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Xah Lee  
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 More options Jun 8 2011, 11:01 am
Newsgroups: comp.emacs, comp.lang.lisp
From: Xah Lee <xah...@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 08:01:05 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Wed, Jun 8 2011 11:01 am
Subject: keyboard porn!
Folks, this is OF INTEREST!

〈Keyboard Porn〉
http://xahlee.org/kbd/keyboard_porn.html

plain text version follows, but as Alice said, “what is the use …,
without pictures …?”.

-------------------------------------
Keyboard Porn

Xah Lee, 2011-06-08

When i look at computer keyboards, saliva drools from the corner of my
mouth.

You know how girls do window shopping as a life-long regular activity?
and some guys do window shopping of cars? I don't need another
keyboard, i already have plenty. But, i look at them, look for them,
stare at them for hours, every week. I:

• Compare their sizes, the keys on them.

• How they label their keys. Do they say Page Up or PgUp, Enter or
Return? Do they use glyph like ⇧ Shift and Enter ↵? ↵ or ↩ or ⏎? What
glyph they use for Zoom, Mute, Home, Search?

• The key's positions, arrangement. Are the arrow keys in inverted T?
In one row? In a cross? How's Home/End key cluster shaped?

• What are special buttons and knobs they offer. Sound level
controller as slider? As rotary knob? flat wheel? Touch bar? Zoom as
seesaw rocker?

What's their functions, the style of the keys, their height, tactile
sensations, the differences between them, their ergonomic
implications, the implications for Emacs use ….

This page is a gallery of keyboards. I look and think about them.

Microsoft Wired Keyboard 200

This is the cheapest keyboard that Microsoft offers.
Microsoft wired Keyboard 200 2

“Microsoft Wired Keyboard 200” ($15)

If i were to use a non-split keyboard, i'll like this. Plain and
functional. Note the standard F keys, arranged in traditional 4
blocks. This allows pressing them without looking. Also, the keys are
full-sized. Nice. Some fancier keyboard make these into one continuous
row, and as flattened non-tactile buttons.

I'll take this keyboard than the ~$80 Happy Hacking keyboard any day.
(See: The Idiocy of Hacker Keyboards.)
Microsoft Wired Keyboard 600

This is second cheapest from Microsoft.
Microsoft wired keyboard 600

“Wired Keyboard 600” ($14)

Added are some multimedia keys. But as you can see, there's one
immediate fuckup already. The function keys now became special
buttons, losing the tactile quality of keys.
Microsoft Wireless Keyboard 2000

This is new. Seems just came out in 2011. Not available on Amazon, but
street price is $21.
Microsoft wireless keyboard 2000

“Microsoft Wireless Keyboard 2000”

Notice tha there's no gap between the arrow keys and ajacent key
blocks. LOL

Also new is that they replaced the right Windows key with a Fn key.
Microsoft Digital Media Keyboard 3000
Microsoft digital media keyboard 3000-s

“Digital Media Keyboard 3000” ($25) ❐

Interesting is that these days they have a dedicated Flip3D button. I
think this is a very nice feature. (See: Windows Flip3D, Instant
Viewer, Productivity Tips.)

Also interesting is that, a wireless version, with a mouse, is
actually cheaper. See: “Wireless Media Desktop 1000” ($22),,
Microsoft Wireless Comfort Desktop 5000
Microsoft wireless comfort desktop 5000 keyboard 2

“Microsoft Wireless Comfort Desktop 5000”

Notice the top buttons — one continuous beatific row. You can't feel
them, but you must look!
Microsoft Wireless Keyboard 6000
Microsoft wireless keyboard 6000

“Microsoft Wireless Keyboard 6000” ($30)

There is a desktop set with this keyboard, named “Microsoft Wireless
Desktop 6000”. But actually, there are 3 generations of this keyboard
+mouse set, all physically different but sharing the same name, with
“v1”, “v2”, “v3” on Amazon. The v1 is dramatically different than the
other two. Dunno why Microsoft named them the same.

    “Microsoft Wireless Laser Desktop 6000 v1 (B7T-00001)” (2004)
    “Microsoft Wireless Laser Desktop 6000 v2 (69A-00001)” (2006)
    “Microsoft Wireless Laser Desktop 6000 v3” (2008)

They all got very bad reviews. Usually like connection problems.
Logitech K120 Keyboard

This is Logitech's entry level keyboard.
Logitech K120 keyboard

“Logitech K120 Keyboard” ($15)

Notice that Logitech uses these symbols for the arrow keys ◀ ▶ ▲ ▼.
However, the up/down triangles are also used for Page Up/Page Down
keys. I see inconsistency.
Logitech Wireless Keyboard K250
Logitech wireless keyboard k250 1 Logitech wireless keyboard k250 2
Logitech keyboard k250 m305 fleur set

“Logitech Wireless Keyboard K250” ($25)

This one is beautiful! On Amazon, the product name has “Dark Fleur”.
The word “fleur” means flower in French. Apparantly, this is part of a
series of Logitech's “Fantasy Collection”. There's a matching mouse.
Logitech wireless mouse m305 dark fleur-s

“Logitech wireless mouse M305 (Dark Fleur)” ❐
Logitech Wireless Desktop MK320 Keyboard
Logitech wireless desktop mk320 keyboard

“Logitech Wireless Desktop MK320 Keyboard” ($30)
Logitech Illuminated Ultrathin Keyboard
Logitech Illuminated fullres-s

“Logitech Illuminated Ultrathin Keyboard” ($60) ❐

This is one flatness. Notice, that instead of special extra buttons,
now they are integrated into the function keys. So, now to play your
music, instead of pressing one button, now you have to press 2
buttons: 【Fn+F11】.
Logitech Wireless Solar Keyboard K750

Logitech created a solar powered keyboard. New in 2011.
Logitech wireless solar keyboard k750

“Logitech Wireless Solar Keyboard K750” ($60)

Really love it, but not for me, because: ① Not ergonomic. ② Lack of
extra buttons.
Microsoft Bluetooth Mobile Keyboard 6000 (Cat Keyboard Hero)
Microsoft bluetooth mobile keyboard 6000 Microsoft bluetooth mobile
keyboard 6000 3

“Microsoft Bluetooth Mobile Keyboard 6000”

This comes in 2 versions, with or without number-pad. It seems that
this keyboard is also called “cat keyboard hero”, because the images
on Microsoft site is named that.

    without numbper pad. ($40)
    with numbper pad. ($44)

Logitech Wireless Desktop MK710 (keyboard & mouse)
Logitech wireless desktop mk710 keyboard 1 Logitech wireless desktop
mk710 keyboard 2

“Logitech Wireless Desktop MK710” ($76)

Getting fancy. But if you type a lot, this is worse than the $15 ones.
Microsoft Arc Keyboard

This is new in 2011.
Microsoft arc keyboard 1 Microsoft arc keyboard 2

“Microsoft Arc Keyboard” ($40)

Apparantly, this is intended for those sitting in their sofa watching
TV or playing games. Note the newfangled arrow button.
Microsoft arc keyboard 3

I think it's neat.
Smartfish Technologies K2418B ErgoMotion Keyboard

Now comes this smooth bull.
Smartfish Technologies k2418b ergomotion keyboard

“Smartfish Technologies K2418B ErgoMotion Keyboard” ($149)

Quote from Amazon

    This ErgoMotion keyboard with its patented pivot-motion design
that automatically adjusts to your natural hand and wrist position is
the world's first intelligent keyboard that prevents Repetitive Stress
Injury. The patented DPC - Dynamic Positioning Controller
automatically moves based on your use pattern capitalizing on
productivity while diminishing operator hand and wrist fatigue and
discomfort.

Supposedly, this keyboard moves slowly, by a built-in motor, so that
your hand muscle use is not always the same from the same position,
thus preventing you from getting a Repeatitive Strain Injury. But,
from its beautiful modern geometric look, like Apple's keyboard, i can
tell you right away it's ergonomic garbage.

------------------------------
All Garbage. They Are ALL Garbage!

Ok. Spend 9 hours on this now. I think that's enough keyboard geeking
today. None of these keyboards i can use. They all have multitudes of
serious flaws:

    • Function keys not as real keys (but lousy buttons without
tactile feedback on whether the key is registered; and hard to press
repeatedly (e.g. Sound Level Increase key))
    • Function keys in one fucking beatific continuous row. This makes
them useless without having to look at them.
    • Multimedia keys and app launcher and other buttons integrated
into the F keys. This means, you have to press 2 keys, usually
requiring both hands, with the Fn.
    • The keyboard is non-split. PAIN follows your typing eloquence or
verbosity.
    • Flat shallow keys. Shallowness is not my style. I prefer depth
and solidity.
    • I don't want a damn Fn on the bottom right. I want the Menu key
and or Win key. Because, i can remap them to Super or Hyper for Emacs
for many purposes. Fn key is usally hardwired and hardware-specific.
That means a dead-horse sitting on your keyboard.

For keyboard that i deem useful for programers or heavy typers, see:
Ergonomic Keyboards Gallery.

Note: all prices on this page are from Amazon as of 2011-06.

 Xah


 
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des...@verizon.net  
View profile  
 More options Jun 8 2011, 12:12 pm
Newsgroups: comp.emacs, comp.lang.lisp
From: des...@verizon.net
Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2011 12:12:52 -0400
Local: Wed, Jun 8 2011 12:12 pm
Subject: Re: keyboard porn!

Xah Lee <xah...@gmail.com> writes:
> Folks, this is OF INTEREST!

> 〈Keyboard Porn〉
> http://xahlee.org/kbd/keyboard_porn.html

Nice pictures.
One of the stores I frequent has an Apple system on the
front desk.  The 30 inch flat panel is impressive enough
but it has a white, flat, wireless keyboard, with flat keys
on it that blows me away.

Not sure it would be any good to type on but the appearance is
really slick.

--
Dan Espen


 
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RS Wood  
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 More options Jun 8 2011, 1:09 pm
Newsgroups: comp.emacs
From: RS Wood <ra...@therandymon.com>
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 17:09:56 +0000 (UTC)
Local: Wed, Jun 8 2011 1:09 pm
Subject: Re: keyboard porn!
On 2011-06-08, des...@verizon.net <des...@verizon.net> wrote:

I am a huge fan of my Kinesis Ergo and my Happy Hacker II.  They're good
for different reasons and I alternate between them.  The Kinesis was
$300 if I recall, attached to an $800 computer.  But man, worth every
dime - it is SO comfortable.

It was tough getting it to work with emacs, but I finally came up with a
custom keyboard scheme that was comfortable.


 
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Xah Lee  
View profile  
 More options Jun 8 2011, 6:06 pm
Newsgroups: comp.emacs, comp.lang.lisp
From: Xah Lee <xah...@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 15:06:53 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Wed, Jun 8 2011 6:06 pm
Subject: Re: keyboard porn!

On Jun 8, 10:09 am, RS Wood <ra...@therandymon.com> wrote:

> On 2011-06-08, des...@verizon.net <des...@verizon.net> wrote:
> I am a huge fan of my Kinesis Ergo and my Happy Hacker II.  They're good
> for different reasons and I alternate between them.  The Kinesis was
> $300 if I recall, attached to an $800 computer.  But man, worth every
> dime - it is SO comfortable.

> It was tough getting it to work with emacs, but I finally came up with a
> custom keyboard scheme that was comfortable.

O, Happy Hacking keyboard. I cannot bear to hear that name. (how can
you love Kinesis and also HHK?)

Inspired by your post, i took 3 hours and produced:

〈The Idiocy of the Happy Hacking Keyboard〉
http://xahlee.org/kbd/idiocy_of_happy_hacking_keyboard.html

plain text version follows.
----------------------------------------------------

The Idiocy of the Happy Hacking Keyboard

Xah Lee, 2011-06-08

There is a computer keyboard, called the Happy Hacking keyboard (HHK).
It is a keyboard often loved by “hackers”, and is one of the most
idiotic keyboard. Let me count the ways.
happy hacking keyboard lite2

The Happy Hacking keyboard, model lite 2. image source amazon

------------------------------
Missing 12 Function Keys

It lacks 12 function keys. TWELVE of them! One, two, three, …, four,
five, six, and more. Continue counting: seven, and eight and nine.
Then, we add another digit to hit 10 in a decimal system. Then, eleven
as in Seven-Eleven, and twelve, as in: twelve days of xmas. Twelve
programable keys down the drain! What to do if you need them? You have
to press 2 keys: 【Fn+‹key›】. What happened to the concept of
efficiency?

------------------------------
Missing Page Navigation Keys and 20 Extra Function Keys

Bygone are the extremely convenient dedicated page navigation keys:
Home, End, Page Up, Page Down.

Of course, PrtScn, ScrLk, Pause keys, and the whole 17 keys on number-
keypad are gone too. Sure, you can do without them, but for
programers, that's another 17 programable function keys gone. The HHK
is supposed to be used by programers, right?

------------------------------
Missing Modifier Keys

Ok, now you lost 33 keys to automate your work. To make up the lost
keys, the Control+Meta+Alt must be going strong on the HHK. But on
HHK, it has fewer modifier keys than cheap generic PC keyboard! What
the fuck⁈

There's Alt and Ctrl, ok, and there's ◇ Meta and Fn. What about my
Super and Hyper keys? On a standard $15 PC keyboard, i have 1 or 2
more modifier keys than the $80 Happy Hacking. Let's do comparison
here.

$80 Happy Hacking, you have:

1 Control, 2 Alt, 2 ◇ Meta, 2 Fn. (am not sure the Fn count here
because usualy it is hard-wired in the keyboard circuitry thus the OS
doesn't see it.) That's a total of 7 modifiers. If not counting Fn,
then it's 5.

On $15 nameless USB keyboard, you have:

2 Control, 2 Alt, 2 Super (Win key), 1 Menu key, 1 Caps Lock (the Menu
and Caps Lock can both be remapped to any of {Meta, Super, Hyper}, as
can the left Win key or right Win key, independently.). That's a total
of 8 modifiers.
Microsoft wired Keyboard 200 2

Cheapest Microsoft keyboard the “Microsoft Wired Keyboard 200” ($15).
amazon Logitech K120 ($15) is just about the same.

------------------------------
Non-Symmetric Position of Modifier Keys

Non-symmetric position of modifier keys. If you look at the distance
from F to the left ◇ Meta versus J to the right ◇ Meta, you see that
they are not symmetric. The right side modifer requires you to curl in
thumb deeper.

Many cheap PC keyboards have the modifier keys symmetrically
positioned. (e.g. “Microsoft Wireless Keyboard 2000” ($21), Microsoft
Comfort Curve ($17), “Microsoft Natural Elite” (~$30.) amazon, and
lots others from other brands.)

------------------------------
unix, vi, emacs, Advantage?

I presume those who like HHK are unix users and the reason they like
it is due to some key's layout. Namely:

    • The Esc key is at right above the Tab key. The Esc key is
frequently used in vi text editor. (See: Emergency vi (vi tutorial).)
    • The Control key is right to the left of A key. The Control is
frequently used in Emacs text editor, in unix shell. (See: Xah Emacs
Tutorial ◇ Unix Shell Text Processing Tutorial.)
    • The ⌦ Delete key is right above the Enter key. There's no ⌫
Backspace key. To do backward delete, you have to press 【Fn+Delete】.
(On unix terminal, you can backward delete by 【Ctrl+h】 and forward
delete by 【Ctrl+d】.)

Each of these key positions are actually inferior to optimal. For
example, if you are vi user, the optimal position for Esc is where the
PC keyboard's Caps Lock is at, or, one of the big Alt right under
thumb (as one of the strong design point of Kinesis Contoured
Keyboard.).

If you are a emacs user, the optimal position for Control is the 2 big
Alt key on Microsoft ergonomic keyboards right under your thumbs, 2 of
them, symmetrically placed, pressed by a strong finger thumb. Or,
alternatively, as Caps Lock on left side AND the Enter on right side.
(a design point advanced by Truely Ergonomic keyboard. See photos at:
Fancy Ergonomic Keyboards You Didn't Know Existed)

For the ⌦ Delete key, am not sure what advantage it serves on the HHK.
For emacs, vi, bash, or any text editing, backward delete is more
frequently needed. It would be better if that key is ⌫ Backspace.

 Xah


 
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RS Wood  
View profile  
 More options Jun 8 2011, 6:57 pm
Newsgroups: comp.emacs
From: RS Wood <ra...@therandymon.com>
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 22:57:54 +0000 (UTC)
Local: Wed, Jun 8 2011 6:57 pm
Subject: Re: keyboard porn!
On 2011-06-08, Xah Lee <xah...@gmail.com> wrote:

Just goes to show you, to each his/her own: one man's trash is another man's
treasure.  I like the small layout, easy-to-reach ESC, and the lack of
function keys to me is a feature, not a failure.  

Happy typing!


 
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Petter Gustad  
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 More options Jun 9 2011, 1:53 am
Newsgroups: comp.emacs
From: Petter Gustad <newsmailco...@gustad.com>
Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2011 07:53:17 +0200
Local: Thurs, Jun 9 2011 1:53 am
Subject: Re: keyboard porn!

RS Wood <ra...@therandymon.com> writes:
>> 〈The Idiocy of the Happy Hacking Keyboard〉
>> http://xahlee.org/kbd/idiocy_of_happy_hacking_keyboard.html

> Just goes to show you, to each his/her own: one man's trash is another man's
> treasure.  I like the small layout, easy-to-reach ESC, and the lack of
> function keys to me is a feature, not a failure.  

I agree. I have several happy hacking keyboards. I never use the
function keys, I never use the naviation keys, I do like to press
control with my left pinky. The keyboards are of good quality, mine
have lasted for years, unlike several of my other Logitech and
Microsoft keyboards. I also had a Microsoft natural keyboard for some
time and never got used to press the control key with the palm of my
hand. Also, there's a dip switch on the back so you can swap
delete/backspace if you don't want to do it using xmodmap or similar
utility.

//Petter

--
.sig removed by request.


 
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David Kastrup  
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 More options Jun 9 2011, 3:15 am
Newsgroups: comp.emacs
From: David Kastrup <d...@gnu.org>
Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2011 09:15:06 +0200
Local: Thurs, Jun 9 2011 3:15 am
Subject: Re: keyboard porn!

The most robust keyboard I ever had was this:

<URL:http://www.nascomhomepage.com/pics/NASKBD.JPG>

The keys were contactless, just a rod entering a coil.  The cursor keys
were placed _very_ convenient and ergonomic.  This thing didn't mind
years of heavy gaming.  The only mechanical weakness was the mechanism
that synchronized left and right side of the spacebar (you could hit the
large bar anywhere without a difference): under heavy battering it had a
slight tendency to unhinge, but could be snapped back in easily enough.

In an age where "personal" or "home" computers commonly sported
disintegrating keyboards, this was heaven.

--
David Kastrup


 
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Pascal J. Bourguignon  
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 More options Jun 9 2011, 5:52 am
Newsgroups: comp.emacs
From: "Pascal J. Bourguignon" <p...@informatimago.com>
Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2011 11:52:08 +0200
Local: Thurs, Jun 9 2011 5:52 am
Subject: Re: keyboard porn!

David Kastrup <d...@gnu.org> writes:
> The most robust keyboard I ever had was this:

> <URL:http://www.nascomhomepage.com/pics/NASKBD.JPG>

Oooh!  I understand now why the "enter" key is two key wide!
It's the CR key and the LF key combined...

> In an age where "personal" or "home" computers commonly sported
> disintegrating keyboards, this was heaven.

On the other hand, the disintegrating^W biodegradable keyboards cost
only 5 euros.  I could have bought 30 of them instead of my Filco
TenKeyLess.

--
__Pascal Bourguignon__                     http://www.informatimago.com/
A bad day in () is better than a good day in {}.


 
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djc  
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 More options Jun 10 2011, 6:44 am
Newsgroups: comp.emacs, comp.lang.lisp
From: djc <ne...@resiak.org>
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 12:44:53 +0200
Local: Fri, Jun 10 2011 6:44 am
Subject: Re: keyboard porn!
The keyboard on which I'm typing this is over 14 years old and shows no
sign of weakness.  Because the symbols are molded into the keys, not
printed on them, all the keys are still readable (as if I needed that! --
but someone else might).  The left shift key and the Ctrl keys show a
little fingernail wear.

Excellent spacing, excellent angle and layout, excellent feel.  Made by
DEC, in case you're old enough for that to mean anything to you.

Pete


 
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Jim Burton  
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 More options Jun 10 2011, 8:28 pm
Newsgroups: comp.emacs, comp.lang.lisp
From: Jim Burton <j...@sdf-eu.org>
Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2011 01:28:39 +0100
Local: Fri, Jun 10 2011 8:28 pm
Subject: Re: keyboard porn!

djc <ne...@resiak.org> writes:
> The keyboard on which I'm typing this is over 14 years old and shows no sign of weakness.  Because the symbols are molded into the keys, not printed on them, all the keys are still readable (as if I needed that! --
> but someone else might).  The left shift key and the Ctrl keys show a
> little fingernail wear.

> Excellent spacing, excellent angle and layout, excellent feel.  Made
> by DEC, in case you're old enough for that to mean anything to you.

> Pete

I'm in the same boat, having no complaints with my Model M. Almost all
alterations to this seem like backwards steps to me, but the Happy
Hacking keyboard is an exception IMHO. Each to their own.
--
J Burton
j...@sdf-eu.org

 
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Xah Lee  
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 More options Jun 12 2011, 3:19 am
Newsgroups: comp.emacs, comp.lang.lisp
From: Xah Lee <xah...@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2011 00:19:48 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Sun, Jun 12 2011 3:19 am
Subject: Re: keyboard porn!
another study on keyboard.

〈PC Keyboard Modifier Keys (A Short Survey)〉
http://xahlee.org/kbd/pc_keyboard_modifier_keys.html

------------------------------------------------
PC Keyboard Modifier Keys (A Short Survey)

Xah Lee, 2011-06-10

Took a hour to do a little survey of modifier keys on PC keyboards. On
the left side, vast majority of keyboards all have the same Ctrl, Win,
Alt, in that order. However, the right side is entirely a different
story. Here's some common design:

    ① Alt Win Menu Ctrl (most cheap keyboards)
    ② Alt Menu Ctrl (some Microsoft ergonomic models)
    ③ Alt Flip3D Menu Ctrl (some fancy (non-split) Microsoft models)
    ④ Alt Fn Ctrl (many Logitech keyboards)
    ⑤ Alt Ctrl. (keyboards of early 1990s)

If you look at the cheapest generic brand usb keyboards, they tend to
have all the modifiers. e.g. Alt Win Menu Ctrl. Both Logitech and
Microsoft's cheapest keyboards are like that. (See: PC keyboards
gallery.)

More expensive or fancy keyboards almost always have some other
arrangement. In particular, Logitech seems to start to have them like
this: Alt Fn Ctrl. This is functionally a downgrade. Because:

    ① Now you need to press 2 buttons instead of 1. For example, to
launch browser, now you need to hold Fn then press F7, instead of a
single button Web/Home.
    ② It removes a extra modifier key. For example, if there's a right
Win or a Menu key there, you can remap them to do something useful.
e.g. For your personal keyboard shortcuts, or for math symbols (APL
keyboard) input, or as Super or Hyper for emacs's over 1k key
shortcuts, or as convenient Esc in vi editor.

I cannot forgive such conspicuous idiocy. This happens on their
expensive models too. (e.g. Logitech Wave Keyboard.) However, it
doesn't happen on their gaming keyboards. (Good! Am relieved to know
that at least gamers knew the value of function keys!)

Most popular Microsoft split keyboards have Alt Menu Ctrl. (e.g. MS
Natural Ergonomic 4000.) This is not too bad. You lost one Win key as
extra modifier.

----------------------------------------
Why Keyboard Designers Remove the Right Win and Menu Key?

it's not hard to see why keyboard designers remove the right win and
menu key. First of all, those keys are useless.

---------------------------
One Win Key is Enough

The Win key is designed to invoke the 〖Start〗 menu or as global
shortcuts combo key. If you look at the assigned function, typically
they are not of the type that needs to be executed frequently in a
short time. (in constrast to Undo, for example) So, one left Win key
is enough. Also, the behavior of popping up the Start menu is annoying
if accidentally invoked. More reason for just a single Win key.

---------------------------
Menu Key is Useless by Default

The Menu key (aka App key), is designed to be application specific.
This is a fantastic idea. Imagine, each app will just have its own
shortcuts in the 【Menu+‹key›】 space. This won't conflict with the
system-wide 【Win+‹key›】 space, and won't infringe on F1 … F12 space
that is supposedly to be user defined.

Unfortunately, it seems no app took this advantage, and all the Menu
key do today is pop up a contex menu, which can be done with mouse's
right click.

So, the Menu by default is practically a useless key.
Removing Useless Keys

It's not good to have useless keys. So, manufactures try to remove
them, or improve them, to innovate, to get more customer love, thus
more money. Thus, MS either removed the right Win key, or introduced
the Flip3D key in place of of it. While, Logitech rid of both Win and
Menu and replace it with their Fn.

The move by Logitech is stupid, but it brings them one advantage. By
introducing Fn, it means they don't need to create 5 or 10 more
special buttons for launching apps etc, because Fn is to be used
together with the existing F1 to F12 keys. So, this saves them
manufaturing costs.

---------------------------
Misfortune For Programers

However, for programers or gamers who know how to use their keyboard
fully, the removal of Menu or right Win key is a misfortune. Because,
for us, it simply means a lost of modifier keys. Not just losing a
couple of keys, but keys at critically convenient spots for the right
thumb. The Logitech's Fn is particularly idiotic because Fn usually is
hardwired in keyboard circuitry and not visible to the operating
system. This means, you can't remap Fn. You can not have it be Super,
Hyper, Control, Meta, nor Esc. If you don't care for the pre-assigned
2-button combo of 【Fn+F‹n›】 to launch apps, then that Fn simply became
a dead horse squatting on the front seat.

A ideal solution for keyboard manufacturers, is to put Fn or Flip3D or
whatever there you think is innovation, but yet let the key be
accessible thru standard USB protocol or OS API, so that advanced
users can still access that key for whatever they may want to do with
it.

 Xah


 
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Elena  
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 More options Jun 12 2011, 11:58 am
Newsgroups: comp.emacs, comp.lang.lisp
From: Elena <egarr...@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2011 08:58:23 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Sun, Jun 12 2011 11:58 am
Subject: Re: keyboard porn!
On 12 Giu, 09:19, Xah Lee <xah...@gmail.com> wrote:

> ------------------------------------------------
> PC Keyboard Modifier Keys (A Short Survey)

> However, the right side is entirely a different story. Here's some common design:

>     ① Alt Win Menu Ctrl (most cheap keyboards)
>     ② Alt Menu Ctrl (some Microsoft ergonomic models)
>     ③ Alt Flip3D Menu Ctrl (some fancy (non-split) Microsoft models)
>     ④ Alt Fn Ctrl (many Logitech keyboards)
>     ⑤ Alt Ctrl. (keyboards of early 1990s)

Actually, things are worse than that: in ISO (European) layouts, there
is no right Alt key, since it has been replaced by AltGr.

I think modifier keys - Win key included - should always be on both
sides of a keyboard.

In Windows, Menu is equivalent to Shift+F10 (if I remember correctly).

As for the lack of Win key, you could always remap Win key chords to
Ctrl+Alt.

Thanks for writing this article: I'll pay attention to the modifier
keys whenever I'm going to buy a new laptop, where keyboards always
are a bit crippled.


 
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Andreas Eder  
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 More options Jun 13 2011, 11:07 am
Newsgroups: comp.emacs, comp.lang.lisp
From: Andreas Eder <andreas_e...@gmx.net>
Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 17:07:24 +0200
Local: Mon, Jun 13 2011 11:07 am
Subject: Re: keyboard porn!
Hi Xah,

>>>>> "Xah" == Xah Lee <xah...@gmail.com> writes:

    Xah> Menu Key is Useless by Default

    Xah> The Menu key (aka App key), is designed to be application specific.
    Xah> This is a fantastic idea. Imagine, each app will just have its own
    Xah> shortcuts in the 【Menu+‹key›】 space. This won't conflict with the
    Xah> system-wide 【Win+‹key›】 space, and won't infringe on F1 … F12 space
    Xah> that is supposedly to be user defined.

    Xah> Unfortunately, it seems no app took this advantage, and all the Menu
    Xah> key do today is pop up a contex menu, which can be done with mouse's
    Xah> right click.

    Xah> So, the Menu by default is practically a useless key.

Have you ever tried to press the menu key when in emacs?
Is it still useless? I use it all the time, since it is faster to press
for me than M-x.

'Andreas
--
ceterum censeo redmondinem esse delendam.


 
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Xah Lee  
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 More options Jun 13 2011, 12:41 pm
Newsgroups: comp.emacs, comp.lang.lisp
From: Xah Lee <xah...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 09:41:20 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Mon, Jun 13 2011 12:41 pm
Subject: Re: keyboard porn!
On Jun 13, 8:07 am, Andreas Eder <andreas_e...@gmx.net> wrote:
│ Hi Xah,

│ │││││ "Xah" == Xah Lee <xah...@gmail.com> writes:

│     Xah│ Menu Key is Useless by Default

│     Xah│ The Menu key (aka App key), is designed to be application
specific.
│     Xah│ This is a fantastic idea. Imagine, each app will just have
its own
│     Xah│ shortcuts in the 【Menu+‹key›】 space. This won't conflict
with the
│     Xah│ system-wide 【Win+‹key›】 space, and won't infringe on F1 …
F12 space
│     Xah│ that is supposedly to be user defined.

│     Xah│ Unfortunately, it seems no app took this advantage, and all
the Menu
│     Xah│ key do today is pop up a contex menu, which can be done
with mouse's
│     Xah│ right click.

│     Xah│ So, the Menu by default is practically a useless key.

│ Have you ever tried to press the menu key when in emacs?
│ Is it still useless? I use it all the time, since it is faster to
press
│ for me than M-x.

yeah, actually only recently discovered it. Though, that's on linux
only. Not in any distro of emacs i know of on Mac or Windows.

in the article, i wanted to keep it in the context of normal Window
program behavior, so i didn't mention emacs M-x. Thanks for mentioning
though.

for my own use, i decided that Caps Lock is best for emacs's execute-
extended-command. Like Elena, i prefer the modifiers to be symmetric
on both sides.

I do have a question, if you (or anyone knows). When did emacs start
to bind Menu to execute-extended-command? (i started to use emacs in
1997 thru various machines but when on unix always from telnet/ssh
from Mac or Windows, so never realized it.)

 Xah


 
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Xah Lee  
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 More options Jun 13 2011, 12:53 pm
Newsgroups: comp.emacs, comp.lang.lisp
From: Xah Lee <xah...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 09:53:40 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Mon, Jun 13 2011 12:53 pm
Subject: Re: keyboard porn!
On Jun 12, 8:58 am, Elena <egarr...@gmail.com> wrote:
│ On 12 Giu, 09:19, Xah Lee <xah...@gmail.com> wrote:

│ │ ------------------------------------------------
│ │ PC Keyboard Modifier Keys (A Short Survey)

│ │ However, the right side is entirely a different story. Here's some
common design:

│ │     ① Alt Win Menu Ctrl (most cheap keyboards)
│ │     ② Alt Menu Ctrl (some Microsoft ergonomic models)
│ │     ③ Alt Flip3D Menu Ctrl (some fancy (non-split) Microsoft
models)
│ │     ④ Alt Fn Ctrl (many Logitech keyboards)
│ │     ⑤ Alt Ctrl. (keyboards of early 1990s)

│ Actually, things are worse than that: in ISO (European) layouts,
there
│ is no right Alt key, since it has been replaced by AltGr.

Ah, thanks. I forgot about that.

Additonal info: On Windows, if the layout is set to one of the euro
lang, the right Alt became AltGr.

i have a question: in Europe and keyboard manufactured for Europe with
a real AltGr key, does that key actually send a different scancode
than the right Alt?

│ I think modifier keys - Win key included - should always be on both
│ sides of a keyboard.

I agree.

│ In Windows, Menu is equivalent to Shift+F10 (if I remember
correctly).

Yeah. Wikipedia has a lot detail: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Menu_key

though, one cannot expect them to be exactly equivalent, since it is
done in software layer.

│ As for the lack of Win key, you could always remap Win key chords to
│ Ctrl+Alt.

yeah. But then that interfere with emacs use of Ctrl+Meta. e.g. with
arrow key it navigate lisp code …

│ Thanks for writing this article: I'll pay attention to the modifier
│ keys whenever I'm going to buy a new laptop, where keyboards always
│ are a bit crippled.

thanks. Yeah laptop is one entire different story. I think i'll do a
survey of laptop layout soon. Already started to gather some pics. … i
think the main ones to start with is Apple's, HP/Compaq's, IBM/Levono,
and maybe some sony, toshiba, Acer, ...

i think prolonged use of laptop real quick to RSI anyway. I used
laptop (Apple) exclusively for 1 year in ~2004, that's the first time
i felt RSI coming. Then i got myself a external keyboard, in fact
opted for a ergonomic (split) one (of Microsoft), and now i never
looks back on straight keyboards ☺.

 Xah


 
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Elena  
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 More options Jun 13 2011, 1:52 pm
Newsgroups: comp.emacs, comp.lang.lisp
From: Elena <egarr...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 10:52:29 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Mon, Jun 13 2011 1:52 pm
Subject: Re: keyboard porn!
On 13 Giu, 18:53, Xah Lee <xah...@gmail.com> wrote:

I don't think so.  XKB on Linux identifies it as RALT anyway, and if I
remember correctly, Microsoft Keyboard Layout Creator has an option to
make AltGr out of Right Alt.  So, it's a driver issue.

> │ As for the lack of Win key, you could always remap Win key chords to
> │ Ctrl+Alt.

> yeah. But then that interfere with emacs use of Ctrl+Meta. e.g. with
> arrow key it navigate lisp code …

Well, you can't have your cake and eat it too.

Xah, do you still code the Emacs way?  Embrace Viper! ;-)

Oh, and you should check mechanical keyboards too.  Here you can find
some info about different keyswitches:
http://www.ergocanada.com/ergo/keyboards/mechanical_vs_membrane_keysw...


 
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Xah Lee  
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 More options Jun 13 2011, 2:02 pm
Newsgroups: comp.emacs, comp.lang.lisp
From: Xah Lee <xah...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 11:02:51 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Mon, Jun 13 2011 2:02 pm
Subject: Re: keyboard porn!
inspired by the discussion here, took some 4 hours to bake this one
over the past 3 days:

〈Computer Keyboard: Increase Productivity Using Function Keys〉
http://xahlee.org/kbd/keyboard_function_keys.html

plain text version follows.
--------------------------------------------------

Computer Keyboard: Increase Productivity Using Function Keys

Xah Lee, 2011-06-11

You have those F1 F2 … F12 keys on your keyboard right? For most
people, those keys are like a waste of space, never used. Many hotshot
programers who think they are great “hackers”, don't know how to use
these keys efficiently. These keys are the most useful productivity
enhancement keys. This page tells you what you can do with these keys,
why they are efficient, and how to set them.

--------------------------------------------------
Uses of Function Keys

======================
Switching Apps

One of the best use for function keys is switching apps. I've been
using this since 1992, across Mac and Windows.

Normally, to switch app you have to do 【Alt+Tab】 or 【⌘ Cmd+Tab】, or
even using Windows Flip3D or Instant Viewer or Mac's Exposé. They
involve multiple keys or followed by mouse click. The Tab is pressed
by pinky — the weakest finger. But worst is that you have to take a
second to eye-ball among 10 windows to look for the one you want.

For most of us, there are a few apps we use everyday, and have to
constantly switch to it many times every hour. Examples: web browser,
music player, email app, word processor or text editor, file manager
(desktop), instant messanger. For others, it may be some image editor,
video editor, command terminal, spreadsheet, etc.

It is extremely convenient to have a single key to switch to a
specific app you use often. For example, let's say your web browser is
Firefox. You can set F5 to switch/launch it. Doesn't matter which app
you are in, just one key, and you are back to Firefox instaneously. No
need to 【Ctrl+Tab】 and eye-ball with more Tab.

It's good to have F4 F5 F6 F7 for switching to the apps you use the
most often.

On Windows, if you have Quick Launch bar setup, the key is 【Win+1】 【Win
+2】 etc. Still, 2 keys too many. Another major problem is that, for
many apps such as browser, it'll just launch a new instance, not
switching to a existing window. On many keyboards, they also have
special buttons to launch apps. But these buttons have several
problems. ① They are hard to press, lacking tactile feedback. ② They
are in hard-to-reach places. ③ They require looking. Cannot be pressed
without looking, while F keys can.

======================
Undo, Cut, Copy, Paste

The traditional keys for {Undo, Cut, Copy, Paste} are Z X C V, while
holding Ctrl or Cmd. That's 2 key presses. You can set F1 F2 F3 F4 to
them.

Copy and Paste is by far the most used shortcut. Setting them to
single key saves you a lot time and hand stress.

======================
Switching Screens in Virtual Desktop

On Mac and Linux, you have workspace, a virtual screen. Typically, the
OS provide you with keys such as 【Ctrl+Alt+→】 to switch. That's 3
combo-keys with both hands.

If you use workspace heavily, then F9 F10 F11 F12 are perfect keys for
it.

======================
Switching Browser Tabs, Close Window

Today, web browsers support tabbed window. Often, you have 5 or 10
tabs in a browser. (for me, i do a lot research. Typically, i have 3
browsers open, each having more than 10 tabs) The hotkey to switch to
previous/next tab varies depending on browser. For example, for Next
Tab, there's:

    • 【Ctrl+Tab】 (Internet Explorer, Firefox, Safari)
    • 【Ctrl+PageDown】 (Firefox)
    • 【⌘ Cmd+Shift+→】 (Safari)
    • 【⌘ Cmd+⌥ Opt+→】 (Camino)
    • 1 and 2 on number keypad. (Opera)

They all require multiple keys. (except Opera) Using a mouse is more
cumbersome, because you have to take a second to aim at the right tab.

It would be very convenient to set F11 F12 for prev/next tab. Pressing
one of these key can quickly fly you thru all your tabs.

Also, you might set a key to close the current tab. By default, the
key is 【Ctrl+w】. For me, the key i choose is Pause, because that key
is never used. Its nice to set a key close to but away from F keys.
That way, you won't accidentally close a tab. (usually, in most
browsers, you can press 【Ctrl+Shift+t】 to reopen.)

--------------------------------------------------
Windows and Mac Tools for Keyboard Shortcuts and App Launchers

There are several quality launcher apps for Mac OS X. App Launcher
lets you set a key to launch/switch to the app. I recommend
Quicksilver. It's free. For many other, see: Mac OS X Keyboard Layout,
Keymapping, Keybinding, Tools.

For Windows, the best easy choice is to buy a Microsoft keyboard then
use the bundled IntelliType software. It's a GUI app, easy to use.
Highly recommended. If you are not sure, see: What Microsoft
IntelliType Can Do and Cannot Do.

On Windows, you can use AutoHotkey. It's also free. AutoHotkey is the
most powerful, but is for programer only because you have to spend
sometime to learn the language. Here's a quick tutorial: Windows
Programing: AutoHotkey Tutorial. For other options, see: Keyboard
Layout & Key Macro tools for Windows.

--------------------------------------------------
Choosing a Keyboard with Good Function Keys

======================
Avoid Continuous-Row Function Keys

You should choose a keyboard that has the function keys arranged in 3
blocks, 4 keys each. Avoid keyboards that have them as one continuous
row. Because, those arranged in blocks lets you easily press the
correct key without needing to look at the keyboard.

======================
Avoid Function Keys as Special Buttons

Also, you should avoid keyboard that has button-styled function keys.
The buttons are hard to press. Hard to know if you pressed them
correctly.

======================
Quick Keyboard Recommendation

Here's a quick recommendation. If you must have ergonomic keyboard
(split-keyboard) like me, then i recommend: Microsoft Natural
Ergonomic Keyboard 4000 or see Ergonomic Keyboards Gallery.
(Unfortunately, most ergonomic keyboard has function keys in one
continuous row.)

If straight keyboard is fine, then i recommend the cheapest PC
keyboard (usually under $15). (See: PC Keyboard gallery.)

If you want fancier straight keyboard, actually i recommend gaming
keyboards. Gaming keyboard provides the most key macro functionalities
by default. If you play games a lot, great, but if you don't play
games, the key macros feature would be fantastic, specially for
programers. e.g. “Logitech Gaming Keyboard G110” amazon. (Microsoft's
SideWinder X4 and X6's right side Alt key is far too the right, cannot
be pressed with thumb while remaining on home row, so i don't
recommend it.)

 Xah — Master of Keyboard. Antihero of the “Hackers” Fuck.


 
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Xah Lee  
View profile  
 More options Jun 21 2011, 10:00 am
Newsgroups: comp.emacs, comp.lang.lisp
From: Xah Lee <xah...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 07:00:48 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Tues, Jun 21 2011 10:00 am
Subject: Re: keyboard porn!
Dear keyboard fans,

Some new discoveries for you Happy Hacking keyboard fans and other
mechanical keyboard fans, including photos of a few mysterious,
fantastic, split, ergonomic keyboards from Japan.

〈Keyboard News: Ducky Keyboard, KBC Poker, Truly Ergonomic Keyboard〉
http://xahlee.org/kbd/2011-06_keyboard_news.html

plain text version follows, but as Alice said, “what is the use …,
without pictures …?”.

---------------------------------

   Keyboard News: Ducky Keyboard, KBC Poker, Truly Ergonomic Keyboard

   Xah Lee, 2011-06-18

   Several keyboard updates.

   Completely rewritten: [14]Keyboard Ghosting & N-key Rollover: How
Many
   Keys Your Keyboard Can Take?.

KBC Poker Keyboard

   For those who love the Happy Hacking Keyboard ([15]Happy Hacking
   Keyboard review), there's good news. There's seems to be a
competitor,
   called "KBC Poker keyboard", from Taiwan.

   school girl keyboard yea0999

   According to keyboard geek reviewers, her tongue got stuck in her
   braces due to the weight of this keyboard.

   KBC Poker keyboard

   "KBC Poker keyboard"

   KBC Poker keyboard 2

   "KBC Poker keyboard" [16]Source deskthority.net

   Note the dark engraved key labels. This is much more expensive than
   your Microsoft or Logitech mass-marketed keyboards.

   KBC Poker vs HHKB keyboard

   [17]Happy Hacking (HHKB) vs KeyBoard Cheer (KBC) Poker.

     * KBC Poker Review (2011-02-12) By Gasbag Guru (aka Sixty). @
       [18]Source deskthority.net
     * KBC Poker @ [19]Source keyboardporn.com
     * Review: KBC Poker - webwit's take (2011-02-19) By webwit. @
       [20]Source deskthority.net

   Here's a forum in China about this keyboard: [21]bbs.kbc-china.com.

   KBC keyboard banner

   It's funny. The name KBC stand for: "the Key Board to Cheer you
up".
   Nice counter to Happy Hacking.

Ducky Keyboard

   For those who love full-sized keyboard with mechanical switches
(e.g.
   Das and many others) , there's Ducky keyboard, again from Taiwan.
   (Cherry Brown switch, Cherry Blue for the numerical keypad keys.
Model
   DK9008) The company site is [22]duckykeyboard.com.

   Ducky keyboard DK9008

   "Ducky keyboard DK9008" [23]Source mognet.no-ip.info

   This keyboard seems to feature full n-key rollover. (See:
[24]Keyboard
   Ghosting & N-key Rollover: How Many Keys Your Keyboard Can Take?.)

   Also, note the black-on-black key labels. Seems the buyer can
choose
   the label or key colors.
     * Ducky Mechanical Keyboard (2011-02-13) @ [25]Source
       www.darkmirage.com
     * Another review, by Dotan Cohen, at [26]Source geekhack.org (no
       pics)

Truly Ergonomic Keyboard Ever Coming Out?

   For those who love [27]Kinesis Contoured Keyboard or otherwise
   ergonomic keyboard with mechanical switches, there's Truly
Ergonomic
   keyboard. (pics at [28]Fancy Ergonomic Keyboards) There's rumor
that
   this keyboard never went into production, and the company address
is
   fake. So, be careful and do your own research before you put your
   money in for a pre-order. See this thread: [29]Source
   www.overclock.net. According to Truly Ergonomic's website: «We are
   currently estimating the pre-order delivery date for July 2011.».
   That's next month. We shall soon see.

Datadesk Tech Smartboard Keyboard

   I would consider this the best key layout, ever.

   smartboard keyboard

   "Smartboard" [30]amazon [31]Source www.datadesktech.com

   If this keyboard is well-built, i think it is then better than
   [32]Kinesis Contoured Keyboard and "Truly Ergonomic Keyboard". On
par
   with [33]Microsoft Natural Ergonomic Keyboard 4000.

   According to reviewers at Amazon, the company Datadesk Tech seems
to
   be around as early as 1990s, and the company seems to be one-man
   running in basement.

Misc Fancy Ergonomic Keyboards

   utron-keyboard

   UTRON. [34]Source deskthority.net

   top keyboard

   [35]Source deskthority.net

   japanese ergonomic keyboards

   «¥¬»¹¥§®°£¸gasitaMKi-6Bo-6Do('83
´~)._¦ni³,_³ni³wo®siKi-6®noe5yasusato,
   _¦³¤µto°woµde¥dekiruKi-6niyori,_na¥¬¥wo¾sitatoi5u5._ªnadoni­
saretahoka
   ,_PC-8801/9801¨,_Windows¨gaº²sareta» [36]Source
pc.watch.impress.co.jp

   plum keyboard

   "PLUM keyboard" ('www.plum.bz)'

   marquardt mini ergo keyboard

   "Marquardt Mini-Ergo" (1992) [37]Source keyboardporn.com

---------------------------------

can anyone identify those split keyboard from Japan? I think those
make the best emacs keyboard.

 Xah


 
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