Converting CMYK to 2-color
Andres Gonzalez
I have a question. I'm trying to convert a CMYK file into a 2-color file
(Black + PMS 275). I've tried going through the channels but I can't get
grey with my black. It just deletes it. Is there an easier way other than
going through the channels. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Lugh-Clyde
about?
Clyde
TacitR
>(Black + PMS 275). I've tried going through the channels but I can't get
>grey with my black. It just deletes it. Is there an easier way other than
>going through the channels.
In Photoshop, a spot-color channel is always treated as a special case of an
alpha channel. You must work in channels to create spot-color objects in
Photoshop.
To create a spot-color file from a CMYK file is a nontrivial task; often it is
easier to start from scratch and re-create the file correctly.
In general, the process of making a black-and-275 file in Photoshop will go
something like this:
Create a new document, the same size and resolution as your CMYK file. Make the
new document grayscale, not CMYK or RGB.
From the Channels palette flyout menu, choose New Spot Channel. Select Pantone
275 as the color.
In the Channels palette, switch to the Black channel.
In the CMYK file, select the objects which should be black,a nd copy-paste or
drag them into the Black channel of your new document.
Switch to the Pantone channel.
In the CMYK document, select the objects which should be Pantone 275, and
copy-paste or drag them into the new document.
Selecting only the appropriate parts of the CMYK image can be difficult; theis
is where it may be easier to re-create the image, depending on the complexity
of the CMYK image.
In any event, when you are finished, save the 2-color image as a DCS2.0 file.
Note that spot colors are special cases of alpha channels; this means, you
cannot work in layers in a spot color.
------
Onyx, the game of sexual exploration; Xero, the industrial magazine
of art, fiction and photography; and online photo gallery--all at
http://www.xeromag.com/franklin.html
Tim Monk
Gonzalez" <Mari...@email.msn.com> wrote:
>I have a question. I'm trying to convert a CMYK file into a 2-color file
>(Black + PMS 275). I've tried going through the channels but I can't get
>grey with my black. It just deletes it. Is there an easier way other than
>going through the channels.
You didn't mention if the file is intended to be a photographic image, or if
it is in fact, a logo or illustration. If photo, simply converting it to a
duotone would work just fine in most cases.
_________________________________________________________________________
>>On 3/27/01 12:59 PM, in article 20010327125912...@ng-fi1.aol.com,
"TacitR" <tac...@aol.com> wrote:
<much helpful advice snipped--see TacitR's post>
>> In any event, when you are finished, save the 2-color image as a DCS2.0 file.
If the file is a logo or illustration TacitR's solution would be okay if it
is intended for output using a pre-separated workflow. My recent experiences
tell me that many print shops are moving toward In-RIP separations.
Unfortunately DCS2.0 files may present problems with trapping (maybe other
issues) when separations and trap are done at the RIP, as is our case.
Our solution is almost identical to TacitR's, but it involves working in
CMYK and eliminates the need for the problematic DCS2.0 format. Choose C, M,
or Y as your spot channel and follow TacitR's previous instructions using
the chosen channel rather than an actual Spot Channel. This allows the file
to be saved as Tif or EPS, while also allowing the RIP to do the separation
and trapping. Of course, you'll be in for a little Photoshop work, and
you'll need to use the chosen color (C, M, or Y) in your layout application
instead of the Spot color. Be sure to tell your print shop to print that
color in the desired Spot.
Logos are intended to be used in many undeterminable output methods. If the
file you are working with is a logo, the _best_ workaround isn't a
workaround at all. As TacitR mentioned in his previous post, the _best_
alternative is to recreate the artwork. But he neglected to mention that he
meant recreating the artwork in a program designed for this, such as
Illustrator, or Freehand. The aforementioned applications create vector
information that allows the ability to easily change colors, as well as the
ability of scaling without image degradation. A Photoshop created logo is
limited to its image size forever. Because a logo may be used in ways which
aren't even considered during creation it's best to avoid as many
limitations as humanly (or technically) possible.
I wish you luck with this current assignment. I hope all goes well. Let us
know if you need more advice.
Tim Monk
Jane Krate Duda
(snip)
In any event, when you are finished, save the 2-color image as a DCS2.0 file.
Is this the only file type that is capable of containing the spot color info? (not
EPS?). Do you know if the DCS2.0 format can be correctly placed into page layout
progs and output to film? I just ordered my PS6 upgrade and am very interested in
the spot color (not duotones, with which I am thoroughly familiar) channel
capablilities.
Any advice?
TIA
Jane
Helmut P. Einfalt
info? (not
>EPS?).
DCS basically *is* an EPS file, consisting of one EPS per color channel
*and* a preview file for placement in layxout programs.
The difference is that if you place a standard EPS file containing spot
color information in your layout program, there is a fair chance that
your layout program will separate *that* one into CMYK again when you go
for the output stage, and that's not exactly what you'd want, is it?
The Desktop Color Separation (DCS) is pre-separated and hence less prone
to errors...
Helmut
--
My unconscious knows more about the consciousness of the psychologist
than his consciousness knows about my unconscious (Karl Kraus)
Jane Krate Duda
program separate my spot color EPS files into CMYK. I always import the spot
colors. Et voila! There they appear in my colors palette. I do like the idea
of pre-separated files, though.
Cheers,
Jane
Helmut P. Einfalt
layout
>program separate my spot color EPS files into CMYK. I always import the
spot
>colors. Et voila! There they appear in my colors palette. I do like the
idea
>of pre-separated files, though.
Ah, but if you have, say, a couple of duotones (*.EPS) in your layout,
and they come in default Pantone black plus whatsoever, and you do *not*
want to have extra plates for the black, you're likely to hit "spot
colors to CMYK" in, say, PageMaker's separtion menu -- and there you are
(*I* know -- been there, done it... <g> )
Unless one makes a mistake, *.EPS spot colors will not automatically
separate into CMYK. But if you have some sixty instances of EPS that you
*want* to separate, you're quite likely to forget about that *one* you
don't (maybe not you, but me -- getting older, I am...), and in these
instances it is nice to have a pre-separated file that will *not* react
to the spot-to-CMYK command...
TacitR
>info? (not EPS?).
DCS2.0, and DCS1.0, are special cases of EPS files.
A DCS1.0 file is a pre-separated EPS raster file. A DCS2.0 file is an EPS
raster file which adds suport for additional color plates.
DCS2.0 files are not necessarily pre-separated; you can create a DCS2.0 file
that is a single file, rather than a preview file plus a set of pre-separated
color channel files.
A regular, plain-Jane EPS file can contain spot colors, provided it is a vector
file. However, a raster EPS file can't contain spot channels. For that, only a
DCS2.0 file will work.
TacitR
>*and* a preview file for placement in layxout programs.
>The difference is that if you place a standard EPS file containing spot
>color information in your layout program, there is a fair chance that
>your layout program will separate *that* one into CMYK again when you go
>for the output stage, and that's not exactly what you'd want, is it?
That's not necessarily true. A DCS1.0 file is a pre-separated set of files, but
a DCS2.0 file does not have to be; it can be created as a single file or as a
pre-separated set of files. (I prefer single-file DCS2 format.)
A regular EPS file cannot contain spot color information, if the file is a
raster file rather than a vector file; such an EPS will always separate out
CMYK, because creating such a file as a spot-color file is not an option. (Give
it a try; you don't even have the option of saving a spot-channel image as an
EPS or DCS1 file in Photoshop.)
Note that a spot-color file is distinct from a duotone, which CAN be saved as
an EPS. A duotone is merely a grayscale image printed several times on top of
itself in several different colors of ink. The entire image is printed in each
color of ink; you can't have, for example, a duotone of a boy holding a
beachball where the boy is one color of ink and the beachball is another color
of ink. For that, you need a spot-channel image, not a duotone. (Many people
mistakenly believe that a "duotone" is anything that uses two colors of ink,
but this is not so.)
Jane Krate Duda
perfect. I use duotones often, but sometimes I just want "The boy in one color and
the Beach Ball in another color." It looks like PS6's spot color support will allow
me to do this without doing a workaround in my page layout prog (Which would
essentially be to copy the image, erase all but the beach ball, save it as a
separate image, and oh-so-carefully align it -- or, for a bit of funky, misalign
it. I have other interesting workarounds, too. All equally hassleful).
btw, I take exception to the plain-Jane reference ;-)
Blue skies,
not-so-plain Jane
Jane Krate Duda
*always* opt to "show filter preferences" -- it's part of my workflow and I
recommend it to all who use spot color files for eventual color separation.
This way, I am always reminded to "do the right thing." And if I can't
remember what that is, I'm out of business ;-)!
Sorry to hear you are getting older, I myself am not. This year, as a matter
of fact, I will be celebrating my tenth annual 29th birthday <g>
Cheers,
Jane
TacitR
>is perfect. I use duotones often, but sometimes I just want "The boy in one
>color and
>the Beach Ball in another color." It looks like PS6's spot color support
Yes, but at a cost. Photoshop considers a spot-color channel to be a special
case of an alpha channel. As with an alpha channel, a spot channel can't
contain a layer; you can't work in layers in your spot color.
One potential workaround, if you aren't printing CMYK, is to set up your image
in CMYK, using (for example) Black and Cyan as your two colors, and leaving the
Yellow and Magenta channels empty. When the page is assembled in your
page-layout program, you need to define your colors there using Cyan and Black
as well, of course.
I look forward to the day when Photoshop will allow one to create an image with
an arbitrary number of colors, and treat that image as it would a CMYK image;
each channel is present everywhere in teh image, and you can work freely in
layers. (Chris, are you listening?)
>(Which would
>essentially be to copy the image, erase all but the beach ball, save it
>as a separate image, and oh-so-carefully align it -- or, for a bit of funky,
>misalign it. I have other interesting workarounds, too. All equally
hassleful).
I've done that.
Here's a neat trick for doing that in Quark:
Use Edit->Colors to create a new color. Set it to process separate, 0% of C, M,
Y, and K. Call it "Overprint White." Use the Edit Taps button to make it
overprint everything by default.
Save each channel of your spot image as a separate grayscale TIFF, all at the
same size.
Import each TIFF into a Quark picture box filled with Overprint White. Pile all
the boxes exactly on top of each other. Colorize the contents of each picture
box with the appropriate color.
It will look wrong on your screen, but when you print seps, it'll separate like
a dream. The custom overprint white color will force each TIFF to overprint the
TIFF underneath it; the images won't knock out. So when it's run on press, the
image will assemble the way you want.
>btw, I take exception to the plain-Jane reference ;-)
Present company excluded, of course. :)
Jane Krate Duda
>
> One potential workaround, if you aren't printing CMYK, is to set up your image
> in CMYK, using (for example) Black and Cyan as your two colors, and leaving the
> Yellow and Magenta channels empty. When the page is assembled in your
> page-layout program, you need to define your colors there using Cyan and Black
> as well, of course.
>
I've done exactly that on many occasions. As my national client base has grown,
however, and with it my need for soft proofing, I find I need to use the actual
colors or create work twice. My clients have a hard time visualizing, say, black
and cyan as PMS 439 and 287.
>
>
> I've done that.
>
> Here's a neat trick for doing that in Quark:
>
> Use Edit->Colors to create a new color. Set it to process separate, 0% of C, M,
> Y, and K. Call it "Overprint White." Use the Edit Taps button to make it
> overprint everything by default
> <snip>
>
> It will look wrong on your screen, but when you print seps, it'll separate like
> a dream. The custom overprint white color will force each TIFF to overprint the
> TIFF underneath it; the images won't knock out. So when it's run on press, the
> image will assemble the way you want.
Oh, believe, me. I've done that, too. It's also useful for varnish plates. I use
PageMaker, primarily, and it actually has a simple script to add a varnish plate
which really justs adds a 5% yellow color called "Varnish" and sets it to
overprint.
>
> >btw, I take exception to the plain-Jane reference ;-)
>
> Present company excluded, of course. :)
>
Thank you. :-)
Jane
TacitR
>I use PageMaker, primarily, and it actually has a simple script to add a
varnish
>plate
>which really justs adds a 5% yellow color called "Varnish" and sets it to
>overprint.
Unfortunately, PageMaker (and InDesign) lack object-by-object trapping
controls, favoring global trapping controls instead. That means you can't pick
just one object and force it to overprint, while other objects that are the
same color on the same page trap; that makes it more difficult to assemblee
spot-color, hand-separated objects in PM 9you have to create a special
overprinting color that's a 100% tint of the base color, and God help you if
you use the wrong color for the wrong object).
That's one of the reasons I left PageMaker for Quark, and one of the reasons I
haven't gone to InDesign. I won't use InDesign until it has object-by-object
trapping capabilities; since I know more about how the job will be run on press
than the program does, I want the option to set my traps myself. (Hear that,
Adobe? I won't use your program until it can do this; that is non-negotiable!)
Jane Krate Duda
> Unfortunately, PageMaker (and InDesign) lack object-by-object trapping
> controls, favoring global trapping controls instead. That means you can't pick
> just one object and force it to overprint, while other objects that are the
> same color on the same page trap; that makes it more difficult to assemblee
> spot-color, hand-separated objects in PM 9you have to create a special
> overprinting color that's a 100% tint of the base color, and God help you if
> you use the wrong color for the wrong object).
You are absolutely right, of course. However, I have not encountered this
particular stumbling block with my workflow. If I have objects that have special
overprinting and trapping issues, they have to date been vector graphics that I
create (or edit) in Illustrator. I haven't found the 100% tint option to be much of
an issue or particularly cumbersome, especially since, for certain text objects or
styles, I can simply create a style using the overprint tint. Although I think I
push the DTP software pretty far, it sounds like you are called upon to do a lot
more tweaking than I have needed to.
FWIW, I left Quark for PM a few years ago, and never looked back. Until recently. I
would like to add ID or QXP to my DTP arsenal. I favor ID's type handling and
interface (as a power PM user), but I like QXP for its universality and some of its
other features. I just hate Quark as a company to deal with.
> That's one of the reasons I left PageMaker for Quark, and one of the reasons I
> haven't gone to InDesign. I won't use InDesign until it has object-by-object
> trapping capabilities; since I know more about how the job will be run on press
> than the program does, I want the option to set my traps myself. (Hear that,
> Adobe? I won't use your program until it can do this; that is non-negotiable!)
I want the option for my SBs to set traps, which so far has not been a problem.
Most of their trapping and imposition software overrides PM trapping anyway. And
they can choose traps for individual objects. I like control of my creative output,
but I do *not* want to be a Jane-of-all-Trades. I let my SBs do what they do best,
so I can do what I do best. Besides, sometimes it's nice to be able to say "make it
so..." <g>
>
Cheers,
Jane
TacitR
>particular stumbling block with my workflow. If I have objects that have
>special
>overprinting and trapping issues, they have to date been vector graphics
>that I create (or edit) in Illustrator.
I routinely (as in yearly) work on a large project with complex trapping
requirements outside of PageMaker's and InDesign's capability. The project is a
180-page, nine-color cruise catalog that's printed in several different
languages.
The main pages of the catalog are printed in CMYK with two spot colors. There
is a separate black printer (for the copy; one plate is generated in each of
the requisite languages for each page) and two metallic inks (on some pages) or
varnishes (on others; each individual page uses no more than 9 inks, but the
entire catalog uses many different spot inks and varnishes).
The trapping problems are twofold: First, the job is run on a 4-color press,
then run again for the spot colors and varnishes, then again for the metallics.
There are sections of some pages where the top half of the page is 4 color, the
bottom half is printed in Pantone inks, and a particular Pantone color might be
used for an element that touches the 4-color,a nd for a different element that
is confined to the spot-color areas in the bottom of the page.
Since the 4-color is run on a separate pass from the spot colors, the printer
wants a larger trap on any spot color which traps to CMYK than on spot color
that traps to another spot color. So I might have a spot color element with a
.244-point trap where it overlays a 4-color image, and another object printed
in the same spot ink with only a .144-point trap where it overlaps another spot
color. Since PM and ID offer only global trapping controls, I can't trap that
job properly in either program; I need Quark's object-by-object trapping.
The second problem occurs with metallic inks. Ordinarily, black type would
overprint a spot color. But metallic inks go down LAST. This wouldn't be a
problem with type that's separated onto the fifth black plate; it HAS to
overprint...but the client uses the metallic inks for iteneraries; the type on
those pages is printed in one color of ink, because it doesn't change from
language to language (except for the Arabic version, which is a whole different
kettle of fish). Since the metallic ink goes down AFTER the black, it ends up
overprinting the black if teh black type is set to overprint. You don't want
this; metallic ink is quite opaque. The black type is actually set to spread
(yeah, that's right...you thought you never spread black type? You do when
opaque silver ink is being printed on top of it!) But other type in the same
size on the same page *should* overprint, where it isn't being used over a spot
metallic ink. So you see the problem.
>I just hate Quark as a company to deal with.
Amen to that...
>I want the option for my SBs to set traps, which so far has not been a
problem.
>Most of their trapping and imposition software overrides PM trapping anyway.
For in-RIP trapping, sure. And I've used i-RIP trapping software and standalone
trapping software myself. But for complex trapping problems, it can have the
same problems that PM and ID's global trapping controls have.
>And they can choose traps for individual objects. I like control of my
creative
>output, but I do *not* want to be a Jane-of-all-Trades. I let my SBs do what
they
>do best, so I can do what I do best.
Ah, but see, that's the problem PRECISELY. I do the pre-press work to make the
jobs go properly. I started out doing service bureau work, and even now,
pre-press is still a large part of what my company does.
Jane Krate Duda
TacitR wrote:
> <snip>
> Since the 4-color is run on a separate pass from the spot colors, the printer
> wants a larger trap on any spot color which traps to CMYK than on spot color
> that traps to another spot color. So I might have a spot color element with a
> .244-point trap where it overlays a 4-color image, and another object printed
> in the same spot ink with only a .144-point trap where it overlaps another spot
> color. Since PM and ID offer only global trapping controls, I can't trap that
> job properly in either program; I need Quark's object-by-object trapping.
Out of curiosity, why not run on a 6-color press? Or is it better to have the CMYK
inks dry before laying down the metallics?
> Since the metallic ink goes down AFTER the black, it ends up
> overprinting the black if teh black type is set to overprint. You don't want
> this; metallic ink is quite opaque. The black type is actually set to spread
> (yeah, that's right...you thought you never spread black type? You do when
> opaque silver ink is being printed on top of it!) But other type in the same
> size on the same page *should* overprint, where it isn't being used over a spot
> metallic ink. So you see the problem.
Sheesh! And I thought getting a spot gloss and a spot dull coating to work together
on the same page was a challenge. Just reading your post sends me running for the
Advil.
> Ah, but see, that's the problem PRECISELY. I do the pre-press work to make the
> jobs go properly. I started out doing service bureau work, and even now,
> pre-press is still a large part of what my company does.
Okay, fair enough. I think you are much more knowledgeable about the specifics of
trapping than I, with your background in SBs. But my background is in agencies,
where there was a production manager to deal with it. When I went out on my own in
1993, I had to learn more about prepress production than I had dreamed of. And I
certainly agree that knowing the ins and outs of prepress helps me do better design
(because I am not limited by the fear of something not working on press jsut
because I don't know the software well enough). However, at this point I still do
fairly "traditional" 2 and 4-color work, sometimes with an additional color or
varnish plate or two. I hope someday to have the kind of clients who have the
budgets to do the kind of work you are describing!
Cheers,
Jane
TacitR
>the CMYK
>inks dry before laying down the metallics?
Just the opposite. The metallics are laid down before the CMYK. Laying down
metallic ink is often done on a separate pass, both because metallics can take
longer to dry, and because the pressman needs to tear down and clean the press
both before and after running the metallics. (Metallic ink has a really bad
habit of contaminating any ink that is run after it if the press isn't
thoroughly cleaned.)
>Sheesh! And I thought getting a spot gloss and a spot dull coating to work
>together
>on the same page was a challenge.
Naah; that's a cakewalk. Just did that for an annual report for Tampa
International Airport a couple of months back. Cover had a spot varnish and
dull varnish, which I did in Photoshop and saved the cover file as a six-color
DCS2. Back in the day before Photoshop supported DCS2, it would've been a bit
more difficult (part of the image got a spot varnish and part of the image,
shot through an airplane window, got gloss, so I couldn't do what I'd normally
do and create the varnish in Quark.)
>When I went out on my own in
>1993, I had to learn more about prepress production than I had dreamed of.
>And I certainly agree that knowing the ins and outs of prepress helps me do
better
>design (because I am not limited by the fear of something not working on press
>jsut because I don't know the software well enough).
I've always argued that designers should kow at least a bit about prepress, if
for no other reason than a little bit of knowledge can save you big bucks at
the service bureau. In fact, one of the many hats I wear is as an educator;
many of my clients are agencies, and I teach their designers the basics of
prepress and preflighting documents for output.
>However, at this point I still do
>fairly "traditional" 2 and 4-color work, sometimes with an additional color
>or varnish plate or two. I hope someday to have the kind of clients who have
>the budgets to do the kind of work you are describing!
Most of the clients I do work for have fairly significant budgets, which is the
way I like them. :) Unfortunately, the largest (a Fortune 500
contracting-supply company) just recently self-destructed, for very complicated
reasons involving an asbestos-related lawsuit from fifteen years ago, and all
the pieces were snapped up by other firms--who already have their own agencies.
*Sigh* Win some, lose some.
Jane Krate Duda
TacitR wrote:
> >Out of curiosity, why not run on a 6-color press? Or is it better to have
> >the CMYK
> >inks dry before laying down the metallics?
>
> Just the opposite. The metallics are laid down before the CMYK. Laying down
> metallic ink is often done on a separate pass, both because metallics can take
> longer to dry, and because the pressman needs to tear down and clean the press
> both before and after running the metallics. (Metallic ink has a really bad
> habit of contaminating any ink that is run after it if the press isn't
> thoroughly cleaned.)
Okay. That makes sense. But I seem to recall you said the metallics went down OVER
the black (therefore spread the black text). Or would that be the extra black plate
(the text-only one, I think)?
> Naah; that's a cakewalk. Just did that for an annual report for Tampa
> International Airport a couple of months back. Cover had a spot varnish and
> dull varnish, which I did in Photoshop and saved the cover file as a six-color
> DCS2. Back in the day before Photoshop supported DCS2, it would've been a bit
> more difficult (part of the image got a spot varnish and part of the image,
> shot through an airplane window, got gloss, so I couldn't do what I'd normally
> do and create the varnish in Quark.)
Actually, I should have said spot gloss and dull UV. The printer that ran the job
said their coatings expert did not think it could be done, though it could be (and
was, in the end) done with film. This was a large printing company, used to
printing books and their covers, so I felt they probably knew something about it.
Was I "had?"
>
> I've always argued that designers should kow at least a bit about prepress, if
> for no other reason than a little bit of knowledge can save you big bucks at
> the service bureau. In fact, one of the many hats I wear is as an educator;
> many of my clients are agencies, and I teach their designers the basics of
> prepress and preflighting documents for output.
Yes, I, too teach other designers (and, here in central VT, sometimes small-run
printers) the basics of preflight and prepress. Coming from an agency background to
being a solo flyer, I found (especially in ther early years) that it was "sink or
swim" when it came to digital production. Gone were the days of type spec'ing, of
having production managers, of being able to do work manually and know it would
come out right (but hey, I can still draw a mean keyline. What a *valuable* skill
THAT is). So I am certainly not arguing with any of your points. I admire your
seemingly encyclopaedic knowledge of what it takes to get complex jobs done (and I
thought *I* knew sumpin...).
> >However, at this point I still do
> >fairly "traditional" 2 and 4-color work, sometimes with an additional color
> >or varnish plate or two. I hope someday to have the kind of clients who have
> >the budgets to do the kind of work you are describing!
>
> Most of the clients I do work for have fairly significant budgets, which is the
> way I like them. :) Unfortunately, the largest (a Fortune 500
> contracting-supply company) just recently self-destructed, for very complicated
> reasons involving an asbestos-related lawsuit from fifteen years ago, and all
> the pieces were snapped up by other firms--who already have their own agencies.
> *Sigh* Win some, lose some.
One of the principals at Pentagram (I forget which one, a woman) said she used to
practice by looking in the mirror and saying, "That will be $100,000, please." She
did it until she could say it "like she meant it." I have found that, as my skills
increase, I am increasingly confident about raising prices. And doing so also ups
the calibre of my clients. It weeds out those who are not ready to do the kind of
work *I* want to do.
Yippee! All good things in time.
Jane
TacitR
And, reading my post again, I realize that my brains must've melted and slipped
out my ears. I'm so accustomed to printing metallics being backward--the
metallics overprint black--that when I read your message, I turned it around in
my head.
You had it exactly right, of course, The CMYK goes down first, and then the
metallics. Duh. Guess it must be the Alzheimer's creeping up on me. :)
Jane Krate Duda
not-quite-2 year old. Who, by the way, can identify lots of colors, including
"beige." ...but has a hard time pronouncing "Magenta." well, there's still time).
ANyway, it makes more sense now.
Sleepily,
Jane
with still a couple more hours' work ahead...
TacitR
>the job said their coatings expert did not think it could be done, though it
could
>be (and was, in the end) done with film. This was a large printing company,
used
>to printing books and their covers, so I felt they probably knew something
>about it.
>Was I "had?"
While I can't think of any theoretical reason offhand why this can't be done,
I'm reluctant to try to second-guess the printer; they've seen the job and I
haven't. In general, my first impulse is to trust what the pressman tells me,
if I know and trust the printing company.
>Coming from an agency background to
>being a solo flyer, I found (especially in ther early years) that it was
>"sink or swim" when it came to digital production. Gone were the days of type
spec'ing,
>of having production managers, of being able to do work manually and know it
>would
>come out right (but hey, I can still draw a mean keyline. What a *valuable*
>skill THAT is). So I am certainly not arguing with any of your points.
Yeah, the days of insular specialization are over. Time was when the designer
knew nothing about production, the scanner operator knew nothing about
prepress, the stripper knew nothing about scanning, and so on. Now, the service
bureaus and trade shops are getting squeezed from both sides; agencies are
becoming more savvy about prepress, and big printers are beginning to go
direct-to-plate and bringing the prepress, output, and even scanning in-house.
>One of the principals at Pentagram (I forget which one, a woman) said she
>used to
>practice by looking in the mirror and saying, "That will be $100,000, please."
>She did it until she could say it "like she meant it."
Good skill to have. My once-largest and now self-desctructed client did a logo
redesign last year (gave it to another firm, not me, dammit) that they paid
just a skosh over $100,000 for. Frankly, I would've done a better job than the
firm that did it, but that's all water under the bridge. At any rate, my days
of making $700 and $800 for little logos for mom-and-pop diners and corner
print shacks are long behind me; I prefer to work for clients who know exactly
what's involved in logo work, and how expensive it is. Most of the time, seven
hundred dollars just plain don't cut it for professional logo design.
> I have found that, as my skills
>increase, I am increasingly confident about raising prices. And doing so
>also ups
>the calibre of my clients. It weeds out those who are not ready to do the
>kind of work *I* want to do.
Exactly! When designers undercharge for their work, they hurt themselves, and
they hurt their clients. They also ensure that they'll never rise above the
really low-level work. Big clients won't even consider going to someone who
charges a pittance for design work, for the same reason that people won't
consider buying a car that the dealer offers to sell them for $200--if you're
paying that little, you just KNOW there is something wrong with what you're
getting.