how
it goes.
Jay Farrell
> I downloaded Netscape 1.0 yesterday. I read the license.
> SO HOW MUCH WILL IT COST?
>
> I've been through a few Netscape Web pages, and while I see lots
> of encouragements to register my use of Netscape with the company,
> I see NO MENTION of the cost.
>
> SO HOW MUCH WILL IT COST?
>
> How much is Netscape worth to me? Hard to say. I do prefer it to
> Mosaic, but I'm not religious about it.
>
How about $39 (thirty-nine dollars); that's the intro price according to
their press release.
--
Jay Farrell http://www.netaxs.com/~jayfar/
jay...@netaxs.com
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, U.S.A.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
"Wonder How A Po' M*ther F*cker Feel"
-- Joshua Jordan (1919-1993)
Marc Andreessen
> As of next Friday, I'll no longer be employed by an educational
> institution. I'll be working solely as a contract tech writer/
> Internet & Web consulant. I like to keep things "above board,"
> so if I wind up using Netscape 1.0, that means I should pay for
> it, at least according to the terms of the license agreement.
You can use it free for evaluation purposes for as long as you want.
> SO HOW MUCH WILL IT COST?
$39. This is substantially lower than our previously announced
price, and some pages on our server may still be out of date (but
not for much longer). In the near future you will be able to buy
it directly over the net; in the meantime, please contact
sa...@mcom.com.
Cheers,
Marc
--
Marc Andreessen
Netscape Communications Corp.
Mountain View, CA
ma...@mcom.com
Barry Margolin
>You can use it free for evaluation purposes for as long as you want.
So if I "evaluate" it for five years, I'm not stealing it? I can imagine
the following company policy: put an evaluation copy on everyone's desktop
machine. When all employees unanimously choose to purchase it, send an
order; so long as one person hasn't approved of it, it's still under
evaluation, and need not be paid for.
>$39. This is substantially lower than our previously announced
>price, and some pages on our server may still be out of date (but
>not for much longer).
While I agree that this is a very reasonable price, what happened to all
the plan that it would continue to be free for personal use? Whenever
someone asked about the clause in the beta licenses that implied that the
non-beta version would be commercial, NCOM posted that 1.0 would also be
free for personal use. But now it seems that it's only free for students
and faculty/staff of educational institutions.
> In the near future you will be able to buy
>it directly over the net; in the meantime, please contact
>sa...@mcom.com.
It appears that you already can. I just ordered it from the order page on
your secure HTTP server.
--
Barry Margolin
BBN Internet Services Corp.
bar...@near.net
Marc Andreessen
> So if I "evaluate" it for five years, I'm not stealing it? I can imagine
> the following company policy: put an evaluation copy on everyone's desktop
> machine. When all employees unanimously choose to purchase it, send an
> order; so long as one person hasn't approved of it, it's still under
> evaluation, and need not be paid for.
You can contrive all sorts of situations, but that's not really the
point. We're trying to strike a balance between giving it away for
free and making at least enough money to continue its development.
The 1.0N license is the least confusing and least ambiguous approach
we came up with, and we hope it makes some sense.
> >$39. This is substantially lower than our previously announced
> >price, and some pages on our server may still be out of date (but
> >not for much longer).
>
> While I agree that this is a very reasonable price, what happened to all
> the plan that it would continue to be free for personal use? Whenever
> someone asked about the clause in the beta licenses that implied that the
> non-beta version would be commercial, NCOM posted that 1.0 would also be
> free for personal use. But now it seems that it's only free for students
> and faculty/staff of educational institutions.
See extract from the FAQ I recently posted, below...
Cheers,
Marc
Q. I thought you originally said Netscape Navigator would be
free for personal use. That license instead says free for
educational and nonprofit users and free for evaluation use
by others. What's up?
A. We found that trying to craft a license that accommodated personal
use per se while restricting free use by companies -- our original
intent -- was nearly impossible and inevitably led to confusion on the part
of the users, as has been evident in Usenet discussions over the past
few months as people have tried to understand just what "personal
use" means anyway. So we've disambiguated the situation by defining
two classes of users -- educational and nonprofit users, and everyone
else -- and saying that Netscape Navigator is free (totally free,
with no restrictions on type of use or anything else) for educational
and nonprofit users and free for evaluation use (with no time limit
or loss of functionality) for other users, who will primarily be
employees of companies. We feel this both adheres to the spirit
of our intent while cleanly defining what you as an individual user
can do with the software.
Q. What's the difference between the beta license for the 0.9x versions
of Netscape Navigator I've been using up until now, and the 1.0N
license?
A. The Netscape Navigator beta license allowed use "for evaluation and
trial use purposes only". The Netscape Navigator 1.0N license
specifies that educational and nonprofit users may use it for free
and that other users may use it for evaluation purposes. The beta
license specified expiration "within thirty (30) days following
Netscape's release of a commercial version of the Software"; the
1.0N license does not expire on any date (for either educational
and nonprofit users or other users).
Michael Salmon
|> > SO HOW MUCH WILL IT COST?
|>
|> $39. This is substantially lower than our previously announced
|> price, and some pages on our server may still be out of date (but
|> not for much longer). In the near future you will be able to buy
|> it directly over the net; in the meantime, please contact
|> sa...@mcom.com.
What does $39 buy me? Ericsson has a large number of workstations in a
number of locations. Is it $39 per company, location or workstation?
--
Michael Salmon
#include <standard.disclaimer>
#include <witty.saying>
#include <fancy.pseudo.graphics>
Ericsson Telecom AB
Stockholm
Christoph Adomeit
>In article <3cvo75$5...@asia.lm.com>, lm...@telerama.lm.com wrote:
>> As of next Friday, I'll no longer be employed by an educational
>> institution. I'll be working solely as a contract tech writer/
>> Internet & Web consulant. I like to keep things "above board,"
>> so if I wind up using Netscape 1.0, that means I should pay for
>> it, at least according to the terms of the license agreement.
>You can use it free for evaluation purposes for as long as you want.
>> SO HOW MUCH WILL IT COST?
>$39. This is substantially lower than our previously announced
>price, and some pages on our server may still be out of date (but
>not for much longer). In the near future you will be able to buy
>it directly over the net; in the meantime, please contact
>sa...@mcom.com.
Hi,
this might be discussion about software-development in general and not
about www in particular, but I would like to say that I find it a
very good idea to sell a good piece of software for only $39.
Please see that the guys of mcom have to live from something as we all
have. There is nothing bad in asking for money for good software,
especially not with such a low rate. Compare it to the $10000+ for an
Informix Database or to the $$ for Microsoft, SCO ,Lotus or Novell
Products.
We should not flame around because some people feel to be misused as
beta testers.
The intelligent features of Netscape will surely influence the further
development of Mosaic, Lynx or other Browsers.
BTW: I for myself will still use Lynx on Linux since I don't have the
money to go for at least another 8 Megs of Ram to run X:-)
Ciao
Christoph
--
bigcomm-linux-box: free linux-files at first call. Logins:uucp:nuucp,bbs:guest
nslip: nslip, your IP=192.168.100.2,nppp: nppp,IP=192.168.100.2,my ip:
192.109.159.132 Data : +49 211 3985258 request ~/filelist/allfiles.gz
Marc Andreessen
> In article <marca-18129...@gator1.mcom.com>
> ma...@mcom.com (Marc Andreessen) writes:
> [..]
> |> > SO HOW MUCH WILL IT COST?
> |>
> |> $39. This is substantially lower than our previously announced
> |> price, and some pages on our server may still be out of date (but
> |> not for much longer). In the near future you will be able to buy
> |> it directly over the net; in the meantime, please contact
> |> sa...@mcom.com.
>
> What does $39 buy me? Ericsson has a large number of workstations in a
> number of locations. Is it $39 per company, location or workstation?
$39 is the price for the first user. For a large number of users,
the price per user depends on the exact number of users. Please contact
sa...@mcom.com for a quote.
David Brooks
when you have to make money off your flagship product, believe me. I'm
stil upset about the feeling of having the rug taken out from under,
though; it's not the money, it's the principle.
ma...@mcom.com (Marc Andreessen) writes:
>A. ...So we've disambiguated the situation by defining
> two classes of users -- educational and nonprofit users, and everyone
> else -- and saying that Netscape Navigator is free (totally free,
> with no restrictions on type of use or anything else) for educational
> and nonprofit users and free for evaluation use (with no time limit
> or loss of functionality) for other users, who will primarily be
> employees of companies.
I'm concerned that this is exactly what you are doing: splitting the Web
community into two parts, and neither will completely understand the
concerns of the other. Furthermore, until someone clones the security
extensions, ex-free users at cheapskate companies are locked out of one
significant part of the Web's function.
Two classes, but there may be three. I wonder if individual employees at
the partner companies (Digital, MCI) have licenses thrown in as part of the
deal. No, you don't have to answer that.
>A. ...The beta
> license specified expiration "within thirty (30) days following
> Netscape's release of a commercial version of the Software"; the
> 1.0N license does not expire on any date (for either educational
> and nonprofit users or other users).
Just so that we know when our license runs out, when was the formal release
of 1.0? More to the point, on what day do I have to kill my 0.96 copy?
Sigh. Back to Mosaic. It was nice while it lasted. Yes, I know that the
cost of Netscape 1.0 is quite ridiculously low, but right now my company
has equally ridiculous budget constraints.
Incidentally, I have read the version of the 1.0 license that came with my
download, but not executed 1.0 code yet; I can't make sense of the
TERMINATION and MISCELLANEOUS sections in the context of an FTP retrieval.
One says "Upon any termination..."; the word "any" excludes the later "You
may also terminate..." specifying different actions. And I don't see why
MISCELLANEOUS talks about purchase orders; how come writing a PO suddenly
makes you subject to the terms of the free license? Any contract lawyers
out there?
--
David Brooks dbr...@ics.com
Integrated Computer Solutions http://www.ics.com/~dbrooks/
Still married to first wife: Reagan no, Gingrich no, Limbaugh no, Clinton yes.
If Clinton *is* a draft-dodger, Gingrich *is* a druggie pornographer.
Steven King, Software Archaeologist
> So we've disambiguated the situation by defining two classes of
> users -- educational and nonprofit users, and everyone else --
> and saying that Netscape Navigator is free (totally free, with no
> restrictions on type of use or anything else) for educational and
> nonprofit users and free for evaluation use (with no time limit
> or loss of functionality) for other users, who will primarily be
> employees of companies.
Just out of curiosity, where does this leave the huge number of
individuals who have their own SLIP connections through private
access providers, and use Netscape from home completely independent
of their employers. This is a third class of user not covered by your
"educational and nonprofit users" and "corporate users" categories.
I won't begrudge you your $39 -- I think it's fair price for a decent
program and I'd be happy to pay it. I just want to know if my personal
at-home use is classified as "nonprofit" or "corporate" in the eyes of
your license agreement.
--
----------------------------------------------<Steven King, ki...@cig.mot.com>--
Damn the expletives, full speed ahead!
(Bob deBeaubien)
David Silberberg
ki...@wildebeest.cig.mot.com writes:
>Just out of curiosity, where does this leave the huge number of
>individuals who have their own SLIP connections through private
>access providers, and use Netscape from home completely independent
>of their employers. This is a third class of user not covered by your
>"educational and nonprofit users" and "corporate users" categories.
I'm not sure I understand the point of this whole thread.
Hasn't a representative of Mcom / Netscape said that Netscape 1.0 will be free
to personal users for "evaluation purposes" as long as we want? Doesn't this
mean, in effect, that we personal users can use it for free forever? Even
considering the ambiguities and perhaps wording problems with the license,
this seems rather clear to me.
David Silberberg
dav...@interaccess.com
Woman I love got 2 teeth solid gold -
Got a lien on my body, mortgage on my soul
Johnny Shines
Walter Scott
: I won't begrudge you your $39 -- I think it's fair price for a decent
: program and I'd be happy to pay it.
The $39 cost of Navigator is for Version 1.0 only. Future versions
may escalate in cost.
The license agreement states:
:>This license does not grant you any right to any enhancement or
:>update to the Software and Documentation. Enhancements and updates,
:>if available, may be obtained by you at Netscape's then-current
;>standard pricing, terms, and conditions."
How do we know that Version 1.5 will not appear in January, 1.6 in
February, etc? Each could add features (including those removed from the
recent versions). Cost of each version could increase. $99 for V 1.5,
$129 for V 2.0, $199 for V 2.2, etc. Upgrades could be priced as the
difference between the version you own and the version you want. And when
the number of users is great enough to interest merchants in NNC servers,
students and non-profit users will also pay for the client.
So what exactly are you getting for $39? Maybe Netscape Communications
can state their intentions. But this better be in the form of a License,
because statements made in a less formal manner have been reversed.
--
sco...@netcom.com =============================================
Walter Scott "The MAP is not the TERRITORY", S.I. Hayakawa
San Jose, CA =============================================
David Brooks
>Hasn't a representative of Mcom / Netscape said that Netscape 1.0 will be free
>to personal users for "evaluation purposes" as long as we want? Doesn't this
>mean, in effect, that we personal users can use it for free forever? Even
>considering the ambiguities and perhaps wording problems with the license,
>this seems rather clear to me.
It seems thoroughly disingenuous to me.
You missed out the important qualifier: "...for the purpose of evaluating
whether to purchase an ongoing license to the Software." I couldn't, in
all honesty, claim I can take "forever" to make such a decision.
Glenn Sills
> bro...@ics.com (David Brooks) wrote:
>
> David Silberberg <dav...@interaccess.com> writes:
> >Hasn't a representative of Mcom / Netscape said that Netscape 1.0 will be free
> >to personal users for "evaluation purposes" as long as we want? Doesn't this
> >mean, in effect, that we personal users can use it for free forever? Even
> >considering the ambiguities and perhaps wording problems with the license,
> >this seems rather clear to me.
>
> It seems thoroughly disingenuous to me.
>
> You missed out the important qualifier: "...for the purpose of evaluating
> whether to purchase an ongoing license to the Software." I couldn't, in
> all honesty, claim I can take "forever" to make such a decision.
No problem. Don't use Netscape. Next thread......
glenn