Western Union's satellite loss [Telecom]
hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com
communication satellites with the Challenger and lost it. Apparently
the insurance company wouldn't pay so WU lost about $100 million, and
they were tight on money.
If anyone knows more, could they share it with us?
As mentioned in past discussions, it appeared that Western Union was
doing all the right things in the 1960-1970s to position itself to be
a high speed data communications provider. In 1967 WU published a
report that accurately foresaw the _functionaltiy_ of today's Internet
(if not necessarily the topology).
At this point in my reading I now have the impression (subject to
change!) that WU failed because:
1) The loss of the satellite cost them critical cash and lost
revenues.
2) WU's pioneer e-mail service, EasyLink, wasn't doing well. I don't
know if it didn't have a big enough user base or it cost too much
to run or they ran it lousy. But apparently WU lost big money on
it when they hoped it would be the wave of the future.
3) MCI forced AT&T to increase the favorable rates it gave WU. While
WU had much of its own lines, it still leased AT&T lines. In
addition, companies were moving out of cities and old buildings
where WU had its own wires (some buildings were wired to WU
directly) to the suburbs where WU had no presence.
4) I don't know how well WU marketed its modern services. Despite
adding many computer and communication specialists, the company
'atmosphere' may have remained old fashioned.
5) Telex was very important in 1980 but soon lost lustre as companies
got their own inexpensive fax machines and personal computers.
Steve Stone
> I understand that Western Union was launching one of its Westar
> communication satellites with the Challenger and lost it. Apparently
> the insurance company wouldn't pay so WU lost about $100 million, and
> they were tight on money.
>
> If anyone knows more, could they share it with us?
>
The wiki entry says Loyds of London would not pay for the satellite loss
because it was NOT an act of God.
hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com
> The wiki entry says Loyds of London would not pay for the satellite loss
> because it was NOT an act of God.
I saw that and was quite surprised. At first I thought LofL should've
paid but then I realized it was a technical problem, not something
like a hurricane, earthquake, lightning, etc.
Of course, the question then becomes why they didn't insure themselves
against a technical malfunction, provided such insurance was
available. Maybe it was seen as too high a risk. From time to time
launches do fail.
As an aside, WU leased out channels on a satellite that it didn't have
need for, and the income nearly paid for the satellite, yet they still
had their channels to use. I am curious as to how much of their
microwave network they used in the 1980s, how much of their own pole
lines were still in use, and how much they had to lease from AT&T.
tlvp
> ... [snip] ...
>
> 5) Telex was very important in 1980 but soon lost lustre as companies
> got their own inexpensive fax machines and personal computers.
Telex was important enough to me throughout the '80s, at least
for quick communications across multiple time zones into eastern
europe (Bulgarian universities, Polish travel agents), that its
availability, through bidirectional email-telex gateways made
available by MCI Mail and ATT Mail was one of the big reasons
I retained both those services as long as I did in those days.
While other universities had adopted email by then, it wasn't 'til
quite late in the '80s that one Bulgarian university finally got
a (flaky) Bitnet connection for email, and Polish travel agencies
-- at least the one Warsaw WagonsLits Cook place I had to deal with --
never did get email before they finally went under sometime in the '90s.
These days, of course, some 20 years later, they all have both fax
and email (though they tend to think it important to save electricity
by turning their fax machines off while the shop is closed overnight).
Cheers, -- tlvp
--
Avant de repondre, jeter la poubelle, SVP
Dave Garland
> 5) Telex was very important in 1980 but soon lost lustre as companies
> got their own inexpensive fax machines and personal computers.
Telex remained important throughout the 1980s for communicating to the
undeveloped world (Africa, Central America). Even into the early
1990s it could be difficult to fax even a place as developed as
Turkey, because their phone systems were so bad. I still remember the
poor guy in Turkey we kept waking up, because the fax number for the
consultant we were dealing with kept ringing to this guy's home phone.
To this day the only words of Turkish I know are "'Allo? 'Allo?"
Dave
Neal McLain
> I am curious as to how much of their microwave network
> they used in the 1980s, how much of their own pole lines
> were still in use, and how much they had to lease from
> AT&T.
Now that's a fascinating question. In my experience, I'd say that WU
owned zero poles, but I suppose there's an exception somewhere.
However, WU did own conduit-and-manhole structures as late as 1986.
In my entire career in the cable TV industry (1976-2000), I never
encountered a single utility pole owned by Western Union. In fact,
before I read your question, it hadn't occurred to me that WE might
still own any poles.
Cable TV companies typically lease pole-attachment rights from other
pole owners. Although most poles are owned by electric power or
telephone companies, I've written permit applications for poles owned
by municipal governments, county governments, state governments, the
federal government, private landowners, educational institutions,
other cable TV companies, and railroads.
But I never encountered a pole owned by WU.
Neal McLain
hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com
> �> I am curious as to how much of their microwave network
> �> they used in the 1980s, how much of their own pole lines
> �> were still in use, and how much they had to lease from
> �> AT&T.
>
> Now that's a fascinating question. �In my experience, I'd say that WU
> owned zero poles, but I suppose there's an exception somewhere.
> However, WU did own conduit-and-manhole structures as late as 1986.
WU had to transmit data from its microwave terminals to its end users
as well as service locations not connected by microwave. According to
a Sept 1980 NYT article, WU paid AT&T $106 million for leased lines in
1979, but if it didn't own its own network it would have to spend
another $30 million. "The WU network reaches 35 major cities across
the US and offers direct access and extension channels to most other
areas of the nation". The article noted WU's unfunded pension
liability was a concern. Later articles noted the high number of
pensioners relative to the number of employees.
> In my entire career in the cable TV industry (1976-2000), I never
> encountered a single utility pole owned by Western Union. In fact,
> before I read your question, it hadn't occurred to me that WE might
> still own any poles.
I wonder when they discontinued their pole lines. In 1975 AT&T still
used some pole lines for toll service, though almost everything was on
microwave or coax by that point.
Perhaps WU's lines were more concentrated on railroads.
As late as 1965 WU still had some Morse lines in service, which,
understandably, they didn't like to brag about.
> Cable TV companies typically lease pole-attachment rights from other
> pole owners. �Although most poles are owned by electric power or
> telephone companies, I've written permit applications for poles owned
> by municipal governments, county governments, state governments, the
> federal government, private landowners, educational institutions,
> other cable TV companies, and railroads.
Did you ever utilize poles owned by street railroads or electric
railroads? Street railroad power is only 600 V, but many electrified
railroads were 11,000 V.
***** Moderator's Note *****
I'm curious which location(s) still had Morse circuits in operation in
1965: I'm a member of the Morse Telegraph Club, and the history of
Morse always interests me.
Bill Horne
Moderator
Jim Haynes
> hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:
>
> In my entire career in the cable TV industry (1976-2000), I never
> encountered a single utility pole owned by Western Union. In fact,
> before I read your question, it hadn't occurred to me that WE might
> still own any poles.
>
been where you would have encountered them.
hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com
>
> I'm curious which location(s) still had Morse circuits in operation in
> 1965: I'm a member of the Morse Telegraph Club, and the history of
> Morse always interests me.
In the WU newsletters they mentioned lines out in the west in service
circa 1960. (I thought I submitted that as a post here).
The 1965 reference was a side mention of operator's duties in NYC.
That is, apparently in the main buliding in New York they still had a
Morse station in 1965. I don't know what it connected to. I got the
impression from context that it was not frequently used.
In its heydey, Western Union switched trunk circuits around to
accomodate traffic flow. For example, a political convention or
presidential visit required extra circuits for media staff to use. I
suspect the 1965 Morse circuit was an older backup circuit. The 1960
circuits out west appeared to regular trunks.
As Mr. Haynes mentions, perhaps this line served railroad needs.
Al Gillis
>
> I'm curious which location(s) still had Morse circuits in operation in
> 1965: I'm a member of the Morse Telegraph Club, and the history of
> Morse always interests me.
>
> Bill Horne
> Moderator
>
>
At the Museum of Communications in Seattle, Washington, their exhibit on
toll facilities includes information related to using Morse between toll
testboards in the Bell System in days before (probably) the early 1960s or
so. One of the docents there (a former toll testboardman) is still proud of
his ability to send and receive at a fairly good rate! It's a great museum,
incidentally, and merits a visit if you're in Seattle. And it's just down
the road from the Boeing Museum of Flight, another excellent museum!
benfmo
> > ***** Moderator's Note *****
>
> > I'm curious which location(s) still had Morse circuits in operation in
> > 1965: I'm a member of the Morse Telegraph Club, and the history of
> > Morse always interests me.
>
> In the WU newsletters they mentioned lines out in the west in service
> circa 1960. (I thought I submitted that as a post here).
>
> The 1965 reference was a side mention of operator's duties in NYC.
> That is, apparently in the main buliding in New York they still had a
> Morse station in 1965. I don't know what it connected to. I got the
> impression from context that it was not frequently used.
>
> accomodate traffic flow. For example, a political convention or
> presidential visit required extra circuits for media staff to use. I
> suspect the 1965 Morse circuit was an older backup circuit. The 1960
> circuits out west appeared to regular trunks.
>
> As Mr. Haynes mentions, perhaps this line served railroad needs.
I worked for WU 30 years in Kansas City. I removed the last morse
station in 1968.