GTE Cellular Tries to Hold Dead Man to Contract
Anthony Argyriou
A man had a cell-phone from GTE. He dies. His sister tries to cancel
the contract. She is told by customer service rep _and_ cs manager
that she must pay the $108 early termination fee. She tells them she
will call consumer reporter at TV station, they say "go right ahead".
She calls (channel 7's) consumer reporter, and they call GTE. Suddenly
everything is different. She even gets a letter from the president of
the company apologizing, and saying that company policy is to allow
transferring the service to a survivor, or termination of the service
without penalty. She's still not satisfied, and will tell people to
not use GTE if asked.
Comment: if this happened to me, I'd ask why the manager responsible
is still employed, and demand that he be fired.
Anthony Argyriou
[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: I believe that under the law, when some
person dies, their debts or contractual obligations are dismissed at
the same time. I am not certain if the executor of a deceased person's
'estate' -- if one is appointed -- is under any obligation to pay any
debts outstanding. In other words, I owe you one hundred dollars; I
die before the debt has been paid; you are out of luck since there is
no longer any debt due. If surviving persons benefit from the estate
of the deceased, maybe that is different. i.e. I die, but you continue
to live in a house which was mortgaged in my name alone, or continue
to use an automobile that I was paying for at the time of my death. I
think creditors are entitled to the return of any merchandise which
was unpaid for, especially if the contract states that they retain
full ownership until it is paid completely paid for. If an attorney
would like to comment, I'd appreciate an opportunity to print his/her
remarks on this.
I suppose the cellular phone company could have legally requested that
the telephone they provided as an inducement to receive a signed
contract be returned to them, since the contract was not going to be
honored for its full term. They would have been within their rights to
demand some proof of death; i.e. the usual certificate, to justify
their write-off of any balance due for service rendered to date or any
remaining obligation under the contract.
Far, far, far too many people these days die with little more than
their personal possessions, so limited in value that probate is not
even feasable; an 'estate' is essentially non-existent. Each year in
Chicago, about 300-400 persons die who fall into the 'bag lady' or
homeless person category. Some have identification which shows their
name and perhaps a relative or friend to be notified; the majority do
not have that much. Someone discovers them, the police are called, the
police require an EMT or other medical person to come to the scene
to pronounce, then the police put the remains in the back of the
wagon and drive off with the person. A joke goes like this: why do
wagon men (police officers who drive the paddy wagon around all day)
always smoke cigars? The answer is the cigar smoke neutralizes the
stench from the back part of the wagon.
Off they go to the center for forensic medicine -- what in other
times we called the county morgue -- where they are probed and
examined in the hopes of finding some way to identify them. If they
are identified, fine, if not that's okay also. An attorney is
appointed to represent them and if no one has claimed the remains
within 30-45 days off they go to Homewood, Illinois at Homewood
Memorial Gardens where a section of the cemetery has been set aside
for them in a mass grave with all the cheap little caskets lined
up in a row, a dozen or so at a time. The attorney goes out to
observe the process, along with a rabbi, a priest and some other
minister or church person.
Then once a year, usually in the summer, the 300-400 from the year
before are memorialized in a ceremony at the Chicago Temple Building
conducted by the same three or four people who attended their burial.
The public is invited. The three or four people each make some very
generic remarks suitable for the occasion (I mean, how do you conduct
a funeral or memorial service for a person you know little or nothing
about?) and a reading of the names or identifying characteristics
begins. The ones who's names are known are read first, then the ones
whose names are not known are memorialized stating what is known about
them; i.e. 'an unidentified black female, age apparently in early
twenties, found at (address)'; 'an unidentified white male, age appar-
ently late sixties, with a tatoo on his right arm, found at (address)';
and they just continue their recitation like this for 150-200 unknown
people each year; the ones without names.
The ones that are really difficult to listen to are the ones that go
like this: 'unidentified black male infant, age less than one day old,
found in trash dumpster at (address)'; and there will always be five
or six like that. And the reading of the names or descriptions of the
unidentified persons concludes with the statement that 'although they
are unknown to us and unclaimed by any person, they are known by God
who now claims each of them and will care for them.' The memorial
service ends and everyone goes home in sort of a blue funk, feeling
bummed out and wondering how things have gotten quite to the point
they are in our society that this sort of event has to go on every
year. They are thinking of doing it twice a year so that the reading
of names will not take as long. PAT]
John R. Levine
> person dies, their debts or contractual obligations are dismissed at
> the same time. I am not certain if the executor of a deceased person's
> 'estate' -- if one is appointed -- is under any obligation to pay any
> debts outstanding.
Of course the estate has to pay the debts. Otherwise banks wouldn't
give mortagages to anyone over the age of 19.
What I do think is the case is that if the assets of the estate are
insufficient to pay the debts, then the creditors are out of luck and
can't come after the survivors for the rest.
I do agree that this particular story is pretty stupid, even for our
pals at the Great Telephone Experiment.
John R. Levine, IECC, POB 727, Trumansburg NY 14886 +1 607 387 6869
jo...@iecc.com, Village Trustee and Sewer Commissioner, http://iecc.com/johnl,
Member, Provisional board, Coalition Against Unsolicited Commercial E-mail
Robert Bonomi
Do *NOT* rely on PAT for legal advice.
Facts:
_Most_ time-payment contracts have a clause in them that makes
the *ENTIRE* amount "immediately due and pauable" upon the death
of the person.
*ALL* contracts, unless they have _specific_ language in them to the
contrary, survive the death of one of the signatory parties.
Upon a death, the liability for fulfilling the contract reverts to the
*estate* of the person, to be settled out of that person's assets.
If there aren't enough assets to settle all the debts, things are handled
in what is essentially a bankruptcy liquidation.
Before a claim, of any sort, can be paid from the estate assets, there
must be verifiable documentation of the debt. A 'verbal only' loan --
the "Hey Jim, can I borrow $20 till payday", or similiar, *is* out-of-
luck.
Barring 'special circumstances' -- things like significant procedural
errors on the part of the executor -- the executor is not personally
liable for any debts of the deceased.
Debts _do_not_ 'transfer' to the beneficiaries, *unless*they*
*voluntarily*accept*them*.
The _primary_ job of the executor is to see that all the 'claims'
against the deceased -- which are now claims against the *estate* --
are settled; such that the 'free and clear' assets can be distributed
to the beneficiaries, as declared in the will, or lacking that, as
specified by statute. The actual 'distribution' is a relatively
trivial matter -- getting everything identified, and cleared up so
that the distribution _can_ be made is the big time-consumer.
This entire matter was just (within approximately the last 30 days)
discussed in detail in 'misc.legal.moderated'. It should be _trivial_
to find all the special circumstances stuff, etc. on somewhere like
Deja News.
The cell-phone company _was_ on firm -legal- ground with their first
attitude. They, =almost=invariably=, 'voluntarily' release the (now
deceased) user from the contract as a matter of public relations policy,
there's a budget item for 'good will'.
For _real_ grins (not!), try dealing with a long-term "health club"
contract, or (even worse) an extended lessons course from a 'martial
arts' training studio. Many, albeit _not_ all, of these kinds of
places make the *bulk* of their revenues from folks who sign up for
services and do _not_ use them. They're usually in small-claims court
*every*day*, with a bunch of 'breached' contracts that they're seeking
court-ordered enforcement of payment on. I sat through about 50 of these
proceedings one day (in virtually _no_ case did the defendant even appear),
waiting for a case, where I was a witness, to be called.
Death does -not- slow them down, _at_all_.
PAT's (mis-i)information, below, is _flat-out_ wrong. as any competent
legal counsel will tell anyone.
[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: Thank you for writing. I *did* ask for
someone with knowledge on the topic to respond didn't I ... and I am
glad you did. PAT]
Fred Atkinson
This doesn't surprise me at all.
There are so many people who look to take advantage of
different folk's death. When they see the obituaries, a number of
them send bills for goods and services that were never provided or
performed. In fact, they may have never done business with the
deceased. So, this person's son or daughter steps in to close out the
bills. How does he or she know that the bill is a hoax? The only
person that might have known and could have flagged it is deceased.
I am 'Fred W. Atkinson, III'. When my grandfather, 'Fred W.
Atkinson, Sr.' passed away, he had been living in my parents home
where the telephone was listed as 'Fred W. Atkinson (without the
Jr. on the listing). After we'd returned from the funeral, my dad
(Fred, Jr.) was sitting in the living room and I was in the back of
the house. My aunt, who was with us for the funeral, came inside and
answered the telephone.
The operator informed her that 'Fred Atkinson' was at a
payphone and was trying to charge a long distance call to this number.
The operator wanted to know if she'd accept the charges. Not knowing
I was in the back room, she assumed it was me and accepted. Five
minutes later I walked into the living room and my aunt shrieked in
surprise. That's when she told me this story. As I listened to her,
the telephone rang again. This time, *I* answered it. The operator
said that 'Fred Atkinson' was at a payphone and was trying to charge a
long distance call to this number. She wanted to know if we'd accept.
I told the operator that we had buried 'Fred Atkinson, Sr.'
this morning, that I had my eyes focused on 'Fred Atkinson, Jr.' and
since I was 'Fred Atkinson, III' and there were no more at this
address, I suspected that whomever was making that call was committing
fraud. She thanked me and hung up.
After I flew back home, my mother said she got several more of
these types of calls. No doubt this person or these persons saw the
obituary, looked up 'Fred Atkinson' in the telephone book, and tried
to charge long distance calls to that number.
So, watch it when you have a death in the family. There are
some very unsavory types that would love to take advantage of it.
And, like the slammers and crammers, they come up with some very
resourceful ways of doing it. They figure that the family is too
grief stricken to catch it or even care.
Fred
[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: The most crummy bunch of losers in the
'sell to a dead person' con-game was the company which operated for
more than twenty years starting sometime in the 1930's until they were
put out of business in the late 1950's. By subscribing to several
hundred medium and small town newspapers which were delivered to them
each day, they were able to read the obituary column in each of the
papers and pull their scam. Let's say John Smith died on Monday and
his obituary was in the paper on Tuesday. They'd get the paper by
Wednesday and prepare their product for shipment the same day. Their
product? A very large, ornate 'family Bible' with the deceased's name
in gold engraving on the front imitation leather cover. This was the
style which was very popular for a century or more in the USA, with
a large section in the center colorfully illustrated with maps and
pictures of biblical persons -- as if anyone had the slightest idea
what any of them looked like, but don't let a few little facts get in
the way -- and most important, a section for recording a 'family tree'
and listing the births and deaths of family members. Simulated gold
edges on the paper, etc.
Please recall that during about the first century of our government,
until the late 1800's, birth and death records were not standardized,
nor even required in many states. In order to 'prove' someone's age
or the date of their marriage it was quite common to bring out the
family Bible and review the records therein. Such a 'bible record'
was considered acceptable proof by the US government in those days.
So the company would send out this very lovely, very nicely boxed
family Bible, engraved with the deceased's name **and mail it to the
deceased** knowing the family would see it come in the mail a few
days later, while still in a time of grief for the family, and would
open the package which arrived addressed to dear old grandpa. Inside
an invoice was enclosed with a 'personally written note' which said
something like this,
"Dear Mr. Smith, thank you for your order. Your
Bible is enclosed, and we know you and your family will spend many
treasured hours reading together from God's Word. Don't forget to
begin now recording the vital details of your family's life on Earth
using the family tree forms enclosed in the center. Won't this be
a wonderful surprise when you present it to your family? As you
requested, we've said nothing to anyone about your purchase, so you
can be assured no one in your family knows what you have done. Our
invoice for *twenty dollars* [my emphasis, 1940-50's money] is en-
closed, won't you please honor it promptly, that we might continue
to share the Word of God with others who seek it. Your friends at
the Bible Publishing Society."
Well! What do you suppose the family did? Of course they *assumed*
that the old man had ordered it before he died, and not wanting to
disgrace his memory or make his final purchase on credit turn him
into a deadbeat by stiffing the company -- dead and stiff alright --
they would send in the money requested to the company. They'd see it
engraved with his name and realize that returning it would be 'an
inconvenience for the company' and wanting to do the 'right thing'
they paid.
One woman who was a witness at a hearing convened by a government
agency (not the Federal Trade Commission, but some predecessor of that
agency, I think) told the investigators that 'when I wrote and told
the company I could not afford to pay it all at once, and offered to
return the Bible to them, they wrote me back and told me very nicely
it would be okay to pay in four month installments of five dollars
each, and that they would not charge us any interest as long as our
payment arrived on time each month. I sent them a money order on the
first of each month.'
The scam finally unraveled after years of successful operation when
the 'Bible Publishing Society' (actually just a man and his wife
who bought the Bibles for a couple dollars each and stamped them
up with an engraving tool) made the mistake of sending out an 'order'
to the family of some drunken, hell-raising old fool, himself a con-
artist -- albiet now deceased -- who they knew perfectly well would
never have made such a 'purchase', and went to the postal inspectors.
The government investigators found that about thirty thousand families
had been decieved in this way over approximatly twenty years, so
careful were the man and his wife in selecting the 'right sounding
names' (we don't want to send this to Jews) and 'right looking'
obituaries (was he a church member, active in his community, etc).
They also concentrated on rural, small town communities in the south
and midwestern states, avoiding any place where they suspected the
citizens would likely be more educated. They were caught when a delibe-
ratly bogus obituary of a non-existent person of upstanding character
and Christian conviction was placed in a newspaper and the merchandise
arrived a few days later.
Senator Everett Dirkeson of Illinois upon announcing something about
the results of the investigation said 'The more I followed the
testimony given by people who were victimized by the company, the
more my stomach was churning. I think I shall go be sick now ...'
He added a very witty postscript to it all saying, "I suppose this
will risk me being in violation of the constitutionally mandated
requirement for separation of church and state, and that the
government may not support any establishment of one religion, ahead of
another, however I will say it anyway. There is a special place in Hell
already reserved for those two crooks." PAT]
Mike Fox
> For _real_ grins (not!), try dealing with a long-term "health club"
> contract, or (even worse) an extended lessons course from a 'martial
> arts' training studio. Many, albeit _not_ all, of these kinds of
> places make the *bulk* of their revenues from folks who sign up for
> services and do _not_ use them. They're usually in small-claims court
> *every*day*, with a bunch of 'breached' contracts that they're seeking
> court-ordered enforcement of payment on. I sat through about 50 of these
> proceedings one day (in virtually _no_ case did the defendant even appear),
> waiting for a case, where I was a witness, to be called.
> Death does -not- slow them down, _at_all_.
That's surprising to me, because every health-club type contract I've
ever seen has an escape clause if the customer becomes disabled and is
medically unable to continue with the program. I think death would
qualify.
Mike
"We're not against ideas. We're against people spreading them."
(General Augusto Pinochet of Chile)