Low voltage (12v) landscape lighting, X-10, Kichler Professional Series Transformers, Multi Tap, Zones
c4miles
I am a complete newbie with respect to low voltage transformers, X-10, and this
newsgroup.
I've spent a few hours doing google searches and can not quite come up with the
answer
to my question. I've also written Kichler and am waiting for a response.
So here goes.
I want to create 3 zones of lighting in my back yard:
1. A string of lights uplighting a rock wall that runs along my driveway.
2. A couple of lights on the upper patio adjacent to the house.
3. Another string of lights on the lower patio and walkway that leads to the
walkout basement door.
Kichler sells a Professional Series Transformer (e.g.
http://store.yahoo.com/elights/30profsertra.html)
that is advertised as compatible with X-10 systems. It also has multiple taps
(12v, 13v, 14v).
I would use each of these taps for the 3 zones that I want. I would like to
control each one
of these zones individually from three separate switches located in the kitchen.
Has anyone done this? If so, how and with which products?
Russell Gellner
account for voltage drop on long runs (halogens like 12V, not happy with
less, results in shorter bulb life), not so you can have 3 different zones
of light.
But if you were to do this, an X-10 powerflash for each branch would do the
trick, just watch the current for each leg passing through the powerflash
module.
Russell
www.pre-wire.com
Ergonomic Electronics, Inc
Custom Audio/Video
Home Systems Integration
Orlando, FL
"c4miles" <noemai...@nowhere.net> wrote in message
news:3hfP6.44471$4f7.3...@bgtnsc06-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
Joe Keenan
c4miles at noemai...@nowhere.net wrote on 5/24/01 2:44 PM:
What I would do is run the output of the transformer (in parallel) to a set
of X-10 controlled relays (http://www.hometech.com/modules/relay.html) so
that each "zone" is powered by one relay (one X-10 address).
Then, in the kitchen, I would install a multi-button transmitter
(http://www.hometech.com/control/wallmnt.html) to open/close the relays.
The fact that is particular transformer is "X-10 compatable" is irrelevant
in this instance. I'm not sure what they really mean, other than (maybe) it
doesn't generate noise which interferes with X-10 signals. Which is a good
thing, actually.
Also, you don't need to run each zone off a different tap. The different
tap values are there to let you adjust the final voltage at the lamps,
depending on the number of lamps installed and the distance to them.
There's probably a worksheet included to help with that.
joe
Mark Lloyd
RGel...@worldnet.att.net says...
> The three taps are so you can get the voltage just right at the bulb to
> account for voltage drop on long runs (halogens like 12V, not happy with
> less, results in shorter bulb life), not so you can have 3 different zones
> of light.
> But if you were to do this, an X-10 powerflash
Wrong, use universal modules. Powerflash modules are for input to the X10
system, not for controlling things.
> for each branch would do the
> trick, just watch the current for each leg passing through the powerflash
> module.
>
Also, a tapped transformer lets you choose the voltage. The total current
(for all taps) must be within the transformer's limit.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://148.75.72.214
http://go.to/notstupid
Russell Gellner
> Also, a tapped transformer lets you choose the voltage.
The total current
> (for all taps) must be within the transformer's limit.
>
I was saying to keep the current through the universal module within it's
limit
Russell
Pete S.
for 12v operation AND possible to repeat the X10 signal from the 120 v mains
onto the 12 v bus.
Has anyone had any experience modifying an appliance module like this?
I have X10 all over my house and think it would be a neat project to add
some LV lighting on my property.
"Russell Gellner" <RGel...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:uuiP6.44764$4f7.3...@bgtnsc06-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
Mark Lloyd
RGel...@worldnet.att.net says...
Both have limits. The transformer has to carry the current for ALL of
those connections.
Mark Lloyd
pete56...@hotmail.com says...
> I think it may be possible (at least feasible) to modify an appliance module
> for 12v operation AND possible to repeat the X10 signal from the 120 v mains
> onto the 12 v bus.
>
That must me possible, but I don't have any idea how easy it is. Couldn't
these be LAMP modules, since they're located after the transformer, and
are loaded only by incandescent lights?
--
c4miles
"Joe Keenan" <jke...@apple.com> wrote in message
news:B733018E.2D789%jke...@apple.com...
First, thank you to all who have responded and an advance thank you to any
future
respondents. I did hear back from Kichler. I don't think that they really
thought
through my situation very carefully though, since they basically said that to do
what I wanted to do I could buy 3 transformers and control each one via X-10
on the 120v side. Not very cost effective!
Joe, I like your idea. But I have to say that I don't fully grasp it. So, if you
will
bear with me, I'd like to walk you through how I understand it, and hopefully
you can correct me.
To keep it simple, let's say that I only need to use the 12v tap on the
transformer.
I would then run 3 wires from that tap to 3 separate relays (on the 4 channel
relay
module, for example). The output sides of those 3 relays would feed my 3
lighting "zones".
Now, to control those relays, I would need to get the 2-way powerline interface
(XT-TW523)
which somehow connects to the relay module. This interface would receive
signals/messages
from a multi-button wallmount switch and pass it on to the relay module. The
X-10 addresses
for each relay are set in the TW523 interface. That is, the relay module itself
has no knowledge
of X-10 protocol. Or maybe the relay module does know X-10, but not at the
individual
"relay level"?
Also, the description of the relay module states that the relays are rated at 2
amps, 30VDC/AC.
I don't understand what that means (told you I was new to this!). Does that mean
that
it takes 30V to open/close the relays? Doesn't mean that I'm going to get 30V on
the output
side, correct?
Joe Keenan
> transformer.
> I would then run 3 wires from that tap to 3 separate relays (on the 4 channel
> relay
> module, for example). The output sides of those 3 relays would feed my 3
> lighting "zones".
> Now, to control those relays, I would need to get the 2-way powerline
> interface
> (XT-TW523)
> which somehow connects to the relay module. This interface would receive
> signals/messages
> from a multi-button wallmount switch and pass it on to the relay module. The
> X-10 addresses
> for each relay are set in the TW523 interface. That is, the relay module
> itself
> has no knowledge
> of X-10 protocol. Or maybe the relay module does know X-10, but not at the
> individual
> "relay level"?
The relay box understands the X-10 signals as provided by the TW523. You
set the addresses you want the relays to respond to on the relay box itself.
The TW523 knows the PLC protocol at the line signal layer. It converts this
to a serial signal sent to whatever's at the other end (like the relay box).
>
> Also, the description of the relay module states that the relays are rated at
> 2
> amps, 30VDC/AC.
> I don't understand what that means (told you I was new to this!). Does that
> mean
> that
> it takes 30V to open/close the relays? Doesn't mean that I'm going to get 30V
> on
> the output
> side, correct?
No, you get whatever your transformer out. The relay ratings are the MAX
they can handle (safely). It's MAX 30V, and you're only giving it 12V, so
that's fine. The amperage is a little more of any issue. These things only
handle 2A (@30VDC). I think you're going to be using more than that, so
these might not work. Need to calculate the actual load for each of your
zones to be sure.
In that case you might want to use the Leviton 6337 Universal Module. I
think it handles more amps, but I don't know for sure what it's rated for.
joe
Kent Hoult
modules, than to do
something fancy with a relay module.
The relay modules usually only handle 2 amps. At 12 VAC, this is only 24
watts or about 2 or 3 lights
depending on the bulbs. So you would need to split up all those light into
many small segments across
the number of relays. A X10 relay box is a low volume item and tends to be
pretty expensive.
The appliance modules are only $7 each, and since you only need 12V
transformers, not all the timers,
photocells, etc., you can get the cheapest ones around that will handle the
wattage per zone.
If nothing else, you could buy 3 of those cheapo light sets at the dept
store memeorial day sale.
Then keep the transformers, and use or discard the lights (if you don't want
the cheapy plastic lights).
The transformers are still probably close to 100 watt and should easily run
the lights on one zone.
-Kent-
"c4miles" <noemai...@nowhere.net> wrote in message
news:3hfP6.44471$4f7.3...@bgtnsc06-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
Pete S.
them.
"Mark Lloyd" <mll...@mail.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1577a2d19...@news-west.newscene.com...
c4miles
I think that I had a good idea. Looks like it may be ahead
of it's time. So, until someone invents the technology that
I'm looking for, I think that I'll do it the old-fashioned way:
1. Get the Kichler 300w Prof. Series Timer (I like their products, can't bear
to get the generic home center outlet stuff).
2. Mount the transformer in the basement instead of the garage.
3. Run 3 wires from the output side of one tap on the transformer feeding up
into
the kitchen where I will install three 110v SP toggle switches. Then I'll
run the
cables back down into the basement and come out through the foundation
to the lights.
"Kent Hoult" <kho...@cisco.com> wrote in message
news:990816611.85666@sj-nntpcache-5...