Two newbie questions
Hobbit
1) Is Sasquatch the way to go to create a photo-realstic, non-patterned,
carpet?
2) When I look at many galleries of 3D websites, although the modelling is
superb and really puts my inital efforts to shame, the finished artwork
screams CG to me. The foreground model really 'pops' against its
environment, much as the creatures of Ray Harryhausen did against the other
elements in the movie. How do you more experienced artists overcome this?
Apply a soft filter to the foreground object when compositing it with the
background?
best, Hobbit
Alessandro D. Petaccia
<no...@nobodyherespammer.com> wrote:
>Here's a couple of questions that I'd appreciate help with please:
>
>1) Is Sasquatch the way to go to create a photo-realstic, non-patterned,
>carpet?
I have no idea. :)
>2) When I look at many galleries of 3D websites, although the modelling is
>superb and really puts my inital efforts to shame, the finished artwork
>screams CG to me. The foreground model really 'pops' against its
>environment, much as the creatures of Ray Harryhausen did against the other
>elements in the movie. How do you more experienced artists overcome this?
>Apply a soft filter to the foreground object when compositing it with the
>background?
I assume you're talking about "real" backgrounds, like photographs?
And you're talking about stills, right? Apart from the obvious (HDRI
and radiosity) and the even more obvious (make sure your lightning and
shadows match!), however, you can't do much within LW.
In post, there is an amount of tricks you can perform. First, add
grain! This is easier said than done, of course, but there are grain
sampling plug-ins around that can work wonders; soft filtering might
be useful from time to time - those ultra-crisp edges are a pain - but
I prefer to manually mess with layers and different gaussian blurs.
Also remember to defringe, which alone can make a lot of difference.
What's probably more important, however, is color (lack of) balance,
which can make your composition look awful. Apps such as Combustion,
Shake etc. have some incredibly powerful tools, but have you seen the
new color matching in Photoshop CS? It's bloody brilliant, I mean...
it actually *works* and it's quite easy to understand.
ADP.
Graham Nichols
"Alessandro D. Petaccia" <ale...@despammed.com> wrote in message
news:rnil609s1jlpmlrlp...@4ax.com...
Thanks for those tips Alessandro, much appreciated. Many good points to
experiment with at this end.
Yes, I agree that Photoshop CS is bloody brilliant. I'm new to Photoshop.
I've used Corel's Photopaint since it was at version 1.2, but decided to
jump ship to Photoshop, as it seemed crazy not to be familiar with the
industry standard toolbox. I'm glad I did as the manipulation/correction
features are mind-blowing. The downside being yet another learning-curve to
climb.
New to the LW arena (I started on Macromedia's Extreme 3D2 until they dumped
it in favour of web products) I'm currently teaching myself LW7.5c, AE Pro,
Photoshop CS, Premier Pro, Audition, Encore, and Vue D'Espirit 4 Pro. There
aren't enough hours in the day baby, believe me!
Thanks again,
Graham (Hobbit)
PS In the end I just took a Digital pic of some carpet and used it as a
tiled texture map.
fx_05
me also i have no idea on how about creating a carpet using Sasquatch but i
can give you a link to help you solve your second question. here is the
link: http://www.rustboy.com. it is a film that an animator is making. when
browsing the site. in the making of, diary and other sections you will find
many tips on making realistic backgrounds. Look at the first page and you
will see that that little guy is no ordinary CG at all.
Cheers
fx_05
"Graham Nichols" <gra...@removethistoreplycontrast-software.com> wrote in
message news:c4eror$73r$1...@hercules.btinternet.com...
Graham Nichols
"fx_05" <as...@mymail.com> wrote in message
news:c4fu57$qqp$1...@news.intnet.mu...
> hi Hobbit.
>
> me also i have no idea on how about creating a carpet using Sasquatch but
i
> can give you a link to help you solve your second question. here is the
> link: http://www.rustboy.com. it is a film that an animator is making.
when
> browsing the site. in the making of, diary and other sections you will
find
> many tips on making realistic backgrounds. Look at the first page and you
> will see that that little guy is no ordinary CG at all.
>
>
> Cheers
> fx_05
>
>
>
Many thanks for the link fx_05. What a great link! I really like the idea
of using animated textures for the leaves of the tree. I would never have
thought of that. It's stuff like this that both educates and inspires me as
a beginner, helping to add some sugar to the learning-curve pill.
Anything is possible with LW, only time is the enemy.
Cheers,
Graham (Hobbit)
Mark Dunakin
And I still have my InfiniD 3D software for my Mac.
I never use it anymore, cuz my Mac is just tooo slow and old.
I did love working with that program way back when, as it was
easy to use and did some things that LW couldn't do, and I think, still
don't.
It made doing morphs from one shape to another, really simple and easy.
Anyway, really cool RustBoy.
..........md :)
fx_05 wrote:
--
--
Check out my Tutorials:
MD arts
Mark Dunakin
m...@md-arts.com
http://www.md-arts.com
"When I die, I want to go peacefully in my sleep like Grandpa did,
not screaming like the passengers in his car."
Mark Dunakin
Graham Nichols wrote:
>Graham (Hobbit)
>
>PS In the end I just took a Digital pic of some carpet and used it as a
>tiled texture map.
>
>
That's what I would of suggested, as it works quite well :)
And if you do a little offset in PS, you can then use the stamp tool to
blend
the seams in better and basically end up with a nice clean seamless image.
...............md :)
Tesselator
> 1) Is Sasquatch the way to go to create a photo-realstic, non-patterned,
> carpet?
Yes. It looks awesome! The downside? To get it looking right you need
the trace options on and Sas frigging crawls!!!
> 2) When I look at many galleries of 3D websites, although the modelling is
> superb and really puts my inital efforts to shame, the finished artwork
> screams CG to me. The foreground model really 'pops' against its
> environment, much as the creatures of Ray Harryhausen did against the other
> elements in the movie. How do you more experienced artists overcome this?
> Apply a soft filter to the foreground object when compositing it with the
> background?
Well every shot is different so I'm not sure I follow your meaning.
It sounds like you're talking about CG effects and chars added to
full motion film or video plates. But then you say "many galleries
of 3D websites"... so, um, like, what are you talking about?
All 3D apps have a really hard time with realism. The best way
to achieve realism in general terms is thru render layers. See:
http://www.nullsville.com/Software/CA2/default.aspx
http://www.3drender.com/light/index.html
For putting an CG images in live footage you also need to consider
the environment the camera was in and the properties of the camera,
lens, and medium used to capture the footage - and then use the
digital tools available to try and recreate that as closely as
possible.
I'd venture to say that the vast majority of stuff in "galleries of
3D websites" is created by folks exercizing the app and not going
for final output. And when they do go for final most will not
bother to render in passes (layers) /if/ they even know how. It's
not until ya get around film projects that this changes. Perhapps
it's safe to say that most artists working on films don't put those
works online - usually for the obvious reasons: (c) and workload.
This is where a nice CG school has advantages over learning from
online examples, forums and even tapes.
Graham Nichols
"Tesselator" <jimm...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c4fqfc$ndj$1...@catv02.starcat.ne.jp...
>
> > 1) Is Sasquatch the way to go to create a photo-realstic,
non-patterned,
> > carpet?
>
> Yes. It looks awesome! The downside? To get it looking right you need
> the trace options on and Sas frigging crawls!!!
It can't be any slower than my modelling speed, so I'll give it a wizz. :)
>
>
> > 2) When I look at many galleries of 3D websites, although the modelling
is
> > superb and really puts my inital efforts to shame, the finished artwork
> > screams CG to me. The foreground model really 'pops' against its
> > environment, much as the creatures of Ray Harryhausen did against the
other
> > elements in the movie. How do you more experienced artists overcome
this?
> > Apply a soft filter to the foreground object when compositing it with
the
> > background?
>
> Well every shot is different so I'm not sure I follow your meaning.
> It sounds like you're talking about CG effects and chars added to
> full motion film or video plates. But then you say "many galleries
> of 3D websites"... so, um, like, what are you talking about?
I'm talking about the clarity relationship between the central CG object in
a scene and it's surroundings. Often in CG online galleries the central
model is too pin-sharp against the rest of the scene. I'm not talking about
DOF here, the central item just looks too good to be true. The George Lucas
guys certainly got it right when the made their stuff look 'used'. I think
the best CG work is stuff the zips by the viewer. They accept it as real
because there's nothing to make them think 'Mmm ... that's been added by
some clever sod'.
>
>
> All 3D apps have a really hard time with realism. The best way
> to achieve realism in general terms is thru render layers. See:
>
> http://www.nullsville.com/Software/CA2/default.aspx
> http://www.3drender.com/light/index.html
>
Thanks for the link.
> For putting an CG images in live footage you also need to consider
> the environment the camera was in and the properties of the camera,
> lens, and medium used to capture the footage - and then use the
> digital tools available to try and recreate that as closely as
> possible.
>
> I'd venture to say that the vast majority of stuff in "galleries of
> 3D websites" is created by folks exercizing the app and not going
> for final output. And when they do go for final most will not
> bother to render in passes (layers) /if/ they even know how. It's
> not until ya get around film projects that this changes. Perhapps
> it's safe to say that most artists working on films don't put those
> works online - usually for the obvious reasons: (c) and workload.
>
> This is where a nice CG school has advantages over learning from
> online examples, forums and even tapes.
Yep. I'd agree with that. But having been forced to sell my small
manufacturing business in 2000, my current budget is small as I have no
income right now. I'm concentrating 7 days a week, 18 hours a day, to learn
this stuff in order to feed myself. It's a fascinating/frustrating journey.
But, due to the friendly online 3D community, the tips thrown my way help me
to organise my thoughts and hone my skills, and I'm very grateful for the
input received.
best, Graham
Graham Nichols
non-patterned,
> > carpet?
>
> Yes. It looks awesome! The downside? To get it looking right you need
> the trace options on and Sas frigging crawls!!!
>
Trace options? You've lost me there. Please explain.
best, Graham
Tesselator
"Graham Nichols" <gra...@removethistoreplycontrast-software.com> wrote in message news:c4gl2o$2qg$1...@hercules.btinternet.com...
>
> "Tesselator" <jimm...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:c4fqfc$ndj$1...@catv02.starcat.ne.jp...
> >
> > > 1) Is Sasquatch the way to go to create a photo-realstic,
> non-patterned,
> > > carpet?
> >
> > Yes. It looks awesome! The downside? To get it looking right you need
> > the trace options on and Sas frigging crawls!!!
>
> It can't be any slower than my modelling speed, so I'll give it a wizz. :)
2 to 10 hours per frame. ;) Too bad FPrime doesn't do SAS. :(
> Trace options? You've lost me there. Please explain.
Sorry, Trace shadoows, Trace reflection, Trace transparency...
And for a realistic nappy rug you'll probably need one or more
area lights in the mix and Radiosity switched on.
> > > 2) When I look at many galleries of 3D websites, although the modelling is
> > > superb and really puts my inital efforts to shame, the finished artwork
> > > screams CG to me. The foreground model really 'pops' against its
> > > environment, much as the creatures of Ray Harryhausen did against the other
> > > elements in the movie. How do you more experienced artists overcome this?
> > > Apply a soft filter to the foreground object when compositing it with the
> > > background?
> >
> > Well every shot is different so I'm not sure I follow your meaning.
> > It sounds like you're talking about CG effects and chars added to
> > full motion film or video plates. But then you say "many galleries
> > of 3D websites"... so, um, like, what are you talking about?
>
> I'm talking about the clarity relationship between the central CG object in
> a scene and it's surroundings. Often in CG online galleries the central
> model is too pin-sharp against the rest of the scene. I'm not talking about
> DOF here, the central item just looks too good to be true. The George Lucas
> guys certainly got it right when the made their stuff look 'used'. I think
> the best CG work is stuff the zips by the viewer. They accept it as real
> because there's nothing to make them think 'Mmm ... that's been added by
> some clever sod'.
Have yourself a visit to DV Garage: http://www.dvgarage.com/ and go to
the "Attention To Detail" area after registering. - Don't worry I've
been a member for years and know Alex doesn't hand out email addresses
to spammers, so it's safe. You'll also find some great reasonably priced
tuts on Multi-Pass rendering and doing comps the professional way.
So that'll get you going on grime layers and all that's needed for
realistic surfacing - which leaves just lighting (well besides the
object itself and it's behaviors in the 4th dimention) and here's
a few books reviews of books that should be in everyones library:
http://www.3drender.com/ref/light.htm
> > All 3D apps have a really hard time with realism. The best way
> > to achieve realism in general terms is thru render layers. See:
> >
> > http://www.nullsville.com/Software/CA2/default.aspx
> > http://www.3drender.com/light/index.html
> >
>
> Thanks for the link.
NP.
> > For putting an CG images in live footage you also need to consider
> > the environment the camera was in and the properties of the camera,
> > lens, and medium used to capture the footage - and then use the
> > digital tools available to try and recreate that as closely as
> > possible.
> >
> > I'd venture to say that the vast majority of stuff in "galleries of
> > 3D websites" is created by folks exercizing the app and not going
> > for final output. And when they do go for final most will not
> > bother to render in passes (layers) /if/ they even know how. It's
> > not until ya get around film projects that this changes. Perhapps
> > it's safe to say that most artists working on films don't put those
> > works online - usually for the obvious reasons: (c) and workload.
> >
> > This is where a nice CG school has advantages over learning from
> > online examples, forums and even tapes.
>
> Yep. I'd agree with that. But having been forced to sell my small
> manufacturing business in 2000, my current budget is small as I have no
> income right now. I'm concentrating 7 days a week, 18 hours a day, to learn
> this stuff in order to feed myself. It's a fascinating/frustrating journey.
> But, due to the friendly online 3D community, the tips thrown my way help me
> to organise my thoughts and hone my skills, and I'm very grateful for the
> input received.
NP! Another great community interactive resource is IRC. Here's where I
am (and other dedicated artists as well) and how to get there:
IRC (Internet Relay Chat)
-------------------------
Here's how:
1) Download mIRC from http://www.mirc.com/get.html
2) Install it.
3) Start it up and connect to the server named ETG ("Enter The Game").
I've been connecting through Ky2.EnterTheGame.Com if you run into
trouble getting connected. Wait a few minutes for the connection
to establish.
4) If the Join Popup doesn't display select "Commands" -> "Join
Channel" from the pull-down menus and enter #LW3D. Or you can
just type it into the ETG server "Status" window like: "/j #LW3D"
without the quotes ofcourse.
5) Enjoy!
This is especially good if you have broadband as you can just leave it
connected and running in the BG and then when you need help, advice or
a wip critique just put the #LW3D window "on-top" of the LW interface
and you have interactive help chat seemingly right in LW. :) The vast
majority of users there are Long time LW pros and/or Working pros so
there's plenty to learn too. mIRC doesn't seem to eat any CPU cycles
and little to no line laod (bandwidth) is consumed so it's great for
this.
Graham Nichols
>
<snipped>
Many thanks for the links Tessalator. Much appreciated.
best, Graham