Intermittent X10 appliance module
Joe Jakubiak
comes on sometimes? When it doesn’t work it sounds like a chattering
relay. Someone suggested the load wasn't large enough, but I’ve tried a
100 watt lamp with the same results. Is it worn out? It is 10 years old.
-
JOE JAKUBIAK EGD...@prodigy.com
Actpccpek
(Joe Jakubiak) writes:
>Is there any cure for an X10 appliance module that won’t turn on, or only
>comes on sometimes? When it doesn’t work it sounds like a chattering
>relay...... Is it worn out? It is 10 years old.
Once the signal packet has been received and processed by the IC chip in
the module, the relay coil is activated. That coil draws a huge,
instantaneous amount of current for 1/2 sine wave to pull in the relay
contacts. If the contacts fail to latch, the unit will try 4 more times
(1/2 cycle over the next 4 cycles). When a NEW receiver chatters in one
location, but operates correctly in another location, it is usually an
indication of insufficient current capability on that circuit. We see
this occasionally in industrial installations where several receivers are
all located on the same circuit and set to the same address code. When
commanded "on", all of them try to come on at the same time. The
instantaneous current draw lowers the voltage on that branch to such an
extent that the receivers chatter. The easy solution is to vary their
address codes and stagger their "on" times.
After saying all of that, your module appears to be just worn out. The
cam that rotates to latch the relay is most likely worn and no longer
latches with the same smoothness as it once did. I vote to replace it.
ACT PCC PEK -----> Phillip E. Kingery | Nothing contained herein is
| `--> Powerline Control Components | to be construed as creating
`-> Advanced Control Technologies,Inc | any liability or engineering
Opinions are based on the information | responsibility on behalf of
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October 4, 1995
8:29 am
Brian Reed
In article <44u2qv$p...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, actp...@aol.com (Actpccpek) writes:
>In article <44smk5$1i...@usenetw1.news.prodigy.com>, EGD...@prodigy.com
>>comes on sometimes? When it doesn’t work it sounds like a chattering
>>relay...... Is it worn out? It is 10 years old.
>After saying all of that, your module appears to be just worn out. The
>cam that rotates to latch the relay is most likely worn and no longer
>latches with the same smoothness as it once did. I vote to replace it.
Is it then better to get lamp modules instead? Are they all electronic,
so you don't need to worry about mechanical failure? But 10 years is
a pretty long time to last anyway.
--
Brian D. Reed
AT&T Columbus Works
Brian....@att.com
614-860-6218
William L. Mays
>>>Is there any cure for an X10 appliance module that won't turn on, or only
>>>comes on sometimes? When it doesn't work it sounds like a chattering
>>>relay...... Is it worn out?
Try that appliance module for control of a light bulb, at least 60 watts.
If it works ok then, it may be that you are using it to operate an inductive
load such as a fan motor. I have had good modules that chattered when switching
fans. If so you could try the "disable local control" modification, or use that
module for other loads that do not cause it to chatter.
--
Speaking only for myself: Bill Mays Lockheed Martin Corp.
\ / WM...@MOTOWN.MMC.COM
\/ (= <-I'm a mushroom...
/\ Same place, same job,
/ \ my mark. fourth company.
Wayne Thomas
And note that an inductive load may also include flourescent
lights. I had that problem on a fish tank. The above
mentioned modification fixed the problem for me. Curiously
before the fix, the problem was intermittent, but increasing in
frequency.
Michael M. Knox
Jon Scheer <wom...@outback.chi.il.us> wrote:
> I've been using X10 stuff nearly daily for over 10 years, and in
> all that time I've had *one* wall switch module go bad. In my
Me too, except I've never had a single component go bad.
I have about 20 pieces now, and many are used where they aren't supposed
to work (according to discussions here, anyway). I have a wall switch in
a weatherproof box in my backyard controlling 600 watts of flood lights
and it's worked in everything from -30 degrees up to well over 100 degrees
throughout the seasons.
I use appliance modules in a cold garage all winter -- again, no problems.
> I've had good luck with X10 products over the years, and I'm just
> trying to stand up a bit for them. :-)
I agree with you. The only "problem" I have right now is that I've
moved into a bigger home and sometimes the signal doesn't get over to
the other 120v "leg". (The stove test confirmed that's what it was). I
just got my Leviton 6299 Signal Bridge today and fully expect that the
problem will be fixed once I wire it in.
Regards,
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Knox | E-Mail: mk...@io.org
Brampton, Ontario | ar...@freenet.toronto.on.ca
CANADA |
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jon Scheer
I just wanted to throw my two cents worth in here...
I've been using X10 stuff nearly daily for over 10 years, and in
all that time I've had *one* wall switch module go bad. In my
current town house I'm using five wall switch modules, four lamp
modules (to control the plant lights) and several appliance modules.
I've had this setup for almost a year and similar setups over the
years.
Am I doubting that your modules are going bad? No, not at all.
What I'm questioning is the problem being attributed to quality
control of the modules. Perhaps the failures being are caused by
unstable electrical conditions (eg, some nearby heavy machinery
which is inducing an EM pulse in the line which is knocking out
the X10 modules).
Perhaps the failures are being caused by something else. If you
bought all your modules at the same time, perhaps there WAS a bad
batch of modules that were manufactured.
I've had good luck with X10 products over the years, and I'm just
trying to stand up a bit for them. :-)
Feedback and discussion (not flames 8-) are welcome.
-Jon
10/13/95
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Work: sch...@cig.mot.com
Home: wom...@outback.chi.il.us
WWW: Home page # 1 : http://www.cig.mot.com/~scheer <-- Behind a firewall.
WWW: Home page # 2 : http://miso.wwa.com/~scheer
A fortune cookie I once received...
"Beware of cookies bearing fortunes."
Robert Plamondon
>Howdy,
>
> I just wanted to throw my two cents worth in here...
>
> I've been using X10 stuff nearly daily for over 10 years, and in
>all that time I've had *one* wall switch module go bad. In my
>current town house I'm using five wall switch modules, four lamp
>modules (to control the plant lights) and several appliance modules.
>I've had this setup for almost a year and similar setups over the
>years.
I'll bet the stuff you bought ten years ago wasn't made in China.
I gather from the newsgroup that the failures I've had are not
particularly unusual.
-- Robert
--
Robert Plamondon * High-Tech Technical Writing
36475 Norton Creek Road * Blodgett * Oregon * 97326
rob...@plamondon.com * (503) 453-5841
"I regret that I have but one * for my country." -- Nathan Hale
~SiD6.7~
:>Is there any cure for an X10 appliance module that won’t turn on, or only
:>comes on sometimes? When it doesn’t work it sounds like a chattering
:>relay. Someone suggested the load wasn't large enough, but I’ve tried a
:>100 watt lamp with the same results. Is it worn out? It is 10 years old.
:>
Hi gang, new here - thought I'd chime in and add my 2 cents woth...
In my limited involvement with relay circuitry I have learned that
relays can be an electronic equivalent of a spring. This is to say
that the energy pulsed into the coil some times slaps back at it self.
Though this may not be usefull to many of you, there is the occasional
"redesigner" :-) that would consider retro fitting (KLUDGE) some of
these modules to work in the instances where there back emf or
clamping failure.
The fix could be:
+ ---------------\
+ | ) ||
diode ) || <-- Relay Coil
- | ) ||
- ---------------/
Also a capacitor of significant value would supply
a filtering effect to further smooth the coils ability to
clamp.
These methods could be used instead of, or in addition
to the units' existing efforts @ back emf suppression.
--------------------------//// DANGER //// ---------------------------
THIS INFO IS FOR INFORMATION PURPOSES ONLY!
IF YOU DO NOT HAVE A VERY SOLID ELECTRONICS
BACKGROUND - POWER/ANALOG - DON'T DICK WITH
IT!! YOU'LL ONLY BLOW THE CRAP OUT OF YERSELF
AND HELP FURTHER FINANCE THE EFFORTS OF TOO
RICH E.R. DOCTORS <g>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If this is the route ya wanna take - or need more info, plz post
a request. From some of the tag lines, im sure there's more than
enough collective genius here to further support these efforts.
Maybe even make the mods for you (for a fee...) .
Hope this helps.
I'll be lurkin' around fer a while fielding fly balls and flames,
so... <g>
JD
: I'll bet the stuff you bought ten years ago wasn't made in China.
: I gather from the newsgroup that the failures I've had are not
: particularly unusual.
the stuff I bought bout 7 years ago from dak (ge stuff) was china.
one lamp modual burnt up and one wall switch failed. out of about
15 various devices. somewhat acceptable.
Harold Ennulat
my experience:
When I furst purchased X10 modules I had 2 failures. Recently again I
had a failure of a lamp module (always on). In between I believe I've
only had one other failure. (I've kept all broken modules, so I could
fix them but haven't yet). It's frustrating when they go bad, because
you think they should last, but then for years they work and give me no
trouble at all. I'm always looking for something better. My assessment:
Great value for the money.
I'd like to hear from others on the newsgroup as well on this, especially
those with extensive (whole house) X10 systems, as this is what I'm
working towards with some fear and trepidation(sp), as problems magnify
themselves with larger systems.
--
__\/__
/ ^ ^ \
(\| (o)(o) |/)
------------------------oOOOo--oo--oOOOo----------------------------
| Harold Ennulat | | Internet: HEnn...@mmm.com |
| 3M PI&C Engrg 42-6E-08 | | Telephone: (612) 778-6467 |
| St Paul MN 55133-3331 | | 3M LocCode: 42-6E-08 01/089 |
--------------------------------------------------------------------
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| and although they are exceptionally well-reasoned, they do NOT |
| represent 3M, or any others to whom I am indebted." |
-----------------------------------Oooo.----------------------------
.oooO ( )
( ) ) /
\ ( (_/
\_)
Harold Ennulat
whole house X10 failure experience. I gather you have lots of X10
modules.
B.J. Segel
of the mail order companies that sells X10. The fellow I spoke with said
they experienced about a 3% return rate on X10 devices that failed during
the warranty period. He felt that this was acceptable and that if X10
devices were manufactured to a higher quality standard, the price would
be much greater.
Come to think of it, the Leviton X10 devices do cost a lot more than the
X10 brand. Does anyone know if they have a significantly lower failure
rate?
--
B.J. Segel
Port Hueneme, CA
Michael M. Knox
"B.J. Segel" <bjs...@pepperdine.edu> wrote:
> Come to think of it, the Leviton X10 devices do cost a lot more than the
> X10 brand. Does anyone know if they have a significantly lower failure
> rate?
The guy I deal with told me (kind of off-the-cuff) that X-10 have "about
a 25% failure rate" while Leviton is "much lower". I think maybe he gets
a better mark-up selling Leviton. Anybody know what the typical mark-ups
are for Leviton vs. X-10?
My personal experience with X-10 has been great. In about 10 years, I've
never had a single module go bad, and I have about 20 pieces. Everything
from the original BSR brand stuff through to current product.
John Heisch
: The guy I deal with told me (kind of off-the-cuff) that X-10 have "about
: a 25% failure rate" while Leviton is "much lower". I think maybe he gets
: a better mark-up selling Leviton. Anybody know what the typical mark-ups
: are for Leviton vs. X-10?
: My personal experience with X-10 has been great. In about 10 years, I've
: never had a single module go bad, and I have about 20 pieces. Everything
: from the original BSR brand stuff through to current product.
: Regards,
: ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
: Mike Knox | E-Mail: mk...@io.org
: Brampton, Ontario | ar...@freenet.toronto.on.ca
: CANADA |
: ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
My experience with X-10 stuff pretty much bears out the 25% failure rate.
I have had quite a number of pieces stop working, mostly lamp modules. I
had to get three of the 2-unit, radio-controlled switches (I can't
remember the model number) from X-10 before I got one that worked for
more than 2-3 days. It still doesn't work all that well, actually.
That said, however, the technology and convenience of the system far
outweighs any problems I've had. I've been sold on it for some years now.
--
John Heisch <hei...@rahul.net>
Robert Plamondon
>My personal experience with X-10 has been great. In about 10 years, I've
>never had a single module go bad, and I have about 20 pieces. Everything
>from the original BSR brand stuff through to current product.
In my case, every module that's lasted 48 hours has continued to work
fine. The failures have been about equally divided between failure
after working fine for a few hours, and units that were DOA. Mostly
wall switch units.
Robert Plamondon
>If you feel somewhat daring, and have some electronics experience, you can
>find that resistor by looking at the bottom end [1] of the circuit board.
>You will find a <100 Ohm 1/2 watt resistor. It may even have a brown crack
>in it, showing that it fatigued due to heat. Replace that one by a flame
>proof 1 watt resistor.
Under the prevailing circumstances at the time, I found it simpler
to return them for credit after getting the replacements.
Scott Mayo
<In article <460qlv$7...@moon.pepperdine.edu>, "B.J. Segel"
<<bjs...@pepperdine.edu> wrote:
<>Come to think of it, the Leviton X10 devices do cost a lot more than the X10
<>brand. Does anyone know if they have a significantly lower failure rate?
<The guy I deal with told me (kind of off-the-cuff) that X-10 have "about a
<25% failure rate" while Leviton is "much lower". I think maybe he gets a
<better mark-up selling Leviton. Anybody know what the typical mark-ups are
<for Leviton vs. X-10?
<My personal experience with X-10 has been great. In about 10 years, I've
<never had a single module go bad, and I have about 20 pieces. Everything from
<the original BSR brand stuff through to current product.
I can't say the same. I've had two wall switches go bad, an X-10 floodlight
that didn't come close to operating within spec, a wireless transmitter that
acted in a flakey fashion, and (unrelated) a wireless receiver that required
open heart surgery before it would perform properly. Admittedly some of that
was bought through DAK and I suspect they were in the business of selling the
marginal stuff; but as much as I like the convenience of X10 I don't like the
overall quality and construction of the pieces I get. Shoddy slider switches,
cheap contact switches, sometimes sloppy internal wiring. The /electrical/
side usually seems to be OK - the mechanical side seems to be the problem. And
when you are putting stuff in your /house/ you expect a failure rate of 0%.
On the other hand, in a recent project an electrican brought in a Leviton wall
switch. I immediately had it apart and was impressed at the overall design.
I'll let you know in about 20 years if I think it can stand the daily rigours
of use in a real house :), but for now I begin to suspect that their high
prices might actually get you something.
I don't work for any of these companies.
--
Alt.devilbunnies - it's not a job, it's an adventure
Michael M. Knox
rob...@plamondon.COM (Robert Plamondon) wrote:
> >My personal experience with X-10 has been great. In about 10 years, I've
> >never had a single module go bad, and I have about 20 pieces. Everything
> >from the original BSR brand stuff through to current product.
> In my case, every module that's lasted 48 hours has continued to work
> fine. The failures have been about equally divided between failure
> after working fine for a few hours, and units that were DOA. Mostly
> wall switch units.
Actually, I *did* have one DOA Wall Switch Module. I forgot about that
because I took it back to the Radio Shack were I got it and it was
promptly replaced with one that's worked fine ever since.
JD
: marginal stuff; but as much as I like the convenience of X10 I don't like the
my stuff is dak (GE) same as R/S
: overall quality and construction of the pieces I get. Shoddy slider switches,
: cheap contact switches, sometimes sloppy internal wiring. The /electrical/
: side usually seems to be OK - the mechanical side seems to be the problem. And
: when you are putting stuff in your /house/ you expect a failure rate of 0%.
you have high expectations! many here have stated the price is well in
line with the reliability.
An old saying is that for the last 10% (to go from 90%
to 100% in quality or preformance) will be 90% of the final price.
So how many would deal with X10 type devices if every device cost $100 or
more.
Edward Cheung
>Ed, I was thinking of you when I replyed earlier in the thread regarding
>whole house X10 failure experience. I gather you have lots of X10
>modules.
My system fills five house codes.
Ed (who is wondering how much this hobby is going to cost him when CEBus/
LONWorks/?-? becomes widespread).
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
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