Oracle on Windows vs Solaris or Linux ?
F
Solaris or Linux ?
We are using Oracle 10g
Thanks
Michael Austin
Do not enable HYPER-THREADING on the Windows box. I have had more than
one db performance increase significantly by DISABLING it - Oracle does
not HT very well on Windows. On one app, the db functions went from
400ms to 10ms by disabling HT.
Maintenance is a pain - being able to restore a complete database and
have it functioning afterwards is a biggy for me. I was in one shop
where restore was re-image the server - then reinstall/recreate the
database. It was a temporary storage on a production line and data was
uploaded to a site db every few minutes via a db job. They also
switched to using OracleXE (4G data limit) due to no licensing costs-
and also worked well with the app/db design.
Multi-core licenses on Solaris/Linux may play a role in your decision.
Again database maintenance, backups/restores are fairly easy. Size of
the database will also play a role in your decision as you will consider
storage and storage redundancy and backup space.
In my current position we do not allow Oracle on Windows - if it is
Business or Mission critical - it should be on a platform capable of
handling the work-load. Windows is far to fragile for that- can you say
BSoD?
Matthias Hoys
"F" <f...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:fr1f0s$4a5$1...@registered.motzarella.org...
I have no experience with RAC on Windows but I find Oracle on Windows harder
to manage because the command line interface is much better on UNIX and
Linux boxes.
Matthias
Yong Huang
> Do not enable HYPER-THREADING on the Windows box. I have had more than
> one db performance increase significantly by DISABLING it - Oracle does
> not HT very well on Windows. On one app, the db functions went from
> 400ms to 10ms by disabling HT.
Hi Michael,
Do you happen to know exactly what had caused the problem? Is there an
Oracle or Microsoft bug? Did you try explicitly setting cpu_count=1
without disabling hyperthreading at OS level? If that works, you can
unset it and try other parameters to narrow down,
_kgl_latch_count=0, ..., any parameter that changed value when you set
cpu_count=1. By no means am I saying these are better workarounds. But
if you follow this process, you *might* find the real cause.
Yong Huang
Michael Austin
I am no longer at that site (almost 2 yrs ago...) The system was a
single-processor - single core or dual core (tried both) with HT turned
on that we noticed having the issue.
DA Morgan
All of my experiences with RAC on Windows have been negative.
Not necessarily because Windows can't perform as well as Linux
or Solaris but definitely because Windows Admins can not
perform as well as *NIX admins.
Stick with *NIX until such time as you can find a Windows Admin
that can do the job outside the GUI.
One example of RAC on Windows that seems common is that the
typical sub-second to 2 second fail-overs we typically see with
Oracle and RedHat Linux can be 20-25 second failovers when on
the same hardware configured with Windows AS 2003.
--
Daniel A. Morgan
Oracle Ace Director & Instructor
University of Washington
damo...@x.washington.edu (replace x with u to respond)
Puget Sound Oracle Users Group
www.psoug.org
meet.l...@gmail.com
> F wrote:
> > DoesOracleRAC on windows have any issues as opposed to sayOracleon
> > Solaris or Linux ?
>
> > We are usingOracle10g
>
> > Thanks
>
> All of my experiences with RAC on Windows have been negative.
>
> Not necessarily because Windows can't perform as well as Linux
> or Solaris but definitely because Windows Admins can not
> perform as well as *NIX admins.
>
> Stick with *NIX until such time as you can find a Windows Admin
> that can do the job outside the GUI.
>
> One example of RAC on Windows that seems common is that the
> the same hardware configured with Windows AS 2003.
> --
> University of Washington
> damor...@x.washington.edu (replace x with u to respond)
> Puget SoundOracleUsers Groupwww.psoug.org
Excellent Answer Daniel!!
Tony Rogerson
That's a version I've never come across - what's Windows AS 2003?
Current version is Windows 2008 and in many flavours.
Predecessor for the past 2 years is Windows 2003 R2 in Web and Server and
Enterprise and Data Centre flavours.
You have to go all the way back to Windows 2000 for Advanced Server, now if
that is what you are running I'd to hazzard a guess it is then no wonder you
are having problems.
--
Tony Rogerson, SQL Server MVP
http://sqlblogcasts.com/blogs/tonyrogerson
[Ramblings from the field from a SQL consultant]
http://sqlserverfaq.com
[UK SQL User Community]
bdbafh
> > the same hardware configured with Windows AS 2003.
>
> That's a version I've never come across - what's Windows AS 2003?
>
> Current version is Windows 2008 and in many flavours.
>
troll-o-meter:
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
> Predecessor for the past 2 years is Windows 2003 R2 in Web and Server and
> Enterprise and Data Centre flavours.
>
> You have to go all the way back to Windows 2000 for Advanced Server, now if
> that is what you are running I'd to hazzard a guess it is then no wonder you
> are having problems.
>
> --
> Tony Rogerson, SQL Server MVPhttp://sqlblogcasts.com/blogs/tonyrogerson
> [Ramblings from the field from a SQL consultant]http://sqlserverfaq.com
> [UK SQL User Community]
So you're a "hero". Congrats.
What do Firefox users that don't run Silverlight have to do to find a
release date for when OEMs are actually shipping Windows Server 2008
pre-installed?
Somewhere in the range of "real ... soon ... now"?
"Current version is Windows 2008" ... good one.
-bdbafh
Tony Rogerson
> release date for when OEMs are actually shipping Windows Server 2008
> pre-installed?
>
> Somewhere in the range of "real ... soon ... now"?
>
> "Current version is Windows 2008" ... good one.
What's that noise - choaking on your own foot I guess
http://www.greymatter.com/p290749
Pick the edition you want - all available to joe public....
> troll-o-meter:
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++
Plonka meter:
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
You'd have thought somebody who is a system builder would be fully versed in
what OS version and editions his chosen product expertise works on.
bdbafh
> > What do Firefox users that don't run Silverlight have to do to find a
> > release date for when OEMs are actually shipping Windows Server 2008
> > pre-installed?
>
> > Somewhere in the range of "real ... soon ... now"?
>
> > "Current version is Windows 2008" ... good one.
>
> What's that noise - choaking on your own foot I guess
>
> http://www.greymatter.com/p290749
>
> Pick the edition you want - all available to joe public....
>
> > troll-o-meter:
> > +++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> Plonka meter:
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> You'd have thought somebody who is a system builder would be fully versed in
> what OS version and editions his chosen product expertise works on.
>
> --
nice.
How about if you actually read the post - specifically the part where
I referred to OEMs actually shipping Windows Server 2008 pre-
installed?
Yes, I did mean in a US-centric, major OEMs kinda way such as Dell
and HP.
In checking on both of their retail sites, neither had w2k8 listed as
an option when specifying a server OS.
Guess that w2k8 server is not current quite yet.
Are you running the current version of SQL Server 2008 on that as
well?'
-bdbafh
Tony Rogerson
> I referred to OEMs actually shipping Windows Server 2008 pre-
> installed?
>
How about you do some research before joining the party.
> Yes, I did mean in a US-centric, major OEMs kinda way such as Dell
> and HP.
> In checking on both of their retail sites, neither had w2k8 listed as
> an option when specifying a server OS.
You just looking online? If you'd have any clue you would know that to get
the best deal you go through a partner and not direct.
Anyway I've listed the links for the support and availability of windows
2008.
>
> Guess that w2k8 server is not current quite yet.
>
Oh you must mean these links...
http://h71028.www7.hp.com/enterprise/cache/458915-0-0-0-121.html?jumpid=reg_R1002_UKEN
http://h18004.www1.hp.com/products/servers/software/microsoft/OS/Windowslonghorn_overview.html
From the page "HP builds the best run server infrastructure for Windows
Server 2008. HP delivers an integrated set of value-add software drivers and
management software optimized for your server infrastructure. "
All you need to do is ask your HP supplier - it's on HP's site clear as day.
> Are you running the current version of SQL Server 2008 on that as
> well?'
Nice distraction technique but it ain't going to work.
hpuxrac
Oracle these days seems to be putting out new versions of their
software first onto linux and windows before completing ports to the
older standard unix flavors aka hpux, solaris, and aix. So from the
oracle marketing focus, there seems to be a strong emphasis on windows
based systems.
Is that because it performs so well on those systems or more to
continue to take a dent in the marketshare of SQL Server on windows
systems? Well there's a lot of opinions in regards to questions like
that.
Many of us in the oracle area strongly prefix unix or linux systems
for oracle. I will just leave it like that.
Can you get a running functional stable RAC system on windows?
Probably so I don't have any relevant production experience in systems
like that.
hpuxrac
> On Mar 11, 2:00 pm, "Tony Rogerson" <tonyroger...@torver.net> wrote:
>
> > > the same hardware configured with Windows AS 2003.
>
> > That's a version I've never come across - what's Windows AS 2003?
>
> > Current version is Windows 2008 and in many flavours.
>
> troll-o-meter:
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++
Flame-o-
meteor !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Better put some charge into the dilithium crystals.
snip
> So you're a "hero". Congrats.
> What do Firefox users that don't run Silverlight have to do to find a
> release date for when OEMs are actually shipping Windows Server 2008
> pre-installed?
>
> Somewhere in the range of "real ... soon ... now"?
>
> "Current version is Windows 2008" ... good one.
>
> -bdbafh
Well at least bdbafh isn't trying to stir the point!
What the heck is Silverlight?
bdbafh
> > How about if you actually read the post - specifically the part where
> > I referred to OEMs actually shipping Windows Server 2008 pre-
> > installed?
>
> How about you do some research before joining the party.
>
> > Yes, I did mean in a US-centric, major OEMs kinda way such as Dell
> > and HP.
> > In checking on both of their retail sites, neither had w2k8 listed as
> > an option when specifying a server OS.
>
> You just looking online? If you'd have any clue you would know that to get
> the best deal you go through a partner and not direct.
>
> Anyway I've listed the links for the support and availability of windows
> 2008.
>
>
>
> > Guess that w2k8 server is not current quite yet.
>
> Oh you must mean these links...
>
>
> http://h18004.www1.hp.com/products/servers/software/microsoft/OS/Wind...
> From the page "HP builds the best run server infrastructure for Windows
> Server 2008. HP delivers an integrated set of value-add software drivers and
> management software optimized for your server infrastructure. "
>
> All you need to do is ask your HP supplier - it's on HP's site clear as day.
>
> > Are you running the current version of SQL Server 2008 on that as
> > well?'
>
> Nice distraction technique but it ain't going to work.
>
> --
Tony,
Since you're in a helpful mood, I can't seem to locate Windows Server
2008 (either x86 or x86-64) support up on the Oracle Metalink site
under "Certify" for Oracle Database Server 10g R2 - Enterprise
Edition.
Have you seen a note or doc regarding this?
thanks,
-bdbafh
DA Morgan
>> the same hardware configured with Windows AS 2003.
>
> That's a version I've never come across - what's Windows AS 2003?
ROFLOL.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22Windows+Advanced+Server+2003%22&btnG=Search
It rarely gets better than this.
Thanks Tony.
Tony Rogerson
>
> Thanks Tony.
Your too right Denial Again; I notice you don't bother to give the URL to
the Microsoft Windows Server site that lists ALL the editions.
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/windowsserver/evaluate/features/compare.mspx
> ROFLOL.
>
> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22Windows+Advanced+Server+2003%22&btnG=Search
>
Web SP2
Standard SP2
Standard R2
Enterprise SP2
Enterprise R2
Datacenter SP2
Datacenter R2
Where oh where is Windows 2003 Advanced Server? Not a single reference on
the MICROSOFT website.
Where oh where Denial Again?
I repeat ...
You'd have thought somebody who is a system builder would be fully versed in
what OS version and editions his chosen product expertise works on.
--
Steve Howard
>
> Where oh where is Windows 2003 Advanced Server? Not a single reference on
> the MICROSOFT website.
>
> Where oh where Denial Again?
>
> I repeat ...
>
> You'd have thought somebody who is a system builder would be fully versed in
> what OS version and editions his chosen product expertise works on.
>
I rarely get involved with this kind of post, but curiosity killed
me. As of today, the 8th link down on the first page he linked...
The following lists all of the references on the microsoft website...
Regards,
Steve
Tony Rogerson
> 2008 (either x86 or x86-64) support up on the Oracle Metalink site
> under "Certify" for Oracle Database Server 10g R2 - Enterprise
> Edition.
>
> Have you seen a note or doc regarding this?
I see you are now at the 'arrr but...' stage - you've lost the argument so
you try and digress into another topic.
Frankly I don't know and nor interested; I'd have expected both oracle and
DB2 to be there.
The biggest benefit of Windows Server 2008 is it's virtualisation and in
addtion the Hyper V stuff that will RTM in a few months time - it's going to
kick hell out of VMWare.
Tony Rogerson
> me. As of today, the 8th link down on the first page he linked...
>
> http://technet2.microsoft.com/windowsserver/en/library/86d43687-506a-47bd-9565-d939eab1da1c1033.mspx?mfr=true
>
> The following lists all of the references on the microsoft website...
>
> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22Windows+Advanced+Server+2003%22+site%3Amicrosoft.com&btnG=Search
>
> Regards,
>
> Steve
Those are the same article and it's a Knowledge Base article - it was
published on 1st June 2002 - that is well before Windows Server 2003
shipped.
The article is simply badly edited from a previous Windows Advanced Server
2000. I can't find the marketing for 2000 but this wikipedia explains it
perfectly -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_2000.
There was never ever ever a Windows Advanced Server 2003 released - ever.
And for proof just read Microsoft's own marketing site ->
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/windowsserver/evaluate/features/compare.mspx
Or, like Denial Again, do you put a single KB article above what MS's own
marketing site states?
But, back to my point....
You'd have thought somebody who is a system builder would be fully versed in
what OS version and editions his chosen product expertise works on.
--
Steve Howard
> Or, like Denial Again, do you put a single KB article above what MS's own
> marketing site states?
>
You stated...
<<Where oh where is Windows 2003 Advanced Server? Not a single
reference on
the MICROSOFT website.>>
..and I posted what I found in 30 seconds on the MICROSOFT website.
As a result, you may want to take your own advice...
<<You'd have thought somebody who is a system builder would be fully
versed in
what OS version and editions his chosen product expertise works on.>>
...unless I am misunderstanding what I quoted you posting above?
Tony Rogerson
>
> <<Where oh where is Windows 2003 Advanced Server? Not a single
> reference on
> the MICROSOFT website.>>
>
> ..and I posted what I found in 30 seconds on the MICROSOFT website.
> As a result, you may want to take your own advice...
>
> <<You'd have thought somebody who is a system builder would be fully
> versed in
> what OS version and editions his chosen product expertise works on.>>
>
> ...unless I am misunderstanding what I quoted you posting above?
Sad - really sad.
If you are going to nit pick - I said the MICROSOFT website, not the TECHNET
one.
The MICROSOFT website is the marketing; TECHNET website is for IT Pros and
MSDN is for devs; both TECHNET and MSDN contain the Knowledge Base articles.
And for there to be a solitary KB article that has the text Windows Advanced
Server 2003 in it - does that not tell you something?
Tony Rogerson
Denial Again - what's up? Not know everything like you think you do?
Bit childish emailing insults to my private email..... Pitty you didn't do
it from your work one....
"
-----Original Message-----
From: d...@psoug.org [mailto:d...@psoug.org]
Sent: 12 March 2008 19:32
To: Tony Rogerson
Subject: RE: Oracle on Windows vs Solaris or Linux ?
> Right back at you...
>
> Make sure you do your research first Denial Again.
>
>> It rarely gets better than this.
>>
>> Thanks Tony.
Thanks for the update Phony Rogerson.
Gawd what a bloody ignorant wanker.
Frank van Bortel
Would refer from posting commercial tinted responses?
These belong in CDO.marketplace
--
Regards,
Frank van Bortel
Top-posting in UseNet newsgroups is one way to shut me up
Tony Rogerson
> These belong in CDO.marketplace
>
Lol - I don't see how correcting Denial Again's comment about a Windows
edition that doesn't even exist constitutes marketing.
And when Denial Again puts a google link to a solitary KB article and a
number of forum posts and explaims that as evidence that the OS version does
exist - well, come on!
hpuxrac
wrote:
> Tony Rogerson wrote:
>
> Would refer from posting commercial tinted responses?
> These belong in CDO.marketplace
Looks like he was responding to specific questions by other people in
the thread to me.
Niall Litchfield
> Denial Again
several times
> Tony Rogerson, SQL Server MVP
Now I've got a fair amount of time for your sql server work, and I
know that an MVP designation is not easily one. I find it hard to
square with gratuitous and repeated name calling. Obviously the Oracle
newsgroups might not be a place that you expect to glean a deal of
work. I'm surpised however at this sort of public behaviour from
someone Microsoft view as an independent helpful and professional
representative (http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/). Do you not have to
be professional and reasonable in non-ms forums?
Niall
hpuxrac
wrote:
It seems like name calling has come from several sources in this
thread. Hard to blame people like Jerry and Tony from defending
themselves.
Tony Rogerson
> know that an MVP designation is not easily one. I find it hard to
> square with gratuitous and repeated name calling. Obviously the Oracle
> newsgroups might not be a place that you expect to glean a deal of
> work. I'm surpised however at this sort of public behaviour from
> someone Microsoft view as an independent helpful and professional
> representative (http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/). Do you not have to
> be professional and reasonable in non-ms forums?
> Niall
People dish it out to me, I dish it back - that's how life works.
celko and Denial Again are very ignorant people that have little regard for
people with opposing views.
As for Denial Again, I've had several private emails from him calling me a
wanker amongst other things.
The point about the MVP is that I don't work for it - if MS choose to give
me it then that's great, however, it does not change my belief system, it
does not change how I respond to people bullies like celko and Denial Again;
yes, the MVP gives me benefits but MS also gets stuff back for instance me
driving the SQL Community here in the UK which is flurishing.
And finally, getting work - clients are big enough and smart enough to see
the situation and context; I really don't think defending myself is going to
lose me any work.
Thanks for the observations though Niall.
Tony.
--
Tony Rogerson, SQL Server MVP
news.verizon.net
"Tony Rogerson" <tonyro...@torver.net> wrote in message
news:frftos$h5l$1$8300...@news.demon.co.uk...
I think you mean The SQL Server community. The SQL Community would be
anyone who uses SQL -> Structured Query Language. I know MS prefers people
use the SQL terminology to refer to their product, but it is wrong.
Jim
DA Morgan
>> It rarely gets better than this.
>>
>> Thanks Tony.
>
> Your too right Denial Again; I notice you don't bother to give the URL
> to the Microsoft Windows Server site that lists ALL the editions.
>
> http://www.microsoft.com/technet/windowsserver/evaluate/features/compare.mspx
>
>
>> ROFLOL.
>>
>> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22Windows+Advanced+Server+2003%22&btnG=Search
>>
>>
>
> Web SP2
> Standard SP2
> Standard R2
> Enterprise SP2
> Enterprise R2
> Datacenter SP2
> Datacenter R2
>
> Where oh where is Windows 2003 Advanced Server? Not a single reference
> on the MICROSOFT website.
>
> Where oh where Denial Again?
>
> I repeat ...
>
> You'd have thought somebody who is a system builder would be fully
> versed in
> what OS version and editions his chosen product expertise works on.
Looked at my job description. Nowhere did it say: "educate the
willfully ignorant and arrogant."
--
Daniel A. Morgan
Niall Litchfield
> People dish it out to me, I dish it back - that's how life works.
It's not how I work - but certainly I understand that I'm perhaps a
bit unusual, and in an case hadn't seen you being on the receiving
end.
> The point about the MVP is that I don't work for it - if MS choose to give
> me it then that's great, however, it does not change my belief system, it
> does not change how I respond to people bullies like celko and Denial Again;
> yes, the MVP gives me benefits but MS also gets stuff back for instance me
> driving the SQL Community here in the UK which is flurishing.
Indeed, I see as similar to the Oracle ACE designation that Daniel has
(http://apex.oracle.com/pls/otn/f?p=19297:4:182894176719382::NO:
4:P4_ID:32 ) though more established. It still seems to me a pity that
community leaders have been 'dishing it out' but I'm sorry that it
appears I incorrectly attributed that to just you.
Niall
Tony Rogerson
Yer - what ever you believe Niall.
MVP programme has been going since before 1998, when did the oracle ace
programme start?
I think rather than established, i think oracle is playing catch up when it
comes to community and frankly has a long long way to go.
--
Tony Rogerson, SQL Server MVP
http://sqlblogcasts.com/blogs/tonyrogerson
[Ramblings from the field from a SQL consultant]
http://sqlserverfaq.com
[UK SQL User Community]
"Niall Litchfield" <niall.li...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:56ef1a27-ffe6-4b19...@s19g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
Tony Rogerson
> willfully ignorant and arrogant."
Arrogant: people who believe they know everything and don't listen; I listen
and learn from a lot of folk - don't confuse arrogance with a lack of
respect for people who beleive they know everything and throw there weight
around aka a BULLY.
Ignorant: somebody who does not listen to anothers point of view; I do which
is why I learn; there are a very select few (2) I do not listen too and just
ignore and question (you're one of them).
Back on track though - why is it you feel compelled to privately email
people (me) and call them a wanker? Hardly redeeming when you call people
arrogant and ignorant!
--
Tony Rogerson, SQL Server MVP
http://sqlblogcasts.com/blogs/tonyrogerson
[Ramblings from the field from a SQL consultant]
http://sqlserverfaq.com
[UK SQL User Community]
"DA Morgan" <damo...@psoug.org> wrote in message
news:12056033...@bubbleator.drizzle.com...
Arch
<tonyro...@torver.net> wrote:
[snip]
>The biggest benefit of Windows Server 2008 is it's virtualisation and in
>addtion the Hyper V stuff that will RTM in a few months time - it's going to
>kick hell out of VMWare.
That's assuming they get the virtualization working.
Frank van Bortel
for my customers... Virtualization == !Oracle support...
bdbafh
wrote:
A thread in the Forums on Metalink requesting info on this subject was
closed out yesterday with no useful information being reported.
(Oracle) Support doesn't know or isn't providing the information yet.
-bdbafh
Frank van Bortel
was being used - be warned: iAS 10.1.3 opmn does go bezerk.
Comment was Support would consider looking into the issue once
we could reproduce on non-virtualized machinery. Which is, and
has always been the standpoint.
Shakespeare
"Frank van Bortel" <frank.va...@gmail.com> schreef in bericht
news:482e4$47e029e1$524b5c40$18...@cache1.tilbu1.nb.home.nl...
Maybe adding a line with the virtual ip-address to opmn.xml may work. Have
seen this on other vm's as well, as with virtual host naming in Oracle
itself.
Does HP-UX still virtualize through 'encapsulation' ? I'm not too up-to-date
with HP-UX virtualization, but still remember that ip-ports are shared among
VM's, which did gave conflicts in the past.
Shakespeare
Shakespeare