Reduction in the Quality of Informix Support
David Linthwaite
In the UK it has recently transpired that IBM are refusing to provide
direct support to their UK business partners and customers, where that
support contract has been purchased through one particular,
IBM-appointed UK distributor. This is already affecting the level of
Informix support that a number of business partners can provide to their
customers, and by extension the level of service the customer is
receiving from IBM.
Most partners and customers will be unaware of this change, as IBM has
not announced it. Instead, the problem will become apparent only when
the customer/partner tries to place an Informix support call with IBM
Informix support.
This is a very significant change to the way in which support has
traditionally been handled and is an example of IBM reneging on its
promise in its Whitepaper to continue its commitment to support its
customer and partner base.
Does anybody know a possible reason for this sudden, unilateral and
unannounced reduction in IBM's commitment to Informix service levels?
Regards
David Linthwaite
Lintel Software Consultancy Ltd
IBM Business Partner
Tel: 01244 316297
Fax: 01244 357248
mailto:dlint...@lintel.co.uk
sending to informix-list
Geezer From Freezer
David Linthwaite wrote:
SNIP
>
> Does anybody know a possible reason for this sudden, unilateral and
> unannounced reduction in IBM's commitment to Informix service levels?
>
Probably money is the reason, as always!
Colin Bull
David Linthwaite wrote
> In the UK it has recently transpired that IBM are refusing to provide
> direct support to their UK business partners and customers, where that
> support contract has been purchased through one particular,
> IBM-appointed UK distributor.
And the obvious question is, which particular distributor is this !!
Colin Bull
c.b...@videonetworks.com
sending to informix-list
de Stomerij
> David Linthwaite wrote
> > In the UK it has recently transpired that IBM are refusing to provide
> > direct support to their UK business partners and customers, where that
> > support contract has been purchased through one particular,
> > IBM-appointed UK distributor.
>
> And the obvious question is, which particular distributor is this !!
OpenPSL.
I have heard that the reason is reduced headcount from IBM for
Informix support. I do not know if this is so.
Also, it is said that IBM have no record of which customers have been
sold support by OpenPSL. Maybe they worry about this ...
The Sneeze
> "Colin Bull" <c.b...@videonetworks.com> wrote:
>>David Linthwaite wrote:
>>
>>>In the UK it has recently transpired that IBM are refusing to provide
>>>direct support to their UK business partners and customers, where that
>>>support contract has been purchased through one particular,
>>>IBM-appointed UK distributor.
>>
>>And the obvious question is, which particular distributor is this !!
>
> OpenPSL.
>
> I have heard that the reason is reduced headcount from IBM for
> Informix support. I do not know if this is so.
>
> Also, it is said that IBM have no record of which customers have been
> sold support by OpenPSL. Maybe they worry about this ...
Is OpenPSL (or any other reseller) allowed to sell direct IBM support,
or are they supposed to provide the first lines of support? The way I
heard it, OpenPSL customers are supposed to go to OpenPSL for support;
only complex cases get referred on to IBM/Informix?
People like the discount that OpenPSL provides on software, but aren't
so keen on the reduced support service, perhaps? Colin hit the nail
on the head - it's about money...
If you want direct support from IBM/Informix, buy direct support
directly from IBM/Informix? If you want cheap support, go where you
like to get it - you get what you pay for?
Ah-choo!
Neil Truby
news:HEu6c.47430$aT1....@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> Is OpenPSL (or any other reseller) allowed to sell direct IBM support,
> or are they supposed to provide the first lines of support? The way I
> heard it, OpenPSL customers are supposed to go to OpenPSL for support;
> only complex cases get referred on to IBM/Informix?
To answer the second question first, that's what I've been told, too. All
calls must go to OpenPSL. It has been made clear that no matter how
complex, drawn-out or critical to the business of the end user (the IBM
customer!) the problem is, the end user or their IBM Business Partner will
*never* be allowed to talk directly to IBM Informix tech Support. Imagine
trying to fix a down system under those circumstances ...!
To address your the question: you misunderstand the situation. OpenPSL is
not a reseller, it is a distributor. OpenPSL cannot and does not sell to
end users. The IBM Business Partner chooses through which (IBM approved)
distributor to source an order. The customer has no say in this choice, and
is almost always unaware which distributor has in fact been used to fulfill
his order.
> If you want direct support from IBM/Informix, buy direct support
> directly from IBM/Informix? If you want cheap support, go where you
> like to get it - you get what you pay for?
1. The idea that to get entitlement to full-blown product it must *only* be
bought directly from the manufacturer violates every principle of a
distribution channel! Did you buy your road tax through The Post Office
rather than direct from DVLA? Sorry, mate, it's invalid, you'll have to go
to prison!
2. I have not bought "cheap support". My customer has ordered IBM Informix
Tech Support from me, and I have ordered for him, as it says on my invoice
from OpenPSL, product code (E00PCLL IBM INFORMIX DYNAMIC SERVER ENTERPRISE
ED CONCSESSION ANNUAL SW MAINT RNWL). Whether I fulfill the order direct or
through an IBM-approved distributor he is buying the same commodity.
3. Think of this from the point of view of the end user whom IBM seem to be
forgettting is also actually their customer. He places his order for IBM
Informix with an IBM-approved business partner. He has no say whatever
whether his order is fulfilled through Distributor A or Distributor B, nor
will he know after the fact. If his order was fulfilled through Distributor
A, he will receive E00PCLL IBM INFORMIX SW MAINT, and a full service from
IBM. If it is sourced through Distributor B, he will receive E00PCLL IBM
INFORMIX SW MAINT, but IBM will refuse direct calls to its IBM Informix
support technicians, no matter how business-critical his problem.
How is that fair then?
Malc P
> "Colin Bull" <c.b...@videonetworks.com> wrote in message news:<c3cfs2$t97$1...@terabinaries.xmission.com>...
> > David Linthwaite wrote
> > > In the UK it has recently transpired that IBM are refusing to provide
> > > direct support to their UK business partners and customers, where that
> > > support contract has been purchased through one particular,
> > > IBM-appointed UK distributor.
> >
> > And the obvious question is, which particular distributor is this !!
>
> OpenPSL.
>
> I have heard that the reason is reduced headcount from IBM for
> Informix support. I do not know if this is so.
I was at the UK site in West London on Wednesday and had a tour of the
tech support area. There's lots of names still there I can remember
speaking to in 1995 and the level of morale and enthusiasm looks
pretty good to me.
There's too much FUD, if you ask me. It just takes one person to say
"I have heard from someone who was told by someone that...." and it
immediately becomes indistinguishable from fact.
My experience of tech support has been excellent lately.
>
> Also, it is said that IBM have no record of which customers have been
> sold support by OpenPSL. Maybe they worry about this ...
Surely that's up to OpenPSL to manage? Can't blame IBM for that.
Malc
Neil Truby
news:8c28402a.0403...@posting.google.com...
> I was at the UK site in West London on Wednesday and had a tour of the
> tech support area. There's lots of names still there I can remember
> speaking to in 1995 and the level of morale and enthusiasm looks
> pretty good to me.
> There's too much FUD, if you ask me. It just takes one person to say
> "I have heard from someone who was told by someone that...." and it
> immediately becomes indistinguishable from fact.
You're right, Malc, that's exactly how rumours start. Remember though that
in this case IBM has (still) made no formal announcement at all about this
radical, unilteral and arbitary reduction in the quality of support to some
of its customers, so it should hardly be surprised if people assume the
worst.
> My experience of tech support has been excellent lately.
Because you're a Passport Advantage customer, fulfilled through a different
distributor. PA customers, which include all of IBM's direct customers, are
not affected.
malcolm weallans
'twas ever so. There have always been problems with users wanting to
get support from Informix but forced to buy through the channels. Then
they can't get tech support when they need it. And it's a very easy
mechanism to hide behind. The customer goes to their IBM Business
partner, who in turn goes to the distributor, who in turn goes to IBM.
And by the time IBM engineers get a description of the problem it is
garbled beyond belief. Nothing ever gets fixed.
I do wish this industry would learn that "customer support" is a two-way
street. If you give the customers good support then the customers will
support you. But if you make it difficult for customers to do business
with you then they will go elsewhere.
I sometimes wonder if IBM really want to keep the Informix customers who
purchase through channels etc. They only seem to be interested in the
BIG customers, or am I being totally cynical?
Malcolm
sending to informix-list
Data Goob
friend that Informix is dead. But this friend
said he heard it from their cousin who was a
DBA that got laid off, so there's no proof of it,
just something I heard.
"Malc P" <mal...@btinternet.com> wrote in message news:8c28402a.0403...@posting.google.com...
Data Goob
of choices to choose from if we have to go to "the other guys".
malcolm weallans wrote:
> 'twas ever so. There have always been problems with users wanting to
> get support from Informix but forced to buy through the channels. Then
> they can't get tech support when they need it. And it's a very easy
> mechanism to hide behind. The customer goes to their IBM Business
> partner, who in turn goes to the distributor, who in turn goes to IBM.
> And by the time IBM engineers get a description of the problem it is
> garbled beyond belief. Nothing ever gets fixed.
>
This never happened to us, we went directly to Informix Tech Support.
> I do wish this industry would learn that "customer support" is a two-way
> street. If you give the customers good support then the customers will
> support you. But if you make it difficult for customers to do business
> with you then they will go elsewhere.
>
Informix had the same problem a lot of vendors have, they have a presales
relationship that is different from post-sales. The relationship that
built the sale can typically disappear after the money changes hands. This
had a lot to do with some old-style business models of the 80's and 90's,
and there are still a lot of vendors behaving badly, not just IBM or Informix.
> I sometimes wonder if IBM really want to keep the Informix customers who
> purchase through channels etc. They only seem to be interested in the
> BIG customers, or am I being totally cynical?
>
The reality of a 3% market share vs 30% market share, what would you do?
IBM did the right thing, they absorbed the Informix market, and will
convert or alienate these customers over time.
Neil Truby
news:YcC6c.24180$3M1....@fe29.usenetserver.com...
> We have had good experience from IBM Tech Support. It is a small basket
> of choices to choose from if we have to go to "the other guys".
Who do you mean by "The Other Guys"?
Colin Bull
Malc P
>
> I was at the UK site in West London on Wednesday and had a tour of the
> tech support area. There's lots of names still there I can remember
> speaking to in 1995 and the level of morale and enthusiasm looks
> pretty good to me.
> There's too much FUD, if you ask me. It just takes one person to say
> "I have heard from someone who was told by someone that...." and it
> immediately becomes indistinguishable from fact.
> My experience of tech support has been excellent lately.
>
We have recently migrated to 9.4 despite of IBM support. We have had half a dozen problems and I can only think of one that has been
resolved.
We have found we are put in a holding routine, ie
send the af and log files, then they have got to sort out an environment,
and 6 weeks later if we are lucky someone knowledgeable looks at the problem.
Neil Truby
That doesn't mirror my experience. The IBM Informix Tech Support people in
the UK, when you speak to them, are in my experience pretty switched on. It
is true that there are usually hoops to jump through at the start of the
problem: send the $ONCONFIG, af. files etc etc. But wouldn't you do that if
you were them too? I'm sure it saves a lot of time in many cases, but I
accept it can be irritating to start off with if you're someone who knows
your stuff.
With regard to calls running on for weeks: the call priority is defined by
the customer. So if you're not getting the response you need, ask to have
the priority raised. I've never had any problems with escalating: obviously
it's best to pick and choose the calls that are seriously lagging and not
"cry wolf" too often.
Finally, why not buy your support through a IBM Business Partner with a full
lab and all product versions available who can help you out as well?!
Enor Mouspenis
> Finally, why not buy your support through a IBM Business Partner with a
> full lab and all product versions available who can help you out as well?!
Would this be OpenPSL?
--
Enor
Obnoxio The Clown
I want to know what he means by 3% versus 30%, myself...
<sigh> Trust me to shag my box with usenet access at the time when we
have the one good ding-dong of the year... :o(
--
Ciao,
Obnoxio
Tip of the day: don't think that an in-place Linux upgrade is a likely
to be painless like an Informix in-place upgrade. :o(
Obnoxio The Clown
Moan at them. You're in control of your case's priority.
Paul Watson
>
> Neil Truby wrote:
> > "Data Goob" <data...@netscape.net> wrote in message
> > news:YcC6c.24180$3M1....@fe29.usenetserver.com...
> >
> >>We have had good experience from IBM Tech Support. It is a small basket
> >>of choices to choose from if we have to go to "the other guys".
> >
> >
> > Who do you mean by "The Other Guys"?
>
> I want to know what he means by 3% versus 30%, myself...
>
> <sigh> Trust me to shag my box
What an 'orrible image !!
> with usenet access at the time when we
> have the one good ding-dong of the year... :o(
>
> --
> Ciao,
> Obnoxio
>
> Tip of the day: don't think that an in-place Linux upgrade is a likely
> to be painless like an Informix in-place upgrade. :o(
--
Paul Watson #
Oninit Ltd # Growing old is mandatory
Tel: +44 1436 672201 # Growing up is optional
Fax: +44 1436 678693 #
Mob: +44 7818 003457 #
www.oninit.com #
Obnoxio The Clown
> Obnoxio The Clown wrote:
>
>>Neil Truby wrote:
>>
>>>"Data Goob" <data...@netscape.net> wrote in message
>>>news:YcC6c.24180$3M1....@fe29.usenetserver.com...
>>>
>>>
>>>>We have had good experience from IBM Tech Support. It is a small basket
>>>>of choices to choose from if we have to go to "the other guys".
>>>
>>>
>>>Who do you mean by "The Other Guys"?
>>
>>I want to know what he means by 3% versus 30%, myself...
>>
>><sigh> Trust me to shag my box
>
> What an 'orrible image !!
Well, it *is* the only shag I'm likely to get nowadays... :o(
Daniel Morgan
> Well, it *is* the only shag I'm likely to get nowadays... :o(
You see what happens when you associate with IBM. ;-)
--
Daniel Morgan
http://www.outreach.washington.edu/ext/certificates/oad/oad_crs.asp
http://www.outreach.washington.edu/ext/certificates/aoa/aoa_crs.asp
damo...@x.washington.edu
(replace 'x' with a 'u' to reply)
mpruet
> resolved.
>
> We have found we are put in a holding routine, ie
> send the af and log files, then they have got to sort out an environment,
> and 6 weeks later if we are lucky someone knowledgeable looks at the problem.
case numbers?
M.P.
Data Goob
Have you ever delt with either of these two for support?
IBM compares quite favorably!
"Neil Truby" <neil....@ardenta.com> wrote in message news:c3eue8$26k0ei$1...@ID-162943.news.uni-berlin.de...
Data Goob
"Obnoxio The Clown" <obn...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:c3fcn9$27rcv2$1...@ID-64669.news.uni-berlin.de...
> Neil Truby wrote:
> > "Data Goob" <data...@netscape.net> wrote in message
> > news:YcC6c.24180$3M1....@fe29.usenetserver.com...
> >
> >>We have had good experience from IBM Tech Support. It is a small basket
> >>of choices to choose from if we have to go to "the other guys".
> >
> >
> > Who do you mean by "The Other Guys"?
>
> I want to know what he means by 3% versus 30%, myself...
>
Informix 3% DB2 30%
That's what the trades are saying.
> <sigh> Trust me to shag my box with usenet access at the time when we
> have the one good ding-dong of the year... :o(
>
I was wondering what happened to you. Thought maybe the circus left
town.
:-)
> --
> Ciao,
> Obnoxio
>
> Tip of the day: don't think that an in-place Linux upgrade is a likely
> to be painless like an Informix in-place upgrade. :o(
who said Linux is painless?
Obnoxio The Clown
> "Obnoxio The Clown" <obn...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:c3fcn9$27rcv2$1...@ID-64669.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
>>Neil Truby wrote:
>>
>>>"Data Goob" <data...@netscape.net> wrote in message
>>>news:YcC6c.24180$3M1....@fe29.usenetserver.com...
>>>
>>>
>>>>We have had good experience from IBM Tech Support. It is a small basket
>>>>of choices to choose from if we have to go to "the other guys".
>>>
>>>
>>>Who do you mean by "The Other Guys"?
>>
>>I want to know what he means by 3% versus 30%, myself...
>
> Informix 3% DB2 30%
>
> That's what the trades are saying.
Well, they obviously know everything.
>><sigh> Trust me to shag my box with usenet access at the time when we
>>have the one good ding-dong of the year... :o(
>
> I was wondering what happened to you. Thought maybe the circus left
> town.
That too!
Enor Mouspenis
> Oracle, Microsoft.
>
> Have you ever delt with either of these two for support?
> IBM compares quite favorably!
I am finding IBM support outside Informix not always gooder than Oracle or
Microstof.
> "Neil Truby" <neil....@ardenta.com> wrote in message
> news:c3eue8$26k0ei$1...@ID-162943.news.uni-berlin.de...
>> "Data Goob" <data...@netscape.net> wrote in message
>> news:YcC6c.24180$3M1....@fe29.usenetserver.com...
>> > We have had good experience from IBM Tech Support. It is a small
>> > basket of choices to choose from if we have to go to "the other guys".
--
Enor
Vivek CHAUDHARY
Off lately, Informix inside support has been awful.
Vivek
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-inf...@iiug.org [mailto:owner-inf...@iiug.org] On
Behalf Of Enor Mouspenis
Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 6:36 PM
To: inform...@iiug.org
Subject: Re: Reduction in the Quality of Informix Support
Data Goob wrote:
--
Enor
sending to informix-list
Vivek CHAUDHARY
This is in US.
Colin Bull
mpruet wrote
>
> case numbers?
>
378229
391555
392442 was pulled by us because it was taking to long to jump through hoops at a critical time for us.
386317 was a downed development system where we urgently required some Stored procs by the weekend. For some unknown reason the
ontape backups failed. I begged on my knees for the instance to be marked up. At approx 1700 on a Friday night after wasting time
with all the logs and AFs I evetually spoke to an engineer who said -
"What do you expect phoning this in at this time on a Friday night"
>
> "Colin Bull" <c.b...@videonetworks.com> wrote in message
> news:<c3f2kd$7mv$1...@terabinaries.xmission.com>...
> > We have recently migrated to 9.4 despite of IBM support. We
> have had half a dozen problems and I can only think of one
> that has been
> > resolved.
> >
> > We have found we are put in a holding routine, ie
> > send the af and log files, then they have got to sort out
> an environment,
> > and 6 weeks later if we are lucky someone knowledgeable
> looks at the problem.
Colin Bull
c.b...@videonetworks.com
sending to informix-list
Colin Bull
Neil Truby wrote
>
> Finally, why not buy your support through a IBM Business
> Partner with a full
> lab and all product versions available who can help you out as well?!
>
I can hear a siren calling from across the water ....
Neil Truby
>
> Neil Truby wrote
>
> >
> > Finally, why not buy your support through a IBM Business
> > Partner with a full
> > lab and all product versions available who can help you out as well?!
> >
>
> I can hear a siren calling from across the water ....
Across the water?
We're north of the river too you know ...
In fact, we're north of the motorway, out with all the charvers and the
pikies' caravans ...