X-10 RF home automation being overwhelmed by M2 OFF, C2 OFF and Gxx DIM signals
Robert Green
Slowly but surely, my X-10 RF reception is being knocked out by endless
streams of these commands broadcast on different days at different times.
M2 OFFs
C2 OFFs
Gxx DIMs
At first, when only C2 OFFs appeared, I searched in vain for a stuck
transmitter button or some other internal cause. I could find none. The
problem occurred with TM751's, the WGL all-house code unit and with RR501's,
too. Setting the WGL to ignore those three housecodes was all but useless -
the constant strong signal overwhelmed any X-10 transmitter not within a
foot or less of the transceiver. This interference started out slowly over
time, and now forces me to shutdown the RF section of my X-10 system almost
daily.
I'm in the Washington, DC area. Has anyone else seen anything similar? Any
ideas where to look for the transmission source. Could the RF signal "ride"
the powerlines that an X-10 transmitter could receive? Even putting the
receiver in a metal coffee can doesn't seem to point to a potential source
of the signal. It seems to be very uniformly distributed throughout the
house. If I can't get it to stop, I'll have to hardwire a lot of things I'd
rather not. )-:
TIA for any help.
--
Bobby G.
Tony Hwang
Hi,
Maybe you are getting RFI from other RF source nearby?
dlh
wrote:
If you could capture the raw RF signal using the techniques shown on
my website it might help identify the source.
http://davehouston.org/learn.htm
Who supplies your electricity? Have they recently installed new meters
that can be read remotely? I've seen a few reports of problems from
some metering systems although nothing similar to what you are
experiencing.
Is there any pattern as to when it occurs?
The Daring Dufas
Back in the late 1980's I was working and living in the country of
Californiastan when the community I was in at the time started having
problems with their electric garage doors opening and closing as if
possessed by some evil door opener. It turned out that the US Navy
was testing the big search radars on some ships in the bay. Those big
powerful radars were producing an RF harmonic signal that was just right
to screw with the RF remote controls for a lot of openers. :-)
TDD
Robert Green
"Robert Green" <robert_green1...@yah00.com> wrote:
http://davehouston.org/learn.htm
I will look into that. I assume I'll need one of these:
<<Radiotronix RCR-315-RP (Mouser P/N 509-RCR-315-RP) which can be tuned to
cover approximately 300-330MHz>>
and that I am looking for signal in the 315MHz range. One odd thing I have
noticed. When these waves of commands hit, Jeff Volp's XTBM meter shows the
frequency of the signal as lower that 100Khz which I thought odd since it
only happens when an RF transceiver is on line. Why would RF noise show up
as a lower than normal frequency signal being output to the powerline?
<Who supplies your electricity? Have they recently installed new meters
that can be read remotely?>
No, but now that you mention it, they have instituted a program where you
can save $160 by letting them install a box on your CAC that allows them to
shut it off in a brownout. I had never thought of that correlation before
because the timing seemed so random but it could be that the signals appear
whenever they want to turn off people's AC. FWIW, it's in the 70's today
and there's no interference. Geez, I hope you're wrong but I think you're
right. If they wanted to make sure those AC's stayed off, they would just
transmit an OFF signal while the brownout lasted although you'd think one
command would suffice.
It came on before the hurricane and stayed on throughout the event (at least
for the time I had power). I will have to scan through my Homevision logs
and extract the durations and occurrences of these events. They did show up
shortly after I got my first "sign up" postcard.
If that's the source of the signal, could it be RF carried over the
powerline at 315MHz? My understanding of the X-10 whole house filter is
that I might be able to stop powerline infiltration of such a control
signal, but RF's going to require *their* cooperations.
<<I've seen a few reports of problems from some metering systems although
nothing similar to what you are experiencing.>>
I've been searching Google for quite some time and no one seems to be having
these particular problems. But I *know* there are a lot of X-10 users in
the DC area. If it's system-wide, someone else has to be seeing this. Five
different RF transceivers all show the same symptoms. Endless streams of
the same commands.
<<Is there any pattern as to when it occurs?>>
I will have to examine my Homevision log files to give you an answer. I've
now got the RF powerline coupler plugged into an appliance module that I
shut down whenever I detect a runaway stream of RF. But it's mighty
inconvenient and doesn't tell me exactly how long the storm lasts. But it
does tell me when it begins. I may be tempted to set up a line voltage
monitor to see if I can correlate the runaway commands with any potential
brownout conditions.
What do you think my chances of getting to someone at Pepco who has any idea
what I am talking about are?
Thanks for the input, Dave. Hope all as well as can be hoped for.
I guess I'll start logfile processing. X-10, the electronics detective's
hobby.
BTW, is there a suitable RF unit I can scavenge from a X10 transceiver? I
think I have at least a dozen assorted TM751's and quite a few RR501s and a
coupla CM15As that are not in use or likely to be.
I assume it will take an oscilloscope to see if the signal is actually
coming through the powerline or is being broadcast from local transmitters.
I have a slight fear that if I ask the power company anything about it,
they'll think I want to jam or defeat the signal and turn me in to Homeland
Security. Hey, stranger things have happened! (-:
FWIW, here are the binary representation of the three unwanted commands:
C2 OFF 01000000 00110000
M2 OFF 00000000 00110000
G DIM 005 10100000 10011000
C2 and M2 off differ by one bit. G Dim XX by slightly more.
--
Bobby G.
Robert Green
news:j3gi0g$89e$1...@dont-email.me...
<stuff snipped>
>
> Back in the late 1980's I was working and living in the country of
> Californiastan when the community I was in at the time started having
> problems with their electric garage doors opening and closing as if
> possessed by some evil door opener. It turned out that the US Navy
> was testing the big search radars on some ships in the bay. Those big
> powerful radars were producing an RF harmonic signal that was just right
> to screw with the RF remote controls for a lot of openers. :-)
Yes, I was aware of them. Lutron's Radio RA system had to add a second RF
channel in NYC because of interference from a source that wasn't going away.
Read: government.
We just had a round of that a few years ago near DC at Andrews AFB and
others in Denver had the same problem. I know that two military research
labs nearby (I live between the two on almost a perfect straight line are
tasked with IED jammer development so I wouldn't be surprised if the signal
correlated with elevated threat levels. The DC area is as the Pentagon says
"target rich environment."
But in reality I think Dave is probably onto the real source: The local
power company has just instituted a program where they hook a receiver/relay
between your AC and the powerline. In brownouts, they can shut your AC off
remotely. I was going to apply for it because we don't use our CAC anymore
and have switched to window ACs, but that seemed to be cheating so I decided
not to.
The "blips" started appearing a month or two ago, when summer began. They
are not there today, with the temps in the cool, dry 70's (the benefit of a
hurricane - wonderful, cool, clean air for a day or afterwards). Now I have
to download some temperature data and try to correlate that with the times
the bogies appear in my Homevision log file (records all externally
generated commands to log file). The days of endless bogies generate huge
log files, 100 to 1000 times the normal size.
--
Bobby G.
dlh
everything without any quoted text.
It's unlikely but possible that it's coming in via the powerlines.
Your reading with Jeff Volp's device is _probably_ reporting the
translated PLC command although I cannot think of a reason for the
lower frequency. The transceivers tend to have very wide RF bandwidth
and PLC receivers do as well, usually reacting to signals in the
75-200kHz range. There was something a few years back, which I dubbed
the "Endless Dim Syndrome" where the valid 120kHz was being radiated
by the in-wall wiring and inductively coupling to TM751s (mostly) via
their antenna. It was fairly easy to induce by aligning the antenna
with the wiring. However, only Dims & Brights were reported by the
victims. The TM751 was apparently cheating, assuming that any further
RF meant the remote was still sending and the poor design of the RF
receiver allowed it to respond to the lower frequency. Recent TM751s
use the same high-quality RF receiver used by the CM15A but I have no
idea when that change occured.
You can steal the RF receiver daughterboard from a TM751 but I'm not
sure I recall the connections. The RF receiver daughterboard in the
CM15A is much better but I'd hate to see you cannibalize a CM15A. The
315MHz receiver is the one, should you go that way - turn the tuning
slug 1/8T CCW and you'll be close enough.
You should be able to find a freeware/shareware oscilloscope program
that uses the soundcard. It's easier than the methods in my article
which was written long ago.
The decoded bits don't tell me what I want to know. It may be that the
codes are actually longer and the X-10 receivers are just grabbing the
first 32 bits - I never thought to test whether that was possible.
But, if the codes are longer, we can possibly rule out an X-10 source
(some X-10 security codes are longer). Of course, X-10's limited range
probably rules out a nearby source. X-10 uses NEC's IR code which
dates back 40+ years and has been copied with slight modifications by
many others. I haven't encountered any others using it for RF but I've
been occupied elsewhere (several surgeries and other hospitalizations)
over the past 18 months or so. We might learn something from the raw
codes. And, if it is a high-power source, it may just be overwhelming
the receivers as those military tests a few years back did to the
garage doors which normally only respond to rolling codes (different
with each transmission).
Pepco is unlikely to be helpful unless you reach the right person.
Duke's regional engineer came to investigate an issue I had a couple
of years ago and he was quite sharp but the ones I talked to before he
came by were clueless.
IIRC, some folks on the West Coast were having some X-10 issues with a
specific smart electric meter. I don't recall details. I think there
was a discussion (with Jeff Volp's participation) on the X-10
Community Forums. Duke Energy installed Excellon meters here a couple
of years back. I've seen no X-10 issues but have had two (different
brand) inexpensive 700W microwaves lose their minds - beeping randomly
and flashing or clearing the displays. I've suspected the new smart
meters might have been outputting something that got by any filters
the microwaves might have had. I now have a 1000W Haier Grill/
Convection/Microwave combo that seems immune (so far).
The Daring Dufas
I'm an old broadcast engineer/two way radio tech and I had to track down
RF interference all the time. My friend who worked for the local
power company as an electrical engineer in charge of their
communications told me that back in the 1970's they were tracking down
a lot of RF interference caused by doorbell transformers. I have an
idea that today's proliferation of "Wall Warts" could be responsible
for a lot of RF and power line borne interference. It's something to
consider.
TDD
dlh
see whether it is a widespread phenomenon or centered on your
residence.
hr(bob) hofmann@att.net
You need a specialst in Electromagnetic Compatibility (EMC) There is
an IEEE EMC chapter in DC/Northern Virginia that has experts in
tracking down your problem. Try contacting Mike Violette and see if
he knows of someone who lives close to wherever you live. Please tell
him that aI referred you to him. If Mike can't help you, you might
try to find an amatuer radio operator who lives nearby, they are also
good at tracking down stray radio signals.
WASHINGTON / NORTHERN VIRGINIA IEEE EMC Society Chapter Chairman
Term: 1-1-2008, 12-31-2011
Mike Violette
Washington Labs Ltd
7560 Lindbergh Dr.
Gaithersburg MD 20879-5414
Phone: +1 301-417-0220
Fax: +1 301-417-9069
mi...@wll.com
bob haller
liked.other channels werent affected
traced to my new remote control motion detector lamp. it was junk
quality i tossed it in the trash
put a offending XM on a UPS, see if its still spazing, then unplug
from line, and check again.
if it spazes on a unplugged UPS you know its radio interference.
a local ham club radio amatuers may be happy to help you find the cause
jamesgangnc
I don't know xm10 all that well. Seems like it never really took
off. There isn't a unit id in the command stream? How does each unit
know it's the target?
bud--
Doorbell transformers sound really bizarre as a source of RF. Somebody
at a.h.r tracked down a source that says it is from contacts that
disconnect the transformer when the current is too high for a class 2
(limited energy) transformer. (Or something like that.) Contacts would
repeatedly open (with arcing) and close.
My guess is that class 2 AC-out wall warts are "impedance protected",
which most doorbell transformers probably are now. At too high a current
the voltage just droops.
My guess is that DC wall warts are the same, or the DC side has a
current limit circuit. Are they switch-mode these days? Wouldn't think
switch-mode would be worse than other switch-mode power supplies found
all over the place.
jamesgangnc
> On 8/29/2011 8:48 PM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 8/29/2011 3:01 PM, Robert Green wrote:
>
> - Show quoted text -
The transistion from transformer to switched has mostly happened but
there are a lot of existing transformer ones floating around still in
use. I like the switched ones because most work on anything from 100
to 240vac. Sure makes travel easier.
Josepi
three of my seven go bad so far.
They will "heal" themselves and then start again later.
-----------
"Robert Green" wrote in message news:j3g6ej$kko$2...@dont-email.me...
Bob F
I've had immemse interference from certain CFL bulbs.
Robert Green
> everything without any quoted text.
group and for some reason, the flags weren't updating. Since it's been so
long since you wrote this, I feel forced to quote so that my comments make
at least *some* sense.
The latest information I have is that for the 5 days preceding 9-11 the
interference was continuous. The codes received were either M2 or C2 OFFs,
no Gxx DIMs were received. Now it's gone. Completely. Nothing since the
day after 9-11. Of course, the weather has turned cool so if it's a signal
to shut off air conditioners enrolled in the anti-brownout program,. it may
just not be transmitted anymore. I still suspect an anti-IED transmission
of some kind, especially because of the nearly solid coverage for the 5 days
leading up to the anniversary.
Rather than play RF Sherlock Ohms, I punted and took a box of
mini-controllers that I got at closeout for $3 each and began to modify them
so that I could use them for housecodes 9-16. Why they limited those units
to only the first 8 housecodes is a mystery to me. I've basically replaced
all the RF transmitters like the "sticka" switches with the
mini-transceivers as an ugly temporary measure but they have EXTREMELY low
SAF. One benefit is that switch response time is noticeable quicker not
having to be translated from RF to PLC.
> It's unlikely but possible that it's coming in via the powerlines.
> Your reading with Jeff Volp's device is _probably_ reporting the
> translated PLC command although I cannot think of a reason for the
> lower frequency. The transceivers tend to have very wide RF bandwidth
> and PLC receivers do as well, usually reacting to signals in the
> 75-200kHz range. There was something a few years back, which I dubbed
> the "Endless Dim Syndrome" where the valid 120kHz was being radiated
> by the in-wall wiring and inductively coupling to TM751s (mostly) via
> their antenna. It was fairly easy to induce by aligning the antenna
> with the wiring. However, only Dims & Brights were reported by the
> victims. The TM751 was apparently cheating, assuming that any further
> RF meant the remote was still sending and the poor design of the RF
> receiver allowed it to respond to the lower frequency. Recent TM751s
> use the same high-quality RF receiver used by the CM15A but I have no
> idea when that change occured.
by using X-10 filter modules, but they only block 120kHz so that wouldn't
work. I needed to make sure that the filter caught a much higher frequency,
in the 315mHz so I gave up on that. My limited testing showed that the
interference was strong enough to inhibit proper operation of transceivers
set to housecodes other than the interfering ones, so I was not too sanguine
about doing serious detective work on the assumption that even if I found
the offender, convincing them to turn it off might be futile. I'd also hate
to have HLS think I was trying to build some sort of IED immune to
interference and was fishing for information about how to do that. (-:
(FWIW, I recently read that in Iraq that terrorists have started to use IR
line of sight IED's to overcome the jamming.
> You can steal the RF receiver daughterboard from a TM751 but I'm not
> sure I recall the connections. The RF receiver daughterboard in the
> CM15A is much better but I'd hate to see you cannibalize a CM15A. The
> 315MHz receiver is the one, should you go that way - turn the tuning
> slug 1/8T CCW and you'll be close enough.
to this whole problem is that the Smarthome Control MaxiLinc all housecode
PLC controllers have an LED that flashes with X-10 traffic. When the M2/C2
OFF demon strikes, they all start flashing like crazy (in addition to the
X-10 RF and PLC basically stopping working). I have the WGL on an old RR501
set to an unused housecode. When the storm starts, I just turn off the RF
completely by hitting the manual control button on the RR501. If I try long
enough, I can even get an RF command to the unit remotely to shut off all RF
except that one RR501. A kludge, but a workable one. My attempts to detect
the "broadcast storm" indicator that Jeff's XTB-IIR emits when there's a
broadcast storm with HomeVision were of limited success because of HV's
inability to detect and react to the P Status Off request.
> You should be able to find a freeware/shareware oscilloscope program
> that uses the soundcard. It's easier than the methods in my article
> which was written long ago.
> The decoded bits don't tell me what I want to know. It may be that the
> codes are actually longer and the X-10 receivers are just grabbing the
> first 32 bits - I never thought to test whether that was possible.
> But, if the codes are longer, we can possibly rule out an X-10 source
> (some X-10 security codes are longer). Of course, X-10's limited range
> probably rules out a nearby source. X-10 uses NEC's IR code which
> dates back 40+ years and has been copied with slight modifications by
> many others. I haven't encountered any others using it for RF but I've
> been occupied elsewhere (several surgeries and other hospitalizations)
> over the past 18 months or so. We might learn something from the raw
> codes. And, if it is a high-power source, it may just be overwhelming
> the receivers as those military tests a few years back did to the
> garage doors which normally only respond to rolling codes (different
> with each transmission).
a TW523 attached. I couldn't find a location where the signal was too weak
to receive, so it's either riding the wire or it's being broadcast at a much
higher power than normal X-10 RF tranmissions from a location far enough
away so that it wouldn't appear directionally oriented (at least with my
primitive 100' cord setup - a directional antenna attached to the WGL was
one of the next things I was going to try.
> Pepco is unlikely to be helpful unless you reach the right person.
> Duke's regional engineer came to investigate an issue I had a couple
> of years ago and he was quite sharp but the ones I talked to before he
> came by were clueless.
HV logs for dates and times when the problem occurred. That got complicated
because there was no data for the long times where I had disconnected the
WGL and no data was being logged. I would periodically check by turning the
WGL receiver back on, leaving it on if it was no longer getting "commands
from outer space."
> IIRC, some folks on the West Coast were having some X-10 issues with a
> specific smart electric meter. I don't recall details. I think there
> was a discussion (with Jeff Volp's participation) on the X-10
> Community Forums. Duke Energy installed Excellon meters here a couple
> of years back. I've seen no X-10 issues but have had two (different
> brand) inexpensive 700W microwaves lose their minds - beeping randomly
> and flashing or clearing the displays. I've suspected the new smart
> meters might have been outputting something that got by any filters
> the microwaves might have had. I now have a 1000W Haier Grill/
> Convection/Microwave combo that seems immune (so far).
old Litton isn't going to last forever.
Thanks for your input, as always, Dave.
--
Bobby G.
Robert Green
because:
"All steps should be performed while interference is active"
I am unfortunately well acquainted with the "turn off breaker by breaker"
detective method. I once used it, forgot to reset the VCR and ended up
losing the finale episode of my wife's favorite TV show. )-: X-10 SAF
took a VERY big hit that day.
At least I've got an investigative blueprint now in case the demons return.
It's certainly nice to have RF control back. Abandoning it completely while
maintaining the same functionality was/is going to be a bitch-load of work
and will never be quite as good. The keychain controller, the motion
detectors and even the dawn/dusk and refrigerator opening sensor (using the
dawn/dusk sensor of a Hawkeye) were sorely missed during their absence.
Thanks again for your assistance.
--
Bobby G.
Robert Green
news:28416276-ade1-
<stuff snipped>
<<You need a specialst in Electromagnetic Compatibility (EMC) There is
an IEEE EMC chapter in DC/Northern Virginia that has experts in
tracking down your problem. Try contacting Mike Violette and see if
he knows of someone who lives close to wherever you live. Please tell
him that aI referred you to him. If Mike can't help you, you might
try to find an amatuer radio operator who lives nearby, they are also
good at tracking down stray radio signals.
WASHINGTON / NORTHERN VIRGINIA IEEE EMC Society Chapter Chairman
Term: 1-1-2008, 12-31-2011
Mike Violette
Washington Labs Ltd
7560 Lindbergh Dr.
Gaithersburg MD 20879-5414
Phone: +1 301-417-0220
Fax: +1 301-417-9069
mi...@wll.com >>
contact Mike if only to find out if he's related to an Assistant Secretary
of Defense I used to work for. (-:
I came to the conclusion, walking around the house with my extension cord
and transceiver, that I need the right sort of direction finder and RF meter
to do this correctly. I think my neighbors believe I am some sort of
warlock now after seeing me walk around the house tethered to a long
extension cord.
--
Bobby G.
Robert Green
news:30754b0d-8028-439a...@d25g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
because in my plaster and lathwork house, RF signals often don't go more
than 15'. These signals reached every corner of the house and an area 200'
in diameter with the house in the center. One thing a friend reminded of is
that I am a few 100 yards away from the tallest building for 5 miles and
it's bristling with antennas on the roof. Who knows what's coming out of
them?
--
Bobby G.
Robert Green
news:e5db8b8b-c991-4673...@r8g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
sends out two copies with each transmission.
http://kbase.x10.com/wiki/X10_Basics
--
Bobby G.
Robert Green
news:j3gi0g$89e$1...@dont-email.me...
likely are IED jammers because this is the Washington DC and is clearly a
"rich target." The second is something coming in on the powerlines that the
power company uses to read, control or in some other way interact with
meters and remote controls that allow them to shut down your central AC
during a brownout (you get a rebate for letting them install the box).
The signal disappeared completely after 9/11, leading me to believe it's an
anti-IED transmission.
--
Bobby G.
Robert Green
checking that shouldn't allow plain old interference to be interpreted as
valid commands. Usually, anything that generates an unwanted X-10 command
is a piece of X-10 equipment gone mad. They make a plug in controlled
called the CM11A that would "speak in tongues" and flood the line with
spurious (but correctly formed) X-10 commands if you happened to leave the
serial cable used to communicate with the PC connected to the CM11A but not
the PC.
It's a headscratcher for sure but that's part of the "charm" of X-10. It's
been responsible for my learning all about AC power, sine waves, wiring up
240VAC gear to the circuit box, etc. But when it works, it's just like
magic, so it's worth the trouble, at least to me. Stock X-10 gear doesn't
work well anymore because of all the switching power supplies and
fluorescent lights that can stomp on the relatively weak signal (about 5V).
I use a device made by a guy named Jeff Volp that amplifies that weak signal
into one over 25V. That can punch through way more interference and makes
all the difference in making X10 a reliable protocol again, the way it was
when first introduced into a switching-power supply world over 20 years ago.
Thanks for your input!
--
Bobby G.
Robert Green
<stuff snipped>
> Doorbell transformers sound really bizarre as a source of RF. Somebody
> at a.h.r tracked down a source that says it is from contacts that
> disconnect the transformer when the current is too high for a class 2
> (limited energy) transformer. (Or something like that.) Contacts would
> repeatedly open (with arcing) and close.
RF signal on the same band as emergency search beacons.
--
Bobby G.
dlh
> > I now have a 1000W Haier Grill/
> > Convection/Microwave combo that seems immune (so far).
>
> I was going to buy that same unit! What do you think of it? The 25 year
> old Litton isn't going to last forever.
new but slightly dented unit, saving about $50 including shipping over
a pristine one from Amazon with free shipping but it's missing a user
manual and a couple of plastic feet on its bottom. They have an email
link on their web page but have ignored 3 emails. I'll try their 800
number next week. I've had a hectic couple of weeks from a reaction to
a change in medication (and from frequent visits from the team of
nurses and techs the VA's Home Based Primary Care program has assigned
me) so haven't gotten around to it yet. If you buy one, you can make
me a copy of the manual if I still need one. It's a lot more
complicated than a plain old microwave and I haven't figured out all
the secret handshakes yet.
Had you populated the BX24-AHT board you got, it reports RF signal
strength so might have made a crude direction finder with the right
antenna. You can get some highly directional yagi antennas that are
printed circuits which would help even more.
Bob F
> It's a headscratcher for sure but that's part of the "charm" of X-10.
> It's been responsible for my learning all about AC power, sine waves,
> wiring up 240VAC gear to the circuit box, etc. But when it works,
> it's just like magic, so it's worth the trouble, at least to me.
> Stock X-10 gear doesn't work well anymore because of all the
> switching power supplies and fluorescent lights that can stomp on the
> relatively weak signal (about 5V). I use a device made by a guy named
> Jeff Volp that amplifies that weak signal into one over 25V. That
> can punch through way more interference and makes all the difference
> in making X10 a reliable protocol again, the way it was when first
> introduced into a switching-power supply world over 20 years ago.
>
several devices to solve similar problems.
Robert Green
news:j58s9k$2n1$1...@dont-email.me...
odd in that it kept broadcasting 3 different X-10 codes by RF only. No way
to filter it out unless I build a Faraday cage around my house. The good
news is that it stopped right after 9/11. Don't know where it came from,
don't know where it went. All I know is that I am very, very happy it is
gone. Nothing like something not working anymore to realize how much you
depend on it.
Robert Green
was off for a week after Labor day but is now back on again full force.
Just stopped at 5AM. Distributed 6 TM751's located proximate to most
important RF switch controls as their effective range bathed in interference
is about 6 feet. No collisions with each other because except for a few
spots, each TM751 is in a non-contiguous sphere. Does NOT work with the WGL
transceiver active, too. Collision city.
Two kinds of X-10 interference in this case. One is plain old noise, the
other is noise that the X-10 receivers believe is an actual X-10
transmission.
I haven't yet "run down" the noise because a) I am lazy and b) IMHO, it's
not a solution if it depends on something or someone external to my house
doing something.
All in all it's been an interesting study in how low power gear like X-10 RF
acts when receiving "undesired" interference (is it ever desirable?"). Now
I'm going to see if I can put those TM751's on lamp or appliance modules to
switch between the WGL global network or the array of TM751's. There might
be some very strong benefits to being able to disable RF control, room by
room. X-10. Forever futzing. (-:
--
Bobby G.
news:c38f5cf4-0fbb-48aa...@a31g2000vbt.googlegroups.com...
Art Todesco
> A quick (for me!) followup, so please forgive the top post. Interference
> was off for a week after Labor day but is now back on again full force.
> Just stopped at 5AM. Distributed 6 TM751's located proximate to most
> important RF switch controls as their effective range bathed in interference
> is about 6 feet. No collisions with each other because except for a few
> spots, each TM751 is in a non-contiguous sphere. Does NOT work with the WGL
> transceiver active, too. Collision city.
>
> Two kinds of X-10 interference in this case. One is plain old noise, the
> other is noise that the X-10 receivers believe is an actual X-10
> transmission.
>
> I haven't yet "run down" the noise because a) I am lazy and b) IMHO, it's
> not a solution if it depends on something or someone external to my house
> doing something.
>
> All in all it's been an interesting study in how low power gear like X-10 RF
> acts when receiving "undesired" interference (is it ever desirable?"). Now
> I'm going to see if I can put those TM751's on lamp or appliance modules to
> switch between the WGL global network or the array of TM751's. There might
> be some very strong benefits to being able to disable RF control, room by
> room. X-10. Forever futzing. (-:
>
> --
> Bobby G.
>
>
I'm sure you've tried this; shutting off all but one circuit breaker in
the house and see if the noise goes away. I have been reading this
thread from the beginning, but I don't remember now. The reason I bring
this up now is that I recently bought a new LCD/LED TV and the RF remote
on my Dish DVR started working intermittently and then it stopped
working all together. I found that the TV was emitting a whole bunch of
EMI and apparently jamming the input on the DVR. It was intermittent as
I was moving around various stereo and TV components, including a small
FM audio transmitter. I initially thought it was the transmitter
because when shut off, things seemed to get better. The remotes finally
quit working all together when I finally got the components where I
wanted them, even without the FM transmitter. I fixed it by removing
the remote control receive antenna on the DVR and connecting a coax
cable instead and then, reconnected the antenna at the other end of the
cable, some 25' away and in the basement. This took care of my problem,
but it show how a new TV can be splattering stuff all over the place. I
honestly don't know how the TV could pass FCC Part 15 requirements.
BTW, have you contacted the guy recommended by HR Hofmann? Bob is very
knowledgeable about EMC and I'm sure the guy he mentioned has similar
credentials. It would be fun to use an RF spectrum analyzer and antenna
in and around your house ... and in my house too, especially with the
new TV.
Robert Green
stopped after the Section 8 house across the street was raided by 5 vans
full of policemen at 5 in the morning. I'm beginning to suspect they had
the house under remote radio surveillance of some sort that interfered with
the X-10 radio signal.
When I woke up, I saw the vans pulling away but fortunately I had the whole
thing recorded on my CCTV system (although it was pretty grainy). At
precisely 0500, five dark blue-green vans pulled up in front of the house
across the street with their headlights out. Then, a huge crowd of
approximately 25 agents in black tactical uniforms poured out of the vans,
along with a K9 unit and surrounded the house. They finished up at 7AM when
a fleet of local county police arrived. Since then I haven't logged a
single bogus X-10 RF command and God I hope it stays that way. Of course
this all happened *after* I spent a considerable amount of time
restructuring all my X-10 RF gear. )-:
I believe it was a drug bust because people would come to their house at all
hours of the day and night and never stay more than ten minutes. Also, when
they weren't home, people would sit outside their house in their cars to
wait for them to come back. People *still* drive by the house slowly as if
they are trying to figure out where their drug connection went. Two of my
neighbors had complained about something suspicious going on and I
complained to animal control that they had a very angry pit bull, which
nearly killed my dog and which are illegal in my county. I guess it does
pay to complain.
The oddest thing about the bust was that just before the vans arrived, the
Section 8'ers turned on their front porch light. I can only assume they
thought another customer was coming by. I'll bet they were *really*
surprised to see a squadron of agents at the door. Another side benefit is
that I can park on the street again. They had a collection of beater cars
that would make a used car salesman envious, parked in every available
space, on street and off, leaking more oil than the Exxon Valdez.
--
Bobby G.
Rich Wonneberger
Rich W.
Robert Green
news:j5qdfk$9un$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
to using TM751's located very close to the areas where I had motion sensors
or RF switches instead of using a whole house transceiver.
I am kinda of glad I didn't snoop much further because I wouldn't want to be
the guy who discovered any remote CCTV surveillance gear! I figure if the
power company was doing it, then others had to be experiencing similar
trouble but no one was. That meant it was local and my walkaround tests
proved that it was quite powerful interference and that it probably wasn't
emanating from my house. The RF interference began shortly after neighbors
reported suspcious comings and goings and disappeared a day or two after the
5 vans full of black-suited cops/agents raided the place across the street.
So far, so good.
--
Bobby G.
Robert Green
news:_f5nq.4259$vM2....@newsfe03.iad...
for plants.
--
Bobby G.
Josepi
Look closely at the windows and see if there is a shadow box with an old
woman sitting in a rocking chair in the picture.
These are used to stop irradiating the neighbourhood with grow light.
Or you could check to see if your neighbourhood runs a few degrees warmer
than the TV forecasts.
You may have noticed the rugs all in the garbage a few months back or junk
running down the side walls from the soffits where the condensation has been
pumped into the attic. Now the skunk you thought was in the neighbourhood
will disappear, also.
Or their names where Ngu.......
------------
"Robert Green" wrote in message news:j7iaha$hpu$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
Rich Wonneberger
Josepi
humidity would make them grow mould badly.
--------
"Rich Wonneberger" wrote in message
news:fiLnq.4168$Y_6....@newsfe21.iad...
Rugs??
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