Oracle Support is next to useless !
Dan I. Nichols
I can't believe that I'm the only one who experiences this...
Everytime I have a need to call Oracle support, the same thing happens.
I'll get hold of an analyst (after 20 minutes of listing to classical music on hold - toll call yet !)
The analyst will dutifully take down, verbatum, my description of the problem, then claim to have need to
talk to an "expert". The analyst will promise to call me back, then nothing...for days, weeks, months.
I have a TAR open that was opened in July of 1995. I get absolutely no response from them. If I call
back, the analyst is never there, and I'm prompted to leave a message.
If I call and rant and rave and complain, I'll get a duty manager who will apologize, and say that they have
been unusually busy lately, and promise to reassign the TAR to another analyst.
The new analyst will call...dutifully take down, verbatum, my description of the problem...and the whole thing
starts over again.
This pattern exists for Oracle Applications issues, tools, DBMS, et al...
So...I ask you my fellow Oracle professionals. Is this just the nature of the beast ?
Any suggestions...Am I supposed to offer bribes ?
-Dan
U19...@uicvm.uic.edu
Dan I. Nichols <dan.n...@sandiegoca.attgis.com>
> I can't believe that I'm the only one who experiences this...
>
> Everytime I have a need to call Oracle support, the same thing happens.
>
> I'll get hold of an analyst (after 20 minutes of listing to classical music on
>
>
>
> If I call and rant and rave and complain, I'll get a duty manager who will apo
>
>
> This pattern exists for Oracle Applications issues, tools, DBMS, et al...
>
> So...I ask you my fellow Oracle professionals. Is this just the nature of the
>
> -Dan
>
I have dealt with Sun, Ingres and PowerSoft tech. support, I say Oracle
is the worst so far.
Owen Crowley
In article <4lrkor$8...@rap.SanDiegoCA.ATTGIS.COM>, Dan I. Nichols
<dan.n...@sandiegoca.attgis.com> wrote:
> I can't believe that I'm the only one who experiences this...
> ...
> The analyst will dutifully take down, verbatum, my description of the
problem, then claim to have need to
> talk to an "expert". The analyst will promise to call me back, then
nothing...for days, weeks, months.
I've experienced this much of the time, all though I have also experienced
prompt help from really good analysts.
The best help for non-emergencies is here in this newsgroup. More often
than no, the people with insight on my questions have have *.oracle.com
email addresses.
Mike Openshaw
Dan I. Nichols <dan.n...@sandiegoca.attgis.com> wrote:
>I can't believe that I'm the only one who experiences this...
>Everytime I have a need to call Oracle support, the same thing happens.
>I'll get hold of an analyst (after 20 minutes of listing to classical music on hold - toll call yet !)
>The analyst will dutifully take down, verbatum, my description of the problem, then claim to have need to
>talk to an "expert". The analyst will promise to call me back, then nothing...for days, weeks, months.
>I have a TAR open that was opened in July of 1995. I get absolutely no response from them. If I call
>back, the analyst is never there, and I'm prompted to leave a message.
>If I call and rant and rave and complain, I'll get a duty manager who will apologize, and say that they have
>been unusually busy lately, and promise to reassign the TAR to another analyst.
>The new analyst will call...dutifully take down, verbatum, my description of the problem...and the whole thing
>starts over again.
>This pattern exists for Oracle Applications issues, tools, DBMS, et al...
>So...I ask you my fellow Oracle professionals. Is this just the nature of the beast ?
>Any suggestions...Am I supposed to offer bribes ?
>-Dan
Sorry; that's not been my experience. I've called in 3-4 TARS in the
last few weeks and gotten responses on all of them within 2-4 days.
Not speedy, but better than nothing While some of the help has not
been top notch or right on, most of them have pointed the right way.
Compared to Microsoft's 'everyone else is to blame' chant, Oracle's
Support is pretty good. I've found the attitude of the caller has a
big part of what kind of service you get.
I will say getting any inkling of Oracle's plans for the future or
recommendations for BAP strategies is a chore, however.
Michael B. Openshaw
Integrated Medical Networks
(Opinions expressed are my own)
Charles Jardine
Dan I. Nichols wrote:
>
> I can't believe that I'm the only one who experiences this...
This has not been my experience. Here in the UK I have found
Oracle Support to be extremely helpful.
Tim Jinkerson - Sun UK - Applications Engineer
In article 8...@rap.SanDiegoCA.ATTGIS.COM, Dan I. Nichols <dan.n...@sandiegoca.attgis.com> writes:
> I can't believe that I'm the only one who experiences this...
>
>
> I'll get hold of an analyst (after 20 minutes of listing to classical music on hold - toll call yet !)
>
> The analyst will dutifully take down, verbatum, my description of the problem, then claim to have need to
> talk to an "expert". The analyst will promise to call me back, then nothing...for days, weeks, months.
>
> I have a TAR open that was opened in July of 1995. I get absolutely no response from them. If I call
> back, the analyst is never there, and I'm prompted to leave a message.
>
> If I call and rant and rave and complain, I'll get a duty manager who will apologize, and say that they have
> been unusually busy lately, and promise to reassign the TAR to another analyst.
>
> The new analyst will call...dutifully take down, verbatum, my description of the problem...and the whole thing
> starts over again.
>
> This pattern exists for Oracle Applications issues, tools, DBMS, et al...
>
> So...I ask you my fellow Oracle professionals. Is this just the nature of the beast ?
> Any suggestions...Am I supposed to offer bribes ?
>
> -Dan
>
>
>
I have to say that I don't find this to be the case. Yes, it helps if you can direct the call
to the right person or group to start with, but I reckon that they are pretty good.
A technique I have used is to phone up, choose next available analyst, ask them to open
a call for you with a suitable heading, take down the call no. and fax through all the details
directing it to that call. The more work you do before placing the call, the better the
service.
Regards
Tim
Note:
These are my own opinions, and may or may not be those of my employer
Mark Styles
Tim Jinkerson - Sun UK - Applications Engineer <ti...@baa.uk.sun.com> wrote:
>Dan I. Nichols <dan.n...@sandiegoca.attgis.com> writes:
>> I can't believe that I'm the only one who experiences this...
>>
>> Everytime I have a need to call Oracle support, the same thing happens.
>> I'll get hold of an analyst (after 20 minutes of listing to classical
>> music on hold - toll call yet !)
The classical music is irritating, as it sounds horrible over a phone
line, and I have had to wait up to 20 minutes for an analyst, although
the average is probably 5 or 10 minutes. I've noticed the response
centre here in the UK has changed its on hold messages to tell you how
many people are in front of you in the queue, which is quite handy.
>> The analyst will dutifully take down, verbatum, my description of the
>> problem, then claim to have need to talk to an "expert". The analyst
>> will promise to call me back, then nothing...for days, weeks, months.
I think this depends a lot on luck, if you get through to someone who
knows what they're talking about, you can be sorted in minutes, but
in about 70% of cases, you normally get a message taker who gives a
log number and says "we'll call you back". I find that if I'm waiting
for a call, I have to chase them for a call back.
>> I have a TAR open that was opened in July of 1995. I get absolutely no
>> response from them. If I call back, the analyst is never there, and I'm
>> prompted to leave a message.
I don't know what a TAR is, we have PMS numbers, is that the same thing?
>I have to say that I don't find this to be the case. Yes, it helps if you
>can direct the call to the right person or group to start with, but I reckon
>that they are pretty good.
I try to use the direct dial numbers relevant to specific groups, which
makes life easier, although occasionally I find myself bouncing between
RDBMS group and UNIX group, when they can't decide whos fault it is...
One of the most dissapointing things about the response centre is the
way they use email, I tried emailing some of my problems to them, to
save hanging on the phone, and I received a polite reply, giving me
a log number, and saying that someone would call me shortly, but so
far I have not had a reply without chasing them on the telephone :-(
--
** Mark Styles aka Small -- Opinions expressed here are my own -- **
** ma...@teleord.co.uk -- unless otherwise specified -- **
** This whole world's wild at heart and weird on top **
Hugh Stewart McKenna
> In article 8...@rap.SanDiegoCA.ATTGIS.COM, Dan I. Nichols <dan.n...@sandiegoca.attgis.com> writes:
> > I have a TAR open that was opened in July of 1995. I get absolutely
I believe that TARs get automatically closed if you haven't been able
to talk to the assigned person within a month - they assume the problem
went away, basically. So you probaly DONT have a TAR from July 1995 :(
--
Hugh Stewart McKenna lnusebs...@eds.com
--
Computers are useless. They can only give you answers.
-- Pablo Picasso
dmo...@gpu.com
In <4lrkor$8...@rap.SanDiegoCA.ATTGIS.COM>, Dan I. Nichols <dan.n...@sandiegoca.attgis.com> writes:
>I can't believe that I'm the only one who experiences this...
Dan, I have had that experience once in a while (10% of my calls). When I get an
analyst right away they seem to take charge of the problem and solve it very
quickly. However, when I get the call response group and give my detailed
explanation and get promised a call-back I don't wait because TAR's are
automatically closed after a couple of weeks. I call every day until I get an
analyst. After several days of no success I ask for the duty manager. Since I have
used this method I have not gone more than 1 week without an answer.
D. Scott Moyer, Jr. dmo...@gpu.com (work)
GPU Service Corporation dsm...@enter.net (home)
Reading, PA
Marianne C. Brooks
Charles Jardine <cj...@cam.ac.uk> wrote:
>Dan I. Nichols wrote:
>>
>> I can't believe that I'm the only one who experiences this...
>
>Oracle Support to be extremely helpful.
I have to agree with Charles. When I have an Financials issue,
I make an extra effort to get to the office before 8 to call
support, in order to catch that time slot where the lines are
forwarded to the UK. Without a doubt, that organization has
its ducks in a row and can get me an answer before the end
of *their* day.
With the US support groups, I do try to get on RTSS to log the tar
first. That way, I can supply any logs, etc., myself. Then I wait
an hour or two and call back on the tar. I try to call back at least
once a day to get an answer. I also check through RTSS to update it
there too. I leave my number, email address, business hours ( I make
it a point to tell them I'm on east coast time, when I go to lunch,
when I plan to leave), as well as alternate contacts when applicable.
I've had good experiences and bad but all in all I'd say the good
outweighs the bad. Now, if you want to talk about *users*, I could
go on and on (and I have....).
Marianne Brooks
mcbr...@mcnc.org
Steve Shiflett
I ingraciate myself to the person over the phone, by kind inflections in
voice, a "smile", consideration of their difficult job, and a very
concise, yet detailed, description of my problem. By projection of
"personality", and appearing "professional", I delude myself that I get
better service than anyone else.
When I have a problem, I also talk to people witin my company, the net,
and the technical guy who does sales support. (The technical guy with
sales is only suppose to do sales-related stuff, but if you make friends
with him/her, they will help you out.)
rwoo...@interserv.com
>
>
> I'll get hold of an analyst (after 20 minutes of listing to classical music on hold - toll call yet !)
>
> talk to an "expert". The analyst will promise to call me back, then nothing...for days, weeks, months.
>
> back, the analyst is never there, and I'm prompted to leave a message.
>
> been unusually busy lately, and promise to reassign the TAR to another analyst.
>
> The new analyst will call...dutifully take down, verbatum, my description of the problem...and the whole thing
> starts over again.
>
> This pattern exists for Oracle Applications issues, tools, DBMS, et al...
>
> So...I ask you my fellow Oracle professionals. Is this just the nature of the beast ?
> Any suggestions...Am I supposed to offer bribes ?
>
> -Dan
>
>
>
>
>>>>
U19...@uicvm.uic.edu
Mike Rife
In article <4m29rc$e...@flonk.uk.sun.com>, ti...@baa.uk.sun.com says...
>
>In article 8...@rap.SanDiegoCA.ATTGIS.COM, Dan I. Nichols
1) I would call customer relations and explain the poor response you have
gotten to your TARs.
2) When I open a TAR, I call back on it on a regular basis, registering
call backs on the the TAR. I know that that it registers the call backs.
With enough call backs, the TAR may get bumped up in priority?
3) Keep notes on which individual has given you good support. If you get
them to reassign the TAR to another analyst, you may be able to ask that
the TAR be assigned to that analsyt.
FionbarrMc
Yes, sometimes Oracle support does suck, especially when I can't fully
define what my problem is - but then, that's really my fault, isn't it?
I've had some tars outstanding for quite a while as well.
On the other hand, I've gotten some *fantastic* support off them as well -
one time my database crashed at 20h00 and the guy stayed with me for well
over three hours. As I struggled into the wee hours, their support guys
rang me several times and helped me through the recovery procedure.
I guess it really comes down to how critical the problem is that you're
experiencing and how well-defined it is :-)
Cheers,
Fin.
Robert Walters
dmo...@gpu.com wrote:
>
> In <4lrkor$8...@rap.SanDiegoCA.ATTGIS.COM>, Dan I. Nichols <dan.n...@sandiegoca.attgis.com> writes:
> >I can't believe that I'm the only one who experiences this...
>
> analyst right away they seem to take charge of the problem and solve it very
> quickly. However, when I get the call response group and give my detailed
> explanation and get promised a call-back I don't wait because TAR's are
Does this seem to anyone like it is totally unethical? If you are paying to have
a company support their own product, and they automatically ignore problems, then
I consider that not getting what I paid for.
> I call every day until I get an
> analyst. After several days of no success I ask for the duty manager. Since I have
> used this method I have not gone more than 1 week without an answer.
Unfortunately, I don't have the desire to babysit Oracle.
>
> D. Scott Moyer, Jr. dmo...@gpu.com (work)
> GPU Service Corporation dsm...@enter.net (home)
> Reading, PA
>
I agree fully with Mr. Moyer in his handling of Oracle. I just
don't believe that I should have to treat them this way.
Bob Walters bob...@infocom.com
Florists' Mutual Insurance Co.
"Opinions stated here are definately my own, with no reflection on my
employer."
Garm
Oracle support has always sucked, but this is good for those
of us who make their living as consultants. The same is true
for all the "bugs," "quirks," and "undocumented features" in
every product and release. I vote for more bugs and worse
support!
Love,
Garm
Sherri Ziegler
> <dan.n...@sandiegoca.attgis.com> writes:
> >> I can't believe that I'm the only one who experiences this...
> >>
> happens.
> >>
> >> I'll get hold of an analyst (after 20 minutes of listing to classical
> music on hold - toll call yet !)
> >>
> >> The analyst will dutifully take down, verbatum, my description of the
> problem, then claim to have need to
> >> talk to an "expert". The analyst will promise to call me back, then
> nothing...for days, weeks, months.
> >>
> >> I have a TAR open that was opened in July of 1995. I get absolutely no
> response from them. If I call
> >> back, the analyst is never there, and I'm prompted to leave a message.
> >>
> >> If I call and rant and rave and complain, I'll get a duty manager who
> will apologize, and say that they have
> >> been unusually busy lately, and promise to reassign the TAR to another
> analyst.
> >>
> >> The new analyst will call...dutifully take down, verbatum, my
> description of the problem...and the whole thing
> >> starts over again.
> >>
> >> This pattern exists for Oracle Applications issues, tools, DBMS, et
> al...
> >>
> >> So...I ask you my fellow Oracle professionals. Is this just the nature
> of the beast ?
> >> Any suggestions...Am I supposed to offer bribes ?
> >>
> >> -Dan
> >>
National Quality Award NOT!!! We are a million plus account and rarely
see our sales rep. We have a parade down main street when he comes to
town.
ray charbonneau
Steve Shiflett <shiflet...@mm.ssd.lmsc.lockheed.com> wrote:
>I ingraciate myself to the person over the phone, by kind inflections in
>voice, a "smile", consideration of their difficult job, and a very
>concise, yet detailed, description of my problem. By projection of
>"personality", and appearing "professional", I delude myself that I get
>better service than anyone else.
>
>When I have a problem, I also talk to people witin my company, the net,
>and the technical guy who does sales support. (The technical guy with
>sales is only suppose to do sales-related stuff, but if you make friends
>with him/her, they will help you out.)
It is shocking when one applies the standards we have set for consumer
products to software. Remember, with software like Oracle, it doesn't
matter if the product works. Sales people come in feed pastries to
ignorant management types and get their product declared a standard. The
job is done. You have to work the result. If it doesn't work, it is your
fault. Where is Dilbert when you need him? Although this may seem
funny, the scary part is that it is often true.
have fun
ray c,
My own thoughts and not those of my employer.
David J. DeWolfe
Greetings;
I am one of the two technical contacts for Oracle at the University of Alaska, and we also have
some serious concerns regarding Oracle Technical Support. Our environment consists of:
Oracle 7.1.4 soon to be 7.1.6
Silver support
sql*net version 2
DEC Alpha 8400 2 gig RAM, 2 cpu's (soon to increase to 6 gig RAM and 4 processors)
Digital Unix v3.2D
SCT's Banner suite of products (Finance, Student, Payroll etc) all run Oracle Forms 3
Currently averaging 150+ concurrent data base connections 8-5 M-F (only live on one application),
and expected to increase to 500+ concurrent users
Some of the issues we're concerned with are:
The time it takes to get "emergency, production down" support. A recent system
crash (Digital Unix) corrupted our production database. The recovery took approx
30 hours, the first 1.5 of which I was waiting on hold with Oracle TS, and then waiting
for an analyst to call me back. This after having pressed "9" or whatever it is to indicate
that this was a "production down" situation. We're currently live with a finance package,
which is somewhat flexible in regards to outtages, but when we go live with our student
system, this kind of response will be unacceptable.
I've called in lots of TAR's, and with almost every single one, the feeling I get is that the first
line of support is a "defensive" line, and to a certain extent, I can understand that. We realize
that Oracle TS gets zillions of calls, and alot of those are probably dealing with users trying to
install, for example, windows products and are running out of room on their C drives. However, I go
through the same old routine with almost every TAR where I attempt (hopefully successfully:)
to convince the analyst that i'm not a bonehead, that i'm in a production environment, that I have
hundreds of users, that i'm dealing with an online financial application, that I've read the manuals.
When I contact support, I get the impression that they view me as a customer who has screwed
something up, as opposed to a customer who has a problem and requires assistance. It gets very
frustrating.
How hard it is to get to level 2 support. I'm not sure if that's what Oracle calls it, but i'm
referring to the next level of support after the initial analyst. Case in point - Oracle Names.
I've been running names for over a year, yet almost any time I need to call regarding MTS,
listener problems etc, the first thing the analyst will want to see is my listener.ora, and tnsnames.ora
files. I don't know how many times I've had to tell the analyst that you don't have a tnsnames.ora
file when you use Names. I've literally jumped for joy when I've gotten past some of the first level
support analysts to someone more qualified. I can tell very quickly when I've contacted an analyst
who is very competent in regards to the product in question. Why can't the first level analysts tell
the same about me, and if they're unable to provide the level of support I will likely require, forward
me on to level 2. I think that the first level folks need to be better equipped to evaluate the caller
and his/her situation, and environment. I'm not trying to install Personel Oracle7 here, I'm trying
to support the mission critical applications of the University of Alaska.
Hearing things like "I'll ask my recovery expert when he gets back". That's what I was told recently
during a "production down, emergency" situation. Call me greedy, but in that situation, THAT'S the
analyst I want to be talking to.
Our initial investment for Oracle software was over $500,000.00 and support costs us more than $100,000.00
per year. We're currently considering going to Gold support in the hopes that that level would alleviate some of
our concerns.
Now, in conclusion I would like to say that I have received good support from Oracle as well. I've worked with some
very intellegent, and qualified people who have provided me with answers to my Oracle problems. This however, is not
the norm, based on my experience.
BTW, is there anything like an Oracle internals class? I do not mean the DBA training stuff. Are the
internals documented anywhere?
David J. DeWolfe
Systems Programmer III
Statewide Office of Information Services
University of Alaska
<sx...@orca.alaska.edu>
Simon
ma...@sensible.teleord.co.uk (Mark Styles) wrote:
>The classical music is irritating, as it sounds horrible over a phone
>line, and I have had to wait up to 20 minutes for an analyst, although
>the average is probably 5 or 10 minutes. I've noticed the response
>centre here in the UK has changed its on hold messages to tell you how
>many people are in front of you in the queue, which is quite handy.
This is the single most irritating thing about 'phoning Oracle
support. Having to listen to "All analysts in this group are busy"
every 2 minutes is rather annoying as well :-) The office joke is that
we can't use the 'phone for the afternoon, as Simon is calling Oracle!
However, when I do get through, I have always found them to be either
extremely helpful and sort me out within minutes, or they call back
within a day or so. I don't think I could ask for more than that!
>One of the most dissapointing things about the response centre is the
>way they use email, I tried emailing some of my problems to them, to
>save hanging on the phone, and I received a polite reply, giving me
>a log number, and saying that someone would call me shortly, but so
>far I have not had a reply without chasing them on the telephone :-(
Can you just email the response centre without a log then? I've only
ever mailed them at their request for more information on my problem,
and they've been swift at returning my mail, too.
--
Simon Holt -- System Designer/DBA
** My opinions are not nescessarily those of my employers **
Britannia Zinc Ltd. (+44) 0117 982 3646
Joel Garry
>Our initial investment for Oracle software was over $500,000.00 and support costs us more than $100,000.00
>per year. We're currently considering going to Gold support in the hopes that that level would alleviate some of
>our concerns.
>
>Now, in conclusion I would like to say that I have received good support from Oracle as well. I've worked with some
>very intellegent, and qualified people who have provided me with answers to my Oracle problems. This however, is not
>the norm, based on my experience.
Sounds like Oracle's support policy is:
Promise them anything, but give them small crumbs of support if they scream
long enough.
Why not con Oracle back? Say, "Ok, we want gold support, but how about
you discounting it by (%useless support time x $100,000)? Or would you
prefer we cancel all support and go to (some other db)?"
First you have to get the mule's attention... then give it a deadly choice.
--
Joel Garry joe...@rossinc.com Compuserve 70661,1534
These are my opinions, not necessarily those of Ross Systems, Inc. <> <>
%DCL-W-SOFTONEDGEDONTPUSH, Software On Edge - Don't Push. \ V /
panic: ifree: freeing free inodes... O
Martin Thomas
Charles Jardine <cj...@cam.ac.uk> wrote:
>Dan I. Nichols wrote:
>>
>> I can't believe that I'm the only one who experiences this...
>This has not been my experience. Here in the UK I have found
>Oracle Support to be extremely helpful.
I'd second this. The support from Oracle in the UK is excellent.
Mirwais Qader
In article <4lrkor$8...@rap.SanDiegoCA.ATTGIS.COM>, dan.n...@sandiegoca.attgis.com says...
>
>I can't believe that I'm the only one who experiences this...
>So...I ask you my fellow Oracle professionals. Is this just the nature of the beast ?
>Any suggestions...Am I supposed to offer bribes ?
>
>-Dan
You are absolutely correct.
I am basically a beginner so I have some general questions once in a while, like:
Can I install Discoverer/2000 on the Network for those without sufficient disk space
on their PC's?
- I get transfered to 3 different places
- One says this is a 'Tools' installation question
- Another says this is a Discoverer question
- Another says this is a network question
- etc...
My strategy now is:
1. Post on Newsgroup
2. Call/Email people I know
3. Call Oracle Support and Waite........
4. Ask management for more ORACLE training
5. Call my sales rep.
Michael Kiesel
j...@cci.dk (Jan Overgaard) wrote:
>Charles Jardine <cj...@cam.ac.uk> wrote:
>>Dan I. Nichols wrote:
>>>
>>> I can't believe that I'm the only one who experiences this...
>>This has not been my experience. Here in the UK I have found
>>Oracle Support to be extremely helpful.
>The same goes for Oracle Denmark, that has an exellent support.
I would like to add: The same applies for Germany.
We had about 1 support request per week for the past years.
My estimate is that about 95% of them were solved. Most within
some hours or maximum one to two days. The support staff here in
Germany is extremely friendly, helpful and efficient.
--
Michael Kiesel
mk...@izb.de
Shafik A. Mahomad
In message <4n6t4f$2...@izb.izb.de> - mk...@izb.de (Michael Kiesel)Mon, 13 May
1996 08:43:06 GMT writes:
:>
As a relatively new user of Oracle technology I called Oracle Support three
times here in Portugal ( well, I actualy faxed them).
I tend to agree with the first poster, IMO They're next to useless ! I
practically gave up on them ! and of course they filed my request as solved
because I didn't follow up their answers with an OK or Not OK !
The reason for not following up is because the awswers were so un-related to
the question that the only follow-up I could think of was : Up Yours !!
..Shafik.Mahomad.......................................................
.......................................................................
..Information Systems Consulting......................Lisbon, Portugal.
......smahomad@telepac.pt.....................The Thrill of Discovery..