Stop Steve, the advertising machine
StopThisAdvertising
We all know Steve Santos. He *really* is an advertising and job-hunting machine.
A lot of us have asked him *many* times and in different ways to stop his blatant advertising.
This has been repeated for years and years now. Result: Unfortunately nada.
He just doesn't give a shit. He is only very offensive in his answers to these requests.
Also he has been 'kill-filed' by many of us. Result: Nada.
He did not get enough answers anymore, so he went hiding his identity.
He asked questions as Ron, Tom, Rachel, Kathy, Katherine, Marie, Kristine, Heather and ????
Steve has *clearly* been trolling with his questions.
Nobody can stop him from doing this. A troll like he is, can change his/hers identity over and over.
It's obvious that he is *very* determined and willing to keep on advertising.
Maybe he thinks he has the 'right' to do so because he is a 'major player' in this and other newsgroups ?
But, I think maybe he can be forced to stop the advertising-shit.
No need for arguing, shouting or flaming (this has been done and won't help).
I have a little and simple plan for this. It might work . . .
Since a couple of weeks now I am sort of 'chasing' his advertisings as some of you may have noticed.
Result: Steve is *a little* annoyed.
While he accuses me of acting like I am GOD ??? , he now wishes me 'snake-hell' ????
(If you are interested: see last thread: 'MDE file shareware?')
Well I am not pretending to be any God at all. I am also not a 'major player' in this ng, like Steve thinks he is ...
I *just* want PC DataShit to stop his advertising-shit, that's *all* I am after.
Arno R
dkintheuk
PC Datasheet
newsgroups; he's just a little low-life pretending to be God trying to make
himself look like a big person. All you need do is look at the language he
uses to obviously see this. Ignore him and eventually he will slither away
on his belly like any snake does.
Steve
PC Datasheet
"StopThisAdvertising" <StopThisAdvertising@DataShit> wrote in message
news:425e4897$0$44068$5fc...@dreader2.news.tiscali.nl...
Alan Webb
flame me as well because I've done the same thing as PCDatasheet. Jeeze,
it's almost like Donnie misses us.
--
Alan Webb
knoN...@SPAMhotmail.com
"It's not IT, it's IS"
"StopThisAdvertising" <StopThisAdvertising@DataShit> wrote in message
news:425e4897$0$44068$5fc...@dreader2.news.tiscali.nl...
Douglas J. Steele
posts under pseudonyms.
--
Doug Steele, Microsoft Access MVP
http://I.Am/DougSteele
(no e-mails, please!)
"PC Datasheet" <nos...@nospam.spam> wrote in message
news:m0w7e.5508$go4....@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
Tim Marshall
> newsgroups; he's just a little low-life pretending to be God trying to make
> himself look like a big person. All you need do is look at the language he
> uses to obviously see this.
Well, to be fair to you, you have offered me good help in the past on
cdma, but I have to say your sock puppets with the same pc datasheet sig
were a bit of an eyebrow raiser! 8) And it _was_ a regular big gun on
cdma who pointed out the repackaging of usenet posts for sale on cdma.
I personally don't mind the sig file stuff: some folks attack that with
other posters, but IMO it's legitimate and fine. I dunno about stuff on
other groups, but we all do bone headed things from time to time...
--
Tim http://www.ucs.mun.ca/~tmarshal/
^o<
/#) "Burp-beep, burp-beep, burp-beep?" - Quaker Jake
/^^ "Whatcha doin?" - Ditto "TIM-MAY!!" - Me
Ed
I'll charge you" is a blatant troll for business in a newsgroup where your
posts are usually to contain information that is free and useful (alright -
I probably don't have any useful information as yet - but I'm working on
it!).
If this is your business and you want to share free and useful information
(as you have done several times), then join the many others who are in the
same boat, and put links to their businesses in their sigs. There's one of
the "major players" in another NG whose sig points out "email replies
require payment". Personally, I don't think that should be a big deal.
I think the major issue here is what you *seem* to be communicating in a
post saying nothing more than "Email me and I can help you". If you are
offering free email one-on-one tutoring to that person, say so, and all
confusion is cleared up. If you will do nothing for free but are offering
that person a great deal on low-priced help, then say so - but you may want
to do that somewhere else!
Ed
"PC Datasheet" <nos...@nospam.spam> wrote in message
news:m0w7e.5508$go4....@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
StopThisAdvertising
You are mistaking or just trying to be funny: 'a little bending of the rules' ...
This is NOT about the sig !
check out:
http://groups.google.nl/groups?as_q=contact&as_uauthors=PC%20Datasheet%20&as_scoring=d&lr=&hl=nl
This is just blatant advertising, over and over again, more than 60 times this year only !
"If you need help ...., contact me....."
Arno R
"Alan Webb" <kno...@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht news:_4OdnQbjVvi...@comcast.com...
StopThisAdvertising
check out:
http://groups.google.nl/groups?as_q=contact&as_uauthors=PC%20Datasheet%20&as_scoring=d&lr=&hl=nl
This is just blatant advertising, over and over again, more than 60 times this year only !
"If you need help ...., contact me....."
This is NOT about the sig ! I don't mind the sig. The sig is allright !
In fact I even think it's a good and clever one.
Arno R
"Tim Marshall" <TIMMY!@PurplePandaChasers.Moertherium> schreef in bericht news:d3m2p6$6eg$1...@coranto.ucs.mun.ca...
PC Datasheet
Let me preface my response here to say that I have a high respect for you
and one reason is that you always take the high road like you did here when
you respond.
ARNO is not right. He is just a little low-life pretending to be God trying
to make himself look like a big person. All you need do is look at the
language he uses to obviously see this. Look at the similarities between him
and XMVP.
Microsoft's Rules Of Conduct state, " We ask that you refrain from posting
advertisements or solicitations that do not pertain directly to the intended
use and purpose of the newsgroup or chat." Note that it does not forbid
advertisements and solicitations! The key to what this says is to understand
the intended use and purpose of the newsgroup. There is no where that
directly states what the intended use is but the following statement is
found in Getting Started With The Web Based Newsreader, "The Web-based
Newsreader allows you to enter into discussion groups where people who are
passionate about Microsoft technologies share their thoughts, help, support,
and ideas." I expect that you would not question that I frequently share my
thoughts, support and ideas. Tim Marshall states that I have helped him in
the past. Yes I make a mistake from time to time and you catch them. And I
am sure you will confirm that I have never claimed to be a MVP. So there is
one other phrase found in Getting Started With The Web Based Newsreader,
"share their help"(sic). "Contact me if you would like my help" is an offer
of an option to the poster which he may freely accept or reject to solve his
problem at hand. I think that if you go back and review all the posts where
I have offered my help, you will find that I have never made the offer where
a simple newsgroup paragraph would have completely solved the poster's
problem. For example, Nick J posted the subject MDE File Shareware. He
wanted to know how a time limited version of his database could be created.
Can you answer this and provide him a detailed description (and code) of how
to do it in a simple newsgroup paragraph? I think not with all due respect
to you. So I offered Nick the option to contact me if he wanted me to set it
up for him. Not too long ago, a poster wanted to know how to create an order
entry database. I made the offer to him, he contacted me, I gave him a
simple database for $200 and he was very grateful. I have numerous
experiences like this.
Microsoft's Rules Of Conduct state, " We ask that you refrain from posting
advertisements or solicitations....." Microsoft distinguishes between
advertisements and solicitations. "Contact me if you would like my help" is
not an advertisement. The only advertisement I do on the newsgroups is in my
signature line and that is no different, with all due respect, than putting
"Microsoft Access MVP" after your name. Advertising is frequently seen in
the newsgroups! Any time you see a referral to a website, that is indirect
advertising because it is in most cases a referral to the website of someone
in business to develop Access database applications. Anytime you see a
reference to a third party product, that is direct advertising and no matter
what the responder says, he is endorsing that product. For the purposes of
the discussion here, I am not raising an objection of either of these
advertisements because I see them as another means of responders sharing
help pertaining directly to the intended use and purpose of the newsgroup.
"Contact me if you would like my help" is obviously a solicitation and this
solicitation is never made unless it is directly intended to share my help
with a poster.
Now you say that I "advertise blatantly". Blantantly is a little harsh don't
you think? Blantantly has the connotation of being boisterous or obtrusive.
XMVP was blatant. And as pointed out above, "Contact me if you would like my
help" is not advertising. Yes, you see "Contact me if you would like my
help" from time to time but if you determine the percentage of times you see
this to the times I respond to posters otherwise, it is a small percentage.
Finally, on this subject, I have kept my offer to help posters to eight
simple words.
What makes my posts "bogus" if I post under a pseudonym? All these posts
have been legitimate questions and when answered, the entire newsgroup
community benefited from the answers. There was nothing bogus about it!
William Shakespear was not his real name, was everything he wrote bogus?
Pope Paul II was not his real name, was everything he said, wrote and did
bogus? Apparently not, nearly three million people turned out for his
funeral!
Doug, I hope that I have not offended you here because I have no intent to
do that. I do have high respect for you and because of that felt my response
to this thread was best placed as a response to you.
Steve
PC Datasheet
"Douglas J. Steele" <NOSPAM_djsteele@NOSPAM_canada.com> wrote in message
news:uXTgfoQ...@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
Douglas J. Steele
> Yes, you see "Contact me if you would like my
> help" from time to time but if you determine the percentage of times you
> see
> this to the times I respond to posters otherwise, it is a small
> percentage.
But when your message is "contact me if you would like my help", there's no
mention that your help would not be free.
> What makes my posts "bogus" if I post under a pseudonym? All these posts
> have been legitimate questions and when answered, the entire newsgroup
> community benefited from the answers. There was nothing bogus about it!
If your intent is to provide an FAQ, do so. I don't have evidence, but I'm
sure I've often seen your self-posted questions answered not only with some
advice, but also the suggestion "contact me if you would like my help"
You must realize that even if you aren't violating the wording of the
Microsoft Rules of Conduct, you are violating the spirit. And in my opinion,
you're definitely violating the charter for comp.database.ms-access, as
reproduced at http://www.mvps.org/access/netiquette.htm
Duane Hookom
make their living from consulting. They are generally not a busy or billing
out the hours that they would like. Yet, I have not seen any of these MVPs
(or other prolific posters) attempting to pull in contract work like Steve.
The quality of their replies and their experience and knowledge is above
Steve's and yet they respect the spirit of the news groups.
I have seen some signatures that suggest something like "Reply to me here
for free advice or email me privately along with payment information". I
believe the intention of these is to deter private emails and keep
"consultations" in the News Groups for all to share freely.
--
Duane Hookom
MS Access MVP
--
"Douglas J. Steele" <NOSPAM_djsteele@NOSPAM_canada.com> wrote in message
news:eFitAVTQ...@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
Arno R
"PC Datasheet" <nos...@nospam.spam> schreef in bericht news:jbA7e.6935$sp3....@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> ARNO is not right. He is just a little low-life pretending to be God trying
> to make himself look like a big person. All you need do is look at the
> language he uses to obviously see this. Look at the similarities between him
> and XMVP.
<snip very long non-issue-bullshit-defending story of Steve>
It is true that XMVP attacked you on your advertising. A LOT of others here did also ...
You just don't give a shit ...
But I am sorry for you Steve, but there is NO other similarity between me and XMVP.
Look at yourself:
If you compare trolling well, .... you win. You have been hiding your identity a LOT.
My language is also very 'neat' compared to yours.
If one looks at my language and yours, I am sure that YOU compare with XMVP's language and not me.
BTW: I have been away from this ng a long time just because of our local troll.
I am not God, nor pretending to be so.
I am not a snake.
I *just* hate your blatant advertising, and I am very determined to 'annoy' you as long as you continue.
(I am NOT talking about your sig here as I stated before. Your sig is fine with me. )
But you obviously think YOU are some kind of a 'major contributing God ??' and you have a 'right' to job-hunt here.
Of course it is true that you also offer help in these newsgroups. But that is NOT the issue here !
The issue is that you, and only you, are the 'major advertising job-hunting machine' here.
You are lurking and waiting for questions where you think you can jump in with:
"if you need help ... contact me".
Who acts like he is a 'God' ??
Who is a 'snake'??'
Arno R
Alan Webb
Maybe so, but your insistence on debating everyone replying to you and
getting the last word surpasses whatever sins Steve has committed. It's
time to stop the flame war. Continueing it begins to demonstrate that you
are more troll than legitimate poster. I am sure you will respond to this
post as well and argue with me that I am wrong. It is your right to do so.
I am asking you to let it go.
--
Alan Webb
knoN...@SPAMhotmail.com
"It's not IT, it's IS"
"StopThisAdvertising" <StopThisAdvertising@DataShit> wrote in message
news:425ea6d0$0$44075$5fc...@dreader2.news.tiscali.nl...
Larry Linson
"StopThisAdvertising" <StopThisAdvertising@DataShit> wrote in message
news:425e4897$0$44068$5fc...@dreader2.news.tiscali.nl...
Arno R
As a founding member of this newsgroup I can tell you that advertising has
always been welcomed here. This is especially true for our MVPs who deserve
to run ads for all the good work they do. The only rule for advertising in
this newsgroup is to make sure that you put all your ads in your signature
line. If you just post URLs that seem to answer a question but actually
lead to an advertisement, that's OK too.
PC Datasheet
With all due respect, I will take one poke at you.
<< I don't have evidence, ....>>
Don't lower yourself to the level of Arno! You are far more better than him.
<<but I'm sure I've often seen your self-posted questions answered not only
with some advice, but also the suggestion "contact me if you would like my
help">>
If you don't have evidence, then why do you make such a statement? Your
statement is totally false. I have NEVER included "contact me if you would
like my help" anywhere I posted a question under a pseudonym.
> You must realize that even if you aren't violating the wording of the
> Microsoft Rules of Conduct, you are violating the spirit. And in my
opinion,
> you're definitely violating the charter for comp.database.ms-access, as
> reproduced at http://www.mvps.org/access/netiquette.htm
This is a direct quote from http://www.mvps.org/access/netiquette.htm:
"The purpose of the group will be to provide technical help to people who
use Access to create simple databases as well as to people who use VBA to
create complex databases."
It can't be any clearer than that! And I don't abuse it. When all it takes
is a simple newsgroup paragraph to help a poster, I always do that freely.
When it takes more than a simple newsgroup paragraph, I offer the poster the
option to consider hiring me. I don't gouge my customers, my fees are very
reasonable, for example, as I previously mentioned I gave that customer a
simple order entry database for $200. I have helped numerous customers who
have been very grateful. Would you like that that help be discontinued for
them?
Steve
PC Datasheet
"Douglas J. Steele" <NOSPAM_djsteele@NOSPAM_canada.com> wrote in message
news:eFitAVTQ...@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
XMVP
"Arno R" <arracomn_...@tiscali.nl> wrote in message
news:425efd9a$0$44090$5fc...@dreader2.news.tiscali.nl...
Arno R
So THAT'S what I get for sharing my Access Morons Mailing List with you?
John Marshall, MVP
news:1113528178.d9c9a9329c82562fdc2f7eaeb994597e@teranews...
>
> As a founding member of this newsgroup I can tell you that advertising has
> always been welcomed here. This is especially true for our MVPs who
> deserve to run ads for all the good work they do. The only rule for
> advertising in this newsgroup is to make sure that you put all your ads in
> your signature line. If you just post URLs that seem to answer a question
> but actually lead to an advertisement, that's OK too.
Arno was a bit over the top, but the complaint was not about advertising in
the sig line, but PCDs "call me" posts to questions without indicating that
his help was not being offered for free.
John...
PC Datasheet
intelligence shows in the language you use. Little worms always try to make
themselves look like a big person by sprinkling their language with the
**shit** word.
Steve
PC Datasheet
"Arno R" <arracomn_...@tiscali.nl> wrote in message
news:425efd9a$0$44090$5fc...@dreader2.news.tiscali.nl...
"PC Datasheet" <nos...@nospam.spam> schreef in bericht
PC Datasheet
may pass Go and collect $200. If he is not, then apparently you do not know
who that young boy was that came into the room with a low hung towel around
his waist and proceeded to .....
Steve
PC Datasheet
"XMVP" <access...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3oKdnVYu-tI...@vnet-inc.com...
PC Datasheet
expect that I was offering free help. I get "what would be your fee to ...".
The responders are apparently smart enough to put two and two together when
they see my signature line say "Your Resource For Help With Access ....." If
you want I will start saying "Contact me if you want my help. My fees are
very reasonable." Up until now that has always been obvious to all who
contacted me and I have avoided that to not be obtrusive.
Steve
PC Datasheet
"John Marshall, MVP" <lanc...@stonehenge.ca> wrote in message
news:#cei7wVQ...@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
Stephen Lebans
Such an act of cowardice is what you would expect from a Troll.
--
Stephen Lebans
http://www.lebans.com
Access Code, Tips and Tricks
Please respond only to the newsgroups so everyone can benefit.
"Larry Linson" <nos...@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:1113528178.d9c9a9329c82562fdc2f7eaeb994597e@teranews...
>
Keith
anyone but ...
IMHO a one liner saying 'this is too difficult to resolve here, contact me
if you want my help' is just a little too far the wrong side of the line for
me. A while ago I tried to help someone on here and the thread ended up
running to about 20 postings, just me and this other person. At the end,
she e-mailed me via my web site and asked me to take the project on. I
accepted and made money out of it. At no point did I say 'contact me if you
want my help', the free option always came first.
I usually include a link to my web site in postings and I have had people
approach me but I don't actively encourage it. This to me encapsulates the
'spirit' of this ng another poster has spoken of.
2p supplied.
Keith.
"PC Datasheet" <nos...@nospam.spam> wrote in message
news:m0w7e.5508$go4....@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
Tim Marshall
> you want I will start saying "Contact me if you want my help. My fees are
> very reasonable." Up until now that has always been obvious to all who
> contacted me and I have avoided that to not be obtrusive.
That would simply be more of a violation of the group charter/FAQ than
what you've been doing. Why not stop altogether?
Tim Marshall
> Arno,
> Maybe so, but your insistence on debating everyone replying to you and
> getting the last word surpasses whatever sins Steve has committed.
I have to disagree with you, Alan. The FAQ says Steve's behaviour is a
violation of the group charter. The big guns respect the charter and
don't do it, so why should Steve be permitted to do it without the
standard usenet response?
Craig Hornish
Just wanted to post and opposite view of the way Steve handles this
situation.
1. I can't believe it is a big problem that anyone who contacts Steve,
doesn't have some idea that that he is in business and it will probably cost
them to design their database. I think it is apperent with the name, and
website.
2. In the post that he is responding to that contain the "Contact me"
are post that other people have responded to in a similar way. They say
something like "With what your are asking for would require you to hire
someone. Give us smaller parts of the problem:"
3. Many people have said they will not accept other peoples files. I
assume Steve would.
4. He does answer other posts, no matter what you think of them. So he
is contributing more than just an advertising platform for his signature.
Just like anyone else with a webpage link or even an MVP (I can give a
little on the MVP but it is still a form of advertising). On a quick look
he is well over 70% straight answers compaired to "contact me".
5. The posts are all responces not a stand alone post. Maybe not a big
distinction but it doesn't clutter up any lines in my Outlook Express. Only
if you open a thread do you see those posts. So it really is not that
batent.
I just read a little about the pseudonyms and will not comment on that part.
JMHO
Craig Hornish
"StopThisAdvertising" <StopThisAdvertising@DataShit> wrote in message
news:425e4897$0$44068$5fc...@dreader2.news.tiscali.nl...
Tim Marshall
> Your case your lack of
> intelligence shows in the language you use. Little worms always try to make
> themselves look like a big person by sprinkling their language with the
> **shit** word.
And what of people who resort to baseless personal attacks and name
calling (in the post to which I am responding and others of yours on
this thread) which are _not_ based on the target's material/missives
posted on the usenet group in question?
I would say that sort of behaviour is somewhat similar to a young boy
caught with his hands on the cookie jar or found in the bathroom trying
to sneak a cigarette...
8)
Douglas J. Steele
It's mine to dislike your methods. End of discussion, as far as I'm
concerned.
--
Doug Steele, Microsoft Access MVP
http://I.Am/DougSteele
(no e-mails, please!)
"PC Datasheet" <nos...@nospam.spam> wrote in message
news:rWE7e.5770$go4....@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
Darryl Kerkeslager
> 4. He does answer other posts, no matter what you think of them. So he
> is contributing more than just an advertising platform for his signature.
> Just like anyone else with a webpage link or even an MVP (I can give a
> little on the MVP but it is still a form of advertising). On a quick look
> he is well over 70% straight answers compaired to "contact me".
I would not call the MVP sig advertising in any way. From what I have seen
of the quality of posts from those with the MVP sig, it is well-deserved
recognition of their expertise and their helpfulness. To a newbie to this
group, or to any other MS-related group, it is a good indicator that the
person who is replying to you knows what the hell they are talking about.
If I were to go to a SQL Server, Word, Excel, or Outlook group, knowing none
of the posters, I would know right away that I could rely on the post from a
person who has the MVP designation. Nothing is universal, but from this NG,
that is my experience. For what its worth, and I know I have not read every
post, I do not recall ever having seen one of the MVPs flame, or be
discourteous (unnecessarily). Further, I have seen quite a number of humble
"I don't knows".
The MVP sig is a service and a recognition *by others*. That's quite
different.
--
Darryl Kerkeslager
Power corrupts.
Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Knowledge is power.
See www.adcritic.com/interactive/view.php?id=5927
John Marshall, MVP
news:%23r01N3f...@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> Hi,
> Just wanted to post and opposite view of the way Steve handles this
> situation.
>
> 1. I can't believe it is a big problem that anyone who contacts Steve,
> doesn't have some idea that that he is in business and it will probably
> cost them to design their database. I think it is apperent with the name,
> and website.
The issue is the solicitation. If one person does it, why can't everyone and
you will end up with a newsgroup full of ads rather than questions and
answers.
> 2. In the post that he is responding to that contain the "Contact me"
> are post that other people have responded to in a similar way. They say
> something like "With what your are asking for would require you to hire
> someone. Give us smaller parts of the problem:"
That is two different scenarios. The first is looking for business and the
second is indicating that the request is vague and the poster would get free
help if he could be more specific in his questions.
> 3. Many people have said they will not accept other peoples files. I
> assume Steve would.
Without knowing the author, unsolicited files should never be accepted.
> 4. He does answer other posts, no matter what you think of them. So he
> is contributing more than just an advertising platform for his signature.
> Just like anyone else with a webpage link or even an MVP (I can give a
> little on the MVP but it is still a form of advertising). On a quick look
> he is well over 70% straight answers compaired to "contact me".
As a member of the newsgroup he does help out and there is no issue with
having a bit of advertisement in a signature line. The MVP tag line is just
a means of indicating an individual that Microsoft has recognized for their
voluntary contributions in the newsgroups. So it lets users know that if the
poster is an MVP that the answer should be good (and free). The percentage
of straight to ads is immaterial. The "contact me" messages just tarnish
any good will the straight messages convey.
> 5. The posts are all responces not a stand alone post. Maybe not a big
> distinction but it doesn't clutter up any lines in my Outlook Express.
> Only if you open a thread do you see those posts. So it really is not
> that batent.
With one message it is not a big deal, but if this type of action becomes
the norm then users will waste time downloading these messages (yes there
still are people using dial up) and reading them. You still have to open
these messages to see that it is a solicitation. Of course, he could be kill
filed, but that will also remove any of his postive posts.
> I just read a little about the pseudonyms and will not comment on that
> part.
I have no problem with pseudonyms. If he does not like his name, that is his
business.
> JMHO
>
> Craig Hornish
Thank you for at least stating the case in a more polite manner than Arno.
John...
PC Datasheet
This is a direct quote from http://www.mvps.org/access/netiquette.htm:
"The purpose of the group will be to provide technical help to people who
use Access to create simple databases as well as to people who use VBA to
create complex databases."
It can't be any clearer than that! And I don't abuse it. When all it takes
is a simple newsgroup paragraph to help a poster, I always do that freely.
When it takes more than a simple newsgroup paragraph, I offer the poster the
option to consider hiring me. I don't gouge my customers, my fees are very
reasonable, for example, as I previously mentioned I gave that customer a
simple order entry database for $200. I have helped numerous customers who
have been very grateful. Would you like that that help not be available to
them anymore? Or is the real gripe that I don't mention there will be a fee?
If that is it, I will start saying "Contact me if you would like my help. My
fees are very reasonable."
Steve
PC Datasheet
"Tim Marshall" <TIMMY!@PurplePandaChasers.Moertherium> wrote in message
news:d3p6pc$fdg$2...@coranto.ucs.mun.ca...
PC Datasheet
Thank you for your response!
Steve
PC Datasheet
"Craig Hornish" <te...@cap-associates.com> wrote in message
news:#r01N3fQ...@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
PC Datasheet
Thank you too for stating your views in a polite manner!
Steve
PC Datasheet
"John Marshall, MVP" <lanc...@stonehenge.ca> wrote in message
news:#FUV8fgQ...@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
Andreas
here and admittedly am not particularly newsgroup savy or familiar with
netiquette other than watching what other people do and common sense.
But here it is anyway.
1) In respect to the following comment:
"The posts are all responces not a stand alone post. Maybe not a big
distinction but it doesn't clutter up any lines in my Outlook Express.
Only if you open a thread do you see those posts."
Well, I don't usually have the threads grouped and the number of posts
in regards to this are getting to be many! Kind of self-defeating! And
yes, I am now contributing to this :-)
2) I am not sure of all the facts but it seems there is an admission of
using pseudonyms. Whilst I don't have a problem with someone using a
pseudonym (as per examples given by Steve), using multiple pseudonyms
and/or using a pseudonym in conjunction with one's real identity in the
context of this newsgroup amounts to deceit as far as I am concerned.
3) I think a simple solution to all of this would be:
- Post as 1 identity, using your company identity. The more legitimate
posts/answers, the more advertising.
- Remove the e-mail address and any "contact me" messages and only use
the website address as part of the signature, which in conjunction with
the below point should be "reasonable" use. This way there is no
solicitation, yet contact details are available. I don't know about
anyone else, but if I see an interesting post and there is a link
available, I will go and have a look.
4) Instead of bickering here and spending lots of time posting "fake"
messages, etc... the time could be spent putting content on the "Tips
and Tricks" section of the website. This would make any linking
legitimate. If desingned properly, the links could go to related content
whilst the page still provides the menu showing the available options
(hey, I am for hire, can I help you?).
5) Somewhat on a different track. I just had a look at the website. Just
as a little comment. The "Tips and Tricks" logo looks a lot like the
logo Microsoft uses. I don't have a problem with that whatsoever but
would suggest checking on the legality of this.
This is all I can think of right now without wading through all the
posts but may be it provides a solution for everybody. If not, I had a
chance to practice my typing skills and give my 5 cents worth.
Andreas
Arno R
"PC Datasheet" <nos...@nospam.spam> wrote in message news:3mY7e.7485$sp3....@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> Tim,
>
> This is a direct quote from http://www.mvps.org/access/netiquette.htm:
> "The purpose of the group will be to provide technical help to people who
> use Access to create simple databases as well as to people who use VBA to
> create complex databases."
> And I don't abuse it.
> It can't be any clearer than that!
Indeed, I can't be clearer. Look for yourself and look also at the group charter/FAQ
http://groups.google.nl/groups?as_q=contact&as_uauthors=PC%20Datasheet%20&as_scoring=d&lr=&hl=nl
> When all it takes
> is a simple newsgroup paragraph to help a poster, I always do that freely.
If you mean you don't advertise when simple questions are involved, this is simply NOT true.
If you want examples just ask.
The point is that there is NO justification for blatant job-hunting and advertising .
The fact that you answer questions is NOT relevant here.
> When it takes more than a simple newsgroup paragraph, I offer the poster the
> option to consider hiring me.
It is very obvious indeed that one can hire you. (You pointed this out yourself didn't you ?)
Your sig is clearly inviting (It's a good sig actually...)
***************************************
But: IMO your 'current' sig should be enough. There has been enough 'rumour' about 'earlier' sigs remember ?
> Would you like that that help not be available to
> them anymore? Or is the real gripe that I don't mention there will be a fee?
Well Steve. others can and will help also.
IMO It won't be a *great* loss for this ng if you would not be available...
The real gripe is that you are job-hunting over and over again and that you don't give a shit about people telling you that this is NOT done.
You are acting as this group can't do without your help.(Major contributer, sic)
Well, you are not offering that *much* help for free.
For instance check out your website, there is not *much* to get there.
'Access-Excel Tips' When you click it it says: "Coming soon". Nice.
You have gathered enough code or not ?
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=_aCJd.5884%24r27.4449%40newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net
Instead of saying "I have something that you want" and sell free code for $125,-- you could do different like other 'real' major players here do.
Arno R
Tim Marshall
> This is a direct quote from http://www.mvps.org/access/netiquette.htm:
> "The purpose of the group will be to provide technical help to people who
> use Access to create simple databases as well as to people who use VBA to
> create complex databases."
But it also says:
"The following are specifically forbidden in the CDMA newsgroup:
"* Advertising of any kind, even if the product is free, a demo, or
otherwise. You may answer a question with a link to a commercial site
which pertains to the question. You may also add a phrase and/or link in
your signature."
> When it takes more than a simple newsgroup paragraph, I offer the poster the
> option to consider hiring me.
And that is advertising which is in clear violation of the FAQ and
newsgroup charter.
> I don't gouge my customers, my fees are very
> reasonable,
I don't doubt that - however, what you have described is advertising.
The FAQ, however, offers you a way out of these clear violations.
--
Tim http://www.ucs.mun.ca/~tmarshal/
^o<
/#) "Burp-beep, burp-beep, burp-beep?" - Quaker Jake
/^^ "What's UP, Dittoooooo?" - Ditto
Charlie Tame
NG (Getting Started) because I was contemplating using Access (due almost
entirely to the fact that I have it installed, not because I like it) and
asked a general question of those who are likely to know.
I scanned the existing posts first, as is expected, and it became
immediately obvious that you are little more than a self appointed
"Authority", self opinionated, and likely to be the kind of person who
insists their advice is good even when proven otherwise. Furthermore it soon
appeared that you were simply "Advertising" and like most spammers of that
disposition, probably advertising nothing more than intellectually stolen
material for which you would claim the credit. In short, about on the same
level as a "Script Kiddie" calling himself a "Hacker".
As for everyone else here I appreciated their answers and their efforts to
render assistance. It's about a desire to help others, not about proving
some vast "Knowledge" or advertising. I imagine those who genuinely need and
appreciate tips or hints soon spot this and, like me, quickly choose who to
ignore. The really good people here don't need to advertise, so it says
something about you that you feel the need to do so :) - doesn't take a
genius to spot that really.
Generally, when joining a new discussion group I allow every contributor the
same amount of respect and adjust that level according to their behaviour.
Suffice to say that in my humble opinion at least you do yourself a
disservice! In short, your blatant advertising works backwards!
Have a nice day
Charlie
Follow-ups limited to "Getting Started"
PC Datasheet
Notice the word PRODUCT! It is very clear what this means. Referring to a
"demo" clearly defines product as a physical entity and not a service. This
is consistent with ""The purpose of the group will be to provide technical
help....." Promoting a product is not providing technical help.
<< I don't doubt that - however, what you have described is advertising.>>
Microsoft's Rules Of Conduct state, " We ask that you refrain from posting
advertisements or solicitations that do not pertain directly to the intended
use and purpose of the newsgroup ...." Microsoft clearly delineates between
advertisements and solicitations. "* Advertising of any kind, even if the
product is free, a demo, or otherwise ...." is again consistent with
Microsoft. "Contact me if you would like my help" promotes no product; it is
a solicitation and it conforms completely with the charter of the newsgroup,
"The purpose of the group will be to provide technical help to people who
use Access to create simple databases as well as to people who use VBA to
create complex databases."
Finally, one can not wonder what is the real motivation for complaining
about "Contact me if you would like my help". Recently the following three
posts appeared in the newsgroup:
World First Cancer Immune Booster
International Moitivation Survey
New Affiliate Program 80% Commission
and not a one of the "MVPs" who responded in this thread responded to any of
those three posts. Those three posts were obviously not related to MS Access
and therefore obviously in violation of the Rules of Conduct yet no MVP
responded to any of them.
Steve
PC Datasheet
"Tim Marshall" <TIMMY!@PurplePandaChasers.Moertherium> wrote in message
news:d3psf6$h28$1...@coranto.ucs.mun.ca...
rkc
> Finally, one can not wonder what is the real motivation for complaining
> about "Contact me if you would like my help". Recently the following three
> posts appeared in the newsgroup:
> World First Cancer Immune Booster
> International Moitivation Survey
> New Affiliate Program 80% Commission
> and not a one of the "MVPs" who responded in this thread responded to any of
> those three posts. Those three posts were obviously not related to MS Access
> and therefore obviously in violation of the Rules of Conduct yet no MVP
> responded to any of them.
The people that post messages like those you point out aren't interested
in reading replies. They are just interested in posting a message to as
many places as possible. A reply would be an empty gesture. Most people
realize that.
Apparently those who replied to this thread thought there may still be
some hope for you.
StopThisAdvertising
Where I live there is a saying (translated):
"You can never talk it straight when it's bended..."
Think about it and give up your "contact me ..."
Arno R
"PC Datasheet" <nos...@nospam.spam> schreef in bericht news:hm98e.10616$44....@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
Keith
> Craig,
>
> Thank you for your response!
>
Why not thank me for mine, because you didn't like what you read?
Larry Linson
> Microsoft's Rules Of Conduct state,
> " We ask that you refrain from posting
> advertisements or solicitations that do
> not pertain directly to the intended
> use and purpose of the newsgroup
> or chat."
Steve, I am reading this post in comp.databases.ms-access, where you and
your sockpuppets often post, and advertise, as well as in the Microsoft
newsgroups. I refer you to the very same FAQ whose link you provided to a
user in a different thread: http://www.mvps.org/access/netiquette.htm. That
is what applies in CDMA, not the sponsored newsgroup rules.
Microsoft can, if they wish, put a stop to your posting -- if it is as
bothersome as some say, then they should complain to Microsoft. As for
posting advertising here, they should complain to your ISP and news server.
Larry
Larry Linson
> This is a direct quote from http://www.mvps.org/access/netiquette.htm:
> "The purpose of the group will be to
> provide technical help to people who
> use Access to create simple databases
> as well as to people who use VBA to
> create complex databases."
This, too, is a direct quote, and it is what you violate in CDMA. And, if it
is "bad form" in CDMA, it is also "bad form" in the sponsored newsgroups.
"The following are specifically forbidden in the CDMA newsgroup:
- Advertising of any kind, even if the product is free, a demo, or
otherwise. You may answer a question with a link to a commercial site which
pertains to the question. You may also add a phrase and/or link in your
signature.
- Job Postings of any kind, regardless if the posting is for help wanted or
someone looking for work.
a. You may, however, through your regular contributions to the group
find that you are solicited via e-mail with opportunities.
b. There are a variety of resources available to you via other avenues.
www.Dice.com is one such resource. Although not endorsed by this newsgroup,
it has certainly enabled a number of our participants."
Steve, I have asked you, a number of times, privately and politely, to cease
and desist with using the newsgroups as though they were your private
classified/display ads. Now a number of others have also asked. Will you
please stop trying to defend your indefensible position so we do not have to
try to get your ISP and news server to enforce their Terms of Service or
Authorized Use Policy?
We can, you know, also contact Microsoft's sponsored newsgroup
administrators and ask that they block you from those newsgroups -- it is
clear that you have violated the spirit of those groups sufficiently to
warrant that. You should count yourself lucky that no one has already done
so.
Why don't you go back to answering questions, not offering your paid help at
some point, and using a tasteful, no more than four lines, SIG with contact
information. If you have provided good answers, then people are likely to
contact you if they know you are in the database/development business.
Think that over, and, if you decide it is good advice, follow it. If you do
not, I suspect you had best be prepared for some to begin the flamewar
discussed in these threads and for others to complain to your ISP and news
server.
Larry Linson
"Larry Linson" <nos...@nospam.net>
but by someone impersonating him.
> As a founding member of this newsgroup
> I can tell you that advertising has always
> been welcomed here. This is especially
> true for our MVPs who deserve to run
> ads for all the good work they do. The
> only rule for advertising in this newsgroup
> is to make sure that you put all your ads
> in your signature line. If you just post
> URLs that seem to answer a question
> but actually lead to an advertisement,
> that's OK too.
This was posted by an impersonator. The views that I supposedly endorse are
what Don P Mellon, XMVP, and other sockpuppets have claimed were the case.
Some might cut some slack for regular, frequent, helpful posters here, if
they broke the rules. That would be because of their heavy contributions
over time. But they do not break the rules because they respect the rules
and the spirit of the newsgroup.
Don P Mellon, XMVP, and his other sockpuppets, like PC Datasheet and his set
of sockpuppets, have no respect for the rules nor the spirit of the
newsgroup. The Mellon personae view it as a ground to carry out a vendetta
against helpful participants and the PC Datasheet personae seem to view it
as a source for salable information and his personal point of contact for
soliciting business.
Larry
Neil
>>advertising.<<
Think about it: why would he *need* to keep on advertising?? Most of us get
clients and retain relationships with them. From time to time we need new
clients, but not continuously. Someone who has a continuous need to get new
clients obviously has trouble holding onto them. That should tell everyone
something.
Neil
Neil
> on his belly like any snake does.
But you're still here. So that doesn't make sense.