CM11A dead ?
Stefano Bodini
I'm trying to determine what happened to my CM11A.
After 5 years of work (more or less fine ...) suddenly my CM11A
decided to have some vacation ...
Simply all the macro/timers/ecc. programmed in the CM11A wont work
anymore.
So I started some tests.
Is not a lookup problem or similar, the connection with the Pc is
working always fine, I can download/upload macro and timers, the clock
is fine, everything is ok.
But simply no X10 packets are sent on the power line.
So I created a little test environment where I connected locally the
CM11A, a Appliance module (AM486) and a remote center (Plug'n power
radio shack).
I set up an unused house code for the tests (K) and I discovered that
the CM11A is able to see X10 commands but not able to send them.
I placed some searches with google but I not find nothing similar to
my problem.
I believe that something is burn out in my unit but before to just
speriment (open the unit) I wonder if somebody has some
hints/schemtics/experiences about that.
Thanks in advance for any help/suggestions
C'ya
Steve
Jack Ak
All is normal with this CM11A except it won't send X10 commands.
FWIW, the date code is 9D18.
The fix is to replace it with a new CM11A.
"Stefano Bodini" <sxbo...@freemail.it> wrote in message news:9q5hqucjk4jebupvi...@4ax.com...
Stefano Bodini
>FWIW, the date code is 9D18.
Mine 7C10
>The fix is to replace it with a new CM11A.
I imagined that ... but since the CM11A is not designed by an alien
entity (at least I hope so :) ) and since the components used are more
or less available on the market, I wonder if is not possible to try to
fix it.
Before to start from the scracth I wonder if somebody else at least
tried to do something like that.
Anyway good to know that I'm not alone with this kind of problems :)
C'ya
Steve
(I wish to replace it with an Ocelot but I don't have money now :( ..
and I can also design my own controller but I don't have time ...)
Jack Ak
a replacement PIC. Once you figure out how to obtain and put
microcode into that device, you can replace the tunable inductors
if the failure symptom hasn't changed with replacement of the PIC.
According to Murphy, device failures are not caused by easily replaced parts.
"Stefano Bodini" <sxbo...@freemail.it> wrote in message news:qeahqu06unq0hcgou...@4ax.com...
> "Jack Ak" <ak2...@excite.com> wrote:
>
> >FWIW, the date code is 9D18.
>
> Mine 7C10
>
> >The fix is to replace it with a new CM11A.
>
> I imagined that ... but since the CM11A is not designed by an alien
> entity (at least I hope so :) ) and since the components used are more
> or less available on the market, I wonder if is not possible to try to
> fix it.
> Before to start from the scracth I wonder if somebody else at least
> tried to do something like that.
>
> Anyway good to know that I'm not alone with this kind of problems :)
>
...
Stefano Bodini
>Rather than simply replacing all the common parts, start with
>a replacement PIC. Once you figure out how to obtain and put
>microcode into that device,
:-)
I don't see problem to replace the Pic, nor to program a new one ...
having the code :)
Is true that the Pic is still ok since the Rs232 protocol is working
and since the unit is still able to receive X10 commands (and report
them out).
So I can guess that the problem should not be on the line interface
area since this one should be in common between Tx and Rx.
Maybe is a transistor on the Tx that is burn out ... or (if Murphy
docet) just a pin of the Pic.
So if nobody has a schematic of this beast probably is a good time to
try to design one.
>you can replace the tunable inductors
>if the failure symptom hasn't changed with replacement of the PIC.
But this part should be in common for Tx and Rx ... since the unit
receive ...
>According to Murphy, device failures are not caused by easily replaced parts.
Agreed :)
C'ya
Steve
Dave Matthews
failed at one time or another. I really dig the remote control that
comes bundled with the package however. I now use an Ocelot and have
had no problems (Ocelot related) at all. I have an consulting associate
who has used a CM11A for about two years now with no problems
whatsoever, except he cant get WinXP to talk to it <g>. I would suggest
not buying another CM11A, trying to repair it is a worthy venture
however if you want to spend the time. The Ocelot seems quite reliable
IMHO. I would advise those whose time is more valuable than the price
of replacement to invest in an Ocelot, just my opinion.
As a matter of interest in regards to my previous post about the Maytag
dishwasher disturbing the X-10 signal, when the dishwasher is actually
running, no X-10 problems exit. Real fun!
Dave
Stefano Bodini
>IMHO. I would advise those whose time is more valuable than the price
>of replacement to invest in an Ocelot, just my opinion.
And I agree with you ... simply I don't have 200$ to spend in an
Ocelot right now and even in the worst case a new CM11A doesn't cost
so much.
So probably IF I can't find suggestions/hints/ecc. able to help me to
try to repair the unit I have, my second chance will be to buy a new
activehome kit (since the price of the only CM11A is very close to the
kit) or ... stop to have some kind of automation.
I already considered the possibility to design and build a controller
but I don't have time and resources now to invest in this project.
Thanks
Steve
Dave Houston
There is a partial schematic of the CM11A here...
http://home.pacbell.net/lgalvin/CM11AX-10a.gif
There's also a writeup on fixing an overheating CM11A here...
http://www.geocities.com/ido_bartana/CM11Aoverheating.htm
One or the other may help.
---
http://www.laser.com/dhouston/bx24-pcb.htm
Mike
I don't know about the "can't send signals" problem, but most of my X10
repairs have been to replace a burned out zener diode (power supply).
You may get lucky and actually see the bad (burnt?) part(s).
FYI, I saw about 6 ActiveHome kits on Ebay for around $25 (searched "CM11A"
in descriptions).
Best of luck!
Mike
"Stefano Bodini" <sxbo...@freemail.it> wrote in message
news:9q5hqucjk4jebupvi...@4ax.com...
Stefano Bodini
>Have you opened it up and had a look yet?
Yes
>I don't know about the "can't send signals" problem, but most of my X10
>repairs have been to replace a burned out zener diode (power supply).
This seems ok and since the unit actually receive X10 signals and
report on the RS232 the status probably the power supply is ok .. or
maybe not enough ok to send out signals ... I will try to check more
in deep also the power.
Thanks for the tip.
>FYI, I saw about 6 ActiveHome kits on Ebay for around $25 (searched "CM11A"
>in descriptions).
I saw them ... I tried some bids but for all the final price is around
40-45$ (including expenses/fees/ecc.). At the end I can buy a new one
from X10 for the same price (more or less) with less pain :)
Thanks !
C'ya
Steve
Stefano Bodini
>There is a partial schematic of the CM11A here...
Thanks ! A very good starting point.
>There's also a writeup on fixing an overheating CM11A here...
Yep, indeed.
Thank you very much !
C'ya
Steve
Dave Matthews
CM11A, one of the three defective CM11A's that fill my junk bin had the
overheating mod, still upon occasion it would freak out and in the end
was discarded for the sake of reliability. Hopefully you will have
better luck than I did.
Dave
Dave Houston
the descriptions of some of the components might help along with John
Galvin's partial schematic.
In fact, I think it's a classic case of treating the symptom instead of the
problem. The cure for the overheating CM11A should be to eliminate the
defective dimmer.
Dave Matthews <da...@lostfrogs.com> wrote:
Dave Matthews
subject before. I wonder how much it would cost to send these defective
units to Stefano, maybe he could use the parts <g>.
Dave
Stefano Bodini
>was discarded for the sake of reliability. Hopefully you will have
>better luck than I did.
It's juts matter to identify the problem .. if possible.
My unit had the overheat problem (about 3 years ago) and I solved
eliminating the dimmer, but the modifications suggested by Dave H. I
think make sense anyway.
But most of all give me some inside of the CM11A (the analysis
performed by Steve Miller is simply wonderful).
In these years I just stopped my curiosity about it in order to use
the unit .. now I don't have choice than try to fix it :)
Anyway ... as soon as I have some data I will post here the results.
I'm preparing the environment test to do some measurements, and now
with a part of schematics I can do something.
Thanks to all !!
C'ya
Steve
Stefano Bodini
>subject before. I wonder how much it would cost to send these defective
>units to Stefano, maybe he could use the parts <g>.
Wait ! :)
Let me do some tests before to decide if is worth having some special
parts from other units :)
I still don't think inside there are so strange components to be
impossible to buy them new somewhere :)
The only critical part is the PIC, or better, the code inside the Pic.
Anyway ... good to know to have a choice :)
C'ya
Steve
Dave Houston
toward repetitive failures in the same location. I think this points to
something (?) in those environments.
But it does make sense to do an organ harvest of the failed units to help
others whose units may have failed differently. That's the only source for
PICs.
Dave Matthews <da...@lostfrogs.com> wrote:
Richard Nielsen
guess that the 120kHz signal is not reaching the powerline. The reason for
this could be that the PIC does not toggle the transistor switch to the
120kHz generator or the the transistor switch is fried.
It should be relatively easy to find the pin on the PIC that toggles the
transitor switch and ..... well follow the trace all the way to the
powerline. REMEMBER that the power line is very dangerous to play so if you
are not sure what you are dealing with DO NO DO IT!!
Ok that's my two cents (european = 1.8 cents)
/Richard
"Stefano Bodini" <sxbo...@freemail.it> wrote in message
news:9q5hqucjk4jebupvi...@4ax.com...
Stefano Bodini
>Well I do not have a schematic for the CM11A but by your description I would
>guess that the 120kHz signal is not reaching the powerline. The reason for
>this could be that the PIC does not toggle the transistor switch to the
>120kHz generator or the the transistor switch is fried.
Slowly but I'm doing some tests.
The power supply is ok, and the Pic is alive and generate the X10
signal .. so I'm pointing the finger toward some transistors.
Since the unit is able to receive X10 signals (and report them to the
RS232) the transformers should be ok.
I'm trying to find some spare parts to do some tests ... sure is a
mess inside the CM11A .. the board is very populated and some
components are soldered over other components !
It is required al lot of patience :)
>powerline. REMEMBER that the power line is very dangerous to play so if you
>are not sure what you are dealing with DO NO DO IT!!
Thanks for the advice, I'm habit to work on electronic appliances,
also with the ones under power line, and I am very very very careful.
Fortunatly working with the CM11A is more easy than other X10 toys :)
At least we have a main transformer ;)
C'ya
Steve
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Stefano Bodini
>There is a partial schematic of the CM11A here...
>
> http://home.pacbell.net/lgalvin/CM11AX-10a.gif
Hi !
Just to say that I found the bastard :)
Was the 2sD667, replaced now with a normal high voltage NPN (I had
around a MPS44A Motorola).
The interface seems work just good as new ...
A note ... the Pcb where the transistor is placed is very close to the
transformer.
The pcb is pretty damaged ... more exactly is "cooked" and actually a
piece of Pcb come out removing the transistor.
Is possible that some old "heat problems" (that I had on this unit)
damaged Pcb and/or transistor.
So with the referring schematic (thanks again !!!) the problem was
around the 2SD667 (Q7).
Thanks again to all for the suggestions.
C'ya
Steve
Dave Matthews
others...
Dave
Stefano Bodini
>Far-out Steve, congratulations!
Thanks !
>I'll keep my CM11A corpses for
>others...
Halloween is close :)
C'ya
Steve