JavaScript Tutorial
DBA Hussain GGL
examples send your feed back and suggestions regarding our JavaScript
Tutorial
http://www.globalguideline.com/JavaScript_Guide/index.php
Regards.
frosty
Interesting language, similar to Engrish:
"Here in JavaScript we will see that JavaScript is used
in web development from several years and a number of
benefits we were using while development of websites."
--
frosty
Ed Sheehan
news:2JOdneBcDfhIEXbV...@centurytel.net...
"... and the great Ronald Reagan..."
<paste>
>
> --
> frosty
>
frosty
>>> Here is the JavaScript Tutorial with thousands of real and simple
>>> examples send your feed back and suggestions regarding our
>>> JavaScript Tutorial
>>>
>>> http://www.globalguideline.com/JavaScript_Guide/index.php
> frosty noted:
>> Interesting language, similar to Engrish:
>> "Here in JavaScript we will see that JavaScript is used
>> in web development from several years and a number of
>> benefits we were using while development of websites."
Ed Sheehan wrote:
> <cut>
> "... and the great Ronald Reagan..."
> <paste>
ISTR Reagan as a gifted speaker, who could sell anything,
even things he didn't understand. Maybe you're thinking
of Dubya, who's (in)famous for mangling English.
--
frosty
Ed Sheehan
take on Sarah Palin. I like Sarah, but sometimes she can get into linguistic
trouble before landing on a period. Fey's satire last Saturday was quite
funny...
Ed
Tony Gravagno
>take on Sarah Palin. I like Sarah, but sometimes she can get into linguistic
>trouble before landing on a period. Fey's satire last Saturday was quite
>funny...
I missed both of Tina's skits, did she rip on Sarah for Nucular?
They should have one test for candidates (well, a LOT of tests). If
you're supposed to be responsible for what's in the black bag and you
can't even say Nuclear, then you aren't allowed to run for office.
Hey, with what other job do we get to go to the interview, completely
miss the questions, then leave and get coached, then go and tell
everyone else that we're still qualified and blame the interviewer for
any misconceptions? Oh yeah, and do the same thing at least twice?
Political office should be like any civilian office - no coaching.
You're either qualified or you don't get the job - like in the banking
and mortgage loan industry! ;)
T
dawn
The one comment I can give from a first glance at your tutorial, other
than to contratulate you for your work, is that you use "JScript"
instead of JavaScript in the sidebar.
You can abbreviate JavaScript as JS, but not as JScript which is a
Microsoft language. Obviously JScript looks a lot like JavaScript,
but it should none-the-less not be confused in this way. JavaScript
is the common name for ECMA Script, the one backed by some industry
standards (rather than simply by one company's standards).
I did not get a chance to go into it further, but thought I would at
least provide that feedback. Best wishes. --dawn
Oh, and Tony, you can see Tina Fey as Sarah Palin on youtube.
Ross Ferris
Wonder how you get the experience or qualifications to BE President
then? Run a smaller country first? Ohhh, sorry, now I see the Banking
reference! I thought a lot of the Banking people had previoously
worked for high flying corporations like Enron where they made similar
transactions, and .... ohh, right, NOW I see. The high level tie in
with Banks like Royal Bank of Scotland, Deutsche Bank &CitiGroup. The
Collapse, and then the part where people only get a fraction of what
their $$$ are worth
Just an observation from the other side of the ditch :-)
cl...@comcast.net
Come on Tony. The most qualified man for president, by your standards
was Jimmy Carter. The least qualified would have been Reagan. Who do
you judge most successful? ;)
Patrick, <;=)
BobJ
bottom.. Every society has its secret lingo and the nuke bunch are no
different. It is a badge of membership to say that word in that strange
way. If you spend much time at one or more of the centers you soon find
yourself saying it as they do - and it takes time and effort to break the
habit. At the other end of the spectrum there is a professional group who
say "masonary" when referring to works of stone or cement. I wonder what
strange word we use that is causing snickers to follow us through the
airport?
BobJ
"Tony Gravagno" <address.i...@removethis.com.invalid> wrote in
message news:qhdne4115jkggbhf1...@4ax.com...
BobJ
this question about his administration versus Reagan or either Bush. How
many people were killed in acts of war and how many of those acts of war
were really justified by the best interests - interests, not pride - of the
American people? If Carter had reacted to the Iran Embassy problem as most
other Presidents would have reacted there would have been thousands -
perhaps hundreds of thousands - killed. Most of the casualties would have
been Iranians so we wouldn't have cared that much. Perhaps one or two old
warriors might have cared.
BobJ
<cl...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:c0e881c9-e865-49de...@y79g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
cl...@comcast.net
> Carter was certainly not a highly regarded President - but try to answer
> this question about his administration versus Reagan or either Bush. How
> many people were killed in acts of war and how many of those acts of war
> were really justified by the best interests - interests, not pride - of the
> American people? If Carter had reacted to the Iran Embassy problem as most
> other Presidents would have reacted there would have been thousands -
> perhaps hundreds of thousands - killed. Most of the casualties would have
> been Iranians so we wouldn't have cared that much. Perhaps one or two old
> warriors might have cared.
Bob my point was that it is their judgment and beliefs that should be
our primary concern. Being able to quote facts and figures can be
impressive, but is not necessarily the best and obviously not the only
reason to prefer one candidate over another. It's what they believe
that counts. Palin is what she claims to be. I find that refreshing
(and definitely different) in politics.
my 2,
Patrick <;=)
Ed Sheehan
remark about Reagan. Fey made some hay of that, and it was pretty knee-jerk
funny. But on the whole, I really like Palin. I think she's more ready for
vp or pres than any of the other three because of her experience as governor
+ mayor + trading partner with Russia + chief of Alaska's national guard.
All executive-type experience that senators always lack. VERY few senators
have become president, and for good reason.
This drives the commie-libs absolutely tapioca. That's a clue that she's
doing something really right.
Everyone has traits that can be laughed at, but I think it's unfair to
belittle someone's motives and honor just because they can field dress a
moose.
Ed
"Tony Gravagno" <address.i...@removethis.com.invalid> wrote in
message news:qhdne4115jkggbhf1...@4ax.com...
cmu...@seeinggreen.net
which I assume Ed, Tom and others are) can be so blinded by the
demagoguery of Palin that they think we who oppose it are "jealous",
"she's doing something right," etc.
Thankfully it might be moot, her brief ascendancy is waning. Even the
conservative pundits are realizing what a dangerous, irrational,
ignorant (not un-smart) person she is.
When do we value mediocrity, ignorance, a passing ability to speak
correct English, exaggeration (I mean, just the fact that she can say
with a straight face that being able to see Russia (which is also a
lie) is "foreign policy experience" would've gotten her hooted off the
stage in gales of derisive laughter in any other county,) sneering,
ethical lapses, slaughtering animals from a helicopter, and a
propensity to stab friends in the back? (No point cataloging Palin's
views, it's not necessary to use them to condemn her.)
On a different note, am I the only one who thinks it's unconscionable
for Palin to lug her 3-month-old baby around? Granted it's Down, but
is it drugged? Can he sleep ALL the time on TV?
As someone once said, America will be the first country to go fascist
by democratic means. We may be at the abyss now, and we may pull back.
Chandru
On Oct 8, 1:46 pm, "Ed Sheehan" <NOedsS...@xmission.com> wrote:
> Sarah wandered a bit at one point in the debate, then concluded with a
> remark about Reagan. Fey made some hay of that, and it was pretty knee-jerk
> funny. But on the whole, I really like Palin. I think she's more ready for
> vp or pres than any of the other three because of her experience as governor
> + mayor + trading partner with Russia + chief of Alaska's national guard.
> All executive-type experience that senators always lack. VERY few senators
> have become president, and for good reason.
>
> This drives the commie-libs absolutely tapioca. That's a clue that she's
> doing something really right.
>
> Everyone has traits that can be laughed at, but I think it's unfair to
> belittle someone's motives and honor just because they can field dress a
> moose.
>
> Ed
>
> "Tony Gravagno" <address.is.in.po...@removethis.com.invalid> wrote in
> messagenews:qhdne4115jkggbhf1...@4ax.com...
Ed Sheehan
answered by cheer and focus brightens my day. Chandru, your rage saddens me
and others who value civil discourse and who believe in founding principles.
But I've long since come to the conclusion that there are those who cannot
grasp true conservative principles (many Republicans among them). They want
to be "compassionate" to those less fortunate by holding a gun to everyone's
head and saying, "contribute to my favorite charity or I'll plug ya." A sure
sign of mental defect.
But I don't want to sugar coat it: Palin rocks, and is better qualified than
McCain or Nobama.
Ed
<cmu...@seeinggreen.net> wrote in message
news:8368dd1a-cba7-4c5e...@k37g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
Bill Cooke
in rationality who will likely cancel out your vote, Ed. Palin rocks,
maybe at times, but Tina Fey is consistently better in her chosen
profession. Is being a comic figure really "qualification"? Palin's
ability to insult her audience is topped by few politians. Her call for
getting government out of the way, git outta the way, and then calling
for government to have good controls over the finance business, all in a
single "debate", hurts my mind. McCain's insult to the electorate in
appointing her as his potential replacement is unmatched, even by the
wacko bushies who say they are (trying to) follow god's will when doing
what they were elected to do. If we'd'a wanted god, we'd've elected
her, doggone it.
Taking time out from rationality and reason, particularly by folks who
make their livings out of practicing logic, for political "civil
discourse", is simply out of line. Comedy is one thing, but voting is
deadly serious (see BobJ's recent post).
Personally I love a good rant, and good reasoning, and respect for our
history. I find these in Chandu's key-clicking, and applaud it.
There certainly are Multiple Variables in the quest for an enlightened
electorate. There, we are back on topic, sort of, well, I'll get a cup
of java.
Bill
cmu...@seeinggreen.net
> That those who truly hate others become depressed when their hate is
> answered by cheer and focus brightens my day. Chandru, your rage saddens me
> and others who value civil discourse and who believe in founding principles.
I'm going to rear my head once last time and float over the cyber-
space of comp.databases.pick. Keep an eye on me.
Not *rage*, Ed, I leave that to Palin and her cohorts. Anger. As in
"how can the wealthiest country in the world even think about electing
this non-entity?" She's qualified? For what? Diana the Huntress? She
had to have a helper to manage her 6500 pop. town, whose budgetary
back she broke in one year. You *cannot be serious* about "trading
partner to Russia" being a qualification. Or "chief" of National
Guard? A governor isn't even privy to most of what the Guard plans,
far from actually affecting decisions. Oh I forgot. SHE WAS ON THE
PTA! Corralling all those wild hockey moms makes her very fit to go
toe-to-toe with Ahmadinejad (whose name, you notice, she pronounced
four times on TV to show us what a quick study she is. She'll do "six
thick thistle sticks" next.)
As for valuing civil discourse, wonderful, but...if that's really true
for you, how do you countenance Palin's lies, distortions, smears, and
demagoguery? A little dissonance there, maybe?.
Chandru
> But I've long since come to the conclusion that there are those who cannot
> grasp true conservative principles (many Republicans among them). They want
> to be "compassionate" to those less fortunate by holding a gun to everyone's
> head and saying, "contribute to my favorite charity or I'll plug ya." A sure
> sign of mental defect.
>
> But I don't want to sugar coat it: Palin rocks, and is better qualified than
> McCain or Nobama.
>
> Ed
>
> <cmur...@seeinggreen.net> wrote in message
Kevin Powick
> Palin rocks
And the US rolls... downhill... even more.
--
Kevin Powick
cl...@comcast.net
> On Oct 9, 1:08 pm, "Ed Sheehan" <NOedsS...@xmission.com> wrote:
>
> > That those who truly hate others become depressed when their hate is
> > answered by cheer and focus brightens my day. Chandru, your rage saddens me
> > and others who value civil discourse and who believe in founding principles.
>
> I'm going to rear my head once last time and float over the cyber-
> space of comp.databases.pick. Keep an eye on me.
>
> Not *rage*, Ed, I leave that to Palin and her cohorts. Anger. As in
> "how can the wealthiest country in the world even think about electing
> this non-entity?" She's qualified? For what? Diana the Huntress? She
> had to have a helper to manage her 6500 pop. town, whose budgetary
> back she broke in one year. You *cannot be serious* about "trading
> partner to Russia" being a qualification. Or "chief" of National
> Guard? A governor isn't even privy to most of what the Guard plans,
> far from actually affecting decisions. Oh I forgot. SHE WAS ON THE
> PTA! Corralling all those wild hockey moms makes her very fit to go
> toe-to-toe with Ahmadinejad (whose name, you notice, she pronounced
> four times on TV to show us what a quick study she is. She'll do "six
> thick thistle sticks" next.)
>
> As for valuing civil discourse, wonderful, but...if that's really true
> for you, how do you countenance Palin's lies, distortions, smears, and
> demagoguery? A little dissonance there, maybe?.
>
> Chandru
>
denial about it really doesn't help. On the up side it'll be over and
decided in less that month.
I do find these concerns about inexperience a bit amusing from someone
who by the process of elimination must me supporting Obama ;) RTFL
Patrick, <;=)
<snip>
Peter McMurray
It may come as a shock to some but most of the world thinks that a person
who considers it normal for an ordinary citizen to hide a handgun in a
briefcase, purse , bra even, is seriously certifiable.
I must admit that her attack on Eastern state interferers was fascinating.
I believe that she is on record as supporting the secession of Alaska so how
come she didn't say the lower 48. Ahah! of course that would have included
her heroes George dubya Texas and John Arizona :-)
If you are really interested in knowing who apart from Exxon and big Pharma
actually rules the roost behind this guns and god diplomacy may I suggest
"The Family - Power, Politics and Fundamentalism's Shadow Elite" by Jeff
Sharlet www.uqp.com.au
Peter McMurray
Kevin Powick
> If you are really interested in knowing who apart from Exxon and big Pharma
> actually rules the roost behind this guns and god diplomacy may I suggest
> "The Family - Power, Politics and Fundamentalism's Shadow Elite" by Jeff
> Sharlet www.uqp.com.au
If you really want to go big try checking out the 2 zeitgeist movies.
The latest one is at the top of the page (big eye). The first is
further down (blue square).
An interesting mix of fact, fiction and conspiracy theory, the the
first hour of the second/latest one is quite informative with regard
to how the monetary system works, or rather, doesn't.
http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/
--
Kevin Powick
art
> Hi
> It may come as a shock to some but most of the world thinks that a person
> who considers it normal for an ordinary citizen to hide a handgun in a
> briefcase, purse , bra even, is seriously certifiable.
It may come as a shock to the rest of the world that many US citizens
don't give a damn about the rest of the world's opinion about our Right
to Bear Arms. It might have something to do with a British Monarchy and
it's treatment of certain former colonies.
Art
Ed Sheehan
Ed
<cmu...@seeinggreen.net> wrote in message
news:2a2fdfc7-9c77-43e7...@l33g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
Peter McMurray
Unlike the movies and conspiracy theories the book is verifiable fact.
Peter Mcmurray
"Kevin Powick" <kpo...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:d1b945b0-11b3-4b91...@u28g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
Peter McMurray
constitution - and many US citizens clearly have not - it refers to a
militia, ie a body of citizens organised for defensive military service, not
a bunch of hoopleheads shooting at anything that moves.
The rest of the world is all too well aware that a significant number of US
citizens have no idea where the rest of the world is nor any idea what the
word democracy means. C'est la vie!
Oh,by the way, that is French, a language spoken in France which is part of
Europe and not as one US college graduate recently said on television "
Europe is a country where they speak French" Misguided Education perhaps
:-)
Peter McMurray
"art" <artm...@triad.rr.com> wrote in message
news:gcmecl$29cu$1...@services.telesweet...
Mark Brown
news:bTAHk.4454$sc2....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> Come Come Art! Still fighting imaginary wars. Actually if you read the
> US constitution - and many US citizens clearly have not - it refers to a
> militia, ie a body of citizens organised for defensive military service,
> not a bunch of hoopleheads shooting at anything that moves.
The Wikipedia article on the second amendment probably explains this better.
Who makes up the militia it talks about? The people. Where would the
people get the arms to build a well regulated militia if they didn't already
possess those weapons? Surely no government would house weapons for the
people to arm themselves any time they felt oppressed. So to assure all the
rights of the people, the right of self defense should never be denied.
Probably falsely quoted to Thomas Jefferson: "When a people fears its
government, that is tyranny. When a government fears its people, that is
freedom."
Mark
Peter McMurray
I believe that you will find the Swiss solved that problem. We in Australia
have also. I happen to be a reasonable shot although nowhere in the league
of my mates in Queenstown New Zealand. They could go bush for 3 months and
come back averaging 1.25 bullets per deer and that in extremely mountainous
terrain. The really good guys used a 222 because it was light to carry
whilst I had a 303/25, now I am down to a 22 for vermin and injured animals.
In the '60s we used to amble around with our guns underneath our arms -
unloaded of course as it was a sackable offence to enter camp with a loaded
gun, quite apart from being stupid. Now we have to have a licence, proper
locked storage with ammo and guns separate and you cant just carry it down
the street. In other words we have moved on from the Daniel Boone days to a
more civilised society.
However at no time did we ever find it necessary to carry a loaded pistol in
our pants, it is as it should be illegal, and guess what we don't have kids
shooting up the school every week, or mothers shooting their daughters
because they shouted boo when they came in the door, or road rage killers.
It is time the US came to its senses. Art reckons US citizens don't give a
damn, well quite honestly if those that don't give a damn kept to their own
back yard we wouldn't care less either. Unfortunately they take this
boneheaded attitude to places far afield.
Despite desperate attempts by the NRA to prove otherwise, a militia is an
organised trained body with a legitimate chain of command and that is
definitely what is required today not the hoopleheads.
Peter McMurray
"Mark Brown" <Mark_...@DrexelMgt.Com> wrote in message
news:5JidncxOmbTXeXPV...@comcast.com...
Ed Sheehan
militia come? Answer: From an un-regulated militia, otherwise known as the
people.
Ed
"Mark Brown" <Mark_...@DrexelMgt.Com> wrote in message
news:5JidncxOmbTXeXPV...@comcast.com...
Ed Sheehan
amendment are the same people mentioned in the first.
Ed
"Peter McMurray" <excal...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:_mDHk.4483$sc2....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
Chandru Murthi
vitriolic responses you'll get. ST&)(PID furriner trying to tell us
red-blooded Ummericans what to do? We got the constitution to uphold, boy!
This happens all the time on the Guardian-on-line when a commentator writes
something even vaguely critical of the US. Fun reading.
Talking about the constitution, it's always amused me how we treat this
document written 400 years ago as if cast in stone. Goes along with the view
(see Palin, earlier,) that America is "perfect."
The problem with the II amendment is it's ambiguously written, so "militia"
can be read as either something official (like the Guard) or just us plain
folk. If we (collectively in the US) had a brain, we would realize that,
unlike Nostradamus, the Founding Fathers probably could not see hundreds of
years into the future and envision the average Joe yearning for a MI-45, the
arming of teachers in Texas, depressed high-school students killing kids and
themselves, or allowing anyone to get away with killing an "intruder" on
their property even if he's a 16 year old stuttering Japanese kid with
limited English skills asking directions.
I mean, what're the chances that we need to take arms against our Government
in the 21st century? They probably can't find us anyway.
Chandru
"Peter McMurray" <excal...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:_mDHk.4483$sc2....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
frosty
> ...I mean, what're the chances that we need to take arms against our
Bingo! We have a winner.
--
frosty
cl...@comcast.net
They passed a law recently forbidding local governments from creating
local gun restrictions. You can basically carry a non-concealed weapon
anywhere that is not a courthouse or school.
Here are the current laws.
http://crime.about.com/od/gunlawsbystate/f/gunlaw_va.htm
And here is an article with many quotes from the founding fathers on
the subject.
http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=20971
Patrick, <;=)
Peter McMurray
You are part way there but "a well regulated militia" does not imply an
un-regulated source. You may notice that I mentioned the Swiss who don't
fight anybody but are prepared to defend with training using long arms that
they take home They do not rely on some loopy woman hiding a 10cm weapon in
her bra or some daft bloke with a 45 in his glove box. They definitely do
not allow people to go to gun shows and buy anything that goes bang for fun.
However the gun debate is a bit off centre and I really don't want to
criticise people for what they do at home, as Chandru says on other sites
there would be total freak-out. I am interested merely because US
government is so intent on exporting its confused view of how the world
should act. Ronny Raygun got a mention the other day, at last count he had
78 small wars against his name. If one goes back further you will find that
Iran was a successful democracy until the US generated a grab for the major
oil supplier and toppled Mossadeq. Now we have a monumental meltdown caused
by Wall Street plus Iraq. By the way it was the Saudis not the Iraqis that
organised 9/11, but the US couldn't attack them because Bin Laden spent a
billion dollars bailing out George dubya when he made a mess of daddy's
business, and any way the Saudis are the major US oil supplier.
You are not alone, we have some hoopleheads too. It has taken 10 years to
get rid of the worst prime minister in the history of Federation and even he
got the personal guns bit right, we just hope that you will get someone
better this time.
Good Luck in your deliberations
Peter McMurray
"Ed Sheehan" <NOed...@xmission.com> wrote in message
news:gcnrlg$u0d$1...@news.xmission.com...
frosty
> ...here is an article with many quotes from the founding
Including this gem: "...the Second Amendment wasn't written
into our Bill of Rights so that we could go duck and deer
hunting or shoot clay pigeons over the weekend. The Second
Amendment was given to us as protection against tyranny by
the federal government and the Congress of the United States."
Could not be stated any more clearly.
--
frosty
Chandru Murthi
> militia come? Answer: From an un-regulated militia, otherwise known as the
> people.
It may also be helpful (or not) to ask "who controls this WRM?". It may not
be self-regulated, it may be the National Guard.
But this is all pissing in the wind. Ed, Patrick, et al, you'll never
convince me that we are not a nation of gun-crazy nuts and I'll never
convince you of the folly of not having strict gun control. Let's talk about
date formats instead.
And I LOVE this: "When a government fears its people, that is freedom"--
did that idiot (the writer, that is) think that fear is hardly the best
motivator for priductivity and negotiation?
Chandru
Peter McMurray
I believe that you will find that JScript is JavaScript. One of the fastest
and most accurate pieces of reverse engineering in the history of computing.
The JScript name was just to avoid Sun's lawyers :-)
Peter McMurray
"dawn" <dawnwo...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:0890c591-d18c-4028...@n1g2000prb.googlegroups.com...
On Oct 7, 3:56 am, DBA Hussain GGL <mhussainiq...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Here is the JavaScript Tutorial with thousands of real and simple
> examples send your feed back and suggestions regarding our JavaScript
> Tutorial
>
> http://www.globalguideline.com/JavaScript_Guide/index.php
>
> Regards.
The one comment I can give from a first glance at your tutorial, other
than to contratulate you for your work, is that you use "JScript"
instead of JavaScript in the sidebar.
You can abbreviate JavaScript as JS, but not as JScript which is a
Microsoft language. Obviously JScript looks a lot like JavaScript,
but it should none-the-less not be confused in this way. JavaScript
is the common name for ECMA Script, the one backed by some industry
standards (rather than simply by one company's standards).
I did not get a chance to go into it further, but thought I would at
least provide that feedback. Best wishes. --dawn
Oh, and Tony, you can see Tina Fey as Sarah Palin on youtube.
art
> Come Come Art! Still fighting imaginary wars. Actually if you read
the US
> constitution - and many US citizens clearly have not
You are assuming I haven't read it? The right to bear arms is not given
to the militia, it's given to the private citizen, with the further
right to form a well-regulated militia. As to the imaginary wars, I
live in the Carolinas, and the battlefields from those "imaginary" wars
are still here. Try looking up King's Mountain in North Carolina, and
see what happened to Britain's finest at the hands of an un-regulated
militia, or Cowpens in South Carolina, for what happened to the Brits
with a well-regulated militia. You'd like to pretend this was all
imaginary, wouldn't you?
Art
P.S., Interesting, aioe.cjb.net wouldn't let me post this message,
something about a "banlist". I guess I just decided which isp I'm going
to subscribe to for news (services.telesweet.net).
art
something bad to happen today. I'll bet the French in Paris were a very
"civilized" society in 1929!
Art
art
> But this is all pissing in the wind. Ed, Patrick, et al, you'll never
> convince me that we are not a nation of gun-crazy nuts and I'll never
> convince you of the folly of not having strict gun control.
Washington DC has had some of the most strict gun control laws since the
Brady bill was signed into law in 1993. And yet, where is it's violent
crime rate? I'll quote Jeremy D. Blanks, Ph.D.;
"A review of the areas in the U.S. with the most restrictive firearm
laws, including such areas as Washington, D.C., Chicago, IL, New York,
NY, and the state of California, shows that these areas have some of the
highest crime (especially violent) crime rates in the U.S. The crime
rates in all of these areas exceeds the national average and they all
have enacted in-depth restrictions on firearm ownership that includes
licensing and registration schemes, various taxes, testing, and even
bans on firearms."
Peter McMurray
Those wars were hundreds of years ago. Personally I grew up playing on the
Icknield Way - those Romans knew how to build a road - so I suppose I should
be still fighting with the Iceni against the Gauls and the rest of the Roman
mercenaries :-) Trouble is the jerries were bombing the bejaesus out of us
at the time so I was a bit distracted and didn't get to read Caesar, Pliny
and Tacitus until I was a tweenager. Actually recent DNA testing has shown
that even their influence has all but gone so you can forget about Angles
and Saxons as we got done over by Dawn's mob The Friesians. I am afraid
that your reading of the constitution is just way off beam in modern
society.
King's Mountain!! Now doesn't it strike you as strange as the king you are
talking about is the king of the British Empire and the battle you are
talking about is between two armies of British people not Native Americans.
In other words a civil war - Brits fighting Brits :-) more of a class war
than anything else sort of like the French Revolution a couple of years
later, or the Russian revolution of 1917.
By the way the crime figures in places like Washington have everything to do
with poverty and precious little if anything to do with gun laws. Poverty
exacerbated by the enormous number of federal buildings not paying their
dues to the city infrastructure.
How on earth did you get CDP onto a ban list?
Oh also I love the release Palin put out exonerating herself just a couple
of hours before the ethics committee report was released finding her guilty.
Tricky Dicky would be proud of her :-)
Peter McMurray
"art" <artm...@triad.rr.com> wrote in message
news:gcothi$9gh$1...@services.telesweet...
cl...@comcast.net
wrote:
> "Ed Sheehan" <NOedsS...@xmission.com> wrote in message
>
> news:gcnrlg$u0d$1...@news.xmission.com...
>
> > It may be helpful to ask this question: From where does a well-regulated
> > militia come? Answer: From an un-regulated militia, otherwise known as the
> > people.
>
> It may also be helpful (or not) to ask "who controls this WRM?". It may not
> be self-regulated, it may be the National Guard.
>
> But this is all pissing in the wind. Ed, Patrick, et al, you'll never
> convince me that we are not a nation of gun-crazy nuts and I'll never
> convince you of the folly of not having strict gun control. Let's talk about
> date formats instead.
>
> And I LOVE this: "When a government fears its people, that is freedom"--
> did that idiot (the writer, that is) think that fear is hardly the best
>
> Chandru
This actually is a quote from Thomas Jefferson. Congratulations, you
may be the first one to call him an idiot. ;)
I believe you are correct on our chances of agreement. Best wishes.
Patrick, <;=)
<snip>
Chandru Murthi
guilty of ethical violations since --get this-- there was no financial gain
involved. What a sick illustration of what we've come to.
I stealeth-not, therefore I'm ethical.
>Art "Washington DC has had some of the most strict gun control laws since
>the Brady bill was signed into law in 1993. And yet, where is it's violent
>crime rate?"
I can't even begin to explain why this has little relationship to guns
without spending hours on US attitudes, how they are inculcated into our
young 'uns at an early age, the influence of the NRA, the poverty of our
cities, racism and other socio-economic factors that tie into the crime
rate. The free availability of guns just makes it easier to maim and kill
and otherwise increase the violence. The root causes are elsewhere.
>Patrick: "a quote from Thomas Jefferson. Congratulations, you may be the
>first one to call him an idiot"
Strictly speaking, I should've said his statement was "idiotic" instead of
him being a idiot, the latter locution being an Indianism that has gotten me
into much trouble with, among others, my wife.
Chandru
"Peter McMurray" <excal...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:HsYHk.4741$sc2....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
Bill_H
Bill
"frosty" <fro...@bogus.tld> wrote in message
news:SuudnXahBpxUJnLV...@centurytel.net...
art
> Hi Art
> Those wars were hundreds of years ago.
that was ancient history and doesn't apply today, and, you're just a
young "Danial Boone" country, and haven't been around as a country long
enough to have "civilized" yet.
> I am afraid that your reading of the constitution is just way off
beam in modern society.
Nice of you to tell me how to read my constitution!
> King's Mountain!! Now doesn't it strike you as strange as the king
you are talking about is the king of the British Empire and the battle
you are talking about is between two armies of British people not Native
Americans.
You need to do a little better research next time. Britain's troops
(which were really American Tories, not British), lead by English Col.
Patrick Ferguson, had taken the high ground at King's mountain and setup
a defense in October 1780, after the British invasion at Charleston SC
in May. A group of rag-tag mountain folk of Scottish descent, Tennessee
“Overmountain Men”, WITH GUNS, were pissed at the treatment by the
Brits, and formed what could be loosely called a militia, and marched
from the North Carolina mountains to almost South Carolina, and
completely wiped out the British position, giving the Patriots their
first major victory after the invasion. Hardly army vs. army. Now the
battle at Cowpens *was* between British regulars and the Continental
army. Still the same result for the Brits!
> By the way the crime figures in places like Washington have
everything to do with poverty and precious little if anything to do with
gun laws.
So you are agreeing with me that gun control is a waste of time at best,
and counter-productive at worst, leaving law-abiding citizens
defenseless? There may be hope for you yet!
> How on earth did you get CDP onto a ban list?
I doubt it was CDP. I had posted to CDP earlier thru that isp. I
suspect it was the content of the message triggered something.
> Oh also I love the release Palin put out exonerating herself just a
couple of hours before the ethics committee report was released finding
her guilty.
By legislators of the opposite party with an axe to grind. And what,
exactly, was it that they supposedly found her guilty of? That her
issues with her former brother-in-law "played a part" in the firing of
his boss. Right! He was fired because he wouldn't go along with budget
reductions.
Art
art
> Peter: Palin's campaign lawyer today said in effect that she could not be
> guilty of ethical violations since --get this-- there was no financial gain
> involved. What a sick illustration of what we've come to.
> I stealeth-not, therefore I'm ethical.
witch-hunt led by Democrat state legislators, looking for revenge
against a Republican governor that did her best to reign-in the run-away
state government. What did you *think* that report was going to say? It
seems that ever since Nixon, the best way Democrats know to get into
office is to manufacture a scandal on the part of their opponents.
>
>> Art "Washington DC has had some of the most strict gun control laws since
>> the Brady bill was signed into law in 1993. And yet, where is it's violent
>> crime rate?"
> I can't even begin to explain why this has little relationship to guns
So you think gun control is a waste of time also???
> The free availability of guns just makes it easier to maim and kill
> and otherwise increase the violence. The root causes are elsewhere.
We can agree the root causes are elsewhere. I could never figure out
how passing laws makes criminals less armed or dangerous. You think
they give a damn about silly gun-control laws either?
> the latter locution being an Indianism that has gotten me
> into much trouble with, among others, my wife.
Well at least there is some sense in your family! :-)
Art
Chandru Murthi
> Chandru Murthi wrote:
>> Peter: Palin's campaign lawyer today said in effect that she could not be
>> guilty of ethical violations since --get this-- there was no financial
>> gain involved. What a sick illustration of what we've come to.
>> I stealeth-not, therefore I'm ethical.
> Pretty much what I expected from you, Chandru. You've got a political
> witch-hunt led by Democrat state legislators, looking for revenge against
> a Republican governor that did her best to reign-in the run-away state
> government. What did you *think* that report was going to say? It seems
> that ever since Nixon, the best way Democrats know to get into office is
> to manufacture a scandal on the part of their opponents.
Total rubbish. The committee has 12 R and 4 D. Why is it that mere facts are
considered irrelevant?
Sorry on the second point as well. While I cannot bring up statistics, but
the number of Republican scandals vs. Demos must be at least 3-to-1. No need
to manufacture anything, we can just sit back and wait.
Chandru
>>
>>> Art "Washington DC has had some of the most strict gun control laws
>>> since the Brady bill was signed into law in 1993. And yet, where is
>>> it's violent crime rate?"
>> I can't even begin to explain why this has little relationship to guns
> So you think gun control is a waste of time also???
Good twist on my words. Obviously, not.
Peter McMurray
You surely can confuse yourself. Just for the record Scotland is part of
Britain. If you check my name you may notice that it is Scottish so I am
quite likely a Celt in descent my father's family being Scottish and my
Mother's being Irish. Yes we had an Irish fruit loop for a grandfather who
supported the IRA bombings in London - paid for by Boston money, now where
did you say terrorists come from?
My reference to Daniel Boone was in regard to my New Zealand experience
where I described me carrying a rifle down the street. Australia and NZ are
younger countries in the European sense than US but more advanced in social
attitudes despite the best efforts of George dubyas little mate Johnie
Howard.
I pointed out that the cause of the crime was poverty, I totally support gun
laws. However when Washington is surrounded by crazy states that happily
supply hand guns to all and sundry it is difficult to stop criminals using
Uzis, one can however reduce the domestic violence figures and give the cops
a bit of a chance.
As for Palin, well you dream up whatever conspiracy theories you like but do
try and check your facts. She was under investigation BEFORE she was put
forward as VP, and yes she is guilty of gross misconduct, albeit typical
small town behaviour.
Oeter McMurraynews:gcqr09$25i1$1...@services.telesweet...
art
> Hi Art
British, what's that got to do with the facts about King's mountain?
> I pointed out that the cause of the crime was poverty, I totally support gun
> laws. However when Washington is surrounded by crazy states that happily
> supply hand guns to all and sundry it is difficult to stop criminals using
> Uzis, one can however reduce the domestic violence figures and give the cops
> a bit of a chance.
Gun controls are a feel-good band-aid on the symptoms, not a fix for the
problem.
> As for Palin, well you dream up whatever conspiracy theories you like but do
> try and check your facts. She was under investigation BEFORE she was put
> forward as VP, and yes she is guilty of gross misconduct, albeit typical
> small town behavior.
Typical liberal arrogance. You think I was unaware of the muck-raking
well before this? And I am from a typical small town. You? And the
"guilty of gross misconduct", since that was not in the report, where
did you make it up from?
Quoting directing from the report: "I find that, although Walt Monegan's
refusal to fire Trooper Michael Wooten was not the sole reason he was
fired by Governor Sarah Palin, it was likely a contributing factor to
his termination as Commissioner of Public Safety. In spite of that,
Governor Palin's firing of Commissioner Monegan was a proper and lawful
exercise of her constitutional and statutory authority to hire and fire
executive branch department heads."
art
> "art" <artm...@triad.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:gcqrgd$25qo$1...@services.telesweet...
>> Chandru Murthi wrote:
>>> Peter: Palin's campaign lawyer today said in effect that she could not be
>>> guilty of ethical violations since --get this-- there was no financial
>>> gain involved. What a sick illustration of what we've come to.
>
> considered irrelevant?
Council, is a Democrat, irrelevant? Or is the fact that the state
senator managing the probe, Hollis French, is a Democrat an irrelevant
fact? French had been bragging during an interview back on Sept 2 that
he had an "October Surprise" for the GOP. And one only needs to look at
the timing of the release of the report to figure out what's going on here.
> Sorry on the second point as well. While I cannot bring up statistics, but
> the number of Republican scandals vs. Demos must be at least 3-to-1. No need
> to manufacture anything, we can just sit back and wait.
Well, we could start with Clinton's escapades in the Oval Office, or
Barney Franks latest trysts over at Freddie Mac, whom he was supposed to
be keeping an eye on. This was after he tired of Gobie. But for a more
comprehensive list, check out www.boycottliberalism.com/Scandals.htm
Many here I'd forgotten about.
Art
Chandru Murthi
True-blue Republican misdirection. The above is NOT THE POINT. Palin and her
First Dude husband engaged in systematic and sustained activity, which was
OBVIOUSLY squirrelly, and definitely unethical. Whether or not it is
criminal I agree is open to debate, and probably not worth pursuing. But
harassing a member of your staff to fire your ex-brother-in-law whom the
whole family hates...are you incapable of smelling fish?
Chandru
art
> "art" <artm...@triad.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:gcrokc$2u7f$1...@services.telesweet...
>> refusal to fire Trooper Michael Wooten was not the sole reason he was
>> fired by Governor Sarah Palin, it was likely a contributing factor to his
>> termination as Commissioner of Public Safety. In spite of that, Governor
>> Palin's firing of Commissioner Monegan was a proper and lawful exercise of
>> her constitutional and statutory authority to hire and fire executive
>> branch department heads."
>
> True-blue Republican misdirection.
world!
> The above is NOT THE POINT. Palin and her
> First Dude husband engaged in systematic and sustained activity, which was
> OBVIOUSLY squirrelly, and definitely unethical. Whether or not it is
> criminal I agree is open to debate, and probably not worth pursuing.
I wonder Chandru, were you so strident about Travelgate? You remember,
don't you? When seven longtime employees of the White House Travel
Office were fired, after a brief investigation by the Federal Bureau of
Investigation, so that friends of the Clintons could take over the
travel business? When First Lady Hillary Rodham Clinton came under
scrutiny for allegedly having played a central role in the firings and
making false statements about her role in it? After all, Chandru, we
wouldn't want double standards in our discussions, now would we?
Art
Peter McMurray
I have on occasion been quite bemused by a dedicated right wing that is
quite incapable of comprehending facts that disprove their beliefs - one can
hardly call them arguments as that implies reasoned discussion.
FACT - Scotland is part of Great Britain and was so in 1780.
FACT - The place currently known as the USA was a British colony in 1780 and
therefore its inhabitants were subjects of the British King .
FACT - Gun controls work extremely well in countries with the common sense
to implement them for example: Britain (England, Northern Ireland, Wales and
Scotland), Switzerland ( Maintains a militia), Australia, New Zealand etc.
FACT - I probably know more about small towns than your good self as I have
lived and worked in the remote settlements of New Zealand South Island;
1960's mining camps in North Western Australia; and currently live in a
state with a population of under 500,000, with my own village contributing
at least 350 to that number :-)
FACT - Palin went to great lengths to harass her brother-in-law because her
little sister fell out with him. This is gross misconduct.
FACT - A social conscience does not constitute arrogance. The use of the
term liberal is even more confusing as in Australia that has been taken by
the conservative party so loses any significance in this case, although I am
sure that the extreme right of that party is still left of what you call
for.
Interest - When did your family go to America? Judging by your name they
are from Germany but back then that was nothing like it is today. In fact
one of my wife's family went to NZ to avoid the wars of the mid 19th century
perhaps yours did the same :-) Maybe we should resurrect the
Austro-Hungarian empire :-)
Good luck
Peter McMurraynews:gcrokc$2u7f$1...@services.telesweet...
Chandru Murthi
> Chandru Murthi wrote:
>> "art" <artm...@triad.rr.com> wrote in message
>> news:gcrokc$2u7f$1...@services.telesweet...
>>> Quoting directing from the report: "I find that, although Walt Monegan's
>>> refusal to fire Trooper Michael Wooten was not the sole reason he was
>>> fired by Governor Sarah Palin, it was likely a contributing factor to
>>> his termination as Commissioner of Public Safety. In spite of that,
>>> Governor Palin's firing of Commissioner Monegan was a proper and lawful
>>> exercise of her constitutional and statutory authority to hire and fire
>>> executive branch department heads."
>>
>> True-blue Republican misdirection.
> Quoting directly from the probe's report is misdirection? Maybe in your
> world!
You know, Art, I did NOT mean the QUOTE was misdirection, I meant your
using it to prove your viewpoint. However, since we're talking quotations,
here's from the report:
"For the reasons explained in section IV of this report, I find that
Governor Sarah Palin abused her power by violating Alaska Statute
39.52.110(a) of the Alaska Executive Branch Ethics Act. Alaska Statute
39.52.110(a) provides The legislature reaffirms that each public officer
holds office as a public trust, and any effort to benefit a personal or
financial interest through official action is a violation of that trust."
Is that clear enough? Btw, your sharpshooter had this in response to a
reporter's question (actual quote):
"There was no abuse of authority at all in trying to get Officer Wooten
fired."
So she even admits she tried to get him fired. Which is at least a moral
failure. As Andrew Sullivan of the Atlantic says, she's "a couple of
sandwiches short of a picnic."
Chandru
art
> Hi Art
> quite incapable of comprehending facts that disprove their beliefs
> FACT - The place currently known as the USA was a British colony in 1780
Last time I checked, we declared our independence from the British King
in 1776, and at that point he could take a long walk on a short pier. Or
did you miss the part about a British invasion of a former colony, now
an independent country? So much for your grasp of facts.
> FACT - Gun controls work extremely well in countries with the common sense
> to implement them for example:
Another example of opinion vs. fact. Your opinion, here.
> FACT - I probably know more about small towns than your good self as I have
> lived and worked in the remote settlements of New Zealand South Island;
I grew up in a farming community with one stop light. The town I live
in now just got it's first stop light.
> FACT - Palin went to great lengths to harass her brother-in-law because her
> little sister fell out with him. This is gross misconduct.
Again, your opinion. Let's stick with what the report called it. Legal.
> FACT - A social conscience does not constitute arrogance.
When you go telling me how I should live, how I should interpret my
constitution, whether I am crazy for carrying a concealed weapon, what
is, to quote your condescending words, "albeit typical small town
behavior", yes I consider that arrogance.
> Interest - When did your family go to America? Judging by your name they
> are from Germany but back then that was nothing like it is today. In fact
> one of my wife's family went to NZ to avoid the wars of the mid 19th century
> perhaps yours did the same :-)
That depends on which branch of the family. Some comes from near
Salisbury, England. Some comes from what is called Pennsylvania Dutch,
which I think may have been from Holland thru Germany. And I think they
came to the new world to get away from those who would tell them how to
live and how to think and whether they could have a gun! ;-)
My Mom's side of the family has been here since the earliest frontier
days, probably the 1700s. A family name shows up in founding documents
for one of the small towns north of Philadelphia.
Art
art
> You know, Art, I did NOT mean the QUOTE was misdirection, I meant your
> using it to prove your viewpoint.
misconduct" and "definitely unethical", whereas the report actually uses
words like "contributing factor" and "proper and lawful exercise of her
constitutional and statutory authority". Slight difference, don't you think?
> So she even admits she tried to get him fired. Which is at least a moral
> failure.
Yeah, I guess she didn't learn well enough from Hillary's example.
Art
Peter McMurray
A declaration of Independence is actually an act of rebellion against the
law and therefore a terrorist act under your own US definitions. It
certainly was not a separate and independent country at the time of the
battle in the Carolinas.
Gun controls are working in the countries mentioned, that is not a matter of
opinion if is a fact even if you wish it otherwise.
Your town had one stop light, wow! Well our town doesn't have any :-)
Either way we both must know how Peyton Place works and Palin's behaviour in
trying to bully officials into sacking her brother in law through the
aggressive behaviour of her husband is classic Peyton Place.
As regards Palin I am afraid you must have left your reading glasses at
home. The report definitely did not call the harassment legal it called it
for what it is - misconduct.
I have never told you how you should live in fact I made the opposite
statement ( those goshdarn reading glasses again ) My concern is in your
government's violent behaviour outside your own country. Now those actions
are arrogant. However with regard to carrying concealed weapons that is
stupid and illegal in most countries.
So your family is part of the first invasion fleet that conquered the native
inhabitants with guns and disease yep they did the same thing here. One had
hoped that the desire for guns had abated as it has where we all came from
and where I now live. We certainly enjoy a far lower homicide rate than
your good selves.
Peter McMurray
"art" <artm...@triad.rr.com> wrote in message
news:gcues3$ksm$1...@services.telesweet...
Chandru Murthi
Small town rural America, is different than small towns in other countries.
The isolation, lack of history, social fabric destruction (result of wanting
to be "independent" regardless of family or societal obligations,) coupled
with the historic fear of goverment in the US leads to a closed-minded,
us-vs-them, anti-intellectual bent here. (I read/watch a lot of old British
fiction and the term "their betters" has always grated on me. But after this
election, I think it's time a sizable section of this country's population
recognized that some people are better than they are. At least in minor
details like speech, governance, negotiation and foreign policy.) I mean,
why most people want someone like themselves as President? Would you want
your beer-drinking buddy to perform surgery or fly a plane (unless he's a
doctor or a pilot of course.)
Isn't is amazing that this country, with its top-of-the-world scientists,
intellectuals, writers, artists, money and power has such an abysmal
election process that elevates the least qualified to the top? At least the
right-wing demagogues in Austria, France and Germany have advanced degrees
and can polish a phrase sans prompter.
"art" <artm...@triad.rr.com> wrote in message
news:gcufn2$lj7$1...@services.telesweet...
Hmm, must've missed something. When did Hillary try to fire someone? Other
than Monica, of course, which reminds me that you said:
> Well, we could start with Clinton's escapades in the Oval Office,
Yeah, a blow job is in the same nation-destroying category as Bush's war and
Cheney's abrogation of our rights and all the other nice things that've
happened in the last 8 years. Keep your eye on the ball(s)....
I think I'll take a break and do some work during the week... good
back-and-forth...want to restart after the debate?
Chandru
> Art
art
> Hi Again
> A declaration of Independence is actually an act of rebellion against the
> law and therefore a terrorist act under your own US definitions. It
> certainly was not a separate and independent country at the time of the
> battle in the Carolinas.
matter. We did not become an independent country when Britain finally
acceded the matter. We became an independent country when we told
Britain to take a hike. Our independence had nothing to do with whether
Britain agreed or not, that became a moot issue. Britain did not grant
us our independence. We declared it! It just took Britain a long time
to get a clue.
> Your town had one stop light, wow! Well our town doesn't have any :-)
> Either way we both must know how Peyton Place works and Palin's behaviour in
> trying to bully officials into sacking her brother in law through the
> aggressive behaviour of her husband is classic Peyton Place.
> As regards Palin I am afraid you must have left your reading glasses at
> home. The report definitely did not call the harassment legal it called it
> for what it is - misconduct.
We really do have two issues here. One, and the larger issue, is was
Governor Palin within her rights to fire the commissioner for the Dept.
of Public Safety. And the real issue here is budgets. Monegan didn't
like what Governor Palin was doing with them, i.e., taking money out of
Monegan's control. And the report was absolutely clear about this,
Governor Palin was completely within her rights to do this. To obscure
this issue, Monegan and others, tried to make this an issue about
Trooper Dial, who was not exactly an innocent choir-boy in all this. And
I don't disagree with your assessment of that second issue being classic
Payton Place. What the report said, was that Governor Palin was guilty
of abuse of power (not misconduct), by not stopping her husband from
inserting himself into the issue. The righteous indignation over this
rings very hollow to me, especially in context of the previously
mentioned Travelgate scandal. There you had a first spouse inserting
herself into staffing issues, only there she actually did get seven
long-term staffers fired, and there was demonstrable financial gain for
her friends. And *now* you want to scream ethics?
> ...your government's violent behaviour outside your own country.
> Now those actions are arrogant.
Another opinion.
> However with regard to carrying concealed weapons that is
> stupid and illegal in most countries.
Yet another opinion.
> So your family is part of the first invasion fleet that conquered the native
> inhabitants with guns and disease yep they did the same thing here.
Yep! Of course, the natives came from somewhere originally, also. They
just invaded first!
> We certainly enjoy a far lower homicide rate than your good selves.
Interesting. The crime rate in rural areas here is quite low, guns and
all. I wonder what statistics you have for the crime rate in a larger
city, like say Sydney, compared to a similarly sized city in the US? And
how the makeup of the population compares to a similar sized US city?
art
> At the risk of becoming an equal-opportunity abuser:
>
> Small town rural America, is different than small towns in other countries.
> The isolation, lack of history, social fabric destruction (result of wanting
> to be "independent" regardless of family or societal obligations,) coupled
> us-vs-them, anti-intellectual bent here.
I do believe I've just been called an ignorant back-woods red-neck, not
smart enough or educated enough to have an intelligent opinion. And you
wonder why I use phrases like "liberal arrogance".
> But after this election, I think it's time a sizable section of this
> country's population recognized that some people are better than they
are.
>At least in minor details like speech, governance, negotiation and
foreign policy.)
Classic liberal elitism. You don't agree with me, you must be ignorant.
Quoting from Wikipedia:
"Elitism is the belief or attitude that those individuals who are
considered members of the elite — a select group of people with
outstanding personal abilities, intellect, wealth, specialized training
or experience, or other distinctive attributes — are those whose views
on a matter are to be taken the most seriously or carry the most weight."
> I think I'll take a break and do some work during the week... good
> back-and-forth...want to restart after the debate?
Something we'll see completely differently, I'm sure! :-)
Art
Peter McMurray
back to work and agree to disagree.
May your God be with you.news:gcvk6i$1k2j$1...@services.telesweet...
Peter McMurray
I am extremely disappointed to see that Chandru's summation of attitudes is
totally backed up by this morning's news. The Republican rallies have
shocked even McCain although hooplehead Palin insists on banging on that
Obama once spoke to a person who demonstrated 40 years ago !! As for the
fruitloop that said Obama is an arab heaven help us if she has a gun in her
bag.
Peter McMurraynews:gcvm0g$1li9$1...@services.telesweet...
art
> ... although hooplehead Palin insists on banging on that Obama once
> spoke to a person who demonstrated 40 years ago !!
helped Obama launch his political career?
> As for the fruitloop that said Obama is an arab heaven help us
I couldn't agree more, she was about as nuts as Rev. Wright, don't you
think? Conservatives certainly don't have a lock on the nut-ball supply.
Art
art
> ... although hooplehead Palin insists on banging on that
You know, Peter, as long as we are being civil to each other, I'm
getting rather tired of your constant character assassination attempts.
It's the same thing the media tried to do to Dan Quayle, and it wasn't
any more accurate then than it is with you now. Traditionally, when a
person's point is weak, they resort to name calling and such. If you
want to make you points on their's own merits, "Governor Palin" will
suffice. I have studiously avoided such name-calling in referring to
Senators Obama and Biden, because I want my arguments to stand on their
own. If one were so inclined, one could point the gaffe a day that
Senator Biden is famous for, such as the wrong president going on TV
during the great depression, when TV's weren't exactly a house-hold item
yet, at least not for a couple of decades yet. That's almost as good as
Gore inventing the internet. And I'll bet Governor Palin as least knows
that she's the Governor of 49th out of 50 states, instead of 57 as
Senator Obama recently commented. You doubt me,
check out www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpGH02DtIws
See, even the liberal candidates can be made to look like blathering
hoopleheads, if you want to cherry pick the sound bites. Stop trying to
belittle those you disagree with, it doesn't help your point of view.
Art
Peter McMurray
It was my intention to drop this topic. My apologies for using the wrong
terms regarding some idiotic comments if they were true it would not be
quite so bad but Governor Palin knows that they are lies.
Anyway I did check the homicide statistics for you. Australia has shown a
significant drop in firearm homicide since the tougher gun laws in 1996.
There was a slight rise in 2003 so we will pick that year
Australia 54 total USA 9565. On a population basis one would have expected
around 600 in the US.
Interestingly the FBI report that the highest numbers by far are handguns
and that the worst cities are those with under 500,000 population a typical
Aussie size. If we pick Philadelphia - The City of Brotherly Love -
slightly smaller than Sydney we get the quote "They just shoot at anything
and everybody, without even looking," and the figure is 6 times that for
the whole of Australia.
Maybe gun laws do work after all!
Peter McMurray
"art" <artm...@triad.rr.com> wrote in message
news:gd0p5r$5ji$1...@services.telesweet...
Tom Phillips
This will either set your teeth on edge or put a smile on your face:
http://www.tom-phillips.info/images.a/sarah.palin.54.htm
Regards, Tom
Jeff Caspari
> shocked even McCain although hooplehead Palin insists on banging on that
> Obama once spoke to a person who demonstrated 40 years ago !!
Are you saying that you believe the 'stoking' that Palin is doing is without
McCain's prior knowledge?
cmu...@seeinggreen.net
> ... although hooplehead Palin insists on banging on that Obama once
> spoke to a person who demonstrated 40 years ago !!
>I'm not quite clear, would that be the domestic terrorist/bomber that
helped Obama launch his political career?
NO. That would be person who hosted a fund-raiser for a newly running
Congressman who had NO prior connection with him. If you shook hands
and talked with a person on the street and they turned out to be a
murderer, would you be an accessory? Please, Art, I don't know how
much of your dis-information you actually believe, but the connection
between Obama and Ayers is much more tenuous than between McCain and
Keating, who actually caused lots of damage.
Further, Ayers has been amply rehabilitated and is now a well-
respected member of the faculty and Chicago society. Further the
"board" on which Obama served briefly with Ayers (have you ever served
on the board of a large non-profit? there may be 50-100 members and
you may not even know the names of all of them) is also connected to
McCain via the board president, Anneberg who is an arch-conservative.
All of which proves f79k-all. That is, nothing!
> As for the fruitloop that said Obama is an arab heaven help us
>I couldn't agree more, she was about as nuts as Rev. Wright, don't you
think? Conservatives certainly don't have a lock on the nut-ball
supply."
Rev. Wright is from a long tradition of fire-and-brimstone (older)
black preachers who have a perfectly legitimate chip on their shoulder
about the disrespect, antagonism, discrimination and harm blacks
suffered (and to a lesser extent, continue to do so) until recently.
Think about this one...the last LYNCHING in the US was in the 50's
(imsr). Think about that...a LYNCH mob within my lifespan (and
Wright's). Speaking to his congregation, what Wright says should be so
considered.
Again, Palin belongs to a radical Pentecostal church where she's laid
hands on (or whatever) by a preacher from Kenya who railroaded a poor
woman for being a Witch. In 2007.
All of which also proves f79k-all.
But if you want to tar Obama with these tenuous connections, do the
same for everybody.
And finally, your comment "I do believe I've just been called an
ignorant back-woods red-neck, not
smart enough or educated enough to have an intelligent opinion. And
you wonder why I use phrases like "liberal arrogance"
No. I said the majority of people in small town, isolated, rural
America are so. About you I said nothing except my direct attacks in
these posts. By your saying "liberal arrogance" you are doing the same
thing. While it might be perfectly OK to apply it to ME (I'm fine with
being called an elitist and and liberal, arrogant or otherwise), it's
the same broad-brush comment you're opposing.
Chandru
>
art
> ... Please, Art, I don't know how
> much of your dis-information you actually believe, but the connection
> between Obama and Ayers is much more tenuous than between McCain and
> Keating, who actually caused lots of damage.
> Rev. Wright is from a long tradition of fire-and-brimstone (older)
> black preachers who have a perfectly legitimate chip on their shoulder
You and I disagree on this one. About the "legitimate" part. If you want
to delve into some of the hate speech this "preacher" spews, and whether
there is any justification for it, we could do so. But that is not a
cess-pool I particularly care to enter, nor am I saying that Senator
Obama marches in lock-step with Rev. Wright.
> Again, Palin belongs to a radical Pentecostal church
In your view, are all Pentecostal churches "radical", or just Governor
Palin's?
where she's laid
> hands on (or whatever) by a preacher from Kenya who railroaded a poor
> woman for being a Witch. In 2007.
I'd like to read more about this. References?
>> you wonder why I use phrases like "liberal arrogance"
> No. I said the majority of people in small town, isolated, rural
> America are so.
What constitutes a small town, isolated, rural? I think I live in a
fairly small town, although it may not be as isolated as you specify.
Most of my family comes from quite small isolated towns in the mountains
of north-central Pennsylvania, and, surprise, surprise, most of them are
fairly liberal! So are we not being just a little prejudiced here?
> About you I said nothing except my direct attacks in
> these posts. By your saying "liberal arrogance" you are doing the same
> thing. While it might be perfectly OK to apply it to ME (I'm fine with
> being called an elitist and and liberal, arrogant or otherwise), it's
> the same broad-brush comment you're opposing.
At least you attacks are direct, and I respect that. Just not your
opinions! ;-)
frosty
> And finally, your comment "I do believe I've just been called an
> ignorant back-woods red-neck, not
> smart enough or educated enough to have an intelligent opinion. And
> you wonder why I use phrases like "liberal arrogance"
Chandru replies:
> No. I said the majority of people in small town, isolated, rural
> America are so.
I live in the most rural, isolated small town in the lower 48.
Check that: I live 8 miles from TMRISTITL48. My experience
differs from yours so I wonder: which RIST were you living in,
Chandru, when you came to this conclusion?
--
frosty
frosty
>> The free availability of guns just makes it easier to maim and kill
>> and otherwise increase the violence. The root causes are elsewhere.
art replied:
> We can agree the root causes are elsewhere. I could never figure out
> how passing laws makes criminals less armed or dangerous. You think
> they give a damn about silly gun-control laws either?
Hell, no, they don't.
I have seen many examples of criminals who don't seem to take their
profession very seriously, and commit crimes without any research into
_any_ of the laws where said crimes were committed. For example, driving
across the border to rob at gunpoint, leaving a state where that crime
would merit five to ten, in favor of a state where it's a capital offence.
Since it's deer season (+ elk season, tomorrow!) everybody out here with
two good legs and a Y chromosome (frosty, included) is out with a 30-06,
.270 or 7mm magnum; a great number carrying sidearms. It's ridiculously
easy (from the POV of an ex-Californian) to get a weapon here, and the
sporting goods stores have arsenals of weapons that are banned in CA.
Yet, oddly, there has never been a murder conviction in my county, and
I've yet to hear of an armed robbery, either. Did I mention it's a
"Shall Issue" State? This might be an eye-opener:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Rtc.gif
I agree that "availability" can be a problem, but I don't agree that
"gun laws" are the solution to that problem.
--
frosty
cmu...@seeinggreen.net
> cmur...@seeinggreen.net wrote:
> > ... Please, Art, I don't know how
> > much of your dis-information you actually believe, but the connection
> > between Obama and Ayers is much more tenuous than between McCain and
> > Keating, who actually caused lots of damage.
>
> This might be worth some further research.
"It’s also important to note that the Senate Ethics Committee, after a
14-month investigation into the Keating Five, largely exonerated
McCain, citing him only for “poor judgment.” [just to show I REALLY
don't think McCain did anything ILLEGAL]
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/side2/6044801.html
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/10/07/1504434.aspx
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/10/06/keating_inquiry_appears_differ.html
Many conservative journals (Financial Times, London,etc., Google
McCain Keating connection.)
*I'M* not making too big a deal of this, it's just I think if Obama is
"connected" to Ayers, McCain is "connected" to Keating5.
> > Rev. Wright is from a long tradition of fire-and-brimstone (older)
> > black preachers who have a perfectly legitimate chip on their shoulder
>
> You and I disagree on this one. About the "legitimate" part. If you want
> to delve into some of the hate speech this "preacher" spews, and whether
> there is any justification for it, we could do so. But that is not a
> cess-pool I particularly care to enter, nor am I saying that Senator
> Obama marches in lock-step with Rev. Wright.
OK
> > Again, Palin belongs to a radical Pentecostal church
>
> In your view, are all Pentecostal churches "radical", or just Governor
> Palin's?
No, and perhaps as a avowedly irreligious person, I should not use
"radical" (I think most churches/mosques/temples whatever are radical
anyway, so it's a non-epithet for me). But Palin's preacher has made
some very strong statements, including that the Iraq war is God's
will etc., which again, may be well within the bounds for a preacher
to his congregation, but what's sauce for the Obama goose should be
sauce for the McCain/Palin gander.
I admit I have been unable to easily find non-liberal news reports on
this issue. Well, WashPo:
http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/undergod/2008/09/palins_new_pastor_problem.html
But if you are willing to read between the liberal lines, there's
still much there:
http://www.alternet.org/election08/97939/weird_theology_in_wasilla:_a_look_inside_sarah_palin's_pentecostal_church/
"Sarah Palin's churches are actively involved in a resurgent movement
that was declared heretical by the Assemblies of God in 1949."
Was all over TV recently. Here's a video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIOD5X68lIs
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/sep/25/sarahpalin.republicans
[admittedly liberal, but respected]
The Christian Science Monitor reported that Muthee, while in Kenya,
led a campaign to find the source of alleged witchcraft after a series
of fatal car accidents in Kiambu. He blamed a local woman called Mama
Jane, who is reported to have been forced to leave.Muthee, in a
promotional video, said: "We prayed, we fasted, the lord showed us a
spirit of witchcraft over the place."
> >> you wonder why I use phrases like "liberal arrogance"
> > No. I said the majority of people in small town, isolated, rural
> > America are so.
>
> What constitutes a small town, isolated, rural? I think I live in a
> fairly small town, although it may not be as isolated as you specify.
> Most of my family comes from quite small isolated towns in the mountains
> of north-central Pennsylvania, and, surprise, surprise, most of them are
> fairly liberal! So are we not being just a little prejudiced here?
Well, from my viewpoint, much, not all, small-town rural America is
predominantly Republican, and therefore "conservative" (in the
political sense.) It's equally valid to say that urban American cites
are hotbeds of liberalism.
Ed Sheehan
news:c54749e0-dd4c-45f9...@h2g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
<snip
>
> Further, Ayers has been amply rehabilitated and is now a well-
> respected member of the faculty and Chicago society.
<snip>
If you believe that, you're either truly evil or are willfully ignoring
virtually every news report that shows he's un-repentant still, and
connected to very radical "early learning" efforts that, (if you have
children), would make you run the other way as fast as you can.
Surely you can't be that disconnected...
Ed
art
> On Oct 14, 11:07 am, art <artma...@triad.rr.com> wrote:
>> cmur...@seeinggreen.net wrote:
>>> ... Please, Art, I don't know how
>>> much of your dis-information you actually believe, but the connection
>>> between Obama and Ayers is much more tenuous than between McCain and
>>> Keating, who actually caused lots of damage.
of one big difference between Senators Obama and McCain on this issue.
Senator Obama has never once, that I am aware of, come out and said I
should not have done that. McCain, to his credit, has. Quoting him
directly: "I was judged eventually, after three years, of using, quote,
poor judgment, and I agree with that assessment."
If Senator Obama were to do the same, he could defuse a lot of
criticism. BTW, let's not forget the other Senator that was found to
have also showed poor judgment in connection with Keating, that would be
the Democrat Senator from Ohio, John Glenn.
> Well, from my viewpoint, much, not all, small-town rural America is
> predominantly Republican, and therefore "conservative" (in the
> political sense.) It's equally valid to say that urban American cites
> are hotbeds of liberalism.
Here in the Carolinas, your are more right than wrong. Ohio, where I
lived, it's more of an even mix, in my opinion. Pennsylvania, I think
you are completely off base. IMHO.
art
I think that is a mis-quote. "The Republican rallies have
shocked even McCain", in reference to the little old lady, among others,
would probably be more accurate. Obama doesn't allow such free and open
rallies, which of course, carry an element of risk with them. I wonder
what sound bites an Obama rally in Rev. Wright's church would yield, for
example?
Art
Jeff Caspari
such fervor are intentional provocations under the auspices of McCain.
"art" <artm...@triad.rr.com> wrote in message
news:gd2js1$2lt5$1...@services.telesweet...
cmu...@seeinggreen.net
> <cmur...@seeinggreen.net> wrote in message
Hmm, can't find info on this...can you cite? I find commentators
railing on against teaching children "climate change etc" What
exactly is he teaching that's so bad?
> Surely you can't be that disconnected...
>
> Ed
Ayer's famous "don't regret" statement is famously taken out of
context, as he meant it of the anti-war protest, not the specific
actions of bombing. Regardless, not that he was a nice guy or
anything, the fact that he's a distinguished professor of social
studies, works with mayor Daley and is well respected in general in a
city not known for tolerance, must mean *something*. Maybe it means
that "Christian" forgiveness can be found in the oddest places, but
not in the most avowedly Christian of political parties. After all,
former IRA bomber Gerry Adams is welcomed at the White House as a
peacemaker, no? And former Black Panther Bobby Rush is an elected
representative? When does the statute of limitations expire?
Chandru
Ed Sheehan
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F02E1DE1438F932A2575AC0A9679C8B63
On education:
http://prairiepundit.blogspot.com/2008/10/obama-ayers-education-agenda.html
http://www.floppingaces.net/2008/10/06/obama-ayers-education-activism-for-social-injustice/
http://www.kennethgdavenport.com/2008/10/real-ayers-danger-education-radicalism.html
"Hmm, can't find info on this" What?
Info is not hard to find on Ayers. In his own words.
Ed
<cmu...@seeinggreen.net> wrote in message
news:8d1be803-22a3-4707...@u27g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
cmu...@seeinggreen.net
> On terror:http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F02E1DE1438F932A2575A...
>
> On education:http://prairiepundit.blogspot.com/2008/10/obama-ayers-education-agend...http://www.floppingaces.net/2008/10/06/obama-ayers-education-activism...http://www.kennethgdavenport.com/2008/10/real-ayers-danger-education-...
>
> "Hmm, can't find info on this" What?
>
> Info is not hard to find on Ayers. In his own words.
>
> Ed
I was wrong on Ayer's out-of-contextness. He did say he didn't regret
setting the bombs.
On education (from the links, remembering these are the anti-Ayers
sites)
1) "Ayers makes this very clear in all his writings. K-12 teachers, he
has written, must teach "for social justice and liberation" - making
classrooms into centers for creating revolutionary change."
If you contextualize the loaded word "revolutionary" which can be
construed many ways, not all of them evil, why is this bad?
2)" Ayers argues that education can't be separated from "the concept
of politics and political change." Urban schools are now merely
preparing students "for prison, for unemployment and for war. So, to
create a genuine "progressive" education for our children, teachers
must work to overturn the repressive, racist and imperialist system
that governs the United States; it is imperative to fight "the most
reactionary cabal of ideologues" that control the federal government
and the media."
Sounds just a little over-the-top to me---but it's just political
rhetoric very like what I tell my son.
3) He bashes what he calls “market metaphors” used in education…
pushing the “ownership society” and “excellence”. And calls No Child
Left behind a “lovely mask” for a “vicious policy”.
Still on message; don't agree on discounting "excellence" (lack
thereof got us Palin); NCL is attacked regularly even by quite
conservative pundits.
Thanks, Ed, I now know more about Ayer's "radical" education policy
(as described by right-wingers) and, I'm sorry to say, it's a straw
man. Much modernist deconstruction jargon, a little left-wing
philosophy, some anti-capitalism and lots of guilt about racism. Not
that I agree with all of it, but it's hardly what I'd keep my V-grader
away from.
Look, schools are propaganda machines, and have been right-leaning
normally (except in NYC, you'd probably consider some of the stuff
like reading, in 8th-grade, Fist, Stick, Knife, Gun, Geoffrey Canada's
memoir of growing up in the South Bronx, and discussing the statement
"violence is a learned behavior": "radical" ) so I can't be too
alarmed.
I think the real reason for this vitriol comes from Ayers describing
himself as a "radical, leftist, small ‘c’ communist”, which is like
waving a red flag in front of a bull in this country. Maybe the man
ain't that smart after all.
Chandru
Ed Sheehan
But keep your eyes open. There is a new book out which ties Obama to Ayers
thru Ayers' education initiative, and it's very scary. I just heard the
interview with the author this morning. If I see it again, I'll cite it, but
I'm not going to be responsible for your willful ignorance on this subject
just because I didn't cite every article to your satisfaction. Your
predisposition to far left ideology seems to keep you in the dark, and if
you're saying some of these "a little over the top" things to your son, I
fear for your son.
For clarity's sake, I think the Repubs blew it big time these last 8 years.
They're not conservative. They're burning the constitution with a Zippo, and
the Dems/Libs are using a blowtorch.
Ed
<cmu...@seeinggreen.net> wrote in message
news:ae492f4f-4e89-4adf...@a18g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
art
> Look, schools are propaganda machines, and have been right-leaning
Chandru, you've *GOT* to be kidding me!! School's are right-leaning
propaganda machines?? *What* have you been putting in your coffee??
School's these days are so far left, that if that looks right to you, I
am amazed!!
Art
ME
http://www.gunfacts.info/pdfs/gun-facts/5.0/GunFacts5-0-screen.pdf
You will find that 99% of the Crap used to support gun control is BS.
These facts are gathered from all over the world.
Peter McMurray
I understand that I fall into the US category of Liberal so I am quite
bemused at the lengths that Republicans will go to denigrate people with a
conscience who actually try and think their way through a subject and come
up with a genuine decent response instead of jumping on the "Do as I Do or I
will shoot you" bandwagon.
After 35 years of marriage to a woman with a better degree than myself, I
only have a single major whereas she has a double, I can still remember the
words we chose at the wedding instead of the trad "Love, Honour and Obey".
We chose " Like two pillars of the temple that stand together yet apart" and
yes we still share everything including our political views, bank accounts
and our software and farming businesses.
Governor Palin horrifies us with her violent approach and her complete
failure to grasp the world outside her own backyard, her sex has absolutely
no influence on the issue. Germaine Greer produced "The Female Eunuch" 40
years ago, apparently it is still topical in Republican land although all
others have moved on. Unfortunately McCain is known to be ill, and if
chosen he will hand over to her pretty quickly - an horrific thought given
the damage President George W has managed.
Peter McMurray
PS Thanks for the Pick Tools. Have your ever looked at your namesakes site?
Somewhat different I feel.
"Tom Phillips" <squ...@computer.org> wrote in message
news:eb486483-7094-439d...@m73g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
Douglas Tatelman
normal points of reference are long gone.
cmu...@seeinggreen.net
By which I mean they are authoritarian in principle, promote rote
learning, lean heavily on standardized testing so that teachers "teach
to the test," (especially after No Child Left Behind) and discourage
free expression. What's with the reciting the Pledge, for instance?
Thankfully in my son's school there's a don't see don't complain
policy and most kids ignore the daily recant, though teachers do stand
somewhat at attention. There are those who claim that public school in
the US is based on a Prussian model which is mean to turn out mindless
proles, but even I would not go so far.
Even in very-liberal NYC, the "great" middle schools are touting how
they are different from the norm, letting kids be free, etc. and these
are the hard-to-get-into ones (I know, we're scouting these our for
Dylan.) I grew up in India, and thanks to the Brits, was schooled in a
quasi-"public school" (British use of the term) where memorization was
guaranteed a spot in the top ten. I had a good memory, but a
rebellious nature, so I did make it through, but I would not recommend
it.
Chandru
> Art
art
> Governor Palin horrifies us with her violent approach and her complete
> failure to grasp the world outside her own backyard
You have the floor. Make your case. Just don't expect me to accept
unchallenged assumptions on your part.
Art
Jeff Caspari
At least you didn't say she is 'drop-dead gorgeous', as Biden did. When
candidates extol the physical virtues of their spouses it exposes their own
view of what's most relevant to them and that is quite revealing.
Jeff
cmu...@seeinggreen.net
The only people "challenging" these "assumptions" are the Palin Peanut
Gallery (tm).
OK what part of "failure to grasp the world outside" don't you agree
with? She can't name a newspaper/magazine, she can't name a Supreme
court ruling, she's supposed to be an "energy expert" and constantly
gets her figures on Alaskan oil/gas wrong, she can barely string a
dozen words coherently even though she's got a journalism degree,
she's not well-traveled, etc etc.
The violence she incites perhaps can be excused by the dubious
statement "she's not responsible for the nutjob's screaming 'kill
him'," so I'll even cede that point to you. Stop it Peter, she's got
the milk of human kindness flowing by the quart in her veins.
Chandru
cmu...@seeinggreen.net
Biden is an old-fashioned older guy and phrases like that are his
language. If his wife had said of him "my handsome husband," would you
read much into it?
art
> The only people "challenging" these "assumptions" are the Palin Peanut
> Gallery (tm).
experienced one is up to bat first. Oh, wait a minute, I forgot,
Governor Palin *is* the one with executive experience! The president
does head the *executive* branch, not the legislative branch. It's a
good thing McCain has somebody with real-world experience running things
on his ticket, isn't it?
> OK what part of "failure to grasp the world outside" don't you agree
> with? She can't name a newspaper/magazine, she can't name a Supreme
> court ruling, she's supposed to be an "energy expert" and constantly
> gets her figures on Alaskan oil/gas wrong
Shall we discuss specifics? References?
>, she can barely string a
> dozen words coherently even though she's got a journalism degree,
I thought she's done a quite good job, except for the Kuric interview.
And it's legitimate to ask, how much of the interview that was actually
broadcast were the cherry-picked moments, to spin it a certain way?
Charlie surprised me with the attack-mode interview, though. I didn't
think it was like him.
> she's not well-traveled, etc etc.
OK, her trip to the Iraq/Kuwait border to meet with the Alaska National
Guard wasn't an in-depth Iraq tour. And Obama's guest appearance at a
rock-concert in Berlin makes him a foreign-policy expert? Please!
Art
art
> On Oct 14, 5:51 pm, art <artma...@triad.rr.com> wrote:
>>> Look, schools are propaganda machines, and have been right-leaning
> learning, lean heavily on standardized testing so that teachers "teach
> to the test," (especially after No Child Left Behind) and discourage
> free expression.
supposed to know by that point. Teachers teach to the test? Instead of
social promotions? Well, it's about time! Maybe we can graduate kids
that actually know something and have some useful skills! Free
expression is fine, once there's a solid foundation to base it on.
> What's with the reciting the Pledge, for instance?
I call it a good thing.
Art
Jeff Caspari
> language. If his wife had said of him "my handsome husband," would you
> read much into it?
Yes.
Labeling him as an old-fashioned older guy as an explanation for his phrases
means it likely extends to his other views.
BTW, it won't stop me from voting for him, just less enthusiatically.
cmu...@seeinggreen.net
> cmur...@seeinggreen.net wrote:
> > The only people "challenging" these "assumptions" are the Palin Peanut
> > Gallery (tm).
>
> Back to form, I see. At least with the McCain/Palin ticket, the more
> experienced one is up to bat first. Oh, wait a minute, I forgot,
> Governor Palin *is* the one with executive experience! The president
> does head the *executive* branch, not the legislative branch. It's a
> good thing McCain has somebody with real-world experience running things
> on his ticket, isn't it?
>
> > OK what part of "failure to grasp the world outside" don't you agree
> > with? She can't name a newspaper/magazine, she can't name a Supreme
> > court ruling, she's supposed to be an "energy expert" and constantly
> > gets her figures on Alaskan oil/gas wrong
>
> Shall we discuss specifics? References?
WORDS (and silences).
> >, she can barely string a
> > dozen words coherently even though she's got a journalism degree,
>
> I thought she's done a quite good job, except for the Kuric interview.
> And it's legitimate to ask, how much of the interview that was actually
> broadcast were the cherry-picked moments, to spin it a certain way?
> Charlie surprised me with the attack-mode interview, though. I didn't
> think it was like him.
If you really think she did a good job, your standards are below zero.
She's a parrot, as John Cleese said famously (and no, I don't have the
reference handy), she's an actor who can mouth lines and read off the
teleprompter (she had to have words like nuclear phonetically shown as
"new-clear", and yes, that was on NATIONAL TV of the R. convention).
Look, I am totally against her, but Ive given up talking about her
opinions and values at all, as that is completely subjective and
there's no way I can change your mind. What I have said, and you
refuse to see, are FACTS, VIDEO on national TV, WRITTEN stuff,
DOCUMENTED evidence.
This is the death by a thousand cuts. This is like the Palin
methodology, where she repeats a lie (in your case it's a refusal to
accept) in the face of written/documented evidence, there's not much
the other person can do about it.
Chandru
Tom Phillips
> PS Thanks for the Pick Tools. Have your ever looked at your namesakes site?
You're welcome. I'm still convinced that in order to get the newer
crowd to use the product, we need to provide some help & guidance -
and free stuff doesn't hurt.
Curious who you think my "namesake" is?
Also, I have a legal vote to cast in SC this November.
I'm curious how many others expressing opinions about Sarah can also
cast a legal vote.
Oh well - life sure is diverse. (wasn't that a line of sorts by Mr.
Spock?)
Tom
art
> Look, I am totally against her, but Ive given up talking about her
> opinions and values at all, as that is completely subjective and
> there's no way I can change your mind. What I have said, and you
> refuse to see
After the debate, then.
Art
art
> Also, I have a legal vote to cast in SC this November.
> I'm curious how many others expressing opinions about Sarah can also
> cast a legal vote.
Count me in. Somebody's got to cancel out Chandru! :-)
the Moderator
"Peter McMurray" <excal...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:VguIk.4998$sc2....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> Hi Art
> I have on occasion been quite bemused by a dedicated right wing that is
> quite incapable of comprehending facts that disprove their beliefs - one
> can hardly call them arguments as that implies reasoned discussion.
> FACT - Scotland is part of Great Britain and was so in 1780.
> FACT - The place currently known as the USA was a British colony in 1780
> and therefore its inhabitants were subjects of the British King .
> FACT - Gun controls work extremely well in countries with the common sense
> to implement them for example: Britain (England, Northern Ireland, Wales
> and Scotland), Switzerland ( Maintains a militia), Australia, New Zealand
> etc.
> FACT - I probably know more about small towns than your good self as I
> have lived and worked in the remote settlements of New Zealand South
> Island; 1960's mining camps in North Western Australia; and currently live
> in a state with a population of under 500,000, with my own village
> contributing at least 350 to that number :-)
> FACT - Palin went to great lengths to harass her brother-in-law because
> her little sister fell out with him. This is gross misconduct.
> FACT - A social conscience does not constitute arrogance. The use of the
> term liberal is even more confusing as in Australia that has been taken by
> the conservative party so loses any significance in this case, although I
> am sure that the extreme right of that party is still left of what you
> call for.
> Interest - When did your family go to America? Judging by your name they
> are from Germany but back then that was nothing like it is today. In fact
> one of my wife's family went to NZ to avoid the wars of the mid 19th
> century perhaps yours did the same :-) Maybe we should resurrect the
> Austro-Hungarian empire :-)
> Good luck
> Peter McMurray> news:gcrokc$2u7f$1...@services.telesweet...
>> Peter McMurray wrote:
>>> Hi Art
>>> You surely can confuse yourself.
>> Not at all. Just because Scotland has had it's own civil wars with the
>> British, what's that got to do with the facts about King's mountain?
>>
>>> I pointed out that the cause of the crime was poverty, I totally support
>>> gun laws. However when Washington is surrounded by crazy states that
>>> happily supply hand guns to all and sundry it is difficult to stop
>>> criminals using Uzis, one can however reduce the domestic violence
>>> figures and give the cops a bit of a chance.
>> Gun controls are a feel-good band-aid on the symptoms, not a fix for the
>> problem.
>>
>>> As for Palin, well you dream up whatever conspiracy theories you like
>>> but do try and check your facts. She was under investigation BEFORE she
>>> was put forward as VP, and yes she is guilty of gross misconduct, albeit
>>> typical small town behavior.
>> Typical liberal arrogance. You think I was unaware of the muck-raking
>> well before this? And I am from a typical small town. You? And the
>> "guilty of gross misconduct", since that was not in the report, where did
>> you make it up from?
>> Quoting directing from the report: "I find that, although Walt Monegan's
>> refusal to fire Trooper Michael Wooten was not the sole reason he was
>> fired by Governor Sarah Palin, it was likely a contributing factor to his
>> termination as Commissioner of Public Safety. In spite of that, Governor
>> Palin's firing of Commissioner Monegan was a proper and lawful exercise
>> of her constitutional and statutory authority to hire and fire executive
>> branch department heads."
alt.politics called. They are missing a couple zealots. Go home.
Peter McMurray
Try www.Tom-Phillips.com He works for the BBC. I have been harangued by
both a SanDiego Republican and a New York Republican for describing the BBC
as a good news service. However he is also an Arsenal supporter which is
bad :-) OOps! I haven't made my thoughts known on that topic. I naturally
support Aussie Rules and The Major Team is of course COLLINGWOOD, in the
round ball game aka soccer it is of course Aston Villa, the good old Claret
and Blue. American Football is a known unknown, decidedly weird and
unintelligible :-)
I am glad that you intend to at least cast a vote that does show some
interest that I believe a large proportion of the US population do not.
As I have said in previous posts I would have no comment at all on the US
vote if it did not affect the rest of the world so dramatically. Mr Biden
does have a good grounding in foreign policy and therefore complements Mr
Obama's experience whereas Ms Clinton's experience is along the same lines
as Mr Obama's which is why she was not chosen. Mr McCain on the other hand
is a strong supporter of the US aggression world wide that has caused so
much grief, and Ms Palin is on record as an isolationist (impossible given
globalisation and world cash flows) even an Alaskan secessionist with
extreme views ranging from gun laws through anti-environmental attitudes to
fundamentalist religion. Funnily enough I really could not care less what
sex the President or Vice president or the Australian Prime Minister is so
long as they are rational thinkers with a blend of responsibility for
mankind in general rather than just the right wing fat cats supported by the
current US regime.
Peter McMurray
"Tom Phillips" <squ...@computer.org> wrote in message
news:d31d658f-cfc0-4600...@64g2000hsm.googlegroups.com...
art
> alt.politics called. They are missing a couple zealots. Go home.
New Yorks schools! Oh well, I surprised nobody before now pointed out
this has nothing to do with JavaScript Tutorial. Only two zealots? He
must be talking about Pete and Chandru! ;-)
(I know, I resemble that remark!)
Art
frosty
> ...Oh well, I surprised nobody before now pointed out
> this has nothing to do with JavaScript Tutorial.
Look again.
--
frosty
Bill_H
Pleeeeeaaaaaaasssssssseeeeeee... Stop arguing with aparachiks Stalin
referred to as "useful idiots". This thread has gone long enough.
When Tony Gravagno is accused of being arrogant by these people we all
know where this is going. :-)
Bill