informix/oracle comparison
sam
please can any one tel me where can I find a technical comparison between
Oracle and informix ?
Daniel A. Morgan
Don't know where to find it ... but did you miss the fact that Informix was
sold to IBM and will likely be dropped as a product in the not too distant
future?
If you are going to compare things ... I'd suggest Oracle vs DB/2.
Daniel A. Morgan
Serge Rielau
Any other statement is Oracle marketing.
http://www-4.ibm.com/software/data/informix/directions.html
Please download the whitepaper, it doesn't get much clearer than that.
Cheers
Serge
Daniel A. Morgan
The statement was made by IBM and was reported on CNN's web site.
What they said was that they were going to incorporate Informix features
into DB/2 Universal Server and that they would support existing Informix
customers ... but could not guarantee new versions.
If you have other information you might want to tell them at
http://www.cnn.com.
Daniel A. Morgan
Serge Rielau
I tried to find an article on CNN w.r.t Informix and IBM, but couldn't find
one stating what you refer to. Could you please be more specific?
Note that the whitepaper I refered to is first hand information from the IBM
webpage. And "plan to support, enhance and sell" is as clear as it gets,
given that
the transaction is not yet in effect.
Cheers
Serge
Jon K
and it is a very important strategic OS for IBM...
Oh wait,too late.
JKL
"Serge Rielau" <sri...@ca.ibm.com> wrote in message
news:3B2A6A2B...@ca.ibm.com...
Daniel A. Morgan
The item was posted the day the sale was announced. I have seen nothing from any
news organization, IBM, or Informix since then.
Are you, officially as a representative of IBM, stating that IBM will continue
to support and offer new versions of Informix as an independent product for the
foreseeable future? Or are you just playing defense?
Daniel A. Morgan
wayne
continue
> to support and offer new versions of Informix as an independent product
for the
> foreseeable future? Or are you just playing defense?
Why don't you do your own research? the first hit returned on ibm.com if
you search for "Informix" says they will continue to support and update
Informix:
http://www-4.ibm.com/software/data/news/pr2.html
Nuno Souto
<jon.do...@excitedot.com> wrote:
>And OS/2 is NOT going to be dropped. They make billions of dollars from it,
>and it is a very important strategic OS for IBM...
>
>Oh wait,too late.
>
Bingo!!!!!
ROFL!
Cheers
Nuno Souto
nso...@bigpond.net.au.nospam
http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/the_Den/index.html
Georgina O Economou
> Informix is NOT getting dropped, not now and not later.
That's a ridiculous statement. Now it is not getting. Later, how would
you know?
Just because you work for Blue doesn't mean that they tell you
everything.
Steven Toney
currently there is a movement to get legacy informix to migrate to oracle.
so with ibm's buy-out
I too believe informix will not likely see new updates of any consequence
and will likely disappear over time..
In our projects/DBs -- we have used sybase, informix, SQL2000, oracle over
time
sybase and informix are nearly completely phased out..only two projects left
to migrate into SQL2000 or Oracle
steve
"Nuno Souto" <nso...@nsw.bigpond.net.au.nospam> wrote in message
news:3b2b3f51.2042524@news-server...
Daniel A. Morgan
Beg your pardon but the web site does not claim that they will continue to
support the product for the foreseeable future. In fact it doesn't even
guarantee a new version. It says updates which I read as "bug fixes".
And providing a path for Informix customers does not necessarily mean new
version with new features. It could mean ... migrate to DB/2 Universal
Server.
I understand your loyalty to your employer. I understand you are in the cheer
leading section. But quite frankly if Informix is still being marketed as an
independent product five years from now I'll be shocked. And as someone else
pointed out ... this is the company whose commitment to OS/2 was rock solid.
Daniel A. Morgan
Serge Rielau
I did point to an official whitepaper at the IBM website. So there is no need for me
being an official represenative for IBM, the paper should serve well.
But if it helps, I spoke to Janet Perna in person mid May, asked her how long we're
going to support Informix and she answered something like: Probably until you
retire, we still support and enhance IMS.
I am 30 - younger than IMS. And I was about 10 when the relation wave started.
When you read the news end of April (I think that was the date?) IBM and Informix
were still competitors. This was prior to the Informix shareholder meeting and
before SEC cleared the way.
A lot has changed since then and statements can be made a lot clearer, based on a
lot more knowledge IBM has about Informix the product and Informix the developers.
Cheers
Serge
Serge Rielau
customers and drives them into the arms of the competition is a lot more
ridiculous.
Never heard of the rule that the obvious answer is usually the right one?
Cheers
Serge
Serge Rielau
Five years in a market with an 18month product cycle are 3 (three!) full
releases.
Noone knows who will be on which end of the market in five years.
Five years ago DB2 on Unix/Windows had a marketshare of less than 5% and was in
Version 2. Oracle chose to ignore DB2's existence back then.
Now DB2 has tripled in market share and one look at the Oracle homepage is enough
to see the change.
In five years DB2 can easily be in a position to be the natural path to upgrade
(not migrate) for an Informix customer if that were the plan to be chosen.
So if in five years there will be no Informix IDS V12 - so what?
And I invite you (for the third time, now) to read the more recent whitepaper I
pointed you to and which you seemingly prefer to ignore :-)
Cheers
Serge
Sam Talebbeik
Next time that you chat with IBM folks also ask them the following questions:
1) Why should IBM's database division push Informix over DB2 . Is DB2
an inferior product than Informix ?
2) Why should any database company have two major lines of database server
products, a DB2 line and an Informix line ?
3) Are you suggesting that because IBM has a commitment to support Informix
then all future potential customers should buy Informix licenses verses
DB2 licenses ?
4) Suppose you are in a sales meeting and a really important customer wants
to spend millions in database products and services. Which database will
IBM recommend - Informix or DB2 ?
5) How many ISP's (Independent Software Vendors) have committed to continue
spending money and supporting an Informix port verses a DB2 port ?
6) Last but not least, why did IBM purchase Informix in the first place?
I think once you answer this question then everything will become
crystal clear.
I am not saying that IBM will not support Informix in the near future. IBM
has a great reputation in supporting older products. Many people who answered
the original question about Informix/Oracle were trying to advise against
buying a product that may not receive as much attention as the IBM's DB2 product
line. Informix WILL NOT receive as much attention as the IBM's own DB2 product
line. Period. If you would like me to elborate on the reasons, I can, but
this post will get very lengthy.
Anyone out there who is trying to buy a database license has only three viable
alternatives these days - IBM, Oracle, MS SqlServer. I know this, you know
this, and IBM and Oracle know this too. You still do not believe me ? OK.
Just read the top story in the following link: http://www.oracle.com .
Regards,
Sam
Serge Rielau <sri...@ca.ibm.com> wrote in message news:<3B2C0F47...@ca.ibm.com>...
CSC
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Serge Rielau
You are polarizing. The world comes is shades...
DB2 is the strategic product line but there are areas where Informix IDS is ahead of DB2.
If a shop is primarily an Informix shop there is no reason to push DB2. If a shop is
agnostic, DB2 would be preferable, same as Oracle will push 9i over RDB I suppose.
If a shop needs special features of Informix then Informix is the right choice.
These special features do exist. So Informix has it's rightfull place in the product lineup.
It is too early to quantify reactions of ISV's. If they so far supported Informix and they
have working products out there, there is only one reason to cease delivering, and that is,
if there is no profit to be made.
It is the intention that ISVs expand their Informix offerings to DB2, not switch them.
>6) Last but not least, why did IBM purchase Informix in the first place?
> I think once you answer this question then everything will become
> crystal clear.
Primarily: marketshare, secondary technology and people. And yes now the answer is crystal
clear. IBM pays money for marketshare. So it will do nothing that will alienate these new
customers. Turning Informix into a deadend would be a save way to have that money go to waste
by loosing more customers than already decided to leave anyways and by loosing employees.
On the flip side the competition will to everything to scare those customers aways. Depending
on the competition "everything" may include seeding grossly false statements.
I agree that the market will end up with three players. I do not agree that the market for
niche players has dried up.
The bottom line is that I think when someone wants to read up on what's going on in the
marketplace one has to read more than one company's webpage. Especially reading the news of
the primary companies involved might be a good idea.
Cheers
Serge
Daniel A. Morgan
> pointed you to and which you seemingly prefer to ignore :-)
I read it, word for word, before I responded. Didn't you notice that I quoted it? :-)
Personally I have no axe to grind over either Informix or DB/2. I think they are both
excellent products. Certainly either is far superior to any Microsoft offering.
But be careful about quoting numbers for DB/2 on UNIX. The vast majority of those are
on AIX. The marketing question ... is who is installing it on Solaris and HP/UX. But
our purpose here is not to debate marketshare so lets just drop it.
Daniel A. Morgan
wayne
> support the product for the foreseeable future. In fact it doesn't even
> guarantee a new version. It says updates which I read as "bug fixes".
Here's the critical part from the document, if you do not read it says
"support and update" then you have language problems:
a.. Maintain existing relationships with Informix customers and business
partners, including support for and updating of current Informix products.
Shit, some people are so closed-minded it's amazing. Time to put the
blinders on!
Serge Rielau
Just wanted to point out how volatile the marketplace is and thus how hard predictions
are either way.
Are you sure you cited the whitepaper I refered to?
Your statement "I understand your loyalty to your employer. I understand you are in the
cheer leading section.", suggests that you might have missed that the post you answered
to was from "wayne" and refered to the first April 24 statement.
I do not know whether he is an IBMer and if, whether he works in marketing.
I myself am a DB2 SQL compiler developer, no cheer leading skills required,
nor the looks to do it :-)
Here are the quotes related to IDS from
http://www-4.ibm.com/software/data/informix/directions.html
Specifically note the phrase "continue to enhance, support and sell", and even more
important: "intends to continue to enhance the products beyond these commitments"
Quote:
"IBM intends to continue to enhance, sell and support IDS 7 and IDS 9. IDS 9 users may
upgrade to the upcoming 9.3 release due in the third quarter of 2001. IDS 9.3 is designed
to deliver quality, replication and performance enhancements."
Here is the general conclusion (including all Informix products)
Quote:
"Conclusion
IBM intends to continue to support the Informix products it plans to acquire and to
enhance the majority of these products to fulfill the needs of customers and business
partners. IBM is committed to meeting current Informix commitments for new releases, and
intends to continue to enhance the products beyond these commitments to meet Informix
customer requirements. IBM has a long tradition of extending customer investments by
supporting and enhancing products which our customers rely on. Customers and business
partners should be confident that their existing investments in the Informix portfolio
will be supported and enhanced as described in this paper. Over the long term, IBM
intends to integrate key
technologies from a number of different Informix products into future versions of DB2.
However, Informix customers will not be forced to migrate to DB2. When and if customers
are interested in migration, IBM will make it simple to integrate DB2 into their existing
application and information infrastructure or migrate to DB2. IBM and Informix both have
a strong history of supporting customers and business partners over the long term. This
acquisition promises to bring Informix users continued support for their products of
choice, greater financial stability from their DBMS vendor, and an exciting future with
new levels of technical innovation."
Niall Litchfield
currently committed new informix releases. They also talk about support and
updates beyond that.
I'd read that as at least another whole release of Informix and associated
patchsets.
Those who quote the OS2 example should bear in mind how long it actually
took IBM to drop it.
--
Niall Litchfield
Oracle DBA
Audit Commission UK
"Steven Toney" <sdt...@swbell.net> wrote in message
news:qXMW6.12$Hn3....@nnrp2.sbc.net...
Nuno Souto
<n-litc...@audit-commission.gov.uk> wrote:
>
>Those who quote the OS2 example should bear in mind how long it actually
>took IBM to drop it.
>
Actually, they haven't. It's still supported and receives regular
"service packs". But I wouldn't go back to it. Too little, too
late. I'm afraid that will be the future of Informix. Unfortunately.
That links with one of my strongest pet peeves with all the IBM
software rigmarole. There is no doubt in my mind their hardware is
first rate and very reliable. When it comes to software, it's a
completely different story. They have never demonstrated the
slightest commitment to really advancing anything.
The current "ardour" with DB2/UDB/DB2-400 is just a fad, probably at
the order of Gerstner&Co. The moment they get the market share they
want, they'll go back to the usual snooze.
Look at their whole mainframe s/w: still hampered and limited by the
"16Mb memory line". Sure it has workarounds. But they never bitten
the bullet and got rid of it once and for all. Darn thing was around
when I was in mainframes 25 years ago. We used to laugh about it.
Still there. Still causing problems. If > 25 years isn't enough to
fix it once and for all...
Mark Townsend
wrote on 6/15/01 1:03 PM:
Warning - Oracle Employee Bias. These are of course my own views.
Hmm - interesting disclaimer at the bottom of the last page (always read a
document backwards :-) )
"This document expresses IBM's current intentions and plans, which are
subject to change. This document is not intended to and does not create a
binding obligation of IBM to provide maintenance, support, enhancements or
upgrades for any product. Maintenance, support, enhancements or upgrades for
Informix products will be provided in accordance with and subject to the
terms of specific written agreements."
Basically as any indication of the future that IBM can be held to, the
whitepaper is not worth the electrons it consumes.
As to why IBM did it - buying Informix was the quickest way IBM could get
additional marketshare - they simply could not have spent the $1 billion any
other way and hoped to get the same result as quickly. It's a gamble that
IBM will be able to maintain this additional marktshare for the long term
(3-5 years), but I think they truely believe they will. And over 3-5 years,
a billion dollars is nothing for a company the size of IBM. Note that IBM
also had several pending court cases against Informix over patent
infringement - see
http://www.computingsa.co.za/2000/02/14/International/int09.htm - that the
new management at Informix probably didn't want to have to fight - much
easier to simply sell IBM the product than spend years in litigation, or
having to licence technology from IBM anyhow.
And forget OS/2 as an indicator - that WAS an IBM product, with deep
cultural roots in IBM. Can you say Dynix, anyone ?
Serge Rielau
I was waiting for that comment.. At least proof you read the paper.
Ever read the disclaimer on the backside of a flight ticket? Welcome to the
US...
BTW, your link just backfired:
According to Oracle IBM doesn't have any database technology they could sue
over.
Interesting.
Serge