CD-ROM Manuals
fgr...@hayes.com
available on CD-ROM. I do not know the answer to the specific question,
but I would like to suggest to the group in general AND ORACLE SPECIFICALLY
that ALL documentation should be made available in CD-ROM format.
Probably the biggest head ache I face is trying to stay current on the
documentation. Having a valid library with a concomitant update service
and subscription would be a god send in my development efforts.
I realize that the publication and sale of manuals is a major profit center
for Oracle (have you looked at the puiblications catalog prices lately),
but I would think that if they take the long range view of their product it
would be to their advantage to have current and accurate manuals in the
hands of every user and potential user.
Suggestions? Comments? Are you there, Oracle?
David Bath
Jeez, if they were feeling that friendly they could archive them in ASCII
on the net and post diff patches via a mailing list :-)
--
David T. Bath | Email:d...@otto.bf.rmit.oz.au (131.170.40.10)
Senior Tech Consultant | Phone: +61 3 347-7511 TZ=AEST-10AEDST-11
Global Technology Group | 179 Grattan St, Carlton, Vic, 3153, AUSTRALIA
"The robber of your free will does not exist" - Epictetus
Russ Seligman
>fgr...@hayes.com writes:
>>Earlier today there wasa posting which asked if Oracle documentation was
>>available on CD-ROM. I do not know the answer to the specific question,
>>but I would like to suggest to the group in general AND ORACLE SPECIFICALLY
>>that ALL documentation should be made available in CD-ROM format.
>>
>>Probably the biggest head ache I face is trying to stay current on the
>>documentation. Having a valid library with a concomitant update service
>>and subscription would be a god send in my development efforts.
>>
>>I realize that the publication and sale of manuals is a major profit center
>>for Oracle (have you looked at the puiblications catalog prices lately),
>>but I would think that if they take the long range view of their product it
>>would be to their advantage to have current and accurate manuals in the
>>hands of every user and potential user.
>>
>>Suggestions? Comments? Are you there, Oracle?
>
> Jeez, if they were feeling that friendly they could archive them in ASCII
> on the net and post diff patches via a mailing list :-)
Well, not quite *that* friendly. But let me head off another round of
Oracle-bashing by saying that we've been working very hard on online doc. Many
products have aleady had online doc as part of their alpha and beta
distributions. In addition, all of the tools (Forms, Reports, Graphics, and
Book) will have online doc available. I've also heard talk -- but I know
little -- about CD-ROM distribution.
And speaking of "long range views," ours is to eliminate printed doc and
distribute all of it online.
--Russ Seligman
Doumentation Project Leader
Oracle Graphics
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
Russ Seligman "If there's nothing wrong with me, then there
Oracle Corporation must be something wrong with the universe."
rsel...@oracle.com --Beverly Crusher, ST:TNG
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
MJW/TWF
>In article <dtb.733043255@otto> dtb@otto (David Bath) writes:
>
>>fgr...@hayes.com writes:
>
>And speaking of "long range views," ours is to eliminate printed doc and
>distribute all of it online.
>
>--Russ Seligman
> Doumentation Project Leader
> Oracle Graphics
A noble goal - however, please look around the industry at products
which tried to do this (Microsoft Language products, for instance),
only to find a customer backlash. Online docs should be available as
an alternative, but not a replacement, to printed documentation.
Mark
Shiraz Kanga
And there is also an effort within worldwide support to create a CD of
all the RTSS bulletins.
Shiraz
--
Shiraz Kanga (ska...@oracle.com) Tel: (415)506-5412 Fax: (415)506-7822
Analyst -- Desktop Tools Group -- Worldwide Technical Support -- 3OP11
Oracle Corporation 500 Oracle Pkwy, MS 659311, Redwood Shores CA 94065
"I work for Oracle - I speak and type (over here at least) for myself"
Tony Jambu
In article <RSELIGMA.93...@seinfeld.oracle.com>, rsel...@oracle.com
(Russ Seligman) writes:>
.
.
Stuff deleted
.
.
> And speaking of "long range views," ours is to eliminate printed doc and
> distribute all of it online.
Try to imagine the following scenario. Your server has had a disk crash and
your
database needs media recovery. You look for the online doco and it is on the
same disk that crased!
I guess Oracle would distribute it on CD-ROM and then it would not be a
problem.
I would like to suggest to Oracle that WHEN (not IF) the start to distribute
their documentation on-line, they include a hard copy of the DBA manuals with
the
base product.
--
_____ ________ / ____ |Tony Jambu, Database Administrator
/_ __ /_ __ / |Colonial Mutual Invest Mgmt,Aust (ACN 004021809)
/(_)/ ((_/ \_/(///(/_)/_( |EMAIL: TJa...@cmutual.com.au
\_______/ |PHONE: +61-3-6418448 FAX: +61-3-6076198
fgr...@hayes.com
> on the net and post diff patches via a mailing list :-)
> --
> David T. Bath | Email:d...@otto.bf.rmit.oz.au (131.170.40.10)
> Senior Tech Consultant | Phone: +61 3 347-7511 TZ=AEST-10AEDST-11
> Global Technology Group | 179 Grattan St, Carlton, Vic, 3153, AUSTRALIA
> "The robber of your free will does not exist" - Epictetus
Another good point for Dave. Actually, I suggested to Oracle several years
ago that they should include a complete set of ASCII manuals in every
release tape but. like most outside suggestions to them, this one also sunk
quietly out of sight.
Frank Greene
Russ Seligman
"long range" plan, so those of you who sent me mail about this round of
releases need not worry. However, I do believe that in the next few years
there will be a reduced need for software companies to distribute printed
documentation.
Try these scenarios:
You get the doc, and you want a printed copy.
Now: do nothing, because the company already supplies printed doc.
Future: print it yourself. (Reduced cost.)
You only really need a few pages printed.
Now: too bad. You're stuck with a 700 page book.
Future: print only the pages you need. (Increased convenience.)
You want to make some extra copies.
Now: bend the book at the spine, and get a nice copy machine tan. Or, you
can always just buy more copies from the company.
Future: print what you need.
I use my online doc almost exclusively, and I believe that as more people get
used to it, that will become the norm.
--Russ Seligman
Documentation Project Leader
Joel Garry
By R. J. Heathorn (* PUNCH, May 9, 1962)
A new aid to rapid--almost magical--learning has made its appearance. Indications
are that if it catches on all the electronic gadgets will be so much junk.
The new device is known as Built-in Orderly Organized Knowledge. The makers
generally call it by its initials, BOOK.
Many advantages are claimed over the old-style learning and teaching aids
on which most people are brought up nowadays. It has no wires, no electric
circuit to break down. No connection is needed to an electricity power point.
It is made entirely without mechanical parts to go wrong or need replacement.
Anyone can use BOOK, even children, and it fits comfortably into the hands.
It can be conveniently used sitting in an armchair by the fire.
How does this revoluntionary, unbelievably easy invention work? Basically
BOOK consists only of a large number of paper sheets. These may run to hundreds
where BOOK covers a lengthy programme of information. Each sheet bears a
number in sequence, so that the sheets cannot be used in the wrong order.
To make it even easier for the user to keep the sheets in the proper order
they are held firmly in place by a special locking device called a "binding".
Each sheet of paper presents the user with an information sequence in the
form of symbols, which he absorbs optically for automatic registration on
the brain. When one sheet has been assimilated a flick of the finger turns
it over and further information is found on the other side.
By using both sides of each sheet in this way a great economy is effected,
thus reducing both the size and cost of BOOK. No buttons need to be pressed
to move from one sheet to another, to open or close BOOK, or to start it working.
BOOK may be taken up at any time and used by merely opening it. Instantly
it is ready for use. Nothing has to be connected up or switched on. The user
may turn at will to any sheet, going backwards or forwards as he pleases.
A sheet is provided near the beginnning as a location finder for any required
information sequence.
A small accessory, available at trifling extra cost, is the BOOKmark. This
enables the user to pick up his programme where he left off on the previous
learning session. BOOKmark is versatile and may be used in any BOOK.
The initial cost varies with the size and subject matter. Already a vast
range of BOOKs is available, covering every conceivable subject and adjusted
to different levels of aptitude. One BOOK, small enough to be held in the
hands, may contain an entire learning schedule.
Once purchased, BOOK requires no further upkeep cost; no batteries or wires
are needed, since the motive power, thanks to an ingenious device patented
by the makers, is supplied by the brain of the user.
BOOKs may be stored on handy shelves and for ease of reference the programme
schedule is normally indicated on the back of the binding.
Altogether the Built-in Orderly Organized Knowledge seems to have great advantages
with no drawbacks. We predict a big future for it.
--------------------------------
A Boss' response:
BOOK* does not, in spite of the claims, seem "to have great advantages with no
drawbacks". Soon, it probably won't even be legal. Consider:
"It can be conveniently used sitting in an armchair by the fire." Being paper, it
might burn in the fire. Probably fire laws in most locations wouldn't allow its
use there. Worse, such a device, which encourages close proximity of the user
to fire, will be outlawed by OSHA's request.
"Each sheet bears a number in sequence, so that the sheets cannot be used in the
wrong order." How quaint; to think that the programmer (author) would be
allowed to turn over such an important task to the user! "cannot" is clearly
misuse; any user could incorrectly turn to the wrong page. A proper user
interface might correct that, of course, such as requiring that each sheet be torn
off to expose the next. This is a clear conflict with "The user may turn at will to
any sheet, going backwards or forwards as he pleases." and "BOOKs may be
stored on handy shelves and for ease of reference". The user interface obviously
needs more work before such a system can be practical.
"the motive power -- is supplied by the brain of the user". Clearly, the
inventors have not examined recent trends. No serious person would suggest
even expecting a "user" to have a brain present, much less to use it so
continuously.
I'd suggest the inventors return to their consoles and do a thorough associative
search of various data banks, like the rest of us, and forget this nonsense.
--
"See your System Administrator?" I *AM* the #%@!?& System Administrator!
INTERNET: tumi...@netlink.cts.com (Joel Garry)
UUCP: ...!ryptyde!netlink!tumidity
Joel Garry
> Try these scenarios:
>
> You get the doc, and you want a printed copy.
> Now: do nothing, because the company already supplies printed doc.
> Future: print it yourself. (Reduced cost.)
In some places, particularly government shops, there may be a long lag
time between ordering something and getting it. So discovering you are
low on toner may mean a decision between printing the manual and letting
the users do their work.
Manuals disappear.
>
> You only really need a few pages printed.
> Now: too bad. You're stuck with a 700 page book.
> Future: print only the pages you need. (Increased convenience.)
Print the pages you need, after the 5000 pages the users are printing are
done. Then print a few more. Then reprint the original pages, because
they are buried in the pile of stapled together pages of the manual
sections you printed, and you couldn't find them digging through the
pile. Throw out the pile because you know you haven't looked through it
in six months, and do it all over again. Then try to convince the people
who are printing out the entire manual they can do it online.
>
> You want to make some extra copies.
> Now: bend the book at the spine, and get a nice copy machine tan. Or, y
> can always just buy more copies from the company.
> Future: print what you need.
printing is more expensive than copying. What about copyright?
And, as above, you may not be able to buy from the company.
>
> I use my online doc almost exclusively, and I believe that as more people get
> used to it, that will become the norm.
>
Give me a big-screen sparcstation everywhere I go, and I still could use
a manual. Paper has a larger information bandwidth than computer
screens. Printers are mechanical devices and you never know when they
won't work.
John Peach
Whilst I agree that I would rather see the documentation on CD-ROM, Oracle _can_
provide documentation in copiable format - we get it in A4 loose-leaf format and
can then copy those bits which anyone needs....
The real problem with this is that it seems to take Oracle much longer to provide
it in this form.
--
John Peach
Chevron (UK) Ltd.
Ninian House, Crawpeel Road, Altens, Aberdeen, AB1 4LG, Scotland.
Internet: ep...@aberdeen.chevron.com Phone: +44 224 242637
Michael Friedman
>rsel...@oracle.com (Russ Seligman) writes:
>> Try these scenarios:
>> You get the doc, and you want a printed copy.
>> Now: do nothing, because the company already supplies printed doc.
>> Future: print it yourself. (Reduced cost.)
>In some places, particularly government shops, there may be a long lag
>time between ordering something and getting it. So discovering you are
>low on toner may mean a decision between printing the manual and letting
>the users do their work.
>Manuals disappear.
Note that in this case you would have just as much trouble ordering a
paper copy of the manual. This objection seems to apply equally well
to traditional and electronic manuals, except that with the electronic
manual at least you can read it online.
Paul Nakada
Here's an interesting side note. I've always viewed paper
documentaion as a protection against amatuer software piracy. By
making the documentaion hard to copy, you make the software more
difficult to use.
On the other hand, others (sales people for instance) may view online
documentaion as an easy means of copying the documentation. The more
people using the products the better, because, especially in critical
production level database applications, support is the most critical
service supplied.
Just look at the GNU/Cygnus relationship. Software is freely copied,
with online documentation, and support is supplied for a fee.
my $.02
--
Paul Nakada | Oracle Corporation | pna...@oracle.com
DoD #7773 | '91 R100C | '90 K75S
fgr...@hayes.com
The whole point of this discussion is that ANY form of mechanical document
distribution is inherently slow and error prone. Page replacements in
large, complex technical manuals are almost never done correctly, even
assuming that the distributuion is correct (any (former) military types out
there? Remember the dash one manuals?)
No, no. The only efficient solution to documenting a rapidly changing, widely
utilized technical product is some form of electronic distribution where the
vendor posts changes directly into the manual(s) and then redistributes (or
sells) the updated version.
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