Orbitz blames Oracle for site outage
Keith
Last I heard, PostGreSQL is still serving up domain names for the .ORG
domain name registry.
Orbitz blames Oracle for site outage:
http://news.com.com/2100-1019_3-1026450.html?tag=fd_top
also *Two Oracle executives resign* :
http://news.com.com/2100-1012_3-1026536.html?tag=fd_top
Sybrand Bakker
>Attached is the site message saying it is down due to the Oracle problem
>mentioned in CNet. Anyone have detailed info on this?
Go play somewhere else. We don't need your flames.
Sybrand Bakker, Senior Oracle DBA
To reply remove -verwijderdit from my e-mail address
Keith
internet. Perhaps you should apply for a job with A.G. John Ashcroft.
The story underscores false advertisement of sorts. To say a product is
'unbreakable', as complex as it is, is in my opinion is irresponsible.
Keith
internet. Perhaps you should apply for a job with A.G. John Ashcroft.
The story underscores false advertisement of sorts. To say a product is
'unbreakable', as complex as it is, is in my opinion, irresponsible.
Keith
Boeing 747 etc, be with certainty be called "unbreakable?" When Oracle
says that it is "unbreakable", does it mean it will never crash or be
"cracked" by hackers?
Keith wrote:
> Sir, the post was on topic. Freedom of speech is a central tenet of the
> internet. Perhaps you should apply for a job with A.G. John Ashcroft.
>
> The story underscores false advertisement of sorts. To say a product is
> 'unbreakable', as complex as it is, is in my opinion, irresponsible.
>
Billy Verreynne
> So much for the 'Unbreakable' strategy..
Duh?
Re-read your sentence. *Strategy*. That implies not a product that
cannot break, but an APPROACH that can deliver an unbreakable system
implementation.
> Last I heard, PostGreSQL is still serving up domain names for the .ORG
> domain name registry.
Last I heard, assholes are still being born. They just grow bigger as
they get older.
> Orbitz blames Oracle for site outage:
> http://news.com.com/2100-1019_3-1026450.html?tag=fd_top
And automatically you assume it is an Oracle issue?
After an o/s upgrade to a Data Warehouse some years ago, we had all
kinds of problems. Db just hanging and crashing.
I spend some time with Oracle Support tracing the problem. It was a
big issue. Mission critical corporate system down. It was escalated to
the Munich Oracle Compotence Centre. The problem was traced... and
turned out to have been caused by some friggen dumb jerk that forgot
to install a kernel patch during the o/s upgrade. Async i/o was used
by Oracle. And accepted by the kernel. But the kernel "forgot" to
inform Oracle when the async i/o completed.
Your posting kinda of remind me of that.. especially that friggen dumb
jerk part.
And this is btw not the exception.. I have many war stories about
database downtime and crashes and errors. The vast majority of times
it is caused by
a) operating system bugs
b) idiotic implementation that breaks not only Oracle strategies and
rules, but common sense too
When the shit hits the fan.. I prefer Oracle Support. And not
Microsoft Support or OEM hardware vendor support (like IBM, ICL,
Siemens, etc). The Oracle support guys I have had the pleassure to
work with (locally and Europe), go beyond the extra mile.
And this opinion is from bitter experience dealing with other support
centres.
--
Billy
Niall Litchfield
> Can any complex system crafted by fallable humans, eg. Oracle RDBMS,
> Boeing 747 etc, be with certainty be called "unbreakable?" When Oracle
> says that it is "unbreakable", does it mean it will never crash or be
> "cracked" by hackers?
I think you will find that you are preaching to the converted here. I think
that you wll find that the vast majority of Oracle professionals care little
or nothing for marketing, in the same way that most IT professionals working
with open source software (including those at Orbitz, since it runs on
linux, no doubt) recognize that Open Source is neither free nor the solution
to all the world's ills even if its advocates claim both.
--
Niall Litchfield
Oracle DBA
Audit Commission UK
Volker Hetzer
> So much for the 'Unbreakable' strategy..
Or the crossposting?
Problems happen. The difference between oracle
and other db supports is that oracle support is actually
competent and willing to help you. At least the support
guys I encountered so far. This in contrast to, for instance
cygnus support (RIP) which we bought for one year,
put in one bug request and never heard from again,
apart from the usual your-bug-has-been-received message.
Greetings!
Volker
--
While it is a known fact that programmers
never make mistakes, it is still a good idea
to humor the users by checking for errors at
critical points in your program.
-Robert D. Schneider, "Optimizing INFORMIX
Applications"
Niall Litchfield
> So much for the 'Unbreakable' strategy..
> Last I heard, PostGreSQL is still serving up domain names for the .ORG
> domain name registry.
Does it guarantee no data loss as has apparently happened in the Orbitz
case?
Noons
--
Cheers
Nuno Souto
wizo...@yahoo.com.au.nospam
"Keith" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:vhcilml...@news.supernews.com...
Steve Howard
Keith,
You are spending _way_ too much time on this stuff. You post the same
thing twice in five minutes (unless your news server is duplicating
posts), and then respond to your own post again five minutes later.
That implies to me someone who is emotional about this stuff and is
thinking about it way too much. Do I live and die by Oracle? Of
course not, I have a wife and four kids who are much more important to
me. But I (and most others, I assume) come to this group for insight
into how Oracle works. We are already working on it, or we wouldn't
come to the server newsgroup, which is in practice dedicated to
discussing technical approaches.
Did Orbitz have a crummy DBA? Maybe they have crummy queries or
application design? Maybe Oracle ORA-600'd (sic) him and he ignored
the recommendation to apply a patchset one too many times? Maybe he
is running a version about to be desupported? Who knows, maybe it was
something in Oracle.
I just don't think that you are posting this on an Oracle newsgroup as
a discussion topic per se, but as a troll. If you were, you would
post all of the news listings about Company A switching to Oracle, or
benchmark studies that say Oracle is faster, etc. I'm not sure of
your intentions, but everything you have posted up until this point
does not appear to have served anyone in the group. Maybe you are
hoping that others reading this will not speak up but just convince
their management to got to PostGre. That is how it appears anyway.
You know what they say, if one person writes it, 20 more feel the same
way and just don't speak up. I don't care which RDBMS you use, but I
just think you are trolling in this case.
Best Regards,
Steve
sybr...@yahoo.com
> Sir, the post was on topic. Freedom of speech is a central tenet of the
> internet. Perhaps you should apply for a job with A.G. John Ashcroft.
>
> The story underscores false advertisement of sorts. To say a product is
> 'unbreakable', as complex as it is, is in my opinion is irresponsible.
>
Is it more responsible and/or freedom of speech to post slanderous
unproven litigations? The link you post is merely insinuating things,
which also seem to be your prime level of expertise. As for 'freedom
of speech': I think that anyone who is posting the smearing you do,
and doesn't use his/her full name and/or a real email-addres, so is
acting like a coward and an asshole, is rather misusing freedom of
speech.
Sybrand Bakker
Senior Oracle DBA
Ryan Gaffuri
none of those articles state anything about what the problem is?
nothing is unbreakable if you use it wrong. The only reason that
article would be the least bit interesting to myself would be if there
is a problem, what the problem is and where I can get information on
either how to fix it or a work around. Other than that, I dont care.
I see these kinds of posts on Microsoft technical forums all the time.
I believe Unbreakable was meant if you were using RAC. Which meant
that if one server went down you could load balance to another. Of
course its just marketing.
So your implying that because there might be a bug in Oracle, I should
quit my job using Oracle take a lower paying job using some other
database(and yes the other DBs do pay less and in many cases ALOT
less) to prove some kind of point?
David Fitzjarrell
Your opinion has been clearly stated with each derrogatory post you
make to this newsgroup. You have absolutely no working knowledge of
Oracle, yet you persist in badmouthing the product. Why is this? Are
you paid by Postgres to plant seeds of doubt in the minds of Oracle
users in hopes these same users will become disgruntled with a robust
product that far outperforms Postgresql and jump ship? Or are you
simply a troublemaker, not happy unless you've instigated some fracas
over something you know little or nothing about?
Take your vitriolic verbiage elsewhere, "Keith". It is not welcome
here.
David Fitzjarrell
Keith
telling the world that Oracle is 'Unbreakable.'
Keith
articles from cnet, Forbes, Reuters. ??
Keith
this but objective posts.
PdV
Please cut the flaming, trolling and other wastes of time.
I know chances are near-zero, but
I dearly want to know just WHAT hit orbitz, really.
Was it really the db ?
How was it resolved ?
Did it involve any sexy stuff with RAC or Standby ?
Any reliable, verifiable source we can find this out with ?
Regards,
PdV
Morfeo Quesoverde
Attached is the site message saying it is down due to the Oracle problem
mentioned in CNet. Anyone have detailed info on this?
I'm wondering WHERE, in this message, it says anything about Oracle being
the cause of this outage ... I can't see it anywhere.
David Fitzjarrell
Daniel Morgan
Obviously you have an overabundance of testosterone leading you to a
strong desire to start a flame war over marketing hyperbole. Please
contact George W. Bush or Donald Rumsfeld. I've no doubt they could use
your talents.
We, however, are bored.
Next time try posting something ... with substance ... in the correct
usenet group ... and on topic.
Meanwhile I will inform Larry that you hold him personally responsible for
people that don't follow directions with his products.
--
Daniel Morgan
http://www.outreach.washington.edu/extinfo/certprog/oad/oad_crs.asp
damo...@x.washington.edu
(replace 'x' with a 'u' to reply)
David Fitzjarrell
knowledge. "Objective" is not the word to use for such postings.
David Fitzjarrell
"Keith" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:vhdj627...@news.supernews.com...
Keith
responsible for this? It doesn't make any sense.
Daniel Morgan wrote:
Joel Garry
A quick altavista found a techweb reference to "ditched its Sun
servers for 750 Linux-on-Intel Compaq servers".
Now, if the whole site went down, I doubt all those servers went down
(of course, there is no upper bound to stupidity, maybe they all are
plugged into regular wall sockets!). More likely, some box(es) was
running some webserver cacheing and something screwed up. Anyone care
to speculate?
jg
--
@home.com is bogus.
http://www.mhs101.pulski.k12.il.us/page4a.htm
David Fitzjarrell
Oracle9i database that stores its customers' reservations.
If it WAS an Oracle issue it wasn't with Linux.
David Fitzjarrell
"Joel Garry" <joel-...@home.com> wrote in message
news:91884734.03071...@posting.google.com...
Daniel Morgan
The CEO is always responsible. Unfortunately you and your attempts to start a
flame war are not.
Please cease and desist with your inane, off-topic, postings based on marketing
hyperbole. This, amazingly enough, is an Oracle usenet group. And if you had
something positive to say with regard to the Orbitz situation it would have been
related to cause and solution ... not oily rags and a match.
If you want to flog a competitive product by all means do so. Do it at alt.test.
Do it on your own web site. Do it in the Wall Street Journal and the NY Times
for all I care. But please stay out of c.d.o. usenet groups where some of us
actually have a desire to discuss technical issues related to this product
family.
We don't make messes in your living room ... please be courteous and don't make
messes in ours.
Thank you.
Daniel Morgan
> Sir, the post was on topic. Freedom of speech is a central tenet of the
> internet. Perhaps you should apply for a job with A.G. John Ashcroft.
>
> The story underscores false advertisement of sorts. To say a product is
> 'unbreakable', as complex as it is, is in my opinion is irresponsible.
>
> <snipped>
So are you so lets call it even and you crawl back under your rock.
Daniel Morgan
Keith wrote:
> "Vitriolic verbiage?" If you re-read my post, you will find none of
> this but objective posts.
>
> <snipped>
>
>
> > Take your vitriolic verbiage elsewhere, "Keith". It is not welcome
> > here.
> >
> > David Fitzjarrell
Then lets try something a bit more direct ... this is comp.databases.oracle.server not
comp.databases.oracle.marketing or comp.databases.oracle.hyperbole so you are off-topic.
Call it whatever you wish ... subjective, off-topic, rude, if you have nothing to contribute
go play in traffic.
In fact don't even come back here and apologize if it turns out Oracle had nothing to do
with the problem and it was caused by web servers, hardware, operating system, network, bad
programming, bad testing, or any one of thousands of other possibilities. Oh and take your
can of gasoline with you. Thanks.
Daniel Morgan
> Sir, the post was on topic. Freedom of speech is a central tenet of the
> internet. Perhaps you should apply for a job with A.G. John Ashcroft.
>
> <snipped>
Please stop trolling. No matter. I've just added you to my killfile.
Jim Kennedy
and was informed that Yup, I had found a defect, no they were not going to
fix it and supply a patch; it might be in the next release and it might not.
Whereas Oracle was willing to provide me with a patch when I had an
equivalent type show stopper bug. Once they figured out where the problem
was - and it was a lot harder to find than the one in SQL Server - I HAD A
PATCH IN 4 HOURS. (patch worked just fine)
Is someone in MySQL et al. going to provide me with that level of service
when it is critical. Nope.
Jim
--
Replace part of the email address: kennedy-down_...@attbi.com
with family. Remove the negative part, keep the minus sign. You can figure
it out.
"Volker Hetzer" <volker...@ieee.org> wrote in message
news:bf6073$qpm$1...@news.fujitsu-siemens.com...
Billy Verreynne
> That should have read "Oracle's 'Unbreakable' marketing strategy"
> telling the world that Oracle is 'Unbreakable.'
And how does that differ from your PGSQL marketing bs you spread here?
--
Billy
Norman Dunbar
>> He isn't marketing PGSQL he is giving the impression that it is for
use by
>> dysfunctional offensive idiots.
isn't that the same thing ?
Cheers,
Norman.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Norman Dunbar (at home on Linux)
Ora...@mssqlBountifulSolutions.co.uk
(Delete a Microsoft database name to reply - clue, mssql !)
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Ault
The most current data points to NIC problems...probably using BCM5700
drivers...they have a rep for causing hangs in combination with other
components on the motherborads...all sorts of posts about it on the
DELL site and other locations...but I'll bet we don't see a retraction
from Orbitz...
Mike
Hans Forbrich
> The most current data points to NIC problems...probably using BCM5700
> drivers...they have a rep for causing hangs in combination with other
> components on the motherborads...all sorts of posts about it on the
> DELL site and other locations...but I'll bet we don't see a retraction
> from Orbitz...
Or Keith <g>
Jay
How would moving off of RAC solve a NIC issue? Did it have to do
with the private interconnect? My experience with Oracle (excluding
RAC) is that it is rock solid. With RAC on Sun there are at least
three different vendors providing critical pieces to make it work
(Sun, Veritas, Oracle). This causes confusion and finger pointing.
The underlying components including cvm, dlm, and the cluster frame
work along with RAC are far from an easily supportable environment.
When problems happen it is difficult to get to the support people that
have the in depth knowledge to help solve the problem. Oracle could
probably make RAC a better product if they did support the whole
package say on a Linux platform, but I don't know how many people
would go for that.
Another problem with RAC is that the database is a single point of
failure. So, to get around that you have to have N*2 nodes for
redundancy.
It's my feeling that Oracle in a fail-over cluster or no cluster at
all with data propagation is a much more supportable, and reliable
environment. I wonder if that is the what the support staff from
Orbitz was thinking?