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Strange X10 Lamp module problem
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Art Todesco
Jan 30, 2012, 9:16:04 AM1/30/12
to
Here a new one on me. I have used X10 in my house since it came out and
have never seen this. I have 2 lamp modules plugged into the same
outlet strip. One is a stock lamp module, the other is a lamp module,
but with the solid state relay modification found on a few on-line
sites. It has worked perfectly for some time. So this modification
actually makes it a silent appliance module. But, it's still a lamp
module at heart, only the output is a little different. The are both
set to B1. The SSR modified module has 2 lamps (w/CFLs) connected to
it, hence the SSR. The other one has a heated warming blanket. Last
night, both were on and all of a sudden, both just shut down by
themselves ... this is not the strange part. After, neither would
respond to any X10 commands. I only used a wireless remote with
transceiver for testing. I probably should have tried a direct X10
command from a manual controller, but I don't think that would have made
a difference. And I never touched the transceiver, only the wireless
remote. At first I blamed the modification, as I hadn't noticed that
the unmodified module was also off, But then I discovered it too was
off and wouldn't respond either. After powering down bother modules and
re-powering, they now both work perfectly! I haven't a clue as to what
could have caused this problem. It had to be some "command" or pseudo
command (noise?). There are only 2 houses on the outside transformer.
And, we are pretty far from any neighbors making it difficult to get
rogue RF transmissions, i.e. lots in the subdivision are 3 - 4 acres.
And the one neighbor on the same transformer doesn't have or even know
what X10 is. Any ideas??
have never seen this. I have 2 lamp modules plugged into the same
outlet strip. One is a stock lamp module, the other is a lamp module,
but with the solid state relay modification found on a few on-line
sites. It has worked perfectly for some time. So this modification
actually makes it a silent appliance module. But, it's still a lamp
module at heart, only the output is a little different. The are both
set to B1. The SSR modified module has 2 lamps (w/CFLs) connected to
it, hence the SSR. The other one has a heated warming blanket. Last
night, both were on and all of a sudden, both just shut down by
themselves ... this is not the strange part. After, neither would
respond to any X10 commands. I only used a wireless remote with
transceiver for testing. I probably should have tried a direct X10
command from a manual controller, but I don't think that would have made
a difference. And I never touched the transceiver, only the wireless
remote. At first I blamed the modification, as I hadn't noticed that
the unmodified module was also off, But then I discovered it too was
off and wouldn't respond either. After powering down bother modules and
re-powering, they now both work perfectly! I haven't a clue as to what
could have caused this problem. It had to be some "command" or pseudo
command (noise?). There are only 2 houses on the outside transformer.
And, we are pretty far from any neighbors making it difficult to get
rogue RF transmissions, i.e. lots in the subdivision are 3 - 4 acres.
And the one neighbor on the same transformer doesn't have or even know
what X10 is. Any ideas??
dlh
Jan 30, 2012, 1:04:38 PM1/30/12
to
OFFs after the installation of a "Smart" Meter by various electrical
utilities in various parts of the country. All of them appear to use
LonTalk (although identifying it by the ANSI standard number) to
communicate between meters and the Data Aggregator which usually
serves all of the meters on the same transformer. It appears to affect
X10-made modules and switches (but not those made by Smarthome).
Art Todesco
Jan 31, 2012, 8:55:40 AM1/31/12
to
power company parks up at the top of the mountain and can access
everyone below. But this problem occurred at night and the modules both
appeared to lock up in the off condition, until they were power cycled.
If it were only one, ok, but 2, side by side, on the same house and
unit code? And, there were not other lockups in the entire house. Weird.
(PeteCresswell)
Jan 31, 2012, 10:23:51 AM1/31/12
to
Per dlh:
I've been beating my brains out for the better part of a year
trying to figure out why one of my modules (located in a
relatively inaccessible place) keeps getting turned on.
Until now, I've been thinking either defective module or some
neighbor using X10's on the same-lettered scheme.
--
Pete Cresswell
>There have been many reports of sudden plagues of random ONs and/or
>OFFs after the installation of a "Smart" Meter by various electrical
>utilities in various parts of the country. All of them appear to use
>LonTalk (although identifying it by the ANSI standard number) to
>communicate between meters and the Data Aggregator which usually
>serves all of the meters on the same transformer. It appears to affect
>X10-made modules and switches (but not those made by Smarthome).
Just to make sure: would it affect hard-wired X10 modules?
>OFFs after the installation of a "Smart" Meter by various electrical
>utilities in various parts of the country. All of them appear to use
>LonTalk (although identifying it by the ANSI standard number) to
>communicate between meters and the Data Aggregator which usually
>serves all of the meters on the same transformer. It appears to affect
>X10-made modules and switches (but not those made by Smarthome).
I've been beating my brains out for the better part of a year
trying to figure out why one of my modules (located in a
relatively inaccessible place) keeps getting turned on.
Until now, I've been thinking either defective module or some
neighbor using X10's on the same-lettered scheme.
--
Pete Cresswell
dlh
Jan 31, 2012, 2:37:52 PM1/31/12
to
specifically but I suspect they are as vulnerable as the others.
dlh
Jan 31, 2012, 4:22:51 PM1/31/12
to
problems and it's not only when the meter is being read.
Art Todesco
Feb 1, 2012, 9:08:31 AM2/1/12
to
voltage drops from heat pump motors starting that are not in my house
.... most likely, the guy across the street on the same transformer.
But, X10 had been really clean. Much cleaner than in my old house in
suburban Chicago (for X10, that is). I have called Duke for voltages
going high, like 125 -130 volts. When I called them, they immediately
said it was their problem and corrected it within an hour or so. But,
over the months, it has crept up again, to about 120, which I guess is
ok. I think it crept up because others on the same feed complained
about low voltage and they corrected it the easy way. BTW, at 123 volts
or so, I've had some electronic equipment get squirrelly. That's what
made me start looking at voltages.
T. Keating
Feb 1, 2012, 2:30:37 PM2/1/12
to
On Tue, 31 Jan 2012 08:55:40 -0500, Art Todesco <acto...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
1. The Noise could be code dependant.. switching to different
module/house code.
2. I have found that certain motion activated or dusk/dawn light
(inside or outside) control units often generate lots of RF line
noise.. Ergo the problem shows up at after dusk.
3. Any of the cheaply made non-fcc approved, ac to dc walwarts could
make lot's of RF noise.. (Start up-plugging things, or flipping
breakers.)
wrote:
module/house code.
2. I have found that certain motion activated or dusk/dawn light
(inside or outside) control units often generate lots of RF line
noise.. Ergo the problem shows up at after dusk.
3. Any of the cheaply made non-fcc approved, ac to dc walwarts could
make lot's of RF noise.. (Start up-plugging things, or flipping
breakers.)
dlh
Feb 1, 2012, 2:44:08 PM2/1/12
to
similar devices made by others but still using LonTalk). I think there
is one per transformer and they act as a router with the ability to
query the meters, shed loads, etc. and send usage data to the central
office over the powerlines. They may not have implemented all of the
features initially. In the Cincinnati area numerous X10 users have
seen random turn-ons which appear to be caused by very high amplitude
86kHz signals from the data concentrators. Duke has told one person
that Echelon is working on a filter that they will try at his
residence when received.
http://www.echelon.com/metering/nes_dc.htm
Jeff Volp has found a combination of clamp-on ferrites plus a filter
across the two hot legs that also seems to filter the signals.
I suspect it's the amplitude (which rises in response to "noise") of
the signals that is causing the problem, acting like spikes which X10
has acknowledged causes similar issues. In two cases, people
experiencing the problem found that Smarthome made X-10 modules set to
the same address appeared to be immune. This was, however, a very
small sample size so YMMV.
This may or may not be the cause of your issue but I think it's
worthwhile for all X10 users to be aware of it with the nationwide
rollout of smart meters.
I live across the river from Cincinnati and my area was an early test
area for Duke about 5 years ago. I saw no X-10 issues (most of my gear
is not X10-made) but did have some inexpensive appliances with
electronic controls go berserk.
Art Todesco
Feb 3, 2012, 8:10:32 AM2/3/12
to
>>>> We have an RF reading electric meter in this house. The guy from the
>>>> power company parks up at the top of the mountain and can access
>>>> everyone below. But this problem occurred at night and the modules both
>>>> appeared to lock up in the off condition, until they were power cycled.
>>>> If it were only one, ok, but 2, side by side, on the same house and
>>>> unit code? And, there were not other lockups in the entire house. Weird
>
>>>> power company parks up at the top of the mountain and can access
>>>> everyone below. But this problem occurred at night and the modules both
>>>> appeared to lock up in the off condition, until they were power cycled.
>>>> If it were only one, ok, but 2, side by side, on the same house and
>>>> unit code? And, there were not other lockups in the entire house. Weird
>
could not be turned back on, until I power cycled the modules. And, in
my area, Duke uses an RF system to read the meters. I talked to the
Duke guy, whose son lives in my subdivision, and he said that he goes to
the highest point and reads all the meters below, from his truck. He
actually changed out my meter because it was not the proper type that
could be read from his RF reader. Also, this happened at night, maybe
10PM, when I seriously doubt that he was doing any meter reads.
Josepi
Feb 7, 2012, 10:20:25 PM2/7/12
to
When a lamp gets turned off the impedance of the house circuit increases and
the noise can be higher at the unit than if the circuit had more load on it.
Standing waves and reflections can increase the amplitude of the noise when
unloaded.
I always had problems with my wireless X10 units. They would think they
heard signals and repeat them. Usually all lights on signals would happen or
they would lock up and send continuous noise locking up the system.
Many smart meter systems send signals regularly and intermittently to the
other smart meters so that the master data gatherer can access meters
"hidden" from where it sits. Number of data jumps can be limited in the
meter software as that can also lock up the network by perpetual repeats of
data bouncing around.
---------
"Art Todesco" wrote in message news:jggmd4$h62$3...@speranza.aioe.org...
the noise can be higher at the unit than if the circuit had more load on it.
Standing waves and reflections can increase the amplitude of the noise when
unloaded.
I always had problems with my wireless X10 units. They would think they
heard signals and repeat them. Usually all lights on signals would happen or
they would lock up and send continuous noise locking up the system.
Many smart meter systems send signals regularly and intermittently to the
other smart meters so that the master data gatherer can access meters
"hidden" from where it sits. Number of data jumps can be limited in the
meter software as that can also lock up the network by perpetual repeats of
data bouncing around.
---------
"Art Todesco" wrote in message news:jggmd4$h62$3...@speranza.aioe.org...
Robert Green
Feb 23, 2012, 9:20:27 PM2/23/12
to
"(PeteCresswell)" <x...@y.Invalid> wrote in message
news:co1gi7l8ncblvuem5...@4ax.com...
--
Bobby G.
news:co1gi7l8ncblvuem5...@4ax.com...
> Per dlh:
> >There have been many reports of sudden plagues of random ONs and/or
> >OFFs after the installation of a "Smart" Meter by various electrical
> >utilities in various parts of the country. All of them appear to use
> >LonTalk (although identifying it by the ANSI standard number) to
> >communicate between meters and the Data Aggregator which usually
> >serves all of the meters on the same transformer. It appears to affect
> >X10-made modules and switches (but not those made by Smarthome).
>
> Just to make sure: would it affect hard-wired X10 modules?
>
> I've been beating my brains out for the better part of a year
> trying to figure out why one of my modules (located in a
> relatively inaccessible place) keeps getting turned on.
What's plugged into it?
> >There have been many reports of sudden plagues of random ONs and/or
> >OFFs after the installation of a "Smart" Meter by various electrical
> >utilities in various parts of the country. All of them appear to use
> >LonTalk (although identifying it by the ANSI standard number) to
> >communicate between meters and the Data Aggregator which usually
> >serves all of the meters on the same transformer. It appears to affect
> >X10-made modules and switches (but not those made by Smarthome).
>
> Just to make sure: would it affect hard-wired X10 modules?
>
> I've been beating my brains out for the better part of a year
> trying to figure out why one of my modules (located in a
> relatively inaccessible place) keeps getting turned on.
--
Bobby G.
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