Advice on large print - PLEASE
Ralph King
wall hanging. I have an HP 970Cse which makes satisfactory 8x10 prints. I
want to devide my image into 4 sheets (mounted) to get a 16x20 picture.
There are several methods of making four sections each on seperate files.
Has anyone here used this approach sucessfully? If so what are the the traps
I must watch for?
Ralph
Ronald Vick
wrote:
Let's see, the minimum resolution I'd recommend for a print is 200
pixels per inch (and no, that's not the same as DPI!)
More is slightly better on most printers, but you'll almost never see
any improvement beyond 300 pixels per inch, so shoot for an image
around 250 x 16 and 250 x 20 or 4,000 x 5,000 pixels.
Don't try to exactly match an edge to an edge of print. That may work
for web sites, but it's a pain when you're trying to match four sheets
of paper. I can print a little wider than 8 x 10 on my printer, and
that gives me a little overlap on the edges I cut with a paper cutter.
Makes for an edge you can detect up close, but at least I can get a
perfect image match. You can waste a lot of prints with real ease
with a paper cutter, and I won't even talk about sissors.
Incidently, the absolute best way I've found to do it is with a steel
straight edge, a really sharp X-acto knife, patience and a steady
hand. It takes a lot of practice keeping that cut at a right angle
while following the edge, but a good cut can create an exact match.
Watch out for gluing the edges! I use a rubber glue that works for
the paper I use. (and please keep it away from any edge that shows!
You won't believe the mess that some glues can do to Photo paper!
Try it on a test scrap before you try it on a dollar a sheet couple of
pages!
Let me know how your results turn out. I'm still looking for the
ideal way to do it.
Ron
Ronald Vick
<Ron...@nospam.cfl.rr.com> wrote:
...
>Watch out for gluing the edges! I use a rubber glue that works for
>the paper I use. (and please keep it away from any edge that shows!
>You won't believe the mess that some glues can do to Photo paper!
PS- I usually mount such large prints on a product I get from the art
supply shops, Foam Board.
It's two layers of cardboard, with styrofoam between, and about a
quarter of an inch thick. Fairly lightweight and makes for a good
mount for the prints.
Ron
Uni
Ron,
Good advice here! I have never done this myself, but I'd head in the
directions you specified. However, I'm not sure if I'd use glue, fearing
it might saturate the paper and bleed through later. I'd probably try
tape on the back instead, even though it doesn't allow the freedom of
alignment as glue does.
Uni
>
> Ron
Ronald Vick
Rubber glue was created just for this purpose. The solvents in it
evaporate quickly, and are not water based. On most paper surfaces
it'll just rub off. It doesn't hold as securely as you'd sometimes
like, but the fact it's non-damaging to most paper products makes it
priceless.
I'd still try it on the printer paper's print side to see what it
does, prior to use, though. Some of the photo papers we use are
extremely sensitive to anything, including a drop of sweat! (yes, even
after the print has dried!)
With the paper I use, I haven't noticed any bleeding from the reverse,
Kodak Premium, 59 lb/220 g/m2
Ron
Uni
Okay! I'm familiar with rubber glue! I assume you coat both the back of
the prints and the surface your attaching them too.
>
> I'd still try it on the printer paper's print side to see what it
> does, prior to use, though. Some of the photo papers we use are
> extremely sensitive to anything, including a drop of sweat! (yes, even
> after the print has dried!)
Been there! Even fingerprints can be a disaster!!
>
> With the paper I use, I haven't noticed any bleeding from the reverse,
> Kodak Premium, 59 lb/220 g/m2
Not sure this is the paper I use, but I know it's one of Kodak's finest!
Actually, Epson make a high quality Premium ink jet paper which does
fantastic things with prints. It tends to have the feel of a rubbery
surface on the print side. Not a sign of striping on a solid color
background!
Thanks, Ron!
Uni
>
> Ron
Ralph King
When I was in photo school back in the 70's I did this with B/W
enlargenents. The paper was much thicker and substantial than photo paper
for an inkjet. We always made each print so there was an overlap, then used
exacto knives to cut through both sections after first aligning and securing
the sections so they could not move, then we glued the edges last. With the
thick paper we did not glue the entire surface. It worked and I still have
some of the pictures we made then.
Problem: how do I seperate the picture into 4 sections with overlap. It
sounds as if you just positioned the oversize print somehow on the paper you
used with your print properties set to print as much as possible? Did you
use print multiple images from PSP? My printer says 8x10.5 max, should I
just make my print just a little smaller to assure an overlap? It looks like
there is an edge that won't print.
I thought about using image slicer but that would not leave an overlap.
Ralph
"Ronald Vick" <Ron...@nospam.cfl.rr.com> wrote in message
news:t1gc3u09cnns1lgac...@4ax.com...
Angela M. Cable
> Good advice here! I have never done this myself, but I'd head in the
> directions you specified. However, I'm not sure if I'd use glue, fearing
> it might saturate the paper and bleed through later. I'd probably try
> tape on the back instead, even though it doesn't allow the freedom of
> alignment as glue does.
If it's going to be permanently mounted to foam board, might as well do
it right. Take it to a frame shop, they'll have a dry mount press and
much better equipment for getting the thing cut and lined up properly.
They'll use a double-stick kind of film looking stuff (have no idea what
it's actually called). The print will be perfectly flat and you won't
get edges curling up later.
--
Angela M. Cable
http://www.neocognition.com
PSP Tutorial Links:
http://www.psplinks.com
5th Street Studio, free graphics, websets and more:
http://www.fortunecity.com/westwood/alaia/354/
Ronald Vick
<ca...@allwest.net> wrote:
>Uni wrote:
>
>> Good advice here! I have never done this myself, but I'd head in the
>> directions you specified. However, I'm not sure if I'd use glue, fearing
>> it might saturate the paper and bleed through later. I'd probably try
>> tape on the back instead, even though it doesn't allow the freedom of
>> alignment as glue does.
>
>
>If it's going to be permanently mounted to foam board, might as well do
>it right. Take it to a frame shop, they'll have a dry mount press and
>much better equipment for getting the thing cut and lined up properly.
>They'll use a double-stick kind of film looking stuff (have no idea what
>it's actually called). The print will be perfectly flat and you won't
>get edges curling up later.
You have services available that I don't. Here, if it isn't a
standard matting, they have no idea of what you want.
(And I wouldn't trust some of them to match and cut a set of prints!)
8^)
Ron
Ronald Vick
wrote:
>Thanks Ronald
>When I was in photo school back in the 70's I did this with B/W
>enlargenents. The paper was much thicker and substantial than photo paper
>for an inkjet. We always made each print so there was an overlap, then used
>exacto knives to cut through both sections after first aligning and securing
>the sections so they could not move, then we glued the edges last. With the
>thick paper we did not glue the entire surface. It worked and I still have
>some of the pictures we made then.
>Problem: how do I seperate the picture into 4 sections with overlap.
I didn't explain that, did I? When I'm going to do a large print, the
very first thing I do is define the size of the final product in
inches, then convert from inches to pixels. I work with that size
image until I get ready to print.
Let's say I was doing a 15 x 19" image. I'll need four prints to
create that, and I'll have a one half inch overlay. (the tightest I'd
want to do is with a quarter of an inch overlay.) Further, assume I
want 200 pixels per inch to my printer. This means a image of 3000 x
3800 pixels.
After all processing of the image is complete, I'll click on the
Selection tool, set the AA and Feathering off, then double click on
the tool again and define my print size of 1600 x 2000 pixels as a
selection. (in fact, this size is so common that I keep a selection
of this size saved on the hard drive.)
Save the final image in it's full size, if you haven't already.
Use move tool and right click to drag the selection into place. First
time through, it'll be in the upper left corner. Other prints will
need repositioning of the selection. Use zoom and look at the corners
to make certain the selection does NOT go off image during the move or
the selection will shrink! If it does, just reload the selection from
hard drive and proceed with the positioning.
Do a Image>Crop to Selection.
Do a File>Page Setup and set Center, print to full size (100%), Color,
and whatever else you need from here.
(once this is set for one page, it'll work for the rest, since they'll
all be the same size & orientation.
Ctrl P to print the first image.
After the image has qued up in the print que, you can load the entire
image, load the selection, move the selection to another corner, crop
to selection and hit Ctrl P to que up the next section.
Repeat until all sections are printed.
>sounds as if you just positioned the oversize print somehow on the paper you
>used with your print properties set to print as much as possible? Did you
>use print multiple images from PSP?
That print mode's only good for putting multiple images on one sheet.
I prefer the standard print mode for max flexibility.
>My printer says 8x10.5 max, should I
>just make my print just a little smaller to assure an overlap? It looks like
>there is an edge that won't print.
I think you'll have to adjust the size of the final image to what you
can print, with the size overlap you want.
Ron
baseb...@hotmail.com
how large they could be blown up. I started with an image that was
3000 x 1970 pixels and quartered it. I chose this quarter section to
print, and thought it was interesting, so I saved it as a jpg file and
posted it to
http://lightning.prohosting.com/~bb-etc/owl.jpg
Note: it's 80+K in size, and it's 100 pixels wide.
--
Cliff
baseb...@hotmail.com
Angela M. Cable
Er, standard matting generally includes dry mount if it's appropriate
for the media. I have all of my enlargements dry mounted, matted and
shrink wrapped. Fine art, I have hinge mounted, matted and shrink
wrapped, even so, I have it popped into the dry press for flattening. I
can't imagine somebody running a framing shop without a dry press, it's
pretty integral to the process. I don't worry about glass and framing
until it's ready to go somewhere besides propped up against my living
room wall :-) I've used both http://www.americanframe.com and
http://www.pictureframes.com for framing and glass, happy with both of
them. You can get the foam board and mats there too, I just like
actually seeing the corner samples against the work rather than trying
to pick a color from a maybe-maybe-not color accurate catalog swatch.
>
> (And I wouldn't trust some of them to match and cut a set of prints!)
> 8^)
Well, if that's the case, I'd just ask if I could use their cutter to do
the trimming myself and then have them prepare the foam board with the
sticky stuff. Arrange and heat tack it yourself and have them finish it
off in the press. None of the process is exactly rocket science, the
biggest part of matting and framing is keeping everything dust free and
lined up.
Ronald Vick
<ca...@allwest.net> wrote:
I'm glad you wrote that information, Angela. It's encouraged me to
look around the phone book for the services. Next time I do a
multiple print, I'll see what's available. Maybe I'm not too old to
learn something new after all. 8^)
Ron
Elizabeth Stapel
>I want to devide my image into 4 sheets
>(mounted) to get a 16x20 picture.
I don't know if this is at all helpful, but
there is a program designed for turning too-
big-for-one-standard-printer-sheet images
into posters:
Poster7
http://www.postersoftware.com/
I've used it only for a simple black-and-
white text poster, but you can try-before-
you-buy, so you can see if this might help
with what you're doing.
Eliz. Stapel
Purplemath - Your Algebra Resource!
http://www.purplemath.com/
Ralph King
You have certianly given me a path to really investigate. My first tests
were less than sucessful but then I expected that. The light weight paper is
not so easy to get aligned and I knew it would be a problem. I have heard
that hot mounting is out but some of you indicate that you have used it. I
don't have a press but I do have a heated roller system that worked well for
photos. The heat is prety well controlled so now if I can find some dry
mount tissue.
I will look to the frame shops around here to see if they can do what you
suggest. So many businesses price me right out of it. A large format printer
shop here wanted $200 to print and mount a picture basiclly this size, and
yes his work looked great but I have very limited resources and it isn't
likely to get better at my age. I am going to continue to work on a
do-it-yourself approach.
Thanks for giving me some good ideas
Ralph
"Ronald Vick" <Ron...@nospam.cfl.rr.com> wrote in message
news:2ndg3ucdbjtgclr7s...@4ax.com...
Uni
Ralph King wrote:
>
> Ronald
> You have certianly given me a path to really investigate. My first tests
> were less than sucessful but then I expected that. The light weight paper is
> not so easy to get aligned and I knew it would be a problem. I have heard
> that hot mounting is out but some of you indicate that you have used it. I
> don't have a press but I do have a heated roller system that worked well for
> photos. The heat is prety well controlled so now if I can find some dry
> mount tissue.
> I will look to the frame shops around here to see if they can do what you
> suggest. So many businesses price me right out of it. A large format printer
> shop here wanted $200 to print and mount a picture basiclly this size, and
> yes his work looked great but I have very limited resources and it isn't
> likely to get better at my age. I am going to continue to work on a
> do-it-yourself approach.
I can't blame you, Ralph. $200 is a bit ridiculous! Heck, send me the
picture and I'll plot it out on our "D" size color ink jet plotter,
where I work! :)
Uni
Angela M. Cable
>
> Ronald
> You have certianly given me a path to really investigate. My first tests
> were less than sucessful but then I expected that. The light weight paper is
> not so easy to get aligned and I knew it would be a problem. I have heard
> that hot mounting is out but some of you indicate that you have used it. I
> don't have a press but I do have a heated roller system that worked well for
> photos. The heat is prety well controlled so now if I can find some dry
> mount tissue.
> I will look to the frame shops around here to see if they can do what you
> suggest. So many businesses price me right out of it. A large format printer
> shop here wanted $200 to print and mount a picture basiclly this size, and
> yes his work looked great but I have very limited resources and it isn't
> likely to get better at my age. I am going to continue to work on a
> do-it-yourself approach.
> Thanks for giving me some good ideas
> Ralph
$200 sounds about right for a complete professional mount, mat and frame
in the size you're talking about. Most of these places are mom and pop
type operations though, if you buddy up to the owner, you can probably
get a break on labor. If you're going to be doing a lot of mounting,
matting or whatever, say so, they'll likely give you a break once you've
brought in a few pieces. If you've got a skill they need, you can
barter for the work, I built my framing guy's web site for him at no
charge, I never get charged labor and the simple matting jobs are free
:-) The reason they charge so much is that their overhead is quite
high, they have to keep in stock a hundred different colors of mat board
and rooms full of molding to cut into frames. The retail cost of a
sheet of mat board (32x40) is only about $6, multiply that by 200,
that's stock that they *have* to keep that may or may not ever sell.
Same thing with moldings, except the cost varies quite a bit by how
intricate the work in the individual style is. Good glass is not so
cheap, plus they've got to figure in the inevitable cost of breakage.
If you want to do it yourself, you can get dry mount tissue (and a
couple of other types) at:
http://www.dickblick.com
I've ordered from them, service is great, shipping is high, if you or
somebody else you know needs art supplies, combine it into one order.
You could also get a dry mount press and tacking iron there if you were
inclined, but they are definitely not cheap, looking in the print
catalog, it's $1625 for the press and $74 for the tacking iron.
Anyway, when you go to do this, figure the size of your mat *first*,
traditionally, it's 2" all around, although I personally prefer 2 1/2"
top and sides and 3" bottom, don't forget to figure in 1/4" (the mat
needs to cover the work by 1/4" all around). I'm terrible with this
sort of thing, that's why I take it to Marco to do :-) This will give
you the final outside dimensions, cut or have cut your foam board to
this. Take a straight edge and draw in the dimensions of the mat on the
foam board, you'll have a rectangle in the middle that will reflect the
edges of the finished mat. Cut your tissue to be 1/4" larger all around
than this rectangle so that if you happen to get it not quite straight
it won't matter. CLEAN the foam board with canned air (frame shops have
an air compressor to do this), run your hand lightly over the foam board
feeling for bumpy stuff, CLEAN it AGAIN and again and again if
necessary, any tiny little flake of whatever will show up as an
unsightly bump in your art work later. Apply and heat the tissue. Run
your hand over it AGAIN to feel for bumpy stuff, if there's anything
there, take an exacto knife, slit the tissue, get it out and press the
tissue back down. Clean again with canned air. Arrange your prints the
way you want them, probably you could use the tip of a household iron
(NO steam setting) to heat tack the pieces. Check it again to make SURE
it's the way you want them. Heat press it to PERMANENTLY apply.
Assuming all went well, you're ready for matting. If you're going to
order from the places I mentioned before, there are very specific
directions on the site (they have print catalogs as well that you might
want to get first) that will walk you through the way they need
dimensions given. At some point in figuring all this, you'll come up
with the numbers for the frame molding, you order these in pairs, by the
inch. Order the glass or plexiglass at the same time. Wood frames come
assembled, metal frames come with a kit, metal frames are easier to deal
with. For either, clean the glass thoroughly, when you think it's
clean, clean it again. Canned air the artwork again.
For wood, you'll need a point driver and points to hold the glass and
artwork into the frame. After you've driven two sides of the points,
flip it over and look carefully for dust under the glass, sometimes you
can get little goobers to fall to the bottom of the frame by thumping on
the glass, if that doesn't work, you'll have to tear it apart and start
over, making sure it really is clean this time, you'll have the most
trouble if you've chosen a very dark or very light mat color. Finish
driving the points. Cut a piece of brown kraft paper a couple inches
bigger all around than the frame. You can get a double stick tape
dispenser (shaped like a gun) at Ace Hardware, otherwise, you can use
white glue. Using double stick tape is easier. Run the tape or glue
around the perimeter of the back of the frame. Place the kraft paper
starting at an edge and smoothing it down as you go. Spritz the kraft
paper lightly with water and let it dry (tautens it). Press along the
edge of the frame to crease the excess kraft paper (so you know where
the edges are). Use an exacto knife to trim the excess off. Mark a
third of the way down on both sides of the frame for the hanging
hardware. Apply the hardware and hanging wire.
Metal frames are a thousand times easier. I can't remember if the
hardware comes with an instruction sheet or not, you won't need one,
it's pretty easy to look at it and figure out how to put it together,
all you need for metal frames is a screwdriver and maybe a pair of
scissors. Put three sides of the frame together using the hardware,
check to make sure the corners are fitting together right before
tightening down the screws. Slip in the cleaned glass and artwork. Fit
in the bottom piece, flip it over and check for goobers same as for the
wood frame. If it's okay, tighten down. Measure down a third of the
way for the hanging hardware and apply it.
Having said all that, there is the "el cheapo" framing method. It only
works if your finished artwork is a standard or pretty close to standard
size and you happen to have a K-Mart or Wal-Mart in town. Look before
you decide to do it, because you can't always find the right size. Take
your artwork with you in an envelope to Wally World and head for the
cheap art prints section of the store (somewhere around the home
furnishings stuff). See if you can't find something that you can tear
apart and make work. The mat will likely be glued to the print, to get
it apart, you have to use something like a putty knife to gently pry
apart. Keep in mind that you're not getting quality here though, the
frame will be cheap (probably plastic if it's large), the mat board
might tear as you pry it apart and the glass is the lowest grade
possible, but if it works out, you can end up with mat, frame and glass
for $20 or so. I do this a lot for my Polaroid transfer work, if I make
sure to add lots of "white space" around the transfer, I can almost
always find a mat/frame for it, sometimes in much more interesting
combinations than I would've thought of on my own :-)
HTH!
xalinai
There is a wonderful "removable" spray glue from 3M. I use to spray it
on the Foam Board after masking the area outside the picture. As long as
you use it one sided you can remove the pictures. If you spray both the
board and the image backside it is permanent. It doesn't bleed through,
even on thin paper (70g/m²).
One remark: Never! use! Spray! glue! indoors! <grin>