Face colour
Brian Tozer
"European American" / "White American" face when using the "Colour to
Target" method of painting over a grey-scale image?
When I use the colours suggested in a web page it doesn't look right to me,
but maybe it is just me, and a normal reaction to seeing colour on a
grey-scale image.
I would like to know what methods and colours others have found best.
Thanks
Brian Tozer
Linda Nieuwenstein
I doubt there is a "normal" skintone for all European American whites so
that is hard to answer. What might help you is to take the color from
another photo, that has a person in it who has the skintones you are looking
for.
Take care
Linda.
"Brian Tozer" <bria...@ihug.co.nz> wrote in message
news:amnfsj$aec$1...@lust.ihug.co.nz...
Fugitive
I do a lot of European skin, and there can be hundreds of tints.
Download a pic of a pleasing picture to sample from. I posted the
standard skin tone chart a lot of us use, I don't use it any more, I
just choose off the picker.
Greg
a couple a things http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4291841637
adult gallery. http://community.webshots.com/user/fugitive02
"Paintings are never finished, only abandoned" (Picasso)
Bob Dietz
You have to paint with more than one color to get it to look anything like
natural. It doesn't look right because the hue is constant.
Open a color portrait shot in PSP.
Window> Duplicate
Colors> Greyscale
Colors> Increase Color Depth> 16 Million Colors (24 Bit)
Experiment with the Color To Target Retouch tool while using
the color copy of the image as a palette for selecting the
target color (hold the CTRL key down and click)
When you pay attention there are an amazing number of colors
in those flesh tones!
Bob
Ember
<bria...@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
I find that Color To Target tool has a mind of its own when it comes
to exact hue. If you eyedropper off a skintone chart, or from another
photo, the painted colour tends to come out differently than expected.
Select another nearby colour off a skintone chart and try that
instead. But you may be forced to select flesh areas and go to Colors
> Adjust > Color Balance to tweak it to where it looks best -- until
it matches another photo is the best test. In fact, that tweaking can
apply to areas other than skintone.
Using Paintbrush will give a more exact copy of the desired color
without tweaking. But the Color To Target overall is far superior than
painting because the highlights are not lost -- the picture will have
sparkle. But at times it can take patience.
In colorizing I find occasional use of the Paintbrush works well as an
adjunct to Color To Target. It's the only sure way to kill highlights
where you don't want them (cloning can sometimes work). If you are
colorizing old B&W photos this comes up often because the old films
were very contrasty. This could be the surface of a shiny table or
over-bright cheeks. For facial use, eyedropper off an already C to T
colored area and use very low opacity.
Ember
Ember
1. When I said Paintbrush I meant any of the painting tools.
2. In addition to selecting areas for colour tweaking in Color
Balance, you may have to select one or two areas for darkening in
Gamma Adjust. This might be the same as the colour tweak selection, in
which case you can do them both while the selection is alive. Colours
tend to come out too bright in C to T (the opposite of painting). For
a small area try Retouch > Lightness Down. More work, but worth it.
Ember
Kris Zaklika
>
> What would be the hex value of the colour required to colour a normal
> "European American" / "White American" face when using the "Colour to
> Target" method of painting over a grey-scale image?
#AA6850, taken from the generic skintone in Effects > Enhance
Photo > Manual Color Correction.
> When I use the colours suggested in a web page it doesn't look right to me,
> but maybe it is just me, and a normal reaction to seeing colour on a
> grey-scale image.
Nobody has a uniformly colored skin. The color of skin depends
on the amount of melanin pigment but also on blood supply.
Drag a pointed pencil over the inside of your wrist, wait five
minutes and watch that area of your wrist turn red :) Things
like cheeks need a redder color. Areas under the eyes may
need a greener color.
> I would like to know what methods and colours others have found best.
>
> Thanks
> Brian Tozer
--
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Customer Service: customer...@jasc.com To
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Fugitive
>. Areas under the eyes may
>need a greener color.
Maybe yours do, but mine are purple.
RonV
I guess it depends on how tough (FUN) your weekend was. :)
--
RonV
Sherri
(to use with Retouch Color to Target ... but it still requires playing
around with the color sliders). This is for PSP7 (it could still be done
with PSP6, but PSP6 doesn't have the sliders and up arrows to tweak the
colors, so you'd have to manually enter them)
1. Find a skin color you like (save it as a skin color swatch and/or in
your custom colors if you think you'll be needing skin colors often).
2. Use your eye-dropper to left-click on the color, then left-click on the
foreground color in the Color (styles) Palette to open up the color wheel
dialog box.
3. Write down the number that's in the LIGHT box (right above HTML colors).
4. Keeping the color dialog box open, left-click on an area of your BW
image that you're wishing to paint (left-click-dragging the title area of
the color dialog box to move it if necessary).
5. Write down the LIGHT color number from the new gray color.
6. Subtract the Gray color's LIGHT number from the Skin color's LIGHT
number, and write down the new number.
7. Left-click in the OLD COLOR box to bring back your original skin color.
Enter in the number from the subtraction. I ended up with a very dark
brown.
8. Click OK button to exit color wheel dialog box. Test your new color
using Retouch Color to Target. Mine looked a teensy bit too dark. I
clicked in the foreground color (color/styles palette) again, and used the
light slider's up arrows to lighten the color a few numbers higher, and
tested it again till I got the color I wanted.
It seems like quite a bit of work at first, but after doing it a few times,
you'll find that it gets easier. But it's a lot less work than
guessing/tweaking over and over (to me).
You might also try doing it this way... add a new layer, paint in a skin
color with the normal paintbrush, and set the blend mode to color, adjusting
transparency of the color layer as needed. Getting the correct color isn't
quite as hard, at least for me 8^) And I didn't have to do math with this
way either LOL Do everybody's suggestions to see what works best with you
and your image *S*
HTH
Sherri
"Brian Tozer" <bria...@ihug.co.nz> wrote in message
news:amnfsj$aec$1...@lust.ihug.co.nz...
Kris Zaklika
Why not just do Colors > Adjust > Gamma Correction on the
greyscale image you are retouching? What you suggest also
seems not to make sense to me (maybe too little coffee :)
because the hue and saturation are taken from the color
swatch and the lightness is taken from the greyscale image
you are retouching if you use Color To Target. You may
just be exploiting some small difference in the way that
"lightness" is calculated in the Color Picker and in
Color To Target. For example, the former uses lightness
from HSL and the latter may (and I don't know this for a
fact) be using luminance.
> You might also try doing it this way... add a new layer, paint in a skin
> color with the normal paintbrush, and set the blend mode to color, adjusting
> transparency of the color layer as needed. Getting the correct color isn't
> quite as hard, at least for me 8^) And I didn't have to do math with this
> way either LOL Do everybody's suggestions to see what works best with you
> and your image *S*
>
> HTH
> Sherri
>
> "Brian Tozer" <bria...@ihug.co.nz> wrote in message
> news:amnfsj$aec$1...@lust.ihug.co.nz...
> > What would be the hex value of the colour required to colour a normal
> > "European American" / "White American" face when using the "Colour to
> > Target" method of painting over a grey-scale image?
> > When I use the colours suggested in a web page it doesn't look right to
> me,
> > but maybe it is just me, and a normal reaction to seeing colour on a
> > grey-scale image.
> > I would like to know what methods and colours others have found best.
> >
> > Thanks
> > Brian Tozer
--
Sherri
experience/education is what's causing our not understanding each other's
ways LOL
I learn my photo enhancing/colorizing from a variety of sources, then play
around with what I've learned, sometimes coming up with different ways to
achieve the color I'm wanting. Since I'm not experienced in the colors like
you and other professionals, I'm sure I've come up with some 'off the wall'
work arounds (remember the MCC thread LOL).
So I'm not understanding why I'd want to adust my gamma on my grayscale to
get the color I wanted while using Retouch Color to Target *S*
I just recall picking colors that I thought were what I wanted, then
coloring to target and they'd be waaay too light. It took me a very long
time to tweak the color to get what I wanted. Since I'd learned about
lightening/darkening my colors by adjusting the LIGHT's buttons/sliders, I
came up with subtracting my Color's light number from my Grayscale's light
number. It was a very close color to what I wanted, and only required a
tweak or two.
Here's 2 of my enhancements (get some more coffee while it's loading LOL) I
used both color to target, and painting the color onto a new layer and using
a blend mode (probably color).
http://shreela.fateback.com/PhotoEnhance/FamilyPhotos.html
I did my grandfather's photo over a year ago. While I was very pleased with
it at the time, I saw lots of things that needed fixing. I did more cloning
on the horse and a few other areas, desatted the dirt, and fixed the blue
pommel goof up LOL. I did the same color goof with hubby's little brother's
shirt sleeve. They're fixed up now, but my pc's A drive has had it and
won't let me have the improved versions so I can upload from this pc (mine
won't upload, it's weird). But you can get a general idea from these. I am
stumped on what else to do to the horse other than fixing up the spots I
left.....RGB lighten/darken? That horse just looks flat 8^)
Sherri
"Kris Zaklika" <kzak...@jasc.com> wrote in message
Kris Zaklika
>
> Ha, did you get more coffee yet? I do believe that our vast differences in
> experience/education is what's causing our not understanding each other's
> ways LOL
>
> I learn my photo enhancing/colorizing from a variety of sources, then play
> around with what I've learned, sometimes coming up with different ways to
> achieve the color I'm wanting. Since I'm not experienced in the colors like
> you and other professionals, I'm sure I've come up with some 'off the wall'
> work arounds (remember the MCC thread LOL).
Having had coffee (and now a wee dribble of the excellent
water of life for which Scotland is so justly famous) I
still can't make sense of your recipe. Color has three
components. One convenient way to define them is by
lightness, hue and saturation. A way to express lightness
is by use of luminance, which is what the grey values in a
greyscale image are. The hue and saturation can be lumped
together as chrominance information. What Color to Target
does is throw away the luminance information from your
defined color, keeping only the chrominance. The discarded
luminance is replaced by the luminance of the image. That
is why dark bits of the image come out dark and light bits
come out light. They are using lightness (luminance) values
straight from the image. Because of this, it is hard to
understand why your manipulation of lightness is of any
use, since the lightness information of your color gets
discarded. Actually, I think that by manipulating lightness
you are indirectly manipulating chrominance information.
For instance, when you darken a medium brightness color
you reduce its saturation. I believe that you think you
are manipulating lightness but you are only seeing the
indirectly modified chrominance in your retouched image.
It may also be that there is something about the details
of Color To Target that is more complicated than I
described, which allows some effect of your target color
lightness. (If there is, then there shouldn't be :)
> So I'm not understanding why I'd want to adust my gamma on my grayscale to
> get the color I wanted while using Retouch Color to Target *S*
Because I told you that the lightness of the image is used
along with the chrominance of the color you set to define
the color completely. By using a gamma greater than one you
lighten the image and also, as a result, lighten the color
you apply. Gamma less than one darkens the image and so
darkens the applied color.
> I just recall picking colors that I thought were what I wanted, then
> coloring to target and they'd be waaay too light. It took me a very long
> time to tweak the color to get what I wanted. Since I'd learned about
> lightening/darkening my colors by adjusting the LIGHT's buttons/sliders, I
> came up with subtracting my Color's light number from my Grayscale's light
> number. It was a very close color to what I wanted, and only required a
> tweak or two.
>
> Here's 2 of my enhancements (get some more coffee while it's loading LOL) I
> used both color to target, and painting the color onto a new layer and using
> a blend mode (probably color).
> http://shreela.fateback.com/PhotoEnhance/FamilyPhotos.html
>
> I did my grandfather's photo over a year ago. While I was very pleased with
> it at the time, I saw lots of things that needed fixing. I did more cloning
> on the horse and a few other areas, desatted the dirt, and fixed the blue
> pommel goof up LOL. I did the same color goof with hubby's little brother's
> shirt sleeve. They're fixed up now, but my pc's A drive has had it and
> won't let me have the improved versions so I can upload from this pc (mine
> won't upload, it's weird). But you can get a general idea from these. I am
> stumped on what else to do to the horse other than fixing up the spots I
> left.....RGB lighten/darken? That horse just looks flat 8^)
The histogram of the original image shows a dark peak and
a light peak with little in between. This is consistent with
a contrasty image. What you need to do is compress the
midtones brutally (e.g. 25) and then run Clarify at 5 two
times. That will give you a horse with some lightness
variation, so it does not look so flat. Other stuff in the
image won't look any worse as a result.
Sherri
I compressed midtones about 20 on a duplicate layer which I'd masked out all
but the horse. I clarified twice too. I played around with some adjustmet
layers to try and redarken the darks (that midtone compression did add some
nice contrast, but left the color very faded looking) while keeping my new
highlights bright....I did so much I don't recall exactly, but I do believe
levels and curves were used.
Then I found that I needed MUCH more corrections in the cloning department
LOL....all those new areas that the enhancements found sure looked poor.
Guess they weren't as noticeable when the horse was still flat looking.
Oh and I also found that while I can't mask an adjustment layer, I can bring
up a selection from alpha and delete...that was helpful (hope I'm not
'exploiting' again LOL).
I'll have to reread the chromiance/luminence stuff again, probably do some
searches too, so I'll be able to digest all that 8^) but at least I have
keywords. Perhaps it will also help me to come up with the color I need to
set for Color to Target w/o using my 'weird method' (which although it might
be unusual, it still gives me what I'm looking for LOL).
If I can trick my A drive into giving me those images, I'll upload a new
page with my 'not as flat horse'.
Thanks
Sherri
"Kris Zaklika" <kzak...@jasc.com> wrote in message
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