a SXemacs Q
Giacomo Boffi
Giacomo Boffi
> SXemacs
aak, i mispelled it! SXEmacs...
--
miao pinione -- Theo, in IHC
rene
> does SXemacs have support for antialiased fonts?
Have a try with Gnu Emacs 23. It's pretty nice
--
Giacomo Boffi
> On 4 ao�t, 12:23, Giacomo Boffi <giacomo.bo...@polimi.it> wrote:
>> does SXemacs have support for antialiased fonts?
>
> Have a try with Gnu Emacs 23. It's pretty nice
I would prefer not to.
--
anch'io la penso come me, ma -- SteO153, in IHC
David Kastrup
> rene <jl...@yahoo.com> writes:
>
>> On 4 ao�t, 12:23, Giacomo Boffi <giacomo.bo...@polimi.it> wrote:
>>> does SXemacs have support for antialiased fonts?
>>
>> Have a try with Gnu Emacs 23. It's pretty nice
>
> I would prefer not to.
Obviously, you want more letters than "XEmacs", not fewer ones, if you
ask about SXEmacs.
Since it is pretty clear that you know what you are looking for, just
for my personal nosiness:
[ ] Used to XEmacs
[ ] My favorite package runs best (or only) there
[ ] Don't (think I'd) get along with Emacs developers
[ ] Don't like the GUI of Emacs
[ ] Emacs is lacking functionality
[ ] Emacs is uncool/gives me the creeps
[ ] Other: _____
I don't want to debate it (and here would be the wrong place, anyway),
just nosy.
Thanks
--
David Kastrup
des...@verizon.net
> Giacomo Boffi <giacom...@polimi.it> writes:
>
>> rene <jl...@yahoo.com> writes:
>>
>>> On 4 ao�t, 12:23, Giacomo Boffi <giacomo.bo...@polimi.it> wrote:
>>>> does SXemacs have support for antialiased fonts?
>>>
>>> Have a try with Gnu Emacs 23. It's pretty nice
>>
>> I would prefer not to.
>
> Obviously, you want more letters than "XEmacs", not fewer ones, if you
> ask about SXEmacs.
>
> Since it is pretty clear that you know what you are looking for, just
> for my personal nosiness:
>
> [ ] Used to XEmacs
> [ ] My favorite package runs best (or only) there
> [ ] Don't (think I'd) get along with Emacs developers
> [ ] Don't like the GUI of Emacs
> [ ] Emacs is lacking functionality
> [ ] Emacs is uncool/gives me the creeps
> [ ] Other: _____
Oh, let me play.
I'm an XEmacs user since Lucid was in business.
Clearly XEmacs is in a development lull so I've been
trying Emacs the last few years.
What kept me from switching were problems font-locking the
Electric Buffer List. (Not a big deal but annoying enough.)
After years of trying I've finally figured out the problem
and I've switched back to Emacs. There are very few functional
differences.
Why switch?
Emacs is getting more development.
Emacs is faster.
Things I miss:
XEmacs bar-cursor
Currently using 22.3.1.
David Kastrup
> David Kastrup <d...@gnu.org> writes:
>>
>> [ ] Used to XEmacs
>> [ ] My favorite package runs best (or only) there
>> [ ] Don't (think I'd) get along with Emacs developers
>> [ ] Don't like the GUI of Emacs
>> [ ] Emacs is lacking functionality
>> [ ] Emacs is uncool/gives me the creeps
>> [ ] Other: _____
>
> Oh, let me play.
I am actually interested more in Giacomo's reasons.
> I'm an XEmacs user since Lucid was in business.
> Clearly XEmacs is in a development lull so I've been
> trying Emacs the last few years.
[...]
> Emacs is getting more development.
This more or less seems like "more development" is the key here. But
development is not a direct value in itself. Values would be
[ ] the bugs annoying me tend to get fixed faster
[ ] the current feature set is more useful for me
Depending on the amount and direction of catching up, a momentary
development lull or spike need not be decisive.
> Emacs is faster.
Which is a bit surprising, given all the work that went into XEmacs Lisp
improvements. Startup time may be different due to better dumping
choices, though.
> Things I miss:
>
> XEmacs bar-cursor
Hm?
M-x customize-variable RET cursor-type RET
does not offer what you are looking for?
I sometimes have the impression that the great editor wars are lost and
won on details that developers would not have a chance to guess, not
necessarily even true details, but rather preconceptions.
--
David Kastrup
Giacomo Boffi
> Giacomo Boffi <giacom...@polimi.it> writes:
>
>> rene <jl...@yahoo.com> writes:
>>
>>> On 4 ao�t, 12:23, Giacomo Boffi <giacomo.bo...@polimi.it> wrote:
>>>> does SXemacs have support for antialiased fonts?
>>>
>>> Have a try with Gnu Emacs 23. It's pretty nice
>>
>> I would prefer not to.
>
> Obviously, you want more letters than "XEmacs", not fewer ones, if you
> ask about SXEmacs.
>
> Since it is pretty clear that you know what you are looking for, just
> for my personal nosiness:
>
> [x] Used to XEmacs
> [ ] My favorite package runs best (or only) there
my fav is auctex+preview, and VM too; VM used to be best in XEmacs,
but Kyle is no more the maintainer
> [ ] Don't (think I'd) get along with Emacs developers
more exactly, i have grown to post bug reports to xemacs-beta while
i'd be just a little intimidated dealing with emacs-bug: not enough to
tick the box
> [x] Don't like the GUI of Emacs
> [x] Emacs is lacking functionality
last two x's are mostly due to no background pixmaps in Emacs
> [ ] Emacs is uncool/gives me the creeps
> [ ] Other: _____
btw, i compiled a late prerelease 23.1 and i use it now and then, even
if "I would prefer not to.". Emacs is coming.
Ciao David,
g
--
"It will be rain tonight."
"Let it come down."
Giacomo Boffi
>> Emacs is faster.
>
> Which is a bit surprising, given all the work that went into XEmacs Lisp
> improvements. Startup time may be different due to better dumping
> choices, though.
,----
| aiuole/../tests Fri Sep 18 19:10:21: PYMACS_EMACS=xemacs python ./pytest 2>/dev/null | grep Summary
| Summary: 280 good tests in 3.36 seconds.
| aiuole/../tests Fri Sep 18 19:10:45: PYMACS_EMACS=emacs python ./pytest 2>/dev/null | grep Summary
| Summary: 280 good tests in 2.81 seconds.
| aiuole/../tests Fri Sep 18 19:11:07: which emacs
| /usr/local/bin/emacs
| aiuole/../tests Fri Sep 18 19:11:16: /usr/local/bin/emacs -version
| GNU Emacs 23.0.94.1
| Copyright (C) 2009 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
| GNU Emacs comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY.
| You may redistribute copies of Emacs
| under the terms of the GNU General Public License.
| For more information about these matters, see the file named COPYING.
| aiuole/../tests Fri Sep 18 19:11:29:
`----
and if you use a 21.5 xemacs with vanilla configuration, xemacs is
2-3x slower due to debugging code and no aggressive optimization
to repeat myself, Emacs is coming.
des...@verizon.net
> des...@verizon.net writes:
>
>> David Kastrup <d...@gnu.org> writes:
>>>
>> Things I miss:
>>
>> XEmacs bar-cursor
>
> Hm?
>
> M-x customize-variable RET cursor-type RET
>
> does not offer what you are looking for?
Not present in the version I'm using (22.3.1).
Guess I have a reason to upgrade...
> I sometimes have the impression that the great editor wars are lost and
> won on details that developers would not have a chance to guess, not
> necessarily even true details, but rather preconceptions.
Absolutely.
Especially so in the Emacs variants. Who really knows everything Emacs
can do?
des...@verizon.net
> des...@verizon.net writes:
>
>> David Kastrup <d...@gnu.org> writes:
>> Emacs is faster.
>
> Which is a bit surprising, given all the work that went into XEmacs Lisp
> improvements. Startup time may be different due to better dumping
> choices, though.
Emacs seems snappier overall.
Other Emacs issues:
XEmacs handles remote frames dying better than
Emacs. I've had Emacs remote frames open on my work system and
when I get to work, Emacs is frozen. I looked it up and it's a known
bug with no solution in sight.
Doesn't appear to be any way to do the equivalent of
gnuclient -nw.
Of course this is all with 22.3.1.
David Kastrup
> David Kastrup <d...@gnu.org> writes:
>
>> des...@verizon.net writes:
>>
>>> David Kastrup <d...@gnu.org> writes:
>>>>
>>> Things I miss:
>>>
>>> XEmacs bar-cursor
>>
>> Hm?
>>
>> M-x customize-variable RET cursor-type RET
>>
>> does not offer what you are looking for?
>
> Not present in the version I'm using (22.3.1).
> Guess I have a reason to upgrade...
I am surprised: I thought I had played around with that long ago,
certainly before 23.1.
I find that variable and frame parameter are in Emacs 21, and
** Cursor display changes:
*** Emacs can produce an underscore-like (horizontal bar) cursor.
The underscore cursor is set by putting `(cursor-type . hbar)' in
default-frame-alist. It supports variable heights, like the `bar'
cursor does.
is in Emacs 22, judging from the NEWS files.
So either something is rotten with the implementation, or there is
something strange going on.
>> I sometimes have the impression that the great editor wars are lost
>> and won on details that developers would not have a chance to guess,
>> not necessarily even true details, but rather preconceptions.
>
> Absolutely.
>
> Especially so in the Emacs variants. Who really knows everything
> Emacs can do?
Most particularly about both Emacs and XEmacs...
--
David Kastrup
David Kastrup
23.1 has "multi-tty" code, Emacs can run as a daemon. The situation
should be different to what you are used to. Whether better or worse,
may be another question.
I'll append the respective blurb from the NEWS file. It would be
interesting to hear about a subjective impression from people who are
used to that sort of functionality from some well-matured code (it's
been in XEmacs like 15 years or so, it feels to me).
* Changes in Emacs 23.1
** Improved X Window System support
*** Emacs now supports using both X displays and ttys in one session.
With an Emacs server active (M-x server-start), `emacsclient -t'
creates a tty frame connected to the running emacs server. You can
use any number of different ttys. `emacsclient -c' creates a new X11
frame on the current $DISPLAY (or a tty frame if $DISPLAY is not set).
There may be problems if a display exits unexpectedly and Emacs is compiled
with Gtk+, see etc/PROBLEMS.
You can test for the presence of this feature in your Lisp code by
testing for the `multi-tty' feature.
*** Emacs starts in the background, as a daemon, when given the
--daemon command line argument. It disconnects from the terminal and
starts the server. Clients can connect and create graphical or
terminal frames using emacsclient.
**** emacsclient starts emacs in daemon mode and connects to it when
--alternate-editor="" is used (or when the evironment variable
ALTERNATE_EDITOR is set to "") and emacsclient cannot connect to an
emacs server.
*** The new command close-display-connection closes a connection to a
remote display. There are some bugs for Gtk+. See etc/PROBLEMS.
*** Emacs now supports the XEmbed specification.
You can embed Emacs in another application on X11. The new command line
option --parent-id is used to pass the parent window id to Emacs. See
http://standards.freedesktop.org/xembed-spec/xembed-spec-latest.html
for details about XEmbed.
--
David Kastrup
Reiner Steib
> David Kastrup <d...@gnu.org> writes:
>> des...@verizon.net writes:
>>> Things I miss:
>>>
>>> XEmacs bar-cursor
>>
>> Hm?
>>
>> M-x customize-variable RET cursor-type RET
>>
>> does not offer what you are looking for?
>
> Not present in the version I'm using (22.3.1).
> Guess I have a reason to upgrade...
`cursor-type' is not customizable (at least not in Emacs 22 and 23.1),
try (setq cursor-type 'bar) instead.
,----[ <f1> v cursor-type RET ]
| cursor-type is a variable defined in `src/buffer.c'.
| Its value is t
|
| Automatically becomes buffer-local when set in any fashion.
|
|
| Documentation:
| Cursor to use when this buffer is in the selected window.
| Values are interpreted as follows:
|
| t use the cursor specified for the frame
| nil don't display a cursor
| box display a filled box cursor
| hollow display a hollow box cursor
| bar display a vertical bar cursor with default width
| (bar . WIDTH) display a vertical bar cursor with width WIDTH
| hbar display a horizontal bar cursor with default height
| (hbar . HEIGHT) display a horizontal bar cursor with height HEIGHT
| ANYTHING ELSE display a hollow box cursor
|
| When the buffer is displayed in a nonselected window,
| this variable has no effect; the cursor appears as a hollow box.
`----
Bye, Reiner.
--
,,,
(o o)
---ooO-(_)-Ooo--- | PGP key available | http://rsteib.home.pages.de/
des...@verizon.net
> On Fri, Sep 18 2009, des...@verizon.net wrote:
>
>> David Kastrup <d...@gnu.org> writes:
>>> des...@verizon.net writes:
>>>> Things I miss:
>>>>
>>>> XEmacs bar-cursor
>>>
>>> Hm?
>>>
>>> M-x customize-variable RET cursor-type RET
>>>
>>> does not offer what you are looking for?
>>
>> Not present in the version I'm using (22.3.1).
>> Guess I have a reason to upgrade...
>
> `cursor-type' is not customizable (at least not in Emacs 22 and 23.1),
> try (setq cursor-type 'bar) instead.
I think I'm getting closer.
Setting cursor-type is buffer local, so it changes
but only for the current buffer...
This one:
(add-to-list 'default-frame-alist '(cursor-type . bar))
...Works!
Yay! Thanks guys...
David Kastrup
> On Fri, Sep 18 2009, des...@verizon.net wrote:
>
>> David Kastrup <d...@gnu.org> writes:
>>> des...@verizon.net writes:
>>>> Things I miss:
>>>>
>>>> XEmacs bar-cursor
>>>
>>> Hm?
>>>
>>> M-x customize-variable RET cursor-type RET
>>>
>>> does not offer what you are looking for?
>>
>> Not present in the version I'm using (22.3.1).
>> Guess I have a reason to upgrade...
>
> `cursor-type' is not customizable (at least not in Emacs 22 and 23.1),
> try (setq cursor-type 'bar) instead.
Oh. Right. Weird.
--
David Kastrup
David Kastrup
> Reiner Steib <reinerstei...@imap.cc> writes:
>
>> On Fri, Sep 18 2009, des...@verizon.net wrote:
>>
>>> David Kastrup <d...@gnu.org> writes:
>>>> des...@verizon.net writes:
>>>>> Things I miss:
>>>>>
>>>>> XEmacs bar-cursor
>>>>
>>>> Hm?
>>>>
>>>> M-x customize-variable RET cursor-type RET
>>>>
>>>> does not offer what you are looking for?
>>>
>>> Not present in the version I'm using (22.3.1).
>>> Guess I have a reason to upgrade...
>>
>> `cursor-type' is not customizable (at least not in Emacs 22 and 23.1),
>> try (setq cursor-type 'bar) instead.
>
> I think I'm getting closer.
> Setting cursor-type is buffer local, so it changes
> but only for the current buffer...
(setq-default cursor-type 'bar) maybe?
> This one:
>
> (add-to-list 'default-frame-alist '(cursor-type . bar))
>
> ...Works!
>
> Yay! Thanks guys...
Hm. This does not look all too user-friendly. And it is not clear to
me why this is not available via custom.
Thanks for the feedback.
--
David Kastrup
des...@verizon.net
For what it's worth, in XEmacs, in the menus, there is
Options->Display->
Blinking Cursor
Block Cursor
Bar 1 pixel
Bar 2 pixels
Giacomo Boffi
>> Doesn't appear to be any way to do the equivalent of
>> gnuclient -nw.
>
> 23.1 has "multi-tty" code, Emacs can run as a daemon. The situation
> should be different to what you are used to. Whether better or worse,
> may be another question.
>
> I'll append the respective blurb from the NEWS file. It would be
> interesting to hear about a subjective impression from people who are
> used to that sort of functionality from some well-matured code (it's
> been in XEmacs like 15 years or so, it feels to me).
i haven't tested emacs 23 with remote connections, but i have to say
that the 15 years old "gnuclient -nw" still does a mess[*] when an
application (gnus, VM to name two) tries to change the window
configuration inside the current frame --- there is more than a bug
report on this in the xemacs-beta archives
g
[*] a stinky mess
--
giampippetto, coso, come si chiama? ah si` "MMAX" ha scritto:
> Tra il trascendente e l'interpretazione prevalente del dato come
> assioma ne passa...
Michael Sperber
Giacomo Boffi <giacom...@polimi.it> writes:
> i haven't tested emacs 23 with remote connections, but i have to say
> that the 15 years old "gnuclient -nw" still does a mess[*] when an
> application (gnus, VM to name two) tries to change the window
> configuration inside the current frame --- there is more than a bug
> report on this in the xemacs-beta archives
> g
> [*] a stinky mess
I'm not aware of any extant ones. Care to elaborate?
--
Cheers =8-} Mike
Friede, V�lkerverst�ndigung und �berhaupt blabla
Giacomo Boffi
> Giacomo Boffi <giacom...@polimi.it> writes:
>
>> "gnuclient -nw" still does a mess when an application (gnus, VM to
>> name two) tries to change the window configuration inside the
>> current frame --- there is more than a bug report on this in the
>> xemacs-beta archives
>
> I'm not aware of any extant ones.
possibly they were decreed as resolved
> Care to elaborate?
http://www.stru.polimi.it/people/boffi/bacheca/sperber.ogv.bz2
it's a screen capture, isn't a movie's worth a million words? (i've
been able to playback it with mplayer)
MOVIE SYNOPSIS
i start with a 90x34 xterm window, after issuing the vm command the
window size that xemacs assumes changes two times, first immediately
and then when the INBOX is displayed (the width is 80 chars in both
cases, the height is reduced from the start to the first step, and
further reduced in the second step); also, please note that changing
the window size (this action is not clearly represented in the screen
capture) forces xemacs to fall back in a sane state
gnus has similar, lesser problems
(insert (emacs-version))
XEmacs 21.5 (beta29) "garbanzo" a46d7513a364 [Lucid] (i686-pc-linux,
Mule) of Tue Oct 20 2009 on aiuole
--
la lenza penzola
-- PMF, in IHC