Basic questions about wine itself
Diego
a so deep knowledge to help with wine development, i just wish to, so
i am reading as much as i can on the wine website.
But i am afraid that it will be very hard to me as i never worked with
binary debuggers, and so much numbers and symbols on the terminal
makes me loose my self.
Is there a better web to learn about this kind of things?
Any way, i am reading Wine's developer guide, but i jumped to the
section II. Wine Architecture which i understand better than section
I. In my opinion it should be at first.
Reading the FAQ i see the Wine 1.0 Release Criteria which include a
list of "good candidates with no autoupdate".
I just want to mention that i have NEVER used one of those Microsoft
programs.
I better think that the list of candidates should be those programs
that there are no way alternatives on linux, becouse for M$ Office we
do have OpenOffice, and i will never choose to run M$ programm under
linux unless necessary. Those programms mostly are professional
software.
I will suggest some programs which i consider really necessary with
this criteria:
- Photoshop (already listed)
- Proteus VSM (an excelent Electronic CAD with circuit simulation and
alternatives in linux) http://www.labcenter.co.uk
- AutoCAD ( my architect friends can not live without it, so they can
not live in linux )
- IE6 or 7 as lots of applications use it embedded (like governmental
applications in my country)
- A bind for python to call dlls as with ctypes in linux.
I am an Engineering Electronic student so, over all i will use Proteus
because right now i need a Virtual Machines to do my electronic work.
I hope you heard by suggestion.
Cheers.
Diego
In the FAQ it says:
Do NOT run with the full Linux path i.e. "wine /stuff/mygame.exe" or
by double clicking icons from your file manager
Well, i am doing it in the bad way and lookly it works. But i dont
understand this limitation, since the "z:" is mapped to the root, if i
call wine with an absolute linux path shouldn't it by mapped to "z:"
path??
I test it with my game and have no troubles, but i have no oder app.
with this kind of problem.
Cheers
Duane Clark
> I have recently passioned with wine. I am a programmer but i dont have
> a so deep knowledge to help with wine development, i just wish to, so
> i am reading as much as i can on the wine website.
> But i am afraid that it will be very hard to me as i never worked with
> binary debuggers, and so much numbers and symbols on the terminal
> makes me loose my self.
I've written a number of patches to fix bugs, and have never used the
debuggers. That really is not needed. I find that the trace machanism
built into Wine is the easiest way to track down problems. Wine looks
tough at first, but if you are a programmer, then I am sure that you
will be able to handle it just fine. I am a hardware engineer that just
tinkers in Wine debugging.
In general, my method is something like this. If I have no idea where
the problem is, I set the WINEDEBUG environment variable for the relay
trace traces, and run the program.
$ WINEDEBUG=+relay wine myprogram.exe &> wine.log
If I have some idea of what DLL the problem might be in, then I would
add that trace path to the WINEDEBUG variable. For example, if you look
at the top of one of the source files in dlls/comctl32, near the top of
the file is the line:
WINE_DEFAULT_DEBUG_CHANNEL(commctrl);
In which case, I would use the command:
$ WINEDEBUG=+relay,+commctrl wine myprogram.exe &> wine.log
Run the program until is breaks, and then just Ctrl-C out of it. Having
relay traces turned on will dramatically slow down the program
operation, so be patient. Also, the log file can be quite large (1GB is
common).
Typically, I then chop the log file up into smaller pieces.
split --bytes=2m wine.log
Often there is some error message the program has output, so I might
grep through the files for part of the error message. When I find one of
interest, I like to format the relay traces to make it easier to follow
what is going on.
wine/tools/examine-relay xaa -f > xaa2
Take a look at that, and you will quickly figure out what the traces are
showing you.
To find out what an API call is supposed to do, you might as well check
at MS:
http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/default.aspx
To see where a function is in Wine, and where it is called from, check out:
http://source.winehq.org/ident
Diego
| ...
Thanks Clark i will try to do some basic fix, but i was thinking that
i could better contribute to make wine more user-friendly which i
think it really needs to be right now.
I think i will start by trying to start AutoCAD, there are lots of
dlls missing.
diego@diego:~/.wine/drive_c/AutoCAD 2002 Esp$ wine acad.exe
err:module:import_dll Library ac1st15.dll (which is needed by L"C:\
\AutoCAD 2002 Esp\\acad.exe") not found
err:module:import_dll Library acutil15.dll (which is needed by L"C:\
\AutoCAD 2002 Esp\\acad.exe") not found
err:module:import_dll Library acdb15.dll (which is needed by L"C:\
\AutoCAD 2002 Esp\\acad.exe") not found
err:module:import_dll Library acdb15.dll (which is needed by L"C:\
\AutoCAD 2002 Esp\\acui15.dll") not found
err:module:import_dll Library acrx15.dll (which is needed by L"C:\
\AutoCAD 2002 Esp\\acui15.dll") not found
err:module:import_dll Library acutil15.dll (which is needed by L"C:\
\AutoCAD 2002 Esp\\acui15.dll") not found
err:module:import_dll Library acui15.dll (which is needed by L"C:\
\AutoCAD 2002 Esp\\acad.exe") not found
err:module:import_dll Library sharedb15.dll (which is needed by L"C:\
\AutoCAD 2002 Esp\\acad.exe") not found
err:module:import_dll Library MSVCIRT.dll (which is needed by L"C:\
\AutoCAD 2002 Esp\\heidi7.dll") not found
err:module:import_dll Library heidi7.dll (which is needed by L"C:\
\AutoCAD 2002 Esp\\dswhip.dll") not found
err:module:import_dll Library MSVCIRT.dll (which is needed by L"C:\
\AutoCAD 2002 Esp\\heidi7.dll") not found
err:module:import_dll Library heidi7.dll (which is needed by L"C:\
\AutoCAD 2002 Esp\\dlint7.dll") not found
err:module:import_dll Library MSVCIRT.dll (which is needed by L"C:\
\AutoCAD 2002 Esp\\dlint7.dll") not found
err:module:import_dll Library dlint7.dll (which is needed by L"C:\
\AutoCAD 2002 Esp\\dswhip.dll") not found
err:module:import_dll Library MSVCIRT.dll (which is needed by L"C:\
\AutoCAD 2002 Esp\\dswhip.dll") not found
err:module:import_dll Library dswhip.dll (which is needed by L"C:\
\AutoCAD 2002 Esp\\acad.exe") not found
err:module:import_dll Library MSVCIRT.dll (which is needed by L"C:\
\AutoCAD 2002 Esp\\heidi7.dll") not found
err:module:import_dll Library heidi7.dll (which is needed by L"C:\
\AutoCAD 2002 Esp\\acad.exe") not found
err:module:import_dll Library acrx15.dll (which is needed by L"C:\
\AutoCAD 2002 Esp\\acad.exe") not found
err:module:import_dll Library AcGe15.dll (which is needed by L"C:\
\AutoCAD 2002 Esp\\acad.exe") not found
err:module:import_dll Library MSVCIRT.dll (which is needed by L"C:\
\AutoCAD 2002 Esp\\acad.exe") not found
err:module:LdrInitializeThunk Main exe initialization for L"C:\
\AutoCAD 2002 Esp\\acad.exe" failed, status c0000135
Dont know if those dlls are freely distribuitable.
Also a friends send me an ugly game that doesn't works:
diego@diego:~/.wine/drive_c/Archivos de programa/NetChess$ wine
NetChess.exe
err:x11drv:X11DRV_CreateWindow invalid window width -2072499459
err:x11drv:X11DRV_CreateWindow invalid window height -6767505
err:seh:setup_exception stack overflow 148 bytes in thread 0009 eip
7bc39504 esp 00240f6c stack 0x241000-0x350000
It could be an easy point to start learning, but when i got the code
which is not working how can i know what modifications i have to do,
or is just compile, test and error.
Finally, maybe you can tell me, why the UI is so ugly, it seems like
wine have reimplemented a Widget API, like GTK is.
Isn't it better to map Windows Widgets to GTK's widgets? Then you live
the work of appearance to another too much popular toolkit. And also
GTK can be made to look like qt, but not qt like gtk.
I think it is too much difficult to do at this point, isn't it?
Cheers
Diego
> dlls missing.
>
> diego@diego:~/.wine/drive_c/AutoCAD 2002 Esp$ wine acad.exe
All of those dlls are on
c:/Archivos de programa/Archivos comunes/Autodesk Shared
So, it should work. But i think that there is something here failing
on wine.
Those file should be able to be loaded without any special trick.
One trick to make it work is to add the path to the windows
environment variable path, or copy those files to system32.
Checking on http://wiki.winehq.org/UsefulRegistryKeys:
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE
System
|
+-CurrentControlSet
|
+-Control
| |
| +-Session Manager
| |
| +-Environment
| |
| +->PATH
| | [Path environment variable for searching programs.
| | Default: c:\windows\system32;c:\windows]
So, i run "wine regedit" and find this path.
First extrange impresion. Path variable contains NOTHING, is empty.
How does it finds system32's dlls if it is not in the path??
I juat add %SYSTEMDRIVE%/Archivos de programa/Archivos comunes/
Autodesk Shared, and AutoCAD still doesn't working.
Changed to c:/Archivos de programa/Archivos comunes/Autodesk Shared,
and doesn't work.
What happens??
Wine doesn't check for PATH? Lots of applications will not work
without this.
My Windows in VirtualBox have:
PATH=%GTK_BASEPATH%\bin;%SystemRoot%\system32;%SystemRoot%;%SystemRoot%
\System32\Wbem;C:\Archivos de programa\GnuWin32\bin
So %SystemRoot%\system32;%SystemRoot% are contained but no "Archivos
Comunes" ("Common Files" in english).
There is also a PATHEXT variable not present in wine.
Searching for "Archivos Comunes" on Windows XP, i have found some
registry keys not present on wine:
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Session Manager
\SFC]
"ProgramFilesDir"="C:\\Archivos de programa"
"CommonFilesDir"="C:\\Archivos de programa\\Archivos comunes"
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Shared Tools]
"SharedFilesDir"="C:\\Archivos de programa\\Archivos comunes\
\Microsoft Shared\\"
A this which IS present on wine:
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion]
"ProgramFilesDir"="C:\\Archivos de programa"
"CommonFilesDir"="C:\\Archivos de programa\\Archivos comunes"
Any way, setting all of this on wine doesn't make any change on
AutoCAD.
Copying file per file to system32 (shouldn't be necessary) does makes
AutoCAD to run crashing with:
wine: Call from 0x6372b436 to unimplemented function ac1st15.dll.?
__acMalloc@@YIPAXI@Z, aborting
wine: Unimplemented function ac1st15.dll.?__acMalloc@@YIPAXI@Z called
at address 0x6372b436 (thread 0009), starting debugger...
"unimplemented function ac1st15.dll"
How can AutoCAD call to an unimplemented function on his own dlls??
Anyway, i think that the big problem here is AutoCAD being unable to
find CommonFiles on wine. Any idea?
Duane Clark
> | On Jan 26, 5:38 pm, Duane Clark <junkm...@junkmail.com> wrote:
> | ...
>
> Thanks Clark i will try to do some basic fix, but i was thinking that
> i could better contribute to make wine more user-friendly which i
> think it really needs to be right now.
>
> I think i will start by trying to start AutoCAD, there are lots of
> dlls missing.
>
> diego@diego:~/.wine/drive_c/AutoCAD 2002 Esp$ wine acad.exe
> err:module:import_dll Library ac1st15.dll (which is needed by L"C:\
> \AutoCAD 2002 Esp\\acad.exe") not found
Those DLLs should be supplied by AutoCAD. If they are there (they
probably would be in a subdirectory of the autocad install location),
then something weird is going on.
> Also a friends send me an ugly game that doesn't works:
>
> diego@diego:~/.wine/drive_c/Archivos de programa/NetChess$ wine
> NetChess.exe
> err:x11drv:X11DRV_CreateWindow invalid window width -2072499459
> err:x11drv:X11DRV_CreateWindow invalid window height -6767505
> err:seh:setup_exception stack overflow 148 bytes in thread 0009 eip
> 7bc39504 esp 00240f6c stack 0x241000-0x350000
>
> It could be an easy point to start learning, but when i got the code
> which is not working how can i know what modifications i have to do,
> or is just compile, test and error.
Typically, I would run the program with the relay traces turned on, let
it crash, and try to determine from the resulting log what the program
was doing just before it crashed.
> Finally, maybe you can tell me, why the UI is so ugly, it seems like
> wine have reimplemented a Widget API, like GTK is.
> Isn't it better to map Windows Widgets to GTK's widgets? Then you live
> the work of appearance to another too much popular toolkit. And also
> GTK can be made to look like qt, but not qt like gtk.
> I think it is too much difficult to do at this point, isn't it?
I don't think Wine uses any GTK or QT widgets. Pretty much all the
controls are written from scratch, in the comctrl32 dll. And they should
all be reasonably close to the way windows draws them, so I guess I am
not sure which part you are referring to.
Duane Clark
> ...
> So, i run "wine regedit" and find this path.
> First extrange impresion. Path variable contains NOTHING, is empty.
> How does it finds system32's dlls if it is not in the path??
> I juat add %SYSTEMDRIVE%/Archivos de programa/Archivos comunes/
> Autodesk Shared, and AutoCAD still doesn't working.
> Changed to c:/Archivos de programa/Archivos comunes/Autodesk Shared,
> and doesn't work.
> What happens??
>
> Wine doesn't check for PATH? Lots of applications will not work
> without this.
> My Windows in VirtualBox have:
> PATH=%GTK_BASEPATH%\bin;%SystemRoot%\system32;%SystemRoot%;%SystemRoot%
> \System32\Wbem;C:\Archivos de programa\GnuWin32\bin
In your system.reg file, there should be the registry key:
[System\\CurrentControlSet\\Control\\Session Manager\\Environment]
All environment variables, including the PATH, should be set there. I
think Wine will look in windows/system32 for dlls by default, but there
is also an environment variable for that:
"windir"="c:\\windows"
"winsysdir"="c:\\windows\\system32"
> ...
> Copying file per file to system32 (shouldn't be necessary) does makes
> AutoCAD to run crashing with:
That definitely should not be required. I would expect that autocad
would have created it's own registry variables, with the path to the
autocad installation directory. Unless it relies on these being set in
global environment variables. Can you tell how Autocad determines the
location of the DLLs on Windows.
Diego
On Jan 28, 5:09 pm, Duane Clark <junkm...@junkmail.com> wrote:
> > Finally, maybe you can tell me, why the UI is so ugly, it seems like
> > wine have reimplemented a Widget API, like GTK is.
> > Isn't it better to map Windows Widgets to GTK's widgets? Then you live
> > the work of appearance to another too much popular toolkit. And also
> > GTK can be made to look like qt, but not qt like gtk.
> > I think it is too much difficult to do at this point, isn't it?
> I don't think Wine uses any GTK or QT widgets. Pretty much all the
> controls are written from scratch, in the comctrl32 dll. And they should
> all be reasonably close to the way windows draws them, so I guess I am
> not sure which part you are referring to.
I was saying that, wine looks ugly because it reimplements all the
windows controls.
I think that it will be nicer to map windows controls to GTK controls.
Then Windows programs will look nicer in linux than in windows.
> Diego wrote:
> > ...
> > PATH=%GTK_BASEPATH%\bin;%SystemRoot%\system32;%SystemRoot%;%SystemRoot%
> > \System32\Wbem;C:\Archivos de programa\GnuWin32\bin
>
> In your system.reg file, there should be the registry key:
> [System\\CurrentControlSet\\Control\\Session Manager\\Environment]
>
> All environment variables, including the PATH, should be set there. I
> think Wine will look in windows/system32 for dlls by default, but there
> is also an environment variable for that:
> "windir"="c:\\windows"
> "winsysdir"="c:\\windows\\system32"
This is the registry path where i check the PATH environ, and is
empty.
wine --version
wine-0.9.46
on Ubuntu 7.10 AMD64
> That definitely should not be required. I would expect that autocad
> would have created it's own registry variables, with the path to the
> autocad installation directory. Unless it relies on these being set in
> global environment variables. Can you tell how Autocad determines the
> location of the DLLs on Windows.
I will check if i see something, i dont have it installed on windows
right now.
It seems like some wine errors are mainly caused by missing registry
keys on wine registry, is there a way to log when a missing registry
key is being read ??
If this log is close to the crash logs, then will make things clear.
Even better could be if an external script gets called when a registry
key is missing or a dll is missing. Then the script could check on a
missing-registry-tracker and set properly the registry key. This will
fix registry-key problems on all wine versions.
Duane Clark
>
> I was saying that, wine looks ugly because it reimplements all the
> windows controls.
> I think that it will be nicer to map windows controls to GTK controls.
> Then Windows programs will look nicer in linux than in windows.
Ah, ok. I think that it is unlikely that Wine will go that route at this
point ;) It would be nice if someone worked on theming a bit, though.
>>
>> All environment variables, including the PATH, should be set there. I
>> think Wine will look in windows/system32 for dlls by default, but there
>> is also an environment variable for that:
>> "windir"="c:\\windows"
>> "winsysdir"="c:\\windows\\system32"
>
> This is the registry path where i check the PATH environ, and is
> empty.
> wine --version
> wine-0.9.46
> on Ubuntu 7.10 AMD64
If I move my current .wine out of the way, and let Wine create a new one
from scratch:
mv .wine .wine.old
winecfg
Then I check that registry key, I see:
[System\\CurrentControlSet\\Control\\Session Manager\\Environment]
...
"PATH"="c:\\windows\\system32;c:\\windows"
...
"SystemDrive"="c:"
"SYSTEMROOT"="c:\\windows"
...
"windir"="c:\\windows"
"winsysdir"="c:\\windows\\system32"
Have you tried the same thing? That is, allow Wine to create a
completely new ~/.wine from scratch, and check what is there?
>> That definitely should not be required. I would expect that autocad
>> would have created it's own registry variables, with the path to the
>> autocad installation directory. Unless it relies on these being set in
>> global environment variables. Can you tell how Autocad determines the
>> location of the DLLs on Windows.
>
> I will check if i see something, i dont have it installed on windows
> right now.
>
> It seems like some wine errors are mainly caused by missing registry
> keys on wine registry, is there a way to log when a missing registry
> key is being read ??
> If this log is close to the crash logs, then will make things clear.
>
> Even better could be if an external script gets called when a registry
> key is missing or a dll is missing. Then the script could check on a
> missing-registry-tracker and set properly the registry key. This will
> fix registry-key problems on all wine versions.
I would be surprised if many Wine errors are caused by missing registry
keys. I don't know why you would be missing basic things like a PATH
environment variable. Something would appear to have gone wrong on your
system.
I general, if a program writes and uses a registry key in Windows, it
should do the same in Wine. If it doesn't, then Wine should be fixed,
rather than having some script handle it.
As for logging, that is what the trace mechanism is for. I don't know
all the ways of reading the registry in Windows, but I notice that
QueryRegistryValue() can be tracked with the setupapi trace channel. And
in Windows, it is not at all unusual for a program to check for several
registry keys, before finding one that has what it wants. So you cannot
assume that if a program checks for a non-existent key, that it is an
error.
Diego
rebuilding .wine dir does make the PATH correctly setup. Maybe one of
my few installed programs have broken this key. Doesn't matters right
now.
But if the PATH was not set, why "wine regedit" does load regedit, or
"wine notepad" does load notepad, if they are not on the path.
Diego
> > AutoCAD to run crashing with:
>
> That definitely should not be required. I would expect that autocad
> would have created it's own registry variables, with the path to the
> autocad installation directory. Unless it relies on these being set in
> global environment variables. Can you tell how Autocad determines the
> location of the DLLs on Windows.
[Software\\Autodesk\\AutoCAD\\R15.0\\ACAD-1:40A] 1200242816
@=""
"ACAD"="c:\\Archivos de programa\\Archivos comunes\\Autodesk Shared;c:\
\AutoCAD 2002 Esp\\;c:\\AutoCAD 2002 Esp\\Support;c:\\AutoCAD 2002 Esp\
\Fonts;c:\\AutoCAD 2002 Esp\\Express"
"AcadLocation"="c:\\AutoCAD 2002 Esp"
"Dealer"="o"
"DealerPhone"="o"
"FirstName"="Diego"
"LangAbbrev"="esp"
"Language"="Espa\xf1ol"
"LastName"="Jacobi"
"LocaleId"="40A"
"NetSupport"="TCP"
"Organization"="."
"ProductCode"="{blablablablabla}"
"ProductId"="1"
"ProductName"="AutoCAD 2002 - Espa\xf1ol"
"Release"="15.0.6.030"
"SerialNumber"="000-00000000"
"StandaloneNetworkType"=dword:00000001
"TextEditor"="o"
The path where dlls are, are setted up on ACAD key. But wine doesn't
load them if the are not on the PATH.
Duane Clark
I think Wine by default will look in c:\windows for applications, and
that is where those are located.
Duane Clark
So on a Windows system, acad will run without the path to the dlls being
in the PATH? If so, it does sound like something is going wrong with the
ACAD variable. That should be fairly straightforward to debug and fix if
you were interested in doing so. And would be a fairly simple problem to
get you introduced to debugging and fixing Wine, before moving on to
more complex problems ;)
Diego
I believe that autocad just concate ACAD with PATH at the beggning and
then loads all needed dlls.
But this doesn't seems like an error. I will try harder with this when
i got some little time on this week.
mcv
> Reading the FAQ i see the Wine 1.0 Release Criteria which include a
> list of "good candidates with no autoupdate".
> I just want to mention that i have NEVER used one of those Microsoft
> programs.
> I better think that the list of candidates should be those programs
> that there are no way alternatives on linux, becouse for M$ Office we
> do have OpenOffice, and i will never choose to run M$ programm under
> linux unless necessary. Those programms mostly are professional
> software.
>
> I will suggest some programs which i consider really necessary with
> this criteria:
> - Photoshop (already listed)
> - Proteus VSM (an excelent Electronic CAD with circuit simulation and
> alternatives in linux) http://www.labcenter.co.uk
> - AutoCAD ( my architect friends can not live without it, so they can
> not live in linux )
> - IE6 or 7 as lots of applications use it embedded (like governmental
> applications in my country)
> - A bind for python to call dlls as with ctypes in linux.
I think the most important criterium is actually games. I kinda agree
with Photoshop, and I agree that most other applications already have
perfectly fine alternatives. The main thing that wine has trouble with,
and the main reason why a lot of people (including me) want to use it,
is to play games for Windows without requiring a dual boot.
mcv.
--
Science is not the be-all and end-all of human existence. It's a tool.
A very powerful tool, but not the only tool. And if only that which
could be verified scientifically was considered real, then nearly all
of human experience would be not-real. -- Zachriel
Diego
> Diego <jacobidi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Reading the FAQ i see the Wine 1.0 Release Criteria which include a
> > list of "good candidates with no autoupdate".
> > I just want to mention that i have NEVER used one of those Microsoft
> > programs.
> > I better think that the list of candidates should be those programs
> > that there are no way alternatives on linux, becouse for M$ Office we
> > do have OpenOffice, and i will never choose to run M$ programm under
> > linux unless necessary. Those programms mostly are professional
> > software.
>
> > I will suggest some programs which i consider really necessary with
> > this criteria:
> > - Photoshop (already listed)
> > - Proteus VSM (an excelent Electronic CAD with circuit simulation and
> > - AutoCAD ( my architect friends can not live without it, so they can
> > not live in linux )
> > - IE6 or 7 as lots of applications use it embedded (like governmental
> > applications in my country)
> > - A bind for python to call dlls as with ctypes in linux.
>
> I think the most important criterium is actually games. I kinda agree
> with Photoshop, and I agree that most other applications already have
> perfectly fine alternatives. The main thing that wine has trouble with,
> and the main reason why a lot of people (including me) want to use it,
> is to play games for Windows without requiring a dual boot.
>
> mcv.
> --
> Science is not the be-all and end-all of human existence. It's a tool.
> A very powerful tool, but not the only tool. And if only that which
> could be verified scientifically was considered real, then nearly all
> of human experience would be not-real. -- Zachriel
I disagree.
In my experience with wine, it haves better support for games than for
applications.
A Doctor, Mathematician, Engineer, Lawyer, Secretaries, will not be
able to move to linux after their office applications get moved too.
Also there are applications like Ares which arent on linux and windows
users loves in a every day basis.
DanKegel
> Reading the FAQ i see the Wine 1.0 Release Criteria which include a
>
> I will suggest some programs which i consider really necessary with
> this criteria:
> - Proteus VSM (an excelent Electronic CAD with circuit simulation
> and alternatives in linux) http://www.labcenter.co.uk
That has a paltry 80 thousand hits in Google, which makes
it kind of a niche app, so I'm not sure it fits the criteria.
I gather this is the free trial:
http://www.labcenter.co.uk/download/prodemo_download.htm
It had some hitches installing (the outer installer hung,
the inner installer it left behind ran, but five or six times
claimed "too many files open", and you had to click ignore
each time to finish the install. (File handle leak?)
Finally, running ares.exe crashed after putting up the UI.
I filed bug http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11542 for this.
> - AutoCAD ( my architect friends can not live without it, so they can
> not live in linux )
That's going to be tough. You might want to pick an easier target.
We're not likely to be able to handle that for wine 1.0.
> - IE6 or 7 as lots of applications use it embedded (like governmental
> applications in my country)
Wine contains its own implementation of an IE-compatible
browser, and we're not going to support installing IE. Better
to focus on the actual apps you want to run rather than IE itself.
> - A bind for python to call dlls as with ctypes in linux.
Can you give more details? Not sure what you're talking
about. We're not likely to support loading Windows DLLs
from Linux Python, but if you find something that doesn't
work in Windows Python on Wine, let us know.
- Dan
Diego
> On Jan 26, 6:56 am, Diego <jacobidi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Reading the FAQ i see the Wine 1.0 Release Criteria which include a
> > list of "good candidates with no autoupdate"....
>
> > I will suggest some programs which i consider really necessary with
> > this criteria:
> > ...
> > - Proteus VSM (an excelent Electronic CAD with circuit simulation
>
> That has a paltry 80 thousand hits in Google, which makes
> it kind of a niche app, so I'm not sure it fits the criteria.
> I gather this is the free trial:http://www.labcenter.co.uk/download/prodemo_download.htm
> It had some hitches installing (the outer installer hung,
> the inner installer it left behind ran, but five or six times
> claimed "too many files open", and you had to click ignore
> each time to finish the install. (File handle leak?)
> Finally, running ares.exe crashed after putting up the UI.
> I filed bug http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11542for this.
I could mention other completes Electronics CADs like Protel, Orcad,
Eagle(sucks), Workbench, Circuitmaker, etc.
Some have a very old interface i have not tested them yet on linux.
But none of it are will get inside your criteria of "google hits".
Orcad is the biggest i have ever tested but it is too heavy and
difficult for simple task.
Proteus haves all the features needed by an student and those needed
for a profesional here. Becouse of the circuit simulation feature, it
makes the learning curve much more easy. Circuitmaker can also
simulate but not even close to Proteus capabilities.
Any way, is not hard to work with it inside a Virtual Machine, just
need more cpu when simulating, but i think that wine should focus on
solutions which are on windows but not on linux, and only-open-office-
applications are not one of them becouse the existence of OO and other
kits.
> > - AutoCAD ( my architect friends can not live without it, so they can
> > not live in linux )
>
> That's going to be tough. You might want to pick an easier target.
> We're not likely to be able to handle that for wine 1.0.
Yep, i understand, but sadly AutoCAD is on every business i know here,
and QCad is not even near to AutoCAD.
It keeps companies from moving to linux and of course, students (or
new profesionals) have to learn what the job availability needs, which
in this case is AutoCAD in windows.
> > - IE6 or 7 as lots of applications use it embedded (like governmental
> > applications in my country)
>
> Wine contains its own implementation of an IE-compatible
> browser, and we're not going to support installing IE. Better
> to focus on the actual apps you want to run rather than IE itself.
Yes, sry. I post it before read extensivelly wine docs.
My country is specialiced on making really sucking web applications
which doesn't work well on firefox. :(
> > - A bind for python to call dlls as with ctypes in linux.
>
> Can you give more details? Not sure what you're talking
> about. We're not likely to support loading Windows DLLs
> from Linux Python, but if you find something that doesn't
> work in Windows Python on Wine, let us know.
> - Dan
Well, that is not so usefull for most people. :)
I can remember when i have had on windows the need to use certain old
dlls becouse in my university every student use it to make the
electronic project done. In this time i use windows xp, and this dll
was for win95 it wasn't working very well becouse in winxp can not
access hardware directly. So i had to get inside the dlls to have a
clue of WTF does this dll.
Another thing is that python applications using the winpython api will
work nativelly on linux if winpython get ported to wine. Instead of
emulating the windows python interpreter. But there are not much
usefull programs writen with winpython.
As i say, this is not very usefull for most people.
Cheers.
jhan...@gmail.com
> I could mention other completes Electronics CADs like Protel, Orcad,
> Eagle(sucks), Workbench, Circuitmaker, etc.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Electronic_design_automation_software
On Ubuntu: apt-get install eagle (the light version is in multiverse)
> Yep, i understand, but sadly AutoCAD is on every business i know here,
> and QCad is not even near to AutoCAD.
How many of those businesses actually paid for it?
> It keeps companies from moving to linux and of course, students (or
> new profesionals) have to learn what the job availability needs, which
> in this case is AutoCAD in windows.
AutoCAD is a significant but not a market-defining application. It's
only a mid-level CAD package. There are a few dozen competitors:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Computer-aided_design_software
Any draftsperson can learn a new system unless they are being
stubborn. It's a lot more difficult to learn mechanical design then
to learn a new software package. Companies switch CAD applications
all the time, especially when switching technology levels like from 2D
to 3D in mechanical design.
I'm a PCB designer and electrical CAD software is the same situation.
I don't go to a new customer and assume they're using Altium DXP
because there are a few dozen different packages and nobody has a
majority market share. I use whatever they've got. I don't even
bother trying to do import/export between different systems because it
almost never works (EDIF is a joke). When revising an old design on a
new CAD system if all you can import is RS-274X (the Postscript of the
PCB CAD industry) then it's faster to just recapture the design
manually.
In the mechanical design world the 2D standard is supposedly DXF but
it's backwards compatibility makes Word DOCs look stable. For 3D,
IGES is primitive but popular enough that it's successor, STEP, has
yet to replace it. Newer elements like parametrics are still hard to
convert.
It would be so much easier if M$ would take over the CAD market and
standardize a nice undocumented binary blob CAD file format with lots
of patents on it but unfortunately we're stuck with CHOICE.
The solution to legacy application support is no different than when
dealing with any software change in a business - use both. Keep
AutoCAD around for legacy documents and use something else (Linux-
compatible) for new documents. Just run it in a VM and don't bother
upgrading any more. If an old document needs a lot of revisions then
either convert it or recapture it.
Diego
> On Feb 11, 7:13 am, Diego <jacobidi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I could mention other completes Electronics CADs like Protel, Orcad,
> > Eagle(sucks), Workbench, Circuitmaker, etc.
>
>
> On Ubuntu: apt-get install eagle (the light version is in multiverse)
I try to use eagle for every new circuit design, but it really is far
away from Proteus, it slows me down on designing due to interface
tricks, and out of features, and i can not really recommend linux to
my Uni-friends because there is no good support for this kind of
stuff.
> > Yep, i understand, but sadly AutoCAD is on every business i know here,
> > and QCad is not even near to AutoCAD.
>
> How many of those businesses actually paid for it?
I dont think that this is a reason for wine not going to support
AutoCAD.
As i say i have a Architect Student friend. His teachers tells the
students to present every file as AutoCAD, also they teach some basics
on SketchUp and presented some features on Blender and other 3D tools.
But they want every project to be in AutoCAD.
What should my friend do? Not studying? He will prefer never touch
linux.
Also Linux needs more professionals outside the programmer-kind-group.
And companies will not force they employees to move to linux if any of
its employees knows a bit of linux. The best stage to learn linux is
before finishing the studies.
Well, you make obvius that you have much more experience than me,
thats great.
I just tell you what i see.
AutoCAD is teached on every Engineering or Technological University
here in Argentina. And thanks God something is teached on the
computer.
And Business will not hire people who dont use the software they use.
The government, Telecom, Telefonica, etc. etc. uses AutoCAD, so they
also dont use linux.
The best thing will be if AutoCAD's Company invest on wine support for
they product as google does, but, i think that nobody request that to
this Company becouse they are already working on windows and the
computer maintenance is not made by Architects.
Ah, also Proteus is able to install on wine 0.9.55 (but not on 0.9.54)
and dont know about 0.9.56 becouse its ubuntu package is not realease
yet. I have to expect it to be released when 0.9.57 comes out.
Proteus just have some minor bugs that makes it Garbage. Fixing this
it could be maybe Gold.
Cheers.
Diego
Darren Wilkinson
Your game may have a registry entry showing where the game files are
installed and that's how that game knows where to look. Wine doesn't cd
to the exe's directory when it runs an app. If you're currently in
/home/user and you try "wine/stuff/mygame.exe" it may want to find its
music files in ./music or .dat files in ./data. Wine would end up
looking in /home/user/music or /home/user/data if you didn't cd first.