History -- increase in pay phone from 5c to 10c? [telecom]
hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com
cents to 10 cents in New York City. In those years many classic
nickel products, such as a cup of coffee or a subway ride, already
jumped from a nickel to a dime. (After WW II there was substantial
inflation).
I was wondering if this increased was applied to the entire Bell
System all at roughly the same time, or was gradually phased in in
different places at different places. (Obviously some phase-in time
was required in order to convert the pay phones to count up two
nickels or one dime.)
Any info on pay phones of that era would be appreciated.
Thanks!
[public replies please]
_
I remember knowing where the only 5 cent phone in my city was in 1967.
Julian Thomas
05/06/08
at 10:20 AM, hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com typed:
>I was wondering if this increased was applied to the entire Bell System
>all at roughly the same time, or was gradually phased in in different
>places at different places. (Obviously some phase-in time was required
>in order to convert the pay phones to count up two nickels or one
>dime.)
Definitely different places at different times. It had to go through the
regulatory agency in each state. Even within a city, phones were
converted whenever the lineman got to them.
I've seen the same thing in London; one place calls were 3d; another two
stops on the underground and they were 4d.
--
Julian Thomas: j...@jt-mj.net http://jt-mj.net
In the beautiful Finger Lakes Wine Country of New York State!
-- --
Windows: From the people who brought you EDLIN!
***** Moderator's Note *****
Please tell us what "3d" and "4d" mean, and what those coins were
worth in U.S. money at that time.
And, don't knock EDLIN: I wrote my first config.sys file with it
(sniff).
Bill Horne
Temporary Moderator
(Please put [Telecom] at the end of the subject line of your post, or
I may never see it. Thanks!)
John Levine
>System all at roughly the same time, or was gradually phased in in
>different places at different places.
It took a very long time because each state utility commission had to
approve it. As I recall, the last holdout was Louisiana, like a
decade after everywhere else.
_
>
> I've seen the same thing in London; one place calls were 3d; another two
> stops on the underground and they were 4d.
>
> ***** Moderator's Note *****
>
> Please tell us what "3d" and "4d" mean, and what those coins were
> worth in U.S. money at that time.
>
"d" for the UK (old) penny comes from the latin "denarius". From 1950 to
the mid 60's a pound (240 pence) was worth about $2.80 in USD, so a penny
UK was a little more than a penny US - 4d was about a nickel.
English coinage was at least as full of oddities in nomenclature as it was
in division.
Anthony Bellanga
> Lisa Hancock wrote:
Actually, MOST of the US, at least "Bell" areas, was already 10-cents by
the mid-1950s.
Louisiana as an entire state was the last holdout. I understand that
Louisiana briefly went to 10-cents in the 1950s, but it went back to
5-cents. I will have to research this... I sort of wonder if Southern
Bell (yes, it was Southern Bell for Louisiana, and also Mississippi,
Alabama, Tennessee, and Kentucky, until 1968/69 when South Central Bell
broke from Southern Bell retained by North Carolina, South Carolina,
Georgia, Florida)... if Southern Bell raised the rate unilaterally
raised the rate to 10-cents without going through all of the proper
procedures of the Louisiana Public Service Commission???
Louisiana did increase to 10-cents, at least in South Central Bell
exchanges, effective January 1979. I don't know when the non-Bell
exchanges changed their rates.
Similarly, I don't know how uniformly the "Bell" 10-cent rate (or
higher starting in the 1970s) applied to non-Bell exchanges in any
state. Of course, GT&E and other large independents probably fell in
line with the rate that Bell used. But even in the early 1980s, there
were still many non-Bell exchanges in rural areas and villages which
still had 5-cent local calls at payphones. I've even heard of a few
rare cases where the independent telco in such small villages had one
or two public phones which were FREE for local calls, but you had to
pay (coins I assume, although collect, third party, calling card, etc.
would still be possible) for toll calls.
I wonder what the situation was in Canada? Afterall, there is Bell
Canada in most of Quebec and Ontario, and until 1975, they were
considered a BOC, as AT&T still owned a (small) part of them. And also
the Maritime Provinces, which Bell Canada also owned a part of those
telcos. Did Canada migrate to 10-cents for local payphone calls at
roughly the same time as most of the US? What about western Canada which
was GT&E in British Columbia, and provincial government owned telcos in
the other three provinces, Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba?
Also, back then, with the exception of Bell Canada for Quebec & Ontario
(but not the subsidiaries in the Maritimes) and the GT&E-held British
Columbia Telephone Company which were federally regulated by the CRTC,
all of the other major telcos in Canada and the small independents
scattered about Ontario and Quebec and even back then a few other
provinces, were regulated by provincial government telephone regulatory
boards. Now, virtually ALL telephone regulation in Canada is ONLY by the
federal CRTC.
What about Alaska? They have always been a scattering of independent
local telcos, although GT&E and Contel at one time owned some of them.
At the time that most of the mainland US was increasing to 10-cents,
Alaska was not yet a state of the US, but only a possession.
Similarly what about Hawaii? They too were not yet a state but only a
possession until 1959 or 1960. But unlike Alaska, Hawaii was a single
uniform non-Bell telco for the entire state. It was the Mutal Telephone
Company of Hawaii, later renamed Hawaiian Telephone Company. GT&E bought
them out in 1966 or 1967, and Verizon inherited them in 2000.
But Verizon sold Hawaii to the Carlyle Group effective May 2005, and the
local telco in Hawaii is now named "Hawaiian Telcom" (that is Telcom,
not Telecom).
- a/b
Wes Leatherock
<j...@jt-mj.net> wrote:
[snip]
> Definitely different places at different times. It
> had to go through the
> regulatory agency in each state. Even within a
> city, phones were
> converted whenever the lineman got to them.
It may seem picky, but it was not a minor matter
to the crafts involved. Linemen would not have worked
on pay phone or any other station apparatus. This
would be the job of installers, repairnen or
installer-repairmen. Those were the titles at the
time. They probably have new titles today, probably
inclunging "technician."
Wes Leatherock
wlea...@yahoo.com
wes...@aol.com
Wes Leatherock
> <anthony...@gonetoearth.com> wrote:
[snip]
> I wonder what the situation was in Canada? Afterall, there is Bell
> Canada in most of Quebec and Ontario, and until 1975, they were
> considered a BOC, as AT&T still owned a (small) part of them.
It is my recollection that Bell Canada and the other companies in
which AT&T had only a minority interest - the Cincinnati & Suburban
Bell Telephone Company and the Southern New England Telephone Company
- were "associated companies," not Bell Operating Companies. The
significant thing that set them apart from "connecting companies,"
later "independent companies," was that they were signatories to the
"license agreement" that defined a Bell companies. The "license
agreement" allowed them to use all AT&T and Western Electric patents,
methods of operation, and participate in financial matters on the same
footing as other Bell companies." This also applied to their
manufacturing arm, Northern Telecom, which could use any of the
W.E. patents and produced, at that time, products mostly identical to
W.E. In fact, in reply to an urgent plea from the SWBT chief angineer
for Oklahoma for relief of a badly overloaded office in a rapidly
growing area of Tulsa, W.E. arranged to procure a 5XB from Northern
Telecom. The chief engineer said the only thing different was the
equipment was painted beige instead of the standard W.E. dull blue.
I spent a month or so at AT&T headquarters in the 1960s, I believe
it was, and those three companies were very well aware that they were
not controlled by AT&T in the legal sense and were not obligated to
follow AT&T suggestions. (As the editor of the SWBT publication for
Oklahoma employees, I once asked the editor of the Bell Canada
publication if he would send me a copy of a photograph for an upcoming
promotional event that AT&T would not furnish in advance to the BOC
editors for fear it would appear before the proper time. I needed it
to get it into our publication in advance: because of our deadline we
would have missed the [chance to publish in the SWBT] publication that
came out just after the [photo's] release date. Otherwise, we would
not have had it until weeks or maybe a month after the appropriate
date. Bell Canada, not under AT&T's thumb, could of course get the
photo in advance.)
Wes Leatherock
wlea...@yahoo.com
wes...@aol.com
***** Moderator's Note *****
I'm confused: how would Bell Canada have quicker access than SWBT to a
photo that was embargoed by AT&T? Was the event in question sponsored
by Bell Canada, or did AT&T distrubute media outside the operating
companies in advance of the internal dates?
Tor-Einar Jarnbjo
> English coinage was at least as full of oddities in nomenclature as it was
> in division.
This is getting very off topic now, but I have a rather funny story from
my first visit to England. With my metrical brain, I had practised
several hours before I dared to visit a grocery store to buy "half a
pound" of cheese. Everything went well until the nice lady had cut of a
good looking piece of cheese, put it on the scale and then my whole
world broke down: "That's seven and three eighth ounces. Is that fine
with you, sir?" What is a regular guy supposed to answer to such a
demanding question?
Tor
***** Moderator's Note *****
I suppose we could tie it to telecom by surveying the cablemen in
the group, and asking them to describe the smell of their least
favorite manhole.
Bill Horne
Temporary Moderator
(Please put [Telecom] at the end of your subject line, or I may never
see your post. Thanks!)
Bill
news:5b8b463c-e1dc-4ea8...@s50g2000hsb.googlegroups.com:
I found the local coin telephone rate in Louisiana in 1974 at five
cents. This was during basic training at Fort Polk. Where the fort was
served by a Bell System Associated company located in Leesville not far
away. I don't know when, or how much, the five cent coin paid call rate
increased to.
All coin telephones on post were served on a manual dial basis (No dial
pad on the coin phone equipment). To place a call, one would pick up the
G type handset, wait for the local operator to answer on her cord board
incoming subscriber lines. Then advance the call in the conventional
operator dial manner, or manual ring down if to another pay phone. I
don't know if there were any regular 1FR subscriber lines were full
manual.
I was never able to get inside and visit that local telephone office. I
wanted to take a look at the local company operator switchboard, and
compare them to the switchboards at the AT&T Long Lines overseas that I
worked with during thata same time frame.
I do recall three digit dial subscriber lines in Colorado. To call
complete, the US or overseas operator dialed the local toll center
(303+NXX), and pass the three digit number to that operator.
Bill
Al Gillis
news:68eog1F...@mid.individual.net...
If our moderator and the group will tolerate another "odd English money"
item I'll offer this mathematics class story problem:
"The coalman delivered seven sacks of coal at thirteen shillings and
tenpence, ha'penny a hundredweight. Your Mum gave him a five-pound note,
then bought a pair of shoes for one guinea and gave you half a crown pocket
money with the change. How much did she have left?"
And we complain about Susan B. Anthony and Sacagawea dollar coins!
Now flash the switchhook to recall the operator!
***** Moderator's Note *****
I'll let it by just because it's a sunny day and I spend my honeymoon
in Great Britain. ;-)
We don't need to worry about Scagewea coins: today's kids need to
learn about how fast interest daily interest compounds, and how much
they can save by buying down their mortgage - or (here's the telecom
hook) by taking advantage of discount off-hours rates.
Bill Horne
Temporary Moderator
(Please put [Telecom] at the end of the subject line of your post, or
I may never see it. Thanks!)