Whole house audio - Nuvo or ChannelPlus?
mill...@gmail.com
frequenting this group in the future :D
I'm building a home and I'm trying to spec out a whole house media
distribution system. Right now I am covering all my bases by hom-run
wiring speaker + 2x cat5e to each zone, as well as 2xrg6 + 2xcat6 for
video/networking, maybe shielded line level in a few spots, and perhaps
some conduit for future-proofing.
I'm focusing on audio distribution for the time being and wanted input
on a couple of options I have my eye on - the ChannelPlus MDS-6A & Nuvo
Essentia.
http://www.channelplus.com/product_detail.php?productId=89
http://www.nuvotechnologies.com/prozone/essentia.htm
These systems are pretty similar - 6 source / 6 zone expandable to 12
zone switching amplifiers with source select + volume + IR repeater at
the keypad. The primary difference is the MDS-6A has an IR learning
keypad for local source control and 40W / channel. The Essentia has
20W / channel, no IR learning keypad, but has a RS-232 interface on the
amplifier.. nice for home automation or custom control stuff.
Anyways, the cost is very similar so I'm just looking for input that
would guide me one way or the other. Or if anyone has any other
recommendations I'm defintely open to them!
Thanks!
Eric
William at MyBlueRoom
zoned system can do and more. Wireless WiFi options too.
Lewis Gardner
> I like the Squeezebox devices, www.slimdevices.com can do everything a
> zoned system can do and more.
All the local AM/FM radio stations?
All the local TV stations audio?
Play records/cassettes/8tracks in real time?
Whole house mute/volume up/volume down/change source/off?
Whole house announcements/caller ID/doorphone?
I am sure I can think of more but the bottom line is traditional zoned
systems can be less expensive, easier to operate and more flexible than
networked digital players. I like digital players and have a MP115
connected to my zoned system but the requirement to digitize content
will keep them out of the hands of the computer illiterate for now.
graham...@gmail.com
William at MyBlueRoom
Many radio stations now have internet broadcasts, I can listen by
adding the url to the squeezbox playlist.
>All the local TV stations audio?
Nope, none yet. But I can live rebroadcast / stream an audio source via
my linux server / gateway. (Shoutcast)
>Play records/cassettes/8tracks in real time?
I don't even own those formats anymore, I listen to CDs and rip them
perfectly with EAC. I can play any of my CDs on any or all of my
squeezeboxes in seconds. I can even browse by coverart.
>Whole house mute/volume up/volume down/change source/off?
It's not zoned, I cannot choose a source remotely. But I can control
volume on all units from either a web interface or the squezzebox
itself.
>Whole house announcements/caller ID/doorphone?
Doorbell $20, networked webcam $110
As for price, the ChannelPlus MDS-6A is about $1250 and the Nuvo
Essentia
is around $1999
A squeezbox3 is around $250 wired and $300 wireless, a linux server to
play can be had for as little as $450, I can also load UPnP software
www.twonkyvision.de and watch videos, audio & photos on devices like a
DSM-320 $188 CDn.
I've set up linux gateways with web servers, email servers, NAS, UPnP &
slimdevices software all running very reliably on a small Duron
motherboard with 512M & 250G HD and linux with web access
www.pointclark.com the works for $500CDn
My system can give the best networked players a run for their money,
ReQuest is pretty much the same stuff only they build the players and
costs $8000+
Plus the Squeeboxes use 24bit BB DACs (although I use the SPDIF and it
sounds excatly like the original CD) I generally rip to FLAC. All my
audio stays in the digital domain up until the amplifier. The older
zoned systems
Add a wifi access point for $108 (although the DSM-320 is hardwired as
it hiccups on wifi) and for the kids I've used an Netgear MP101 $88 CDn
I can even control the squeezboxes with a wireless Ipaq.
Both systems have advantages / disadvantages, price isn't one of them.
I used to sell networked media servers www.digitalglu.com
Up2L8
nice if there were in-wall versions of it. Reminds me of the Barix
system, but more "Apple" looking.
A little pricey- for a 6 zone system I'd be looking at $3200+ I guess.
Ouch. Plus I'm stuck with one controller.
Squeeze box looks nice too, but no analog inputs. Also not a
dealbreaker, but I would like to be able to listen to AM/FM radio at
times. Definitely cheaper than the sonos, but no built in amp? Easy
enough to get a volume knob/amp I suppose, but seems like it could be a
hassle.
With either the Nuvo or ChannelPlus zoned systems I mentioned above I
can control mp3 play lists, internet radio, etc from a wireless PDA and
have a pretty good approximation of Sonos/Squeezebox capabilities.
Sure, I'm limited to 6 sources, but for me even that may be overkill.
The main thing I lose is local analog inputs.
Thanks for the suggestions though, keep em coming!
Eric
William at MyBlueRoom
Lewis Gardner
> Both systems have advantages / disadvantages,
That was my point. Your statement that the Squeezebox "can do everything
a zoned system can do and more." is simply not true. They both have
their strengths and weaknesses. For most people the strengths of
simplicity, less wiring in each room and ease of operation favor a zoned
system especially in new construction.
> price isn't one of them.
There is NO WAY the OP can put together a 6 Squeezebox system complete
with with amps, speakers, storage and rip for the approx $2k that the
systems he is looking at cost.
If you are going to have fewer zones, be able to recycle existing
amps/speakers and already have the ability to digitize source material
then the price becomes more competitive. However it still does not have
the deal killer of traditional AM/FM reception.
William at MyBlueRoom
general a statement.
If you want to do a networked system on the cheap, then hows this for
cheap, you still need amps though, even computer speaker systems with
amp will work fine...
*Not including cat5 cable or hubs + installation (zoned systems need
this too)
Server Linksys NSLU2 $90 software twonkymedia audio only free
www.twonkyvision.de
a 300G USB2 HD with enclosure $180
Clients http://twonkyvision.de/UPnP/devices.html#music-players
On the cheap a Netgear MP101 $90
(something awesome but $$$$, a Denon AVR-4806 has a built in UPnP
client)
Amp & Speaker Logitech Z4 2.1 system with speakers $49
So for a 6 zone budget system
$90+180+$90*6+$49*6 = $1104
Now with the MP101 they work great with a wired system and are near
garbage with wireless.
Can you expand a zoned system beyond it's 6 hardwired zones? Is there a
wireless option?
As for ripping your CDs EAC is free, and if you rip to FLAC it's
lossless. again free and excellent. All your CD collection can be
searched and played back in seconds.
If you don't want to rip it yourself there are plenty of ripping
services out there www.riptuning.com is an example.
PS www.shoutcast.com has thousands of free streams, and so do many
AM/FM stations.
Bill
graham...@gmail.com
you're not stuck with once controller. (of course they aren't free, so
you need to factor that into your TCO, but it does include the amps)...
and it also lets you input and distribute any analog source from any
Zone to any Zone, or every Zone.
graham
Lewis Gardner
> So for a 6 zone budget system
> $90+180+$90*6+$49*6 = $1104
Without the rebates (usually limited to one per address) and refurbs I
come up with $90+$200+$115*6+$70*6=$1400 Still a nice price, certainly
not as nice a system as with the Squeezeboxes($2210).
The user still needs a PC to rip with and the knowledge and patience to
do so.
> Can you expand a zoned system beyond it's 6 hardwired zones?
Most can easily be expanded 2x with the use of simple Y cables on the
inputs. So a 6 zone becomes a 12 zone adding another 6 zone "box",
speakers and controls. Sources can be shared with the Y cables or some
inputs can be only available on 1/2 of the outputs. Sometimes a handy
"feature".
> Is there a wireless option?
No. Unless you really want to run the cost up by using using some custom
RF "modification".
> PS www.shoutcast.com has thousands of free streams, and so do many
> AM/FM stations.
I have not seen any as easy to use as car radio which is how many zoned
systems work. Channel up, channel down and presets. Local news and
sports. Synchronous TV audio in the kitchen, bathroom and everywhere
else on game day. People LOVE it.
Until realtime analog inputs are worked out (at a reasonable price) it
will be difficult to convince most non computer oriented people to go
with networked digital players. I was very excited about building a AV
distribution system based one MP115 per zone. The cost savings over a
traditional matrix switch based system is HUGE. When I showed it to
potential users their FIRST question was "how do I watch live TV?".
Since I usually watch stored video that was not a concern for me but
most people still watch some their crappy "reality" TV in realtime with
the ads. Go figure...
Robert L Bass
> Essentia is around $1999
The MDS-6A sells for $1007.
--
Regards,
Robert L Bass
Bass Burglar Alarms
The Online DIY Store
http://www.BassBurglarAlarms.com
--
Never underestimate the power of very stupid people in large
groups.
Bill Kearney
> would guide me one way or the other. Or if anyone has any other
> recommendations I'm defintely open to them!
Take a look at Russound's CAV6.6. We put one in a while ago and it's been
great.
-Bill Kearney
Frank Olson
> The MDS-6A sells for $1007.
It's 1,101.88 at http://www.audio-discounters.com/mds-6a-kit-2.html
(but I think that includes some remote keypads as well)
1,250.00 at
http://www9.shopping.com/xPO-Channel_Plus_6_Source_Multi_Room_Music_Distribution_Kit_2
and at http://www.home-technology-store.com/MDS-6A-KIT2.aspx?ID=2365
(with remote keypads)
As low as $816.00 at
http://stores.ebay.com/a1Components_Audio-Video-Components_W0QQcolZ2QQdirZQ2d1QQftidZ2QQtZkm
$999.00 at http://www.inwallstore.com/mds6a.html
You gotta be darn careful to read all the "foin" print... :-)
Frank Olson
http://www.yoursecuritysource.com
Up2L8
The controllers are very nice and if I was a) not able to pre-wire and
b) able to spend ~$3000-$4000 I would probably get this.
>Take a look at Russound's CAV6.6
Nice system, I love the video switching and ! What kind of cabling do
you do for such a beast? About double what I was hoping to spend, but
the video switching would be worth it.
I have been looking at the network-based systems for awhile and there
have been some great suggestions here. I'll definitely have to take a
hard look at my usage model and see if any of them are viable for me
(at a reasonable cost =)). It is tough to beat the simplicity and
ease-of-use of a wall-mounted contol system with IR repeaters though.
As for analog inputs, really my main source would be AM football
games.. which I think I could get streamed over the internet. Other
considerations would be CD/DVD Audio that friends bring over, Ipods,
etc. Fairly infrequent stuff, but having the option is nice.
Thanks again for all your input!
Eric
Bill Kearney
>
> Nice system, I love the video switching and ! What kind of cabling do
> you do for such a beast? About double what I was hoping to spend, but
> the video switching would be worth it.
Bear in mind that it includes the amplification for each zone. Everything
in that one box.
You wire it using CAT5 to the wall controller, speaker wire to the speakers
(often through the wall controller junction box) and then coax to wherever
you want the TV. You can get baluns from them to use CAT5 instead of coax
if you prefer. It's "only" composite video, not s-video or component. But
it's more than adequate for regular TVs. In the home theatre we run
composite directly from the source devices.
> As for analog inputs, really my main source would be AM football
> games.. which I think I could get streamed over the internet.
Take a look at J.River's Media Center program for windows. We use it to
provide mp3 and streamed audio. Video we get from regular AV devices (DVD,
DirecTV Tivo) because PC streamed video really isn't all that good. Yes,
it can be done, but in reality it's been more trouble (and expense) than
it's worth.
> Other
> considerations would be CD/DVD Audio that friends bring over, Ipods,
> etc. Fairly infrequent stuff, but having the option is nice.
Heh, take a look at Sonance's iPort in-wall iPod mounting boxes. I haven't
installed our yet.
-Bill Kearney