X10 Signal Bridge
Scott Long
couple of lamp units responding to a controller, tried the
"oven trick" in the FAQ and have determined that I need a
signal bridge.
Does anyone know the basic circuitry in a signal bridge? If
turning on a 200v appliance can bridge the two circuits
successfully, I was wondering if it might work just as well to
wire a new 220v outlet and plug in something like a 220v neon
bulb - any thoughts or advice?
Thanks,
- Scott
Barry L. Lankford
>Thanks,
>- Scott
Last year I mailed out UUencoded copies of the drawing of the
Leviton Signal Bridge. I will try to send one via email to you
if I can still find it. You might be able to salvage parts from
a couple of failed X-10 modules to get the transformers and
tuning capacitors (the ones in parallel with the secondaries of
the transformers). The circuit will probably require retuning.
I will probably put the signal bridge schematic on my WWW page
soon.
You may be able to get by with a .1uF, 600V capacitor installed
across the two phases in your circuit breaker box. Turn off the
lowest amperage dual (220V) breaker in the box and attach the
capacitor to the load screw terminals of each breaker. Or if
space is available, add a new low amperage (the lowest you can
find) dual breaker and attach the capacitor there. Use insulating
tubing to cover exposed capacitor leads. Don't do this yourself
if you do not feel competent working around electrical wiring.
Disclaimer: I am not responsible for anything bad that might happen
to you while doing anything from this point on!
Barry L. Lankford email: bar...@HiWAAY.net Amateur Radio: N4MSJ
Madison, Alabama, USA ICBM: 34deg 41min 52.2sec N, 86deg 45min 34.2sec W
WWW Homepage: http://fly.HiWAAY.net/~barryl/index.html (under construction)
Edward Cheung
> writes:
>
>Does anyone know the basic circuitry in a signal bridge? If
>turning on a 200v appliance can bridge the two circuits
>successfully, I was wondering if it might work just as well to
>wire a new 220v outlet and plug in something like a 220v neon
>bulb - any thoughts or advice?
Just a load (such as a neon bulb) will not work. You need a fairly low
impedance to the 120KHz X-10 carrier. This is accomplished because the stove
has a (relatively) low resistance. You have two common choices:
1) Use a 0.05uF 600 Volt (or greater) capacitor. Con: not UL listed, need
to know what you are doing, hi pass circuit. Pro: cheap.
2) Use a real Leviton signal bridge. Con: cost much more money than a cap.
Pro: bandpass circuit, generally regarded as being safer.
WARNING (read: flame shield) the installation of either components means
exposure to 220Volts. Before attempting this, shut off all power to your
house, hire an electrician, hire a lawyer.
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Edward Cheung, Ph.D. | The opinions expressed herein |
| NASA Goddard Space Flight Center | do not necessarily reflect |
| Mail Code J&T/442 | those of my employers' |
| Greenbelt, MD 20771 | |
| 301-286-1269(office) 286-1717(fax) | My next book: |
| Internet: edward...@gsfc.nasa.gov | Statistics, Demos and Other Lies |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Ian Shef
: I'm just starting with X10. I noticed some irregularity in a
: couple of lamp units responding to a controller, tried the
: "oven trick" in the FAQ and have determined that I need a
: signal bridge.
: Does anyone know the basic circuitry in a signal bridge? If
: turning on a 200v appliance can bridge the two circuits
: successfully, I was wondering if it might work just as well to
: wire a new 220v outlet and plug in something like a 220v neon
: bulb - any thoughts or advice?
: Thanks,
: - Scott
While a neon bulb is a small resistance, it will have a large
value resistor in series with it, which will defeat the
purpose. What you want is something that acts like a large
resistance to 60 Hz (so it doesn't dissipate much power, etc.)
but acts like a small resistance to 120 KHz (approx. value
for the X-10 signal). A 0.1 microfarad capacitor (600 volt)
has been suggested in this newsgroup many time in the past
for this purpose.
At 60 Hz, this is equivalent to about 26.5K ohms, while
at 120 KHz, this is equivalent to about 13.3 ohms
(2000 times as much, the same (but reciprocal to) the
ratio of the frequencies).
I hope that Phil Kingery or one of the other experts
around these parts will jump in and explain that
there are commercial devices available to do this job,
and why they are sometimes preferable.
--
Ian Shef 805/F6 ibs...@ccgate.hac.com
Hughes Missile Systems Co.
P.O. Box 11337 phone: 520-794-7176
Tucson, AZ 85734-1337 Any opinions expressed are author's own.
Actpccpek
Shef) writes:
>I hope that Phil Kingery or one of the other experts
>around these parts will jump in and explain that
>there are commercial devices available to do this job,
>and why they are sometimes preferable.
Huh? What?? I just came back from a short vacation and you know us
Polocks, gotta retrain us after every lunch break.... (just kidding).
Actually, I agree with what Ian and Ed Cheung and others have already
said.
If you currently have no coupling, it is likely that using a 0.1mfd
capacitor across the legs to allow for signal travel between the two
phases will work fine. But remember that the original transmitter only
sends out about 3 watts of signal power. As long as most of it is on one
leg, then signal strength remains high on that leg. As soon as a low
impedance pathway (either the cap or a specifically designed, tuned
circuit device) is introduced, some of the signal will be reduced on the
source leg. Even though it doesn't make my company a penny, I have to
admit that most of the time it works adequately. I would prefer that you
use a passive coupler designed for the job. (Ed offered the suggestion
that you get a device sold by an evil competitor to us, but after all,
what does he know...) The ACT part number is CP000. Also remember that in
larger installations, even passive coupling is inadequate and a true
repeater is required. We also make those. For 120/240v split-single
phase systems, we build both the r CR240 and CR241.
ACT PCC PEK -----> Phillip E. Kingery | Nothing contained herein is
| `--> Powerline Control Components | to be construed as creating
`-> Advanced Control Technologies,Inc | any liability or engineering
Opinions are based on the information | responsibility on behalf of
at hand & worth what you pay for them. | ACT. Fax# 317-337-0200 USA
October 23, 1995
11:41 am
Michael M. Knox
> I also tried the Leviton passive signal bridge and found it significantly
> worse than a simple capacitor. There were some pairs of controllers/modules
> that worked with *no* coupler but failed with the bridge connected. I have
> to assume that the signal which leaked through the main transformer interfered
> destructively with the signal coupled by the bridge, perhaps due to different
> phase shifts.
My experience was exactly the opposite. At my old house, I used no form
of coupling and had no problems at all. This was, I believe, due to the
fact that the house was small and I was close to the utility's pad mounted
distribution transformer.
My new house is much larger and farther away from the utility's transformer.
Consequently, I was having trouble with X-10 signals crossing over to the
second leg, and sometimes even on the same leg in far reaches of the house.
I installed a Leviton 6299 Signal Bridge and have not had a signal go
astray since.
I played with the idea of installing an amplified coupler, but am now glad
I didn't spend the extra money since the 6299 works great. I feel more
comfortable with a properly installed UL approved device connected to
its own double-pole breaker as opposed to a capacitor stuck into the panel.
Regards,
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Knox | E-Mail: mk...@io.org
Brampton, Ontario | ar...@freenet.toronto.on.ca
CANADA |
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Actpccpek
>... I originally tried the capacitor approach and, while it
>worked most of the time for most combinations, signals tended to
>be lost at the most awkward times......
>.....I also tried the Leviton passive signal bridge and found it
significantly
>worse than a simple capacitor. There were some pairs of
controllers/modules
>that worked with *no* coupler but failed with the bridge connected.
It pains me to defend any (evil) Leviton product, since I work for ACT
(which also pays for this AOL account) but the X-10 manufactured 6299
"Signal Bridge" usually does very well. The only situation that would
almost always be detrimentally effected by the use of that (evil) Leviton
device would be the operation of phase-to-phase receivers. (Admittedly,
the same is true even with ACT's passive coupler, the CP000.) In a
residential application, most receivers get their signal through their
connections to phase and NEUTRAL. All 240v phase-to-phase receivers get
their signal (obviously) from their connections to phase and PHASE. With
no coupling at all, one phase (or leg) will always have more signal than
the other and so there is always a "differential" signal voltage. When a
passive coupler is used, the signal on each phase is (almost) equal, and
therefore, very little "differential" signal voltage. Hence, 240v
receivers become unreliable.
>... Since ACT's newish product deals
>even with the dimming issue (at least to the extent it can be dealt with)
>there is little left to recommend against a repeater besides the price.
>But how much is your time worth? (N.B. I haven't had a chance to test
>the ACT repeater for myself yet.)
ACT now makes 11 different repeaters, most are intended for industrial
3-phase systems. Only the CR230 and the CR231 are made specifically for
residential use (the CR230 being the most common). If anyone needs more
info on these, please email me.
ACT PCC PEK -----> Phillip E. Kingery | Nothing contained herein is
| `--> Powerline Control Components | to be construed as creating
`-> Advanced Control Technologies,Inc | any liability or engineering
Opinions are based on the information | responsibility on behalf of
at hand & worth what you pay for them. | ACT. Fax# 317-337-0200 USA
October 25, 1995
9:00 am
Dave Roznar
>You may be able to get by with a .1uF, 600V capacitor installed
>across the two phases in your circuit breaker box. Turn off the
>lowest amperage dual (220V) breaker in the box and attach the
>capacitor to the load screw terminals of each breaker. Or if
>space is available, add a new low amperage (the lowest you can
>find) dual breaker and attach the capacitor there. Use insulating
>tubing to cover exposed capacitor leads. Don't do this yourself
>if you do not feel competent working around electrical wiring.
Barry, could I just try to add a 0.1 mfd @600v cap across my Electric
dryer? The advantage to that is it is cord connected and can just be
unplugged while it is being "messed with". The cap can go inside the
dryer where the cord attaches.
============================================
Dave Roznar - W6TGE
Saratoga, CA
email dro...@best.com
Web-site http://www.best.com/~droznar
============================================
Dan Lanciani
| In article <34...@news.IPSWITCH.COM>, d...@harvard.edu (Dan Lanciani)
| writes:
|
| >... I originally tried the capacitor approach and, while it
| >worked most of the time for most combinations, signals tended to
| >be lost at the most awkward times......
| >.....I also tried the Leviton passive signal bridge and found it
| significantly
| >worse than a simple capacitor. There were some pairs of
| controllers/modules
| >that worked with *no* coupler but failed with the bridge connected.
|
| It pains me to defend any (evil) Leviton product, since I work for ACT
| (which also pays for this AOL account) but the X-10 manufactured 6299
| "Signal Bridge" usually does very well. The only situation that would
| almost always be detrimentally effected by the use of that (evil) Leviton
| device would be the operation of phase-to-phase receivers.
This was not the case in my situation as I have no phase-to-phase receivers.
I continue to believe that there can be a real problem in cases where there
is already significant (but not quite enough) passive coupling at the
transformer and you add a passive bridge. Unfortunately, the effort required
to thoroughly reserach the issue would cost enough to buy many repeaters. :)
Dan Lanciani
ddl@harvard.*
Barry L. Lankford
> Dan Lanciani
> ddl@harvard.*
If cancellation of the signals between utility transformer feedthrough and
phase coupler signal is the problem, you may be able to achieve better
results by reversing one pair of wires on the phase coupler. In other
words, on one side of the phase coupler connect the BLACK wire to the
neutral buss and the WHITE wire to the breaker. This should be safe
if the neutral wires (white) are isolated as the schematic shows. It
would be prudent to check with an Ohmmeter first.
By the way, since the phase coupler has tuned transformer isolation, it
is possible, I suppose, that you may get one that didn't get properly
adjusted at the factory. I haven't seen the inside of one, but you
may be able to open it up and re-tune the transformers if you get
desperate enough.
Actpccpek
Lankford) first quoted d...@harvard.edu (Dan Lanciani) who wrote:
>>I continue to believe that there can be a real problem in cases where
there
>>is already significant (but not quite enough) passive coupling at the
>>transformer and you add a passive bridge.
Then Barry wrote:
>If cancellation of the signals between utility transformer feedthrough
and
>phase coupler signal is the problem, you may be able to achieve better
>results by reversing one pair of wires on the phase coupler. In other
>words, on one side of the phase coupler connect the BLACK wire to the
>neutral buss and the WHITE wire to the breaker. This should be safe
>if the neutral wires (white) are isolated as the schematic shows. It
>would be prudent to check with an Ohmmeter first.
The (evil) Leviton 6299 signal bridge is truly isolated as is ours (ACT's
CP000). While Leviton's is (AFAIK) rated for 120vac, ours is rated for up
to 277v and can therefore be used to passively couple between two
dissimilar distributions systems (like from a 120v system to a 277v
system).
I really doubt, however that there would be any significant increase in
signal by reversing the polarity on one side. If there was already some
passive coupling through the transformer, then the additional coupling
afforded by the CP000 (or 6299), wired as originally intended, would only
add to that signal. Since I can see little probability for the original
signal to be inverted, I can see virtually no way for cancellation to
occur.
The fact remains, however, that Dan did realize significantly lower
reliability after installing the 6299 than he had with the capacitor
alone. We may never know what the exact cause is since, as Dan so
realistically put it, "... the effort required to thoroughly research the
issue would cost enough to buy many repeaters".
ACT PCC PEK -----> Phillip E. Kingery | Nothing contained herein is
| `--> Powerline Control Components | to be construed as creating
`-> Advanced Control Technologies,Inc | any liability or engineering
Opinions are based on the information | responsibility on behalf of
at hand & worth what you pay for them. | ACT. Fax# 317-337-0200 USA
October 29, 1995
4:34 pm
Gilbert Hu
In my old (small) house, I used no coupling and had no problems at all.
In my new (much larger) house, I was having trouble with the half of the
circuits that was on the other leg away from the controller. It got worse
and worse as days go by. I was debating between an expensive active
coupler or a cheaper passive one...
Then I noticed my air conditioning not working well. Then I noticed if
I turn on the stove, then my air conditioning gets better. Then I noticed
sometimes the TV turned on and off on its own. Followed by the stereo system.
(And I was not using X-10's on those devices already.)...
To keep the story short, one day I called the utility company and they
replaced a metal strip that was loose in the distribution box outside.
They paid for some of my repairs and inconveniences. I found out the
problem because when I measured the voltage on the lines inside my house
there were substantial swings coincidental with when the TVs turned off
and when the stove turned on. Basically one of the two-phase was not
supplying full voltage because of poor connection; the stove, being a
dual two-phase device, bridged the circuit when turned on.
Now that the connection is fixed, I can get my X-10s working perfectly
without any coupler.
Debbie Allen
at http://www.smarthome.com/smarthome/4815.html
Good Luck!!
Sincerely,
Deborah Allen
Home Automation Systems, Inc.
Internet Specialist
dal...@techmall.com
Mark Vodhanel
and a Act signal amplifier. The number escapes me right now, but I think
it is a 230, or something like that - single phase, 220 volts. I
originaly hooked it up with both wired as instructed, but noticed some
funny repeats with my Leviton signal strength indicator. Seemed to
indicate that the blocker was interfearing with the signal amplifier. So,
I rewired the 303 so that L1, L2, and L3 were powered by one leg, and let
the amplifier alone handle the coupling. The signal appeared to be pretty
clean this way. Is this an accepted way to install? Also, assuming that
this is ok, could I install a second 303 in the same manner to improve my
blocking? Thanks.
-MarkV
Actpccpek
I added the "(evil)", it did not appear in Mark's original post. I'm sure
that was an oversight on his part.
--------------------------------------------------------
In article <4747f8$l...@mars.earthlink.net>, Mark Vodhanel
<ma...@earthlink.net> writes:
>I wonder if you could verify for me what the acceptable way to use a
CP303,
>and a ACT signal amplifier.
Since the Coupler/Repeater (ACT p/n CR230 or the full featured CR231, with
dip-switches and other goodies and do-dads) generates signals specifically
for each leg, using any passive device with it is usually (at least, a
little) detrimental. A passive coupler (by itself) takes signal from where
you already have it and allows it to go where there isn't any. When an
active repeater has generated signal specifically for each leg, then the
addition of passive coupling tends to take that signal and put it where
you "don't" need it. This is particularly troublesome in a 120/240v
residential system since both legs are merely opposite ends of a single
phase secondary and therefore have the same zero crossing. When the
repeater generates signal specifically designed for leg "A" it also
generates signal that is specifically designed (180 degrees shift) for leg
"B". A passive coupler causes these two signals to (somewhat) cancel each
other out. The amount of this cancellation is different for each
installation.
>I originally hooked it up with both wired as instructed, but noticed
some
>funny repeats with my (evil) Leviton signal strength indicator......
If by "funny repeats" you mean that you saw the LED indicator go from off,
to a low reading, to a high reading then off again, that is correct. The
momentary low LED level (lasting only about 1/6th of a second) indicates
the signal strength of the "original" signal. Then the higher LED reading
shows the higher "repeated" signal. That is normal and what you should
see. That does not mean that you will always see that "jump". If the
original signal is too low to even show up, then all you will see is the
higher level. (If, however, your "funny repeats" did not mean that, then
I'm stumped by what you mean. Can you explain?)
>I rewired the 303 so that L1, L2, and L3 were powered by one leg, and let
>the amplifier alone handle the coupling. The signal appeared to be
pretty
>clean this way. Is this an accepted way to install?
"Accepted?" Of course. As long as its safe, meets code, does the job and
you're happy with it, its it deemed "Accepted".
>.... could I install a second 303 in the same manner to improve my
>blocking?
If you are not experiencing any cross-talk, or interference from your
neighbors, I would suggest that you stop while you're ahead. Yes, you can
install a second CP303 (around the same neutral as the first one) and
connect L1, L2 & L3 all to the other leg, but It would take a good tech
with an o-scope to see if it was worth it.
I know it is difficult to understand the effect of passive couplers (our
CP000 or the [evil] Leviton 6299), repeaters (ACT's CR230 [or one of 10
others] or the [evil] Leviton 6201) and the whole house signal
blocker/passive coupler (the CP303). Each is designed to do a specific
job and sometimes they operate at cross purposes to each other. I usually
suggest that you install only those devices that are needed. If passive
coupling is sufficient, use the CP000 (okay, the 6299 will also work), if
you need only passive coupling and blocking, use the CP303. If your
installation needs a lot stronger signal but does not need blocking, then
use a repeater (obviously, the CR230 or CR231). If it needs both blocking
and high signal levels, use both the CP303 and a repeater although each
will suffer a little by the presence of the other.
Hope this helps.
Edward Cheung
>If you purchase a 600 mF capacitor (signal bridge) this will work.
Surely you mean 600 Volt, 0.05 uF capacitor.
Actpccpek
I usually refrain from getting too "sales" oriented in the group, because
I think it is inappropriate. When offering advice, particularly when it
is apparent that a product made by my company can help, I try to offer the
basics and then ask that anyone needing more information to please email
me directly.
In order to clarify a little about ACT (and based on some of my email
lately) I felt it appropriate to post some information and clarification
about us.
Actually, over half of the products manufactured by our company (Advanced
Control Technologies, Indianapolis, IN, USA) are not X-10 related. Long
before we became involved with X-10, we made a line of interface controls
for the HVAC industry. ("We can make whatever you got, talk to whatever
you want", digital to analog, analog to pressure, pressure to analog,
etc.") All of these devices are designed and made here in Indy. These
"Interface Control Components" are known by the acronym "ICC".
Now as far as our X-10 stuff, most of our devices that are of interest to
HA guys come from the same factory in China as does the Leviton, Radio
Shack and X-10 stuff. Unlike most of the other guys, we do test incoming
shipments from China so we catch more of the bad units and therefore have
a lower field failure percentage. Because of that, we have a reputation
for having more reliable stuff. Since most of our equipment is sold
through commercial / industrial guys, they also know more about how it
works. Therefore we have less failures due to mis-installation. Because
of those two factors, we can offer a 2 year warranty.
Once we get into the higher voltages, less of our devices are made for us
by X-10 and even those that are, are made to our specs and available only
through us. The whole panel, filter-coupler (the CP303) is a good
example. What "really" sets us apart is our computer interface units (not
appropriate for HA), and our coupler/repeaters. These are all designed and
manufactured here in Indy. We now manufacture a dozen different
repeaters, some only for Canadian 347/600v 3-phase systems, some only for
Australian 240/415v 3-phase systems and some only for electric utilities.
All of our X-10 compatible devices are known as "Powerline Control
Components" and go by the acronym "PCC"
Please realize that ACT is not a distributor. We are a manufacturer .
Since we are primarily manufactures of industrial/commercial equipment, we
do not sell directly to consumers. If anyone would like a catalog,
however, please feel free to email me your "regular" mailing address and
our sales department will send it to you. Please don't ask for pricing,
as we have none to give you. Pricing is the domain of the companies that
sell our products for us. We also sell our residential stuff through some
of the more well known mail order places.
Recently, I have invited any interested party to email me for information
on a 2-day PCC technical training class to be held in Reno Nevada (USA)
next week but I have been informed that the class IS FULL (and has been
for some time, sorry). Another class is planned for Indianapolis Indiana
(USA) on January 25-26. If anyone is interested, please email your FAX
NUMBER and I will fax you an invitation and appropriate information. We
give these classes every 3 to 4 months somewhere in North America and have
also given a specially tailored version to HA groups and companies. (If
you are interested but unsure if it is appropriate for you, email me and I
will give you the email addresses of some others who have attended past
classes.)
I hope this helps clarify who we are and what we do. If not, please post
or email your questions.
ACT PCC PEK -----> Phillip E. Kingery | Nothing contained herein is