Redeye and Cancer (no joke)
Bobocito
that the non-redeye eye has a cancerous or pre-cancerous retina. The
abnormal cells block the reflection of redeye. Several cases of cancer have
been discovered and treated after someone noticed that only one eye glowed
in a pic. Since redeye has been a "question frequently asked" lately, I
thought I would pass this on, so that it might become more generally known.
--
Bobocito
Note to self: Compose clever sig.
Leonard Evens
<smok...@eatmeat.hotmail.com> wrote:
I'm not a physician, but as best I can tell, such cancers must be
extremely rare. The one exception is retinoblastoma, a cancer of the
retina which (also rare) occurs in young children. I don't know for
sure, but I would assume there would be other indications, and I presume
pediatricians look in their patients eyes at regular checkups.
Redeye can be somewhat variable, and depend on the angle of view, so I
think it would be very premature to assume something is wrong if one eye
shows it and another doesn't in a single photograph.
>
> --
> Bobocito
> Note to self: Compose clever sig.
>
>
--
Leonard Evens l...@math.northwestern.edu 847-491-5537
Dept. of Mathematics, Northwestern Univ., Evanston, IL 60208
smasher
Do you have some kind of cite or reference for this? I've also
heard the same claim, but I've never seen confirmation of it.
I just did a google search on this topic, but didn't find
any relevant web pages.
Steph
"Leonard Evens" <l...@math.northwestern.edu> wrote in message
news:20020109.075347....@math.northwestern.edu...
Well said that man.
Retinoblastoma is NOT a disease of adults, and the cases which have been
found by seeing an abnormal retinal reflex (called the "Cat's Eye Sign")
have all been in babies.
Red eye is very common in photos, retinal tumours are very rare.
Bobocito
it".
The following is quoted from this page...
http://www.nevdgp.org.au/geninf/std_misc/RETINOBLASTOMA.htm
"What is Retinoblastoma?
Retinoblastoma is the commonest eye cancer in infancy and childhood,
affecting one in seventeen thousand live births. The retina is the living
photographic film in the back of the eye. Retinoblastoma means tumours in
the retina.
It occurs in infants and children up to five years old and, if diagnosed
early, 95% of children with retinoblastoma survive. Retinoblastoma can
appear in one or both eyes.
What should I look for?
Retinoblastoma can show up in several ways. As the young infant can't
communicate, the parents need to watch for anything unusual about the
child's eyes.
Flashlight photos may reveal a "cat's eye reflex". A normal retina reflects
a red colour in a photo taken using a flash (cameras without red-eye
reduction). If the child has the tumours they will reflect a white light
instead. Look at flash photos carefully to see if the red reflex in each eye
is the same."
--
Bobocito
Note to self: Compose clever sig.
"Steph" <st...@vancouvers.island> wrote in message
news:zH2%7.1866$N9....@news.bc.tac.net...
David
mass enough to cause the stoppage of light from a flash, you have had
warning signs already -- including loss of sight, pain and weird halo
effects when looking into light. I personally don't buy the story. The guy
would have absolutely have known there was a problem prior to the picture.
"Bobocito" <smok...@eatmeat.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:u3q23si...@corp.supernews.com...
Bobocito
http://webmd.lycos.com/content/asset/adam_symptoms_leukochoria
http://www.nevdgp.org.au/geninf/std_misc/RETINOBLASTOMA.htm
http://www.retinoblastoma.net/campaign/whitepaper.htm
I saw a page once, that I can't find now, that detailed a case where obvious
symtoms were visable on snapshots, and the parents thought something was
wrong with the camera. One eye had a whiteish cast, the other classic
redeye. Other symtoms later prompted medical intervention, but it was too
late to stem the cancer, and the boy later died.
This disease strikes infants, who are not able to communicate the symtoms to
their parents.
I am not involved in any way with this unfortunate disease, I am glad to
say. I am surprised that other posters seem to want to believe that this is
some sort of urban hoax.
--
Bobocito
Note to self: Compose clever sig.
Don Cohen
normal redeye reflex in one eye can be an indication of a retinal tumor (but
also a cataract, corneal scar or swelling, retinal detachment, a pupil
abnormality on one side, etc.). Retinoblastoma in children can certainly
present this way. So a tumor is not the only cause of asymmetric redeye
reflex, but it is one of the causes.
As for whether or not someone would be aware of other symptoms long before
it got to the stage of disrupting the red reflex, I'd have to say that
generally they would be aware. However, you'd be surprised at how many
patients have developed dramatic loss of vision in one eye, and are totally
unaware of it. Sometimes it just develops slowly, and just never gets
noticed.
I saw a patient in the emergency room (while in residency training) come in
with "sudden" loss of vision in one eye. I examined him and found a fairly
dense cataract, which obviously had been developing for months, if not
years. He just happened to cover his good eye and realized he wasn't seeing
much out of the other. It is surprising, but as I've said, I've seen it a
number of times over the years.
Hope this helps.
--
Don
Photo Website at:
http://www.dlcphotography.net
"David" <david...@home.com> wrote in message
news:dsu%7.7597$JF.7...@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net...
Lee Manevitch
"David" <david...@home.com> wrote:
> As someone who knows first hand -- if your cancer is at a point where it has
> mass enough to cause the stoppage of light from a flash, you have had
> warning signs already -- including loss of sight, pain and weird halo
> effects when looking into light. I personally don't buy the story. The guy
> would have absolutely have known there was a problem prior to the picture.
Retinoblastoma predominantly affects those patients too young to tell
anyone they're experiencing vision loss - it hits infants and toddlers.
It's a very serious disease with a 100% cure rate if caught early -
removal of the eye is indicated.
--
Lee
Steph
"Lee Manevitch" <mane...@mac.com> wrote in message
news:manevitch-B896F...@newsr2.tampabay.rr.com...
Not necessarily.
It can be treated with radiotherapy and chemotherapy
Leonard Evens
<donc...@nc.prestige.net> wrote:
> I'm an ophthalmologist, and the concept here is sound. That is, lack of
> a normal redeye reflex in one eye can be an indication of a retinal
> tumor (but also a cataract, corneal scar or swelling, retinal
> detachment, a pupil abnormality on one side, etc.). Retinoblastoma in
> children can certainly present this way. So a tumor is not the only
> cause of asymmetric redeye reflex, but it is one of the causes.
Can you explain why it is called "redeye reflex"? I thought redeye
occured simply because the flash lit up the back of the retina. Since
the flash is so short there isn't time for the pupil to contract, and you
see in the photograph what the ophthamologist would see when shining a
light in the eye, except of course for the lack of detail.
Is there some other reflex involved in "redeye reflex"?
Leonard Evens
<smok...@eatmeat.hotmail.com> wrote:
> I am glad to see that someone is willing to seek the facts on this
> issue. http://webmd.lycos.com/content/asset/adam_symptoms_leukochoria
> http://www.nevdgp.org.au/geninf/std_misc/RETINOBLASTOMA.htm
> http://www.retinoblastoma.net/campaign/whitepaper.htm I saw a page once,
> that I can't find now, that detailed a case where obvious symtoms were
> visable on snapshots, and the parents thought something was wrong with
> the camera. One eye had a whiteish cast, the other classic redeye. Other
> symtoms later prompted medical intervention, but it was too late to stem
> the cancer, and the boy later died. This disease strikes infants, who
> are not able to communicate the symtoms to their parents.
> I am not involved in any way with this unfortunate disease, I am glad to
> say. I am surprised that other posters seem to want to believe that this
> is some sort of urban hoax.
Sorry if I appeared to be one of them. But you didn't specify
retinoblastoma in the initial posting. A lot of people become
concerned about cancer of any kind, so I thought it was worth noting that
this sort of thing is rare. But now that you have related it to
children, who as you note may not be able to communicate the fact that
they have a problem, I think you have brought something to our attention
which could in some cases save lives.
>
> --
> Bobocito
> Note to self: Compose clever sig.
>> Do you have some kind of cite or reference for this? I've also heard
>> the same claim, but I've never seen confirmation of it.
>>
>> I just did a google search on this topic, but didn't find any relevant
>> web pages.
>
>
Steph
> In article <5Iz%7.995$O51.1...@news2.news.adelphia.net>, "Don Cohen"
> <donc...@nc.prestige.net> wrote:
>
> > I'm an ophthalmologist, and the concept here is sound. That is, lack of
> > a normal redeye reflex in one eye can be an indication of a retinal
> > tumor (but also a cataract, corneal scar or swelling, retinal
> > detachment, a pupil abnormality on one side, etc.). Retinoblastoma in
> > children can certainly present this way. So a tumor is not the only
> > cause of asymmetric redeye reflex, but it is one of the causes.
>
> Can you explain why it is called "redeye reflex"? I thought redeye
> occured simply because the flash lit up the back of the retina. Since
> the flash is so short there isn't time for the pupil to contract, and you
> see in the photograph what the ophthamologist would see when shining a
> light in the eye, except of course for the lack of detail.
>
> Is there some other reflex involved in "redeye reflex"?
>
"reflex" is used in the sense of "reflection", not muscular reflex.
Don Cohen
> Can you explain why it is called "redeye reflex"? I thought redeye
> occured simply because the flash lit up the back of the retina. Since
> the flash is so short there isn't time for the pupil to contract, and you
> see in the photograph what the ophthamologist would see when shining a
> light in the eye, except of course for the lack of detail.
>
> Is there some other reflex involved in "redeye reflex"?
Steph is right on the money. We often refer to the "red reflex" seen when a
light is shined into a person's eye. It is a reflection such as Steph said.
Pediatricians often use this as well as part of a general physical exam of
an infant or child. Any asymmetry in the red reflex would be cause for
referral to an ophthalmologist.
In addition to the other causes I listed for asymmetry in the red reflex, I
realized I omitted a large difference in the refractive state of the eye.
If for example one eye is "normal" while the other eye is highly nearsighted
(or farsighted), the red reflex would be different between the eyes. If not
found and treated, the result is diminished vision in one of the eyes. In
fact, work has been done on photographing children's eyes, maximizing the
red reflex, as a type of 'screening' for eye problems.
And you are correct - the red reflex occurs from light bouncing off the
retina and blood vessels in the back of the eye. Typically a flash is being
used indoors because there's not enough light, so the pupils tend to be
large to begin with. The flash is quick enough that the pupil doesn't
contract, and the "redeye" is the result. Some cameras use "redeye
reduction" to minimize this: a flash or series of flashes before the "real"
flash intended to cause constriction of the pupil, theoretically reducing
the red reflex.
Hope this helps!
Steve
Maybe you can answer this. I have a sister-in-law that always produces
the worst cases of redeye that I have ever seen in a human. She
doesn't even have to be looking directly into the camera. Usually when
I photograph people, I put a 3 inch extension between the camera and
flash, that pretty much eliminates the redeye problem in everyone, but
not necessarily with her. What is unusual about her eyes, it occurs in
both eyes.
Steve
"Don Cohen" <donc...@nc.prestige.net> wrote in message
news:MdH%7.1367$O51.2...@news2.news.adelphia.net...
Don Cohen
I would guess that her pupils are just naturally larger than usual, and/or
that possibly she's a light-skinned, blue-eyed type of individual. You'd be
surprised how much normal variation there is in baseline pupil size. And
people with less natural pigmentation tend to show the red reflex more
prominently than darkly pigmented individuals. Her eye may also be larger
than usual. There is also a reasonably wide variation in eye size, with the
axial length (front of cornea to back of retina) going from 21 mm to 27 mm
in general. Generally a larger eye will be nearsighted, although this is
not always the case. A larger eye/larger pupil/lightly pigmented individual
would be more prone to 'redeye.'
If neither of these describe here, let me know, along with a physical
description (or a link to a picture) and we can see if we can figure it out!
--
Don
Photo Website at:
"Steve" <mar...@pbtcomm.net> wrote in message
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