> Cable companies can (and usually do) carry more local channels than
> satellite systems do. They're both required to carry certain locals,
> but AFAIK, Dish and DirecTV carry few (if any) of the subchannels,
> and that's where many of the foreign-language broadcasts are. So
> check the channel lineups for all the companies you're considering
> before you make a choice, to make sure that you select one that
> has the channels you want.

>> TWC sales said for monthly payments as of Christmas break of 2011:
>> $24.50 (basic/local broadcast TV)
>> $52.99 (regular Internet package)
>> $10 DVR rental (heard cable DVRs suck? Or should we get our own
>> [however, I can't find one that doesn't require subscriptions like
>> DTVPal and ChannelMaster DVRs]
>> $49.99 for installation charge

> Instead of using their DVR, which might suck and will definitely have
> a monthly charge, I love my Silicondust HDHomerun network tuners.
> Equip them with CableCards and you can watch or record the encrypted
> channels, in addition to unencrypted locals. You'll need storage for
> the recordings and you'll need a front end like SageTV, BeyondTV,
> MythTV, Windows 7 Media Center, etc. Once set up, it works flawlessly,
> at least for me. Wife is technology-challenged and took to this setup
> like a duck to water. HDHR's (with CableCard support) are available
> with 3 or 6 tuners. Lose the CableCard support (and the ability to
> watch or record encrypted channels) and they have a unit available
> with just two tuners.

> <http://www.silicondust.com/products/hdhomerun/prime/>

> <http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Orde...>

> Note that these tuners won't work with satellite TV, so if you choose
> Dish or Direct instead of TWC these tuners won't be an option.

On Fri, 17 Feb 2012 12:19:45 -0800, Ant <a...@zimage.comANT> wrote:

>We are definitely ordering Time Warner Cable (TWC)'s Road Runner
>Internet service since that is the only fastest and cheapest ($52.99 per
>month for standard package) since nothing else and/or good is available
>(no DSL, no FIOS, satellite and dial-up sucks and are too slow).

>> I don't know if this is the proper newsgroups to ask this. In a few
>> months, my family and I (three people) will be relocating/moving to
>> another house. We won't be able to get free over the air (OTA) due to a
>> small mountain/giant hill blocking transmitters for Los Angeles/L.A.
>> broadcasts. It is impossible to get a very high antenna (would require a
>> high rise building height with twenty floors -- 193 or more feet for the
>> local English stations in green color according to TVFool.com!). So that
>> means we will have to order cable or satellite TV for TV feeds. Since we
>> don't watch many movies and stuff (we just rent or stream), we will
>> still keep it simple and basic. Hopefully, cheap/low cost. Basically, we
>> want all local broadcast channels including foreign ones (asian like
>> Chinese).

>> We are definitely ordering Time Warner Cable (TWC)'s Road Runner
>> Internet service since that is the only fastest and cheapest ($52.99 per
>> month for standard package) since nothing else and/or good is available
>> (no DSL, no FIOS, satellite and dial-up sucks and are too slow).

>> TWC sales said for monthly payments as of Christmas break of 2011:
>> $24.50 (basic/local broadcast TV)
>> $52.99 (regular Internet package)
>> $10 DVR rental (heard cable DVRs suck? Or should we get our own
>> [however, I can't find one that doesn't require subscriptions like
>> DTVPal and ChannelMaster DVRs]
>> $49.99 for installation charge

>> Total = $84.79 per month for service (without $49.99 for installation
>> charge).

>> Bundled packages and a single bill would be nice too if it is cheap/not
>> much different, but if satellite TV service is a lot cheaper than we
>> will get it. However, it will suck if the whole cable goes out/down,
>> then no Internet and TV. :(

>> I read and heard that satellite TV services for TV stuff can be cheaper
>> and better quality. We will also need to get a new DVR (we still have
>> VCRs, but why?) to replace DTVPal DVR (only for OTA). There are several
>> satellite TV services like EchoStar, DishTV, DirecTV, etc. Which ones to
>> get? We have never owned satellite TV services before so this will be
>> new to us. Also, we still use old CRT TVs but we will get HDTV ones
>> later on when they break/die.

> For Dish Network, adding one's local stations is only an additional
> $5/month beyond other programming.  However, you'll only get the primary
> digital channel.  The secondary OTA streams are not covered.  However,
> depending on where you are, you might be able to receive them OTA
> nonetheless due to their signal strength -- or receive a similar feed from
> San Diego.

> In my opinion, you should be ready to go with your choice when you move in
> BUT first be able to survey what you can actually see OTA before actually
> ordering any service (unless you want more than just OTA plus basic).  The
> minidishes are currently cheaper than cable TV.

> I'm in the shadow of the Santa Monica Mountains/Hollywood Hills from the
> transmitters on Mounts Wilson and Lukens, but I do receive about half of
> the OTA stations over the air.  I also see San Diego more than 50% of the
> time (i.e. good weather) and sometimes can see Ensenada, BC, Mexico
> stations (about 15 days/year).  The furthest I ever saw (before the digital
> conversion) was WCCV 54 in Arecibo, PR during troposphere ducting about 15
> years ago.

>> We are definitely ordering Time Warner Cable (TWC)'s Road Runner
>> Internet service since that is the only fastest and cheapest ($52.99 per
>> month for standard package) since nothing else and/or good is available
>> (no DSL, no FIOS, satellite and dial-up sucks and are too slow).

> Is there a self install option in the home?
> Do Best Buy stores offer modems for sale and any free startup offers?

> I could say to get cable Internet for $53 and split the coax, run it
> to the TV. See what comes in :) but more and more cable systems are
> encrypting everything.

> The Windows Media Center suggestion is really one to consider for a
> DVR that does not have a monthly fee.

> On Fri, 17 Feb 2012 17:35:33 -0800, Ant<a...@zimage.comANT>  wrote:

>> On 2/17/2012 4:39 PM PT, D. Stussy typed:

>>> I'm in the shadow of the Santa Monica Mountains/Hollywood Hills from the
>>> transmitters on Mounts Wilson and Lukens, but I do receive about half of
>>> the OTA stations over the air.  I also see San Diego more than 50% of the
>>> time (i.e. good weather) and sometimes can see Ensenada, BC, Mexico
>>> stations (about 15 days/year).  The furthest I ever saw (before the digital
>>> conversion) was WCCV 54 in Arecibo, PR during troposphere ducting about 15
>>> years ago.

>> Not if there is a big hill/mountain blocking transmitters. Both
>> antennaweb and tvfools show yellow and red for them.

> But they seem to show good colors for a nice handful of stations,
> right? According to them, are you likely to receive all of the major
> networks, at least?

>> Previous home owners couldn't get OTA because of that. See:
>> http://i.imgur.com/q7LS4.jpg
>> http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d40330909db...
>> http://i.imgur.com/KWz13.gif

>> :(

> Could be a lot worse. You could be in a location where you get nothing
> at all OTA.

> Lastly, in my experience, both tvfool and antennaweb are a bit
> pessimistic in their predictions. In my area, at least, I get more
> channels than they think I should.

>> Not if there is a big hill/mountain blocking transmitters. Both
>> antennaweb and tvfools show yellow and red for them. Previous home
>> owners couldn't get OTA because of that. See:
>> http://i.imgur.com/q7LS4.jpg
>> http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d40330909db...
>> http://i.imgur.com/KWz13.gif

> I've got 1200 feet of hill in my way of line of sight, and on your list, I
> can receive down to KCET, but not KCBS.  However, I do have a 57 element
> rooftop antenna.  KNBC or KTLA will probably be your weakest received major
> station without a rooftop antenna.  You're about 18.5 miles away while I'm
> 25 miles distant from the main collection of transmitters.  Good luck.

>>> I could say to get cable Internet for $53 and split the coax, run it
>>> to the TV. See what comes in :) but more and more cable systems are
>>> encrypting everything.

>> Isn't that illegal?

> No.

> You'll most likely only get some of the local channels via clear QAM,
> so your TV(s) need to have a QAM tuner.

>>>> I don't know if this is the proper newsgroups to ask this. In a few
>>>> months, my family and I (three people) will be relocating/moving to
>>>> another house. We won't be able to get free over the air (OTA) due to
> a
>>>> small mountain/giant hill blocking transmitters for Los Angeles/L.A.
>>>> broadcasts. It is impossible to get a very high antenna (would require
> a
>>>> high rise building height with twenty floors -- 193 or more feet for
> the
>>>> local English stations in green color according to TVFool.com!). So
> that
>>>> means we will have to order cable or satellite TV for TV feeds. Since
> we
>>>> don't watch many movies and stuff (we just rent or stream), we will
>>>> still keep it simple and basic. Hopefully, cheap/low cost. Basically,
> we
>>>> want all local broadcast channels including foreign ones (asian like
>>>> Chinese).

>>>> We are definitely ordering Time Warner Cable (TWC)'s Road Runner
>>>> Internet service since that is the only fastest and cheapest ($52.99
> per
>>>> month for standard package) since nothing else and/or good is
> available
>>>> (no DSL, no FIOS, satellite and dial-up sucks and are too slow).
...
>>> In my opinion, you should be ready to go with your choice when you move
> in
>>> BUT first be able to survey what you can actually see OTA before
> actually
>>> ordering any service (unless you want more than just OTA plus basic).
> The
>>> minidishes are currently cheaper than cable TV.

>> How much cheaper? Hence trying to decide cable or satellite for
>> basic/local TV services.

> You'll have to visit the web sites and compare.

>>> I'm in the shadow of the Santa Monica Mountains/Hollywood Hills from
> the
>>> transmitters on Mounts Wilson and Lukens, but I do receive about half
> of
>>> the OTA stations over the air.  I also see San Diego more than 50% of
> the
>>> time (i.e. good weather) and sometimes can see Ensenada, BC, Mexico
>>> stations (about 15 days/year).  The furthest I ever saw (before the
> digital
>>> conversion) was WCCV 54 in Arecibo, PR during troposphere ducting about
> 15
>>> years ago.

>> Not if there is a big hill/mountain blocking transmitters. Both
>> antennaweb and tvfools show yellow and red for them. Previous home
>> owners couldn't get OTA because of that. See:
>> http://i.imgur.com/q7LS4.jpg
>> http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d40330909db...
>> http://i.imgur.com/KWz13.gif

> I've got 1200 feet of hill in my way of line of sight, and on your list, I
> can receive down to KCET, but not KCBS.  However, I do have a 57 element
> rooftop antenna.  KNBC or KTLA will probably be your weakest received major
> station without a rooftop antenna.  You're about 18.5 miles away while I'm
> 25 miles distant from the main collection of transmitters.  Good luck.

Ant  <a...@zimage.comANT> wrote:
>On 2/17/2012 9:21 PM PT, Bill M. typed:

>> You'll most likely only get some of the local channels via clear QAM,
>> so your TV(s) need to have a QAM tuner.

>Hmm, how can I check if these old CRT TVs have them?

>> Um, no. None of them were green. To be green, the antennae would have to
>> be about twenty floor high. :(

> Not sure why you're holding out for green. Blue and violet are easily
> watchable in most cases. Worst case, you may need an antenna in the
> attic or on the roof rather than a little 8" loop inside the house.

> Do you own the hill, by chance? Put the antenna up on the hill where
> it has a clear line of site, add a signal amp, then run coax down the
> hill to the house. Split it to the various TV's, as needed. I don't
> know how far that is so I can't say if it's practical.

>>>>> I could say to get cable Internet for $53 and split the coax, run it
>>>>> to the TV. See what comes in :) but more and more cable systems are
>>>>> encrypting everything.

>>> You'll most likely only get some of the local channels via clear QAM,
>>> so your TV(s) need to have a QAM tuner.

>> Hmm, how can I check if these old CRT TVs have them? I know my Sharp 20"
>> CRT TV, from 1996, has cable analog and antenna support with its coax
>> input (yep, only one port). I also have an old Toshiba VCR from dotcom days.

> Your old TV's and VCR's don't have QAM tuners, but new HD TV's do.

>>> You'll most likely only get some of the local channels via clear QAM,
>>> so your TV(s) need to have a QAM tuner.

>> Hmm, how can I check if these old CRT TVs have them?

> They don't. QAM tuners are in digital TVs. (Although as Bill noted,
> not in all of them.)

> Given the information you've posted (repeatedly) in these groups and
> others, it's obvious that your new home will not get OTA without an
> impractically tall antenna, so just bite the bullet and do what we've
> all suggested: figure out which international channels you really want,
> check the channel lineups for the cable and satellite companies that
> are available at that location, and subscribe to the service that will
> give you those channels. If you're lucky and the channels you want are
> available from more than one provider, then you can compare prices on
> their websites and take the cheaper/cheapest one.

>>>>> You'll most likely only get some of the local channels via clear QAM,
>>>>> so your TV(s) need to have a QAM tuner.

>>>> Hmm, how can I check if these old CRT TVs have them? I know my Sharp 20"
>>>> CRT TV, from 1996, has cable analog and antenna support with its coax
>>>> input (yep, only one port). I also have an old Toshiba VCR from dotcom days.

>>> Your old TV's and VCR's don't have QAM tuners, but new HD TV's do.

>> Ah. I assume those simple/cheap OTA DTV tuner boxes don't as well.

> Nope, those are ATSC tuners, not QAM. Both are digital, but
> incompatible with each other. Many/most new TV's can handle both.

"Ant" <a...@zimage.comANT> wrote in message

> Hello.

> I don't know if this is the proper newsgroups to ask this. In a few
> months, my family and I (three people) will be relocating/moving to
> another house. We won't be able to get free over the air (OTA) due to a
> small mountain/giant hill blocking transmitters for Los Angeles/L.A.
> broadcasts. It is impossible to get a very high antenna (would require a
> high rise building height with twenty floors -- 193 or more feet for the
> local English stations in green color according to TVFool.com!). So that
> means we will have to order cable or satellite TV for TV feeds. Since we
> don't watch many movies and stuff (we just rent or stream), we will
> still keep it simple and basic. Hopefully, cheap/low cost. Basically, we
> want all local broadcast channels including foreign ones (asian like
> Chinese).

> We are definitely ordering Time Warner Cable (TWC)'s Road Runner
> Internet service since that is the only fastest and cheapest ($52.99 per
> month for standard package) since nothing else and/or good is available
> (no DSL, no FIOS, satellite and dial-up sucks and are too slow).

> TWC sales said for monthly payments as of Christmas break of 2011:
> $24.50 (basic/local broadcast TV)
> $52.99 (regular Internet package)
> $10 DVR rental (heard cable DVRs suck? Or should we get our own
> [however, I can't find one that doesn't require subscriptions like
> DTVPal and ChannelMaster DVRs]
> $49.99 for installation charge

> Total = $84.79 per month for service (without $49.99 for installation
> charge).

> Bundled packages and a single bill would be nice too if it is cheap/not
> much different, but if satellite TV service is a lot cheaper than we
> will get it. However, it will suck if the whole cable goes out/down,
> then no Internet and TV. :(

> I read and heard that satellite TV services for TV stuff can be cheaper
> and better quality. We will also need to get a new DVR (we still have
> VCRs, but why?) to replace DTVPal DVR (only for OTA). There are several
> satellite TV services like EchoStar, DishTV, DirecTV, etc. Which ones to
> get? We have never owned satellite TV services before so this will be
> new to us. Also, we still use old CRT TVs but we will get HDTV ones
> later on when they break/die.

> Thank you in advance. :)
> --
> "The tiny ant dares to enter the lion's ear." --Armenian
>     /\___/\         Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
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