Old Photoshop versions (running natively under W2K and under WINE)
Andreas Schallenberg
when installing older Photoshop versions (3.x)
on a Windows system, the application normally
refuses to start when there is more than 512 MByte
of memory installed. The application says that
there is insufficient memory to run and quits.
I read that Photoshop 4 versions would behave
the same way (could not test it). I remember
having seen the same dialog when trying to
install a 3.x version using WINE. The memory being
physically available was 512 MByte if I remember
correctly.
By luck I discovered that Photoshop 3 runs on
Windows 2000 with way more memory, if there is
1280 MByte physical RAM installed (1 GByte plus
256 MByte RAM bars). The swap space is automatically
set to a minimum value of 1920 and a maximum of 3840
MByte.
Obviously, Photoshop does not calculate the amount
of available memory correctly. Maybe there is a
signed interpretation of an unsigned value or the
value is clipped to a certain number of lower bits.
Or maybe both. I was not able to run the software
with 768 MByte, so just adding a 256 MByte bar doesn't
seem to be sufficient.
Question 1: Has anyone made similar observations?
Does anyone know other large memory configurations
that do work?
Question 2: How about WINE faking the amount of memory
reported to Photoshop in a way that one working size
is used? For example, using 1280 MByte on a 2 GByte
machine?
Regards,
Andreas
Rein Klazes
<no_r...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Question 1: Has anyone made similar observations?
>Does anyone know other large memory configurations
>that do work?
Try (on a recent wine) the software. If the problem that you suspect
exists, try changing the settings for emulated windows version (default
is win XP).
IIRC the win9* versions did not use more then 512MB, so that could work
(or can be made to work in a compatible way).
>
>Question 2: How about WINE faking the amount of memory
>reported to Photoshop in a way that one working size
>is used? For example, using 1280 MByte on a 2 GByte
>machine?
How about testing first if there is a problem?
A comment from GlobalMemoryStatus function:
| /* work around for broken photoshop 4 installer */
| if ( lpBuffer->dwAvailPhys + lpBuffer->dwAvailPageFile >= 2U*1024*1024*1024)
| lpBuffer->dwAvailPageFile = 2U*1024*1024*1024 - lpBuffer->dwAvailPhys - 1;
There are more of such work around's in the wine sources to be found.
Rein.
Andreas Schallenberg
> On Wed, 06 May 2009 10:17:01 +0200, Andreas Schallenberg
> <no_r...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>Question 1: Has anyone made similar observations?
>>Does anyone know other large memory configurations
>>that do work?
>
> Try (on a recent wine) the software. If the problem that you suspect
> exists, try changing the settings for emulated windows version (default
> is win XP).
>
> IIRC the win9* versions did not use more then 512MB, so that could work
> (or can be made to work in a compatible way).
>
wine 1.1.19 and both XP and Win95 mode for Photoshop 3.
I cannot test with Photoshop 4, since I don't have
that software.
>>
>>Question 2: How about WINE faking the amount of memory
>>reported to Photoshop in a way that one working size
>>is used? For example, using 1280 MByte on a 2 GByte
>>machine?
>
> How about testing first if there is a problem?
Guess why I wrote this post :-)
To avoid possible confusion: Photoshop 3 does install
well but the application itself cannot be started.
> A comment from GlobalMemoryStatus function:
>
> | /* work around for broken photoshop 4 installer */
> | if ( lpBuffer->dwAvailPhys + lpBuffer->dwAvailPageFile >=
> | 2U*1024*1024*1024)
> | lpBuffer->dwAvailPageFile = 2U*1024*1024*1024 -
> | lpBuffer->dwAvailPhys - 1;
>
> There are more of such work around's in the wine sources to be found.
> ...
Interesting. So this is for Photoshop 4 installer...
I'll have a look at the source if I find something
for Photoshop 3 and the main application. Thank you
for that information.
Regards,
Andreas
Rein Klazes
<no_r...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>Question 2: How about WINE faking the amount of memory
>>>reported to Photoshop in a way that one working size
>>>is used? For example, using 1280 MByte on a 2 GByte
>>>machine?
>>
>> How about testing first if there is a problem?
>
>Guess why I wrote this post :-)
No need for guessing, you told us yourself:
|I remember
|having seen the same dialog when trying to
|install a 3.x version using WINE. The memory being
|physically available was 512 MByte if I remember
|correctly.
So instead of relying on your memories about the results of a (possibly)
old version of wine I asked for a recent test from yourself.
>> There are more of such work around's in the wine sources to be found.
>> ...
>
>Interesting. So this is for Photoshop 4 installer...
>I'll have a look at the source if I find something
>for Photoshop 3 and the main application. Thank you
>for that information.
The negative outcome of my suggestion (trying to manipulate the windows
version) makes this less likely.
If you want help file a bug report on http://bugs.winehq.org and attach
there the result of a relay trace. You need to type something like this:
WINEDEBUG=+relay wine yourprogram.exe &>wine.log
The resulting wine.log text file needs to be compressed. Best to use
lzma which gives fare out the best compression ratio.
If you prefer, send the log directly to me (wijn at online dot nl)
Rein.
Andreas Schallenberg
Rein Klazes wrote:
> ...
> So instead of relying on your memories about the results of a (possibly)
> old version of wine I asked for a recent test from yourself.
>
Ok, sorry, then I got you wrong.
> ...
> If you want help file a bug report on http://bugs.winehq.org and attach
> there the result of a relay trace. You need to type something like this:
>
> WINEDEBUG=+relay wine yourprogram.exe &>wine.log
>
> The resulting wine.log text file needs to be compressed. Best to use
> lzma which gives fare out the best compression ratio.
>
> If you prefer, send the log directly to me (wijn at online dot nl)
> ...
I just created this report:
http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18379
I did not add your hint about the Photoshop 4 Installer
workaround. Maybe this needs to be added, too.
Regards,
Andreas
philo
Heck I got the the opposite results.
I installed Publisher under Wine and cannot get Wine to assign more than
32 megs to the application and it immediately runs out of memory.
Thus far no one has been able to explain how to assign memory to
applications in Wine
Raak
>Heck I got the the opposite results.
>
>I installed Publisher under Wine and cannot get Wine to assign more than
>32 megs to the application and it immediately runs out of memory.
Applications - including Microsoft applications - are known to report
running out of memory when they encounter any problem. You must keep an
open mind about this when trying to solve the problem.
>
>Thus far no one has been able to explain how to assign memory to
>applications in Wine
32bit wine would not even start if it wasn't assigned ALL the virtual
memory that a 'x86 processor can address (4GB). You are asking something
that does not need such a fix.
Rein.
philo
Nope!
I monitored memory usage.
Total machine memory = 3 gigs
Prior to opening Publisher under Wine, my RAM usage was 180 megs
when I tried to open my document one of the cores of my CPU went up to
100% and RAM usage only went up to a *total* of 212 megs or so.
Within a short time, I got the "out of memory" error.
It only happens on a *huge* document and it's not a big deal to me really
as I can simply run Publisher natively...
FWIW: I've tried this on with at least three different Linux
distributions and even tried Crossover Office (which is essentially just
Wine with a few tweaks.)
But there is no way anyone has ever come up with a way for me to get
Wine to assign more memory to the application
Rein Klazes
>Raak wrote:
>
>FWIW: I've tried this on with at least three different Linux
>distributions and even tried Crossover Office (which is essentially just
>Wine with a few tweaks.)
>
>But there is no way anyone has ever come up with a way for me to get
>Wine to assign more memory to the application
How do follow memory usage?
As an example, I use agent to write this message. With 'top' I get to
see this:
| PID USER PR NI VIRT RES SHR S %CPU %MEM TIME+ COMMAND
| 5193 rein 20 0 2604m 63m 9928 S 1 2.1 16:11.74 agent.exe
Wine has reserved 2.6 Gig's of memory for this process. That is virtual
memory, it is reserved but not all used. What is in use (taking RAM, or
swap) is 63meg (RES means resident). If needed that will grow without I
have to do anything.
Your problem is not "wine assigning too little memory".
Rein.
philo
Ok I checked and you are right...
the first bit of helpful info I've gotten...
So basically, the memory is there for Wine to use...
but for whatever reason it's *not* being used by the application.
When I run Publisher natively (in Windows) however the behavior is such
that Publisher is using several gigs of RAM...but when running in
Linux/Wine...it only uses 32megs .
Now I know in Photoshop, for example there is a setting for how much RAM
you want it to use...but in Publisher there is no such setting.
So bottom line is...when using Publisher in Wine...how do I get it
to use the memory that is apparently there?
It is certainly not using it
Rein Klazes
>Ok I checked and you are right...
>
>the first bit of helpful info I've gotten...
>
>So basically, the memory is there for Wine to use...
>but for whatever reason it's *not* being used by the application.
>
>When I run Publisher natively (in Windows) however the behavior is such
>that Publisher is using several gigs of RAM...but when running in
>Linux/Wine...it only uses 32megs .
>
>
>Now I know in Photoshop, for example there is a setting for how much RAM
>you want it to use...but in Publisher there is no such setting.
>
>
>So bottom line is...when using Publisher in Wine...how do I get it
>to use the memory that is apparently there?
>
>It is certainly not using it
You are ignoring the possibility that Publisher's error message is not
accurate.
It would be help full if you could file a bug report at
http://bugs.winehq.org and supply a link to a publisher file with the
problem. The bugzilla upload limit of 1meg is probably not enough to
attach it directly.
Rein.
philo
Oh no...
the error message is quite accurate.
The file is huge (1 gig) It's a very large publication.
Even running Publisher natively, my machine has runs rather slowly.
As I think I've stated, when running natively, Publisher is using
several gigs of RAM when I open the file.
Running Publisher in Wine on my Linux installation...
RAM usage increases by only 32 megs!!!!
My machine has 3 gigs of RAM but 2.8 gigs of it are not being used
I have already posted to Wine.org but have not gotten any answers
Again, Wine in general works just fine...
even Publisher works fine for most of my purposes.
But on a really *huge* publication that's up in the 1 gig range...
there is definitely a memory problem
Andreas Schallenberg
> Rein Klazes wrote:
>> ...
>> You are ignoring the possibility that Publisher's error message is not
>> accurate.
>
> Oh no...
>
> the error message is quite accurate.
>
> The file is huge (1 gig) It's a very large publication.
> Even running Publisher natively, my machine has runs rather slowly.
>
> As I think I've stated, when running natively, Publisher is using
> several gigs of RAM when I open the file.
I think Rein is trying to tell you that despite the
fact that the file is large and the message says that
Publisher runs out of memory the problem may be different.
What if Publisher running under WINE is unable to open
the file due to other library calls failing?
There are many ways to handle error situations in software
and is is not unusual that reasons for some errors are not
correctly encoded in status words. If a programmer finds
it extremely unlikely that a routine fails in practice,
the failure is not represented by an individual error state.
So, the routine reports that it is unable to open the file
and returns a different error code (or message) that is
different than (but hopefully somehow close to) the real
reason.
WINE surely behaves different that a native Windows OS
in many ways. It is not unlikely that you caught such
a situation. I wouldn't bet on Rein being wrong in this case.
Regards,
Andreas
philo
Thanks for the reply however Publisher works just fine if I am trying to
open a smaller file.
The file itself is not corrupted as I can boot over to Windows and run
Publisher natively and it works fine there.
Since only 32megs of RAM are being used...
I don't see why anyone is doubting that the "out of memory" error
is anything other than being out of memory.
I have 2.8 gigs of RAM sitting idle
I have to say that I've been using Wine for many years
and have seen amazing improvements. Thus far most of my win-apps work
perfectly in it
Andreas Schallenberg
> ...
> Thanks for the reply however Publisher works just fine if I am trying to
> open a smaller file.
>
> The file itself is not corrupted as I can boot over to Windows and run
> Publisher natively and it works fine there.
>
> Since only 32megs of RAM are being used...
> I don't see why anyone is doubting that the "out of memory" error
> is anything other than being out of memory.
If WINE would not allow applications to reserve this
much memory (some GBytes) other applications would
fail, too. I assume, that Rein knows other applications
that do work with that amount of memory.
So why does this happen with Publisher?
If you take my Photoshop problem, the bugreport now
contains some additional information: The app tries
to obtain the amount of available memory from WINE.
The function seems to return a lot of additional
information about the memory, like the number of pages,
some memory totals etc.
The values returned by WINE are somehow different
than what a native Windows returns (assumption by me!),
although they are likely to be correct. Photoshop
does an interpretation of these values and sometimes
comes to the conclusion that there is insufficient memory.
The amount of physical memory that leads to a correct
start-up of the photoshop app is different when
running WINE and a native OS. So is Photoshop correct,
when it says that it has not enough memory?
Natively, it refuses to work with 1 GByte RAM but
if you add another 256 MByte, does work? There must
be something else.
When starting Publisher, there may be a comparable
problem. It might be Publisher doing something wrong
or WINE. Thats what Rein wants to find out and therefore
asked you to open a bug report. Create a trace so
WINE developers can have a look at the interaction
between app and WINE.
Regards,
Andreas
philo
OK I saw no other reports in that area,
I'll file a big report
Rein Klazes
<no_r...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>philo schrieb:
>> ...
>> Thanks for the reply however Publisher works just fine if I am trying to
>> open a smaller file.
>>
>> The file itself is not corrupted as I can boot over to Windows and run
>> Publisher natively and it works fine there.
>>
>> Since only 32megs of RAM are being used...
>> I don't see why anyone is doubting that the "out of memory" error
>> is anything other than being out of memory.
>> ...
>If WINE would not allow applications to reserve this
>much memory (some GBytes) other applications would
>fail, too. I assume, that Rein knows other applications
>that do work with that amount of memory.
Sure there are applications that use more then 32MB,I already gave an
example. I am sure that over 1GB can be used. I am not sure whether the
real limit is 2 of 3 GB, perhaps your Linux configuration comes into
play, but it is surely well over the 32MB. That rules out a simple out
of memory cause. It does not rule out other memory related bugs. But it
is not necessarily a memory related bug.
IMO Philo is asking the wrong questions. I suggest "Publisher version x
is complaining about insufficient memory when loading a large document,
but uses only 32 MB!"
>So why does this happen with Publisher?
Too much time is already wasted on speculating. A simple relay trace
would probably have revealed at least in what place to look. I searched
through the bug data base for Publisher bugs, this one is not among
them.
Rein.
philo
Yes
I will submit a bug report...
but I see that to do it right...I'll have to do the trace...
Within the next few days I hope to do it
thanks all for the comments