Any reason to keep Paint Shop Pro?
Bill Hilton
well and haven't used PSP. Is there any reason to keep PSP or should I
uninstall it?
Basically, are there any useful things it does that PS doesn't? For instance,
I also got a free copy of Elements 2 with a digital camera and it allows you to
create panoramas by auto-stitching images together. Does PSP do any thing like
create montages or whatever that might make it worth keeping?
Bill
J C
wrote:
PSP (at least the old version I had) could rotate one color bitmaps,
which Photoshop cannot do (so you're forced to change to greyscale
mode if you want to rotate a line drawing in PS).
There are probably some other things that PSP does differently.
If you're not strapped for space, why not just keep it around a while?
-- JC
JP Kabala
"Bill Hilton" <bhilt...@aol.comedy> wrote in message
news:20030813152004...@mb-m05.aol.com...
Jerry
Screen Capture is about the only thing I can think of. I have used both,
and now use Photoshop Elements 2 exclusively.
Jerry M
Colorado
Uni
> Bill,
>
> Screen Capture is about the only thing I can think of. I have used both,
> and now use Photoshop Elements 2 exclusively.
I heard you can also use Photoshop actions with Elements, with a little
help.
Uni
>
>
> Jerry M
> Colorado
>
Ilya Razmanov
"Bill Hilton" <bhilt...@aol.comedy> wrote in message
news:20030813152004...@mb-m05.aol.com...
Photoshop
> well and haven't used PSP. Is there any reason to keep PSP or should I
> uninstall it?
Difficult question. The answer depends on what you need from the program, as
always ;-) Well, several good reasons to keep PSP (I'm talking about version
8, the latest one) could be:
1) PSP's "Background Eraser" is much more "adaptive ", accurate and easy to
use than PS's one. For now, I'd never go to PS for using such a tool - it's
much more easy to do in PSP.
2) There are several unique filters in it that are quite useful. For
example, "Salt and Pepper" for noise removal. It's slow as hell on large
images, but speaking of quality... I never seen anything better. In many
cases, it was the only tool capable to repair some old ruined photos. And
no, don't mention that buggy PS's "Smart Blur" please.
Or, for example, PSP's halftone effects are way better than PS's.
Yet, of course, PSP is not even close to prepress capabilities of PS. So, in
no way PSP may be considered as full replacement for PS. In some cases, PSP
is much better than PS, in some cases, it's not even close. The question
is - what do YOU need?
In a word, it's next to impossible to answer without knowing what you're
after. I hope you're not too much short of disk space - keep PSP for some
time and try to play with it. Then choose wisely :-)))
Ilyich.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ilya Razmanov (a.k.a. Ilyich the Toad)
http://photoshop.msk.ru/ - Photoshop plug-in filters
"Sam: Percent sign ampresand dollar sign!
Max: And colon semicolon, too!" - Sam and Max hit the road
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
A Soberon
Spacegirl said:
:o how about u just fuck off?
Marv Raybin
"Bill Hilton" <bhilt...@aol.comedy> wrote in message
news:20030813152004...@mb-m05.aol.com...
MB
Photoshop in the background
"Marv Raybin" <ray...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:mT0%a.1254$2Y1...@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com...
JP Kabala
quickly/easily/simply
Version 7
Vector Drawing and Vector Shapes (these are essentially different than PS
shapes and shape layers-- not better or worse, but really different)
Tubes* see my note on this below
Great Photographic Noise Reduction Filters: Edge Preserving Smooth and
Texture Preserving Smooth-- These guys kick Despeckle and Median's butt
without blurring too much, especially when you use them on selections rather
than applying to the whole image.
Customizable toolbars and workspaces
Frames* see my note on this below
Gray World Algorithm Color Balance (introduced in 7, improved in 8-- e.g.
One of my clients uses photos of
Aquariums extensively. Gray World does an amazing job of banishing the
greenish tinge everything gets
from photos through glass and water, while keeping the fish the right
colors.)
Seamless pattern generation (rudimentary in 7, sophisticated in 8) Different
than PS patterns
File Browser (I just like PSP's Better than PS's because you can control the
way it looks more easily)
Version 8
All of the above plus (there's more, these are just biggies)
---Warp tools, both brushes and meshes-- real time, real responsive on the
layer, not in a dialog, you'll never like liquefy again once you start
playing with these.
---I like the way they handle effect and adjustment presets in this
version--- they're easier to find than PS's
---New paint engine that allows you to paint with textured and
semitransparent colors. Brushes have variance now- some are similar to PS,
but some do some different things than PS's.
---Painless Python scripting instead of actions. Simple ones can be
recorded with the ease of a Word macro, complex ones take a little
Python...lots of flexibility--
---Controllable size of preview windows-- from hidden (preview
adjustment/effect directly on layered image) to HUGE (nearly half the
display window) with zoom to 5000% in some cases.
---Lith selection editing, and some of the nicest selection options in any
program I've ever seen
---A complex spherical object generator (Balls and Bubbles) that really
needs to be played with to be appreciated -- it's being used rather badly
right now by a lot of people, (and well by a few) but this thing is capable
of producing some amazing stuff.
There's a lot of other stuff like one step photo fix, (which is actually
pretty good for garden-variety cleanup of digital snaps.) and an integrated
histogram and color/contrast adjustment window (that works well for stuff
that needs a lot more help or subtlety)
**BUT PSP tools have a history of being used....shall we say? in clumsy or
heavy-handed ways by
hobbyist/amateur users, and sometimes get a bad rep. Tubes and frames are
clear examples of this.
In order to get the best out of tubes, I suggest that you NOT read any
web-based tutorial on their use
until you yourself play with them and see what they REALLY do. Most people
use tubes to splat things
on images like slapping in a piece of clipart. Well, you can do that, but
that isn't the best, smartest,
or most powerful way to use the feature. Tubes take a series of small images
and apply them precisely
either in sequence or randomly to the current layer, based on parameters you
set. Most people clone out
huge pieces of other pictures and clomp them in. YUK. But what if you, as an
artist, created a series of
subtly different leaves (for example- color variation, shape variation, size
variation) and used the tubing
function to place them along the branches of a tree? Because you can adjust
the size on the fly, it would be
simple to enlarge the foreground leaves and diminish the size of ones
further back.... add a new layer, add
a few more leaves, add some shadows....building up from back to
front....like complex brush strokes
rather than rubber stamps or stickers.
Frames are another ill-used function. I have been known to delete most of
the ones that come with the program
(many are of the Velvet Elvis School of Art) in favor of a small group I cre
ated myself. Simple textured mats,
one with my copyright and logo, a Polaroid frame, a slide mount, etc. Easy
to use if, for example, you're
putting together a PowerPoint or slide presentation and want to unify the
group of images (can even add it to a batch
process)
Don't get me wrong-- I own, know, and use-- PS7 for many many things, and
there are lots of things that PS will do that PSP doesn't. (For $400 more,
there ought to be!) But if you have it and the hard drive space, why not
keep it?
OTOH, if you have both PS7 and Elements 2, I'd uninstall Elements. There's
not much there that isn't in its big brother simply because they came from
the same company.
Farlo
> OTOH, if you have both PS7 and Elements 2, I'd uninstall Elements.
> There's not much there that isn't in its big brother simply because
> they came from the same company.
Also, it's worth buying Photoshop Album. For the hobbyist photographer, you
could even buy this by itself instead of the other packages.
--
Farlo, the Urban Fey Dragon
The difference between the average man and the average chimpanzee is about
30 IQ points and some DNA. Are you blurring the line?
PEmpson181
>Photoshop
>well and haven't used PSP. Is there any reason to keep PSP or should I
>uninstall it?
Definitely keep it if you have room. With PSP you can use tubes! I made a
slide show after adding tubes to the pictures. In case you don't know what
tubes are, do a search on Yahoo and take a look at the tube sites.
Uni
> "Bill Hilton" <bhilt...@aol.comedy> wrote in message
> news:20030813152004...@mb-m05.aol.com...
>
>>My latest computer has a free bundled copy of PSP installed. I know
>
> Photoshop
>
>>well and haven't used PSP. Is there any reason to keep PSP or should I
>>uninstall it?
>
>
> Difficult question. The answer depends on what you need from the program, as
> always ;-) Well, several good reasons to keep PSP (I'm talking about version
> 8, the latest one) could be:
>
> 1) PSP's "Background Eraser" is much more "adaptive ", accurate and easy to
> use than PS's one. For now, I'd never go to PS for using such a tool - it's
> much more easy to do in PSP.
In reality, by the time you "adjust" this "Background Eraser", you could
have had the job accomplished, with Photoshop.
Besides, PSP is full of bugs.
Uni
Uni
Behave, Slobberon.
:-)
Back to the kiddy software group with you! --->
:-)
Uni
>
>
>
Uni
> some PSP things that PS either doesn't do or doesn't do as
> quickly/easily/simply
Yes, like this:
http://www.angelfire.com/empire/abpsp/uni_stuff/bad-psp-hsl.jpg
An example why professional photographers wouldn't think of using Paint
Shop Pro, because its HSL is grotesque at desaturating color.
Uni
JP Kabala
and the picture is from a test during the beta.
Even then it was a User error, not a bug. The only way you can make
PSP reproduce that result is if you use the desaturation brush
with soft edges and intentionally miss some spots.
And BTW, the Channel Mixer produces a much
better B&W from color (better contrast, more controllable)
than just scribbling all over the surface with a desaturation
brush in EITHER application. The brush (Desaturation in PSP,
Sponge in PS) is designed for adjusting the saturation of small
discrete areas, not wholesale conversion to grayscale...
Ultimately, it is not the tool that matters, but the skill of
the artist using it. Ever seen the things Bert Monroy did
with the comparatively primitive application Pixel Paint
more than a dozen years ago?
http://www.bertmonroy.com/archive/text/pixelpaint.htm
OTOH, with sophisticated SOTA tools, Uni produces
(and, more amazingly, brags about) things that look like this
http://www.angelfire.com/empire/abpsp/uni_stuff/unidog2.gif
Your honor, I rest my case.
JPK
Mauves ovriers ne trovera ja bon hostill.
A bad workman will never find a good tool. (French
proverb, late 13th C. )
A bungler cannot find (or fit himselfe with) good tooles.
(R. Congrave, _French-English Dictionary_, 1611)
Never had ill workman good tooles.
(G. Herbert, _Outlandish Proverbs_, 1640)
'Tis an ill workman that quarrels with his own tools.
(D'Urfey, tr. _Don Quixote_, 1696)
They say an ill workman never had good tools.
(J. Swift, _Polite Conversation_, 1738)
"Uni" <no.e...@no.email.invalid> wrote in message
news:3F3E18EF...@no.email.invalid...
Uni
> Ignore this BS. Uni is a Troll with a anti-Jasc obsession
> and the picture is from a test during the beta.
Face it, JPK, the ONLY reason you TRY to sell people on PSP is because
Jasc made you a poster child on their site.
Stop lying about its superior quality.
Uni http://www.angelfire.com/empire/abpsp/uni_stuff/free_software_links.html
Jackie Laderoute
wrote:
[snip]
>OTOH, with sophisticated SOTA tools, Uni produces
>(and, more amazingly, brags about) things that look like this
>http://www.angelfire.com/empire/abpsp/uni_stuff/unidog2.gif
>
>Your honor, I rest my case.
Now, JP - that's hardly fair. You used one of his better efforts,
hardly indicative of his general level of "artistry".
http://www.angelfire.com/empire/abpsp/uni_stuff/uni-page.html gives
his entire "range". If any of it looks at all competent, you can be
sure it is stolen/borrowed from someone else and passed off as his own
creation (animating other people's 3D models is his favoured party
trick). He's learned well from his mentor there.
Jackie
--
< o \"/ Don't play cat and mouse with me! PSP 8 Private Beta (
---@ ) Watch for PSP8 classes at http://www.lvsonline.com ()-()
< o /"\ Jackie Laderoute jflad...@shaw.ca (o o)
*****************************************************************/\o/\
Uni
> On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 17:12:12 GMT, "JP Kabala" <jka...@earthlink.net>
> wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
>>OTOH, with sophisticated SOTA tools, Uni produces
>>(and, more amazingly, brags about) things that look like this
>>http://www.angelfire.com/empire/abpsp/uni_stuff/unidog2.gif
>>
>>Your honor, I rest my case.
>
>
> Now, JP - that's hardly fair. You used one of his better efforts,
> hardly indicative of his general level of "artistry".
>
> http://www.angelfire.com/empire/abpsp/uni_stuff/uni-page.html gives
> his entire "range". If any of it looks at all competent, you can be
> sure it is stolen/borrowed from someone else and passed off as his own
> creation (animating other people's 3D models is his favoured party
> trick). He's learned well from his mentor there.
Funny, I don't see you two amateurish graphics individuals producing 3D.
Maybe you two should learn 3D and video, rather than eat all the time.
:-)
Uni
>
> Jackie
>
nospam
program and has many things that Photoshop is lacking. The new scripting
setup for PSP is simply awesome.
Frankly, I feel that Photoshop is falling behind. If things don't pick up
soon and Adobe doesn't bite the bullet and start doing some major work on
Photoshop it will continue to the point where it is where Illustrator was a
few years ago. Fortunately Adobe saw what was happening and has working on
getting Illustrator up to speed. I hope they see how old Photoshop is
starting to look and work on it.
But, this is just my opinion and is based mostly on the poor Photoshop 7
upgrade which was really 6.5. And, from what I have seen and heard of
Photoshop 8 we have 7.5 and not 8 with it. So only time will tell.
R
JP Kabala
"nospam" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:vjt40fg...@corp.supernews.com...
> Well, all of this aside. Both programs have a lot to offer. PSP 8 is a
great
> program and has many things that Photoshop is lacking. The new scripting
<snip>
Exactly.
Scripting, Selections, Warp Tools, and (I forgot to mention these before)
the built-in lens and perspective correction stuff would be EXCELLENT tools
no matter where they come from. In a program that sells for less than
$100, they're amazing.
PSP still has some growing to do for high-end print work--
(No Pantone, for one thing and no Mac version)
but in a world where **plugins*** like Dreamsuite cost nearly
twice what PSP does, it is a very good tool and a good value.
Uni
> "nospam" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:vjt40fg...@corp.supernews.com...
>
>>Well, all of this aside. Both programs have a lot to offer. PSP 8 is a
>
> great
>
>>program and has many things that Photoshop is lacking. The new scripting
>>setup for PSP is simply awesome.'
>
> <snip>
> Exactly.
> Scripting, Selections, Warp Tools,
Oh, hush. All that stuff was available in GIMP, which is free, way
before Pee Ess Pee 8.
It's sad that some little software company had to put a price tag on
their software.
Uni
nospam
but you want to turn a daylight image in to night with rain, etc. it is
quick, easy and does a great job. I treat it also like I would a plug-in.
R
"JP Kabala" <jka...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:bux%a.17424$BC2....@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
Bill Hilton
Nothing that was said seemed very useful to the way I work so I uninstalled
Paint Shop Pro, but thanks anyway.
Bill
JP Kabala
Photoshop for?
"Bill Hilton" <bhilt...@aol.comedy> wrote in message
news:20030817103557...@mb-m01.aol.com...
Bill Hilton
>> Nothing that was said seemed very useful to the way I work so I
>> uninstalled Paint Shop Pro, but thanks anyway.
>From: "JP Kabala" jka...@earthlink.net
>
>Now you've made me curious..... the PSP issue totally aside, what do you
>use Photoshop for?
Probably 90% for editing photos (film scans and, increasingly, digital camera
images) for printing on a LightJet or an Epson printer, maybe 5% for web stuff
(with Image Ready), maybe 5% for drawing or goofing around (with Corel
Painter). I've learned Photoshop well enough to pass the "Adobe Certified
Expert" exam so would only keep PSP around if it did something uniquely useful
and interesting, which it appears it does not.
Bill
JP Kabala
absolutely essential because I never used them and wanted
space for other things. I got ruthless with my plug-ins not
long ago and really cleaned house. One thing that didn't make the cut,
for example, was Corel Knock Out, which never, IMO, justified
the price I paid for it.
Incidentally, despite the comments of a troll who shall remain
nameless, I don't work for Jasc and have no real vested interest.
I'm just a software junkie. Some women buy shoes when they're
stressed, I'm more likely to buy software. LOL
I use, teach and support a rather wide range of applications
for my clients.(many of which have nothing whatsoever to
do with graphics) Though I'm somewhat infamous for not particularly
liking Elements--but that's mostly because I am spoiled. (Like
you, I own, use and like Photoshop 7, Illustrator 10 and Painter
(though an older Metacreations version. I haven't upgraded yet)
Combined, they are a comprehensive group of tools. Not everyone
out there has all three, has the $1000+ in cash to invest in them,
needs all that horsepower or has the skill to use them or the time
to master the learning curves:-) And I loathe the Ulead stuff.
It looks and feels like tinkertoys.
No sales pitch implied. If your version of PSP is 7 or earlier, there
isn't much that isn't covered by the stuff you already have, with the
exception
of some pretty good noise reduction filters that often come in handy,
particularly for digital photos. I'm a more impressed by 8, particularly
for photo work, because of the distortion and perspective correction
tools and the scripting, which really is much more user friendly than
Actions and Droplets.
Now, if anyone can recommend a really good plug-in or technique
to get rid of the magenta sky/water noise you see in digital photos at
times,
I'm all ears.
>
Toby Thain
> On 13 Aug 2003 19:20:04 GMT, bhilt...@aol.comedy (Bill Hilton)
> wrote:
>
> >My latest computer has a free bundled copy of PSP installed. I know Photoshop
> >well and haven't used PSP. Is there any reason to keep PSP or should I
> >uninstall it?
> >
> >I also got a free copy of Elements 2 with a digital camera and it allows you to
> >create panoramas by auto-stitching images together. Does PSP do any thing like
> >create montages or whatever that might make it worth keeping?
> >
> >Bill
>
> which Photoshop cannot do (so you're forced to change to greyscale
> mode if you want to rotate a line drawing in PS).
Photoshop 3.0.4 and later certainly can rotate a bitmap - that's
around 9 years old now. Photoshop 1.0 cannot. (I don't have Photoshop
2.x handy so can't speak for that version.)
T
>
> There are probably some other things that PSP does differently.
>
> If you're not strapped for space, why not just keep it around a while?
>
>
> -- JC
nospam
You want awesome noise reduction take a look at Neat Image
(http://www.neatimage.com). I just got this one and can't believe how
awesome it works. It is standalone or plug-in for Photoshop. A little slow
but worth the wait I was floored when I applied it to my first image.
Normally the samples companies show are based on best case sinerios which
seldom apply to real world images. Well Neat Image works on real world
images.
R
nospam
He said one color bitmaps. That would be black and white only. I can't say
if PS can or not as I don't work with black and white images very often and
if I do I normally convert to RGB before doing anything with them anyways.
R
JP Kabala
the number of colors as 3-
but, FWIW, there is a little more control and there are some more options
(which algorithm to choose) in PSP and you can force 2 colors (PS won't
accept a number lower than 3)
But PS has some different options, like being able to specify a color in
place
of the black.
I guess it depends on how often you need to do this how important it is to
you.
There's probably some really technical reason to do this that I'm not aware
of but it does produce some interesting images-- sort of a monochrome
pointillism.
"nospam" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:vk234dj...@corp.supernews.com...
Uni
> J C <nu...@nowhere.net> wrote in message news:<lqM6P6+JaBkLJR=etOyiT...@4ax.com>...
>
>>On 13 Aug 2003 19:20:04 GMT, bhilt...@aol.comedy (Bill Hilton)
>>wrote:
>>
>>
>>>My latest computer has a free bundled copy of PSP installed. I know Photoshop
>>>well and haven't used PSP. Is there any reason to keep PSP or should I
>>>uninstall it?
>>>
>>>Basically, are there any useful things it does that PS doesn't? For instance,
>>>I also got a free copy of Elements 2 with a digital camera and it allows you to
>>>create panoramas by auto-stitching images together. Does PSP do any thing like
>>>create montages or whatever that might make it worth keeping?
>>>
>>>Bill
>>
>>PSP (at least the old version I had) could rotate one color bitmaps,
>>which Photoshop cannot do (so you're forced to change to greyscale
>>mode if you want to rotate a line drawing in PS).
>
>
> Photoshop 3.0.4 and later certainly can rotate a bitmap - that's
> around 9 years old now.
I thought so. PSPers aren't too bright.
Uni
Toby Thain
The OP and myself are indeed referring to "one colour" or "black and
white" bitmaps (1 bit/pixel). I actually tested my assertion before
posting. Photoshop 3.0.4 and later can rotate 1-bit bitmaps.
Toby
>
> R
Toby Thain
> J C <nu...@nowhere.net> wrote in message news:<lqM6P6+JaBkLJR=etOyiT...@4ax.com>...
> > On 13 Aug 2003 19:20:04 GMT, bhilt...@aol.comedy (Bill Hilton)
> > wrote:
> >
> > >My latest computer has a free bundled copy of PSP installed. I know Photoshop
> > >well and haven't used PSP. Is there any reason to keep PSP or should I
> > >uninstall it?
> > >
> > >Basically, are there any useful things it does that PS doesn't? For instance,
> > >I also got a free copy of Elements 2 with a digital camera and it allows you to
> > >create panoramas by auto-stitching images together. Does PSP do any thing like
> > >create montages or whatever that might make it worth keeping?
> > >
> > >Bill
> >
> > PSP (at least the old version I had) could rotate one color bitmaps,
> > which Photoshop cannot do (so you're forced to change to greyscale
> > mode if you want to rotate a line drawing in PS).
>
> Photoshop 3.0.4 and later certainly can rotate a bitmap - that's
> around 9 years old now. Photoshop 1.0 cannot. (I don't have Photoshop
> 2.x handy so can't speak for that version.)
To clarify: I mean by 90 degree increments, not arbitrary angles.
T
Chris Cox
Thain <to...@telegraphics.com.au> wrote:
> J C <nu...@nowhere.net> wrote in message
> news:<lqM6P6+JaBkLJR=etOyiT...@4ax.com>...
> > On 13 Aug 2003 19:20:04 GMT, bhilt...@aol.comedy (Bill Hilton)
> > wrote:
> >
> > >My latest computer has a free bundled copy of PSP installed. I know
> > >Photoshop
> > >well and haven't used PSP. Is there any reason to keep PSP or should I
> > >uninstall it?
> > >
> > >Basically, are there any useful things it does that PS doesn't? For
> > >instance,
> > >I also got a free copy of Elements 2 with a digital camera and it allows
> > >you to
> > >create panoramas by auto-stitching images together. Does PSP do any thing
> > >like
> > >create montages or whatever that might make it worth keeping?
> > >
> > >Bill
> >
> > PSP (at least the old version I had) could rotate one color bitmaps,
> > which Photoshop cannot do (so you're forced to change to greyscale
> > mode if you want to rotate a line drawing in PS).
>
> Photoshop 3.0.4 and later certainly can rotate a bitmap - that's
> around 9 years old now. Photoshop 1.0 cannot. (I don't have Photoshop
> 2.x handy so can't speak for that version.)
He's talking about BitMap mode -- 1 bit graphics, and arbitrary
rotations.
No software can accurately do an arbitrary rotation in BitMap mode
(because there are no intermediate values available for interpolation).
PSP just converts to grayscale, rotates, and converts back to bitmap --
with the associated (serious) loss of detail that goes with such a
transform and no controls available to the user to reduce the loss.
I prefer not to lie to the users, and let each user make up their own
mind about how to convert such images.
Chris