mold design
Konrad Bauer
I wonder how to create automatically the separation of the mold, for example
on an fillet ?
AFAIK there is no function to find thte silhouette of a part.
thanks
konrad...@online.de
Robert L. Heininger Sr.
Konrad,
I work for a moulding house that has a number of different CADAM applications
including SW, and I've never had the desire to waste my time and do a
complete a mold design in Solidworks. It is great for designing simple molds
for parts designed in house, but 2d Cad is also. If you say the words
"Complex Imported Solids" very frequently, you might as well toss SW in the
dumpster to save your company mega-bucks.
Finding the silhouette of a part:
ie. dislaying the outer most curves of a model in any view which can then be
used as geometry to generate parting surfaces / split lines for the cavities
of a molded part.
It's very simple and robust technique the can be done with many CAD & CAM
applications, and SW is not one of them, although I'm sure there are some
elaborate work-arounds to this simplistic proceedure.
My $.02
Bob
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Jack Sanford
>Finding the silhouette of a part:
>
>ie. dislaying the outer most curves of a model in any view which can then
be
>used as geometry to generate parting surfaces / split lines for the
cavities
>of a molded part.
>
>
>It's very simple and robust technique the can be done with many CAD & CAM
>applications, and SW is not one of them, although I'm sure there are some
>elaborate work-arounds to this simplistic proceedure.
>
Insert / Refrence Geometry/ Split line/ Silhouette.
Jack
Robert L. Heininger Sr.
I stand corrected. :-O
Now, where are the 3d curve editing and freeform surfacing tools that are
needed to use this silhoutette to generate the split line sheet bodies?
3rd party surfacers do not count.
Bob
Andy
> I stand corrected. :-O
>
> Now, where are the 3d curve editing and freeform surfacing tools that are
> needed to use this silhoutette to generate the split line sheet bodies?
>
> 3rd party surfacers do not count.
Why shouldn't 3 rd party count?
Andy
gmenzies
having difficulty dealing with core and cavity separation. specifically
the core with multiple islands or protrusions into the cavity. is there
a procedure that some one could pass along to speed up this processes .
the split line is no problem. there must be a simpler way of subtracting
all the intersecting protrusions as one unit than to select individual
ones and joining.
thanks
Robert L. Heininger Sr.
Because a person or company should not have to rely upon outside vendors to
get the job done. That would be like building half a mold and then
sub-contracting it out when you realized you don't have the equipment needed
to complete it, and I'm not talking about farming out the mold base
machining.
Robert L. Heininger Sr.
Gord,
Our solution to that SW nightmare was the purchase of Solid Designer. With it,
the situation you describe is a snap, but it is also 4x the cost of SW.
This isn't helping you, so it's up to the SW Guru's to answer this one. :-)
Long Live Cadkey!
Robert L. Heininger Sr.
<jdu...@solidworks.com> wrote:
> Robert,
>
> For somebody who spends a lot of time complaining how bad SolidWorks is at
> Mold design. You sure didn't spend much time learning the basic tools in
> SolidWorks that allow you to build molds.
Thankfully I haven't spent much time at all using SW, and instead observe
what my peers are going through while using it. I've been doing CAD/CAM for a
decade, am damn good at it, get paid accordingly, and SW is not somthing I
desire to put in my portfolio. I made that decison a few years ago when I
first seen SW. The direction I want to take my career is high-range or bust,
and nothing more inbetween. The reasons are simple, economics in a job market
soon to be flooded with SW users.
> Once you have the split line you
> have MANY "free form" surfacing techniques to create the parting surface,
>
> 3d surface Loft with tangency, and multiple guide curves.
> 3d surface sweep with guide curves and tangency
> radiate surface
> insert planar surface
>
> Using a combination of this tools you can piece together just about any
> shape/shapes. Once you have multiple surfaces you can stitch them together
> using knit surface.
>
> You can cut solids with surfaces, you can join parts together and you can
> subtract parts from one another.
Yea Joe, Whatever. Why is it then, that I have the understanding that so
many good SW users use Rhino3d as a surfacing solution? I don't suppose it's
because what you have listed above isn't enough to get the job done, right?
> And unlike Solid designer, Changes ripple through the entire mold. core,
> cavity inserts, base, all update automatically.
Changes in SW are not all they are cracked up to be due to history ordering
issues. I have watched our designers using SW waste allot of time reordering
to make changes. As far as SD goes, constraints can be applied at any time at
the users discretion during both modeling and assembley.
This gets into the history vs. explicit debate, and I'm not touching that
anytime soon, because I'm staying with explicit modelers. Period.
> I am not here to argue whether all the tools are there to build the shapes
> you need. But if you never tried > Insert / Reference Geometry/ Split line/
> Silhouette, the first command any mold maker would have jumped on, what else
> do you think you missed?
I soon is I read that post, I launced SW, gave it try, and then wiped off the
egg smeared all over my face while shutting it down. What else have I missed?
Not much, as far as I'm concerned, but the Parasolid translator comes in handy
once in a while.
> If you try to use a hammer to unscrew a bolt........
I thought it was:
"Using a hammer to drive a screw into a wall"
That's not my quote, I would not have been so tactfull! :-)
Regards,
Bob Heininger
> Robert L. Heininger Sr. <r...@buffnet.net> wrote in message
> news:3734891E...@buffnet.net...
> > Jack Sanford wrote:
> >
> > > >
> > > >Finding the silhouette of a part:
> > > >
> > > >ie. dislaying the outer most curves of a model in any view which can
> then
> > > be
> > > >used as geometry to generate parting surfaces / split lines for the
> > > cavities
> > > >of a molded part.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >It's very simple and robust technique the can be done with many CAD &
> CAM
> > > >applications, and SW is not one of them, although I'm sure there are
> some
> > > >elaborate work-arounds to this simplistic proceedure.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Insert / Refrence Geometry/ Split line/ Silhouette.
> > >
> > > Jack
> >
> > I stand corrected. :-O
> >
> > Now, where are the 3d curve editing and freeform surfacing tools that are
> > needed to use this silhoutette to generate the split line sheet bodies?
> >
> > 3rd party surfacers do not count.
> >
ROBERT G WATSON
<jdu...@solidworks.com> wrote in message
news:eVfZ2.4972$kE6....@wbnws01.ne.mediaone.net...
> Robert,
>
> For somebody who spends a lot of time complaining how bad SolidWorks is at
> Mold design. You sure didn't spend much time learning the basic tools in
> have MANY "free form" surfacing techniques to create the parting surface,
i have to jump in here and just say that not all molds are easy there not
all box`s with a hole in the side. and yes SW can do this type off mold
work.
i have done things in SD that cannot be done in SW period. our two guys who
use SW have had me put the finishing touches on there molds becuase off the
lack of advanced tools in SW to create ADVANCED part part lines not sweeps
anf lofts. parting lines that need 3d cures in space to make the gob
complete. ( i know 3d skecting is on the way thats the answer we get from
our var to)
i have fixed parts that dont come across compleate were SW get this dumb
look on the screen and begs for you to give it another try.
>
> 3d surface Loft with tangency, and multiple guide curves.
> 3d surface sweep with guide curves and tangency
> radiate surface
> insert planar surface
yep it can do this but only if curves are made on a plane or taken from the
part nothing in 3d space.
be carefull how you use the term 3d think about what it really means and you
will see that lines created in a plane do not mean 3d its when you connect
them with other lines created in other planes useing loft or swep the
joining curves may then be true 3d or they may not.
>
> Using a combination of this tools you can piece together just about any
> shape/shapes. Once you have multiple surfaces you can stitch them together
> using knit surface.
here is another big slow down in SW, as you create surfaces they should join
together where possible you should not have to go the extra step by telling
it to.
>
> You can cut solids with surfaces, you can join parts together and you can
> subtract parts from one another.
this is not big one here almost all mid range modelers can do this.
>
> And unlike Solid designer, Changes ripple through the entire mold. core,
> cavity inserts, base, all update automatically.
here is where you are dead wrong.and alot off other poeple. here is a bit
off ther web site.
"Parameters now can be attached to a model, even those from other systems,
at any time, used to drive the design change and used to communicate the
design intent. An important benefit is that the parametrics are explicit and
not hidden in a history tree. This capability provides maximum flexibility
in the application of design intent.
With this release, relations between geometrical entities such as holes,
bosses and ribs can be specified, modified and deleted at any time -- even
between different parts. Unlike conventional parametric-design systems,
SolidDesigner provides the flexibility to easily incorporate feedback from
other members of the extended product-development team without the need to
know how the model was created.
Dynamic Relations enables users to specify relationships between parts and
assemblies, as well as features and faces against reference elements such as
faces, edges or vertices. The relationships can be grouped into relation
sets and stored with the model. Relations can be created or modified at any
time in the design process on any kind of model."
in SD i choose not the system
>
> I am not here to argue whether all the tools are there to build the shapes
> you need. But if you never tried > Insert / Reference Geometry/ Split
line/
> Silhouette, the first command any mold maker would have jumped on, what
else
> do you think you missed?
not much. it isnt there.
joe im not stupid and either are you, the tools to design certain mold are
not there you know it and bob h and i know it and alot lot off other people
on here know it, this is fact, no one who really knows SW and molds can say
different or they would be stating there inexperence in mold design, witch
is fine beacuse i dont know noting about sheet metal so if there was a
discution on that topic i would shut up and learn what the poeple who do
this type off work have to say.
>
> If you try to use a hammer to unscrew a bolt........
hey thats my line and its, you can use a hammer to put a screw in the wall
put its not the right right toll for the job. (lol)
>
>
> Joe Dunne
> SolidWorks
>
>
>
>
the topic we all really need to get on is file translation and put some real
heat on the companys to start grtting this right and to have all kernals
useing a absolute tolerance so that file translation can work. lets get
moving on this one poeple. and STEP to it. LOL..
bob watson
Jeff
surfaces. You pick the bottom surf and the top and it fills in the rest. If
you get any responses that work please post them or forward it to me. They
really need to add this funtionalitly if it doesn't already exist.
Jeff
Paul Salvador
God, I hate Sundays!
(little sw victim)
"Look Daddy, some men with ties are coming up the driveway,...I think
they're Mary Kay Salesmen?" knock-knock, ding-dong,...
(sw dog) --barking...
(SW victim)
"Be quite Fido!" -- dog kicked away from door. yelp, yelp...
(SW victim)
"Sorry, we're busy, can you come back later?"
(SD preachers)
"But it will only take 15mins of your time and we will mumble gibberish
and hand out pamphlets and if you don't listen, we will be back next
week."
(SW victim)
"Can we just have the pamphlets then?)
(SD preachers)
"No, you have to listen to our gibberish first."
(SW victim's)
"Well hell, that suxs!"
(little sw victim)
"Yeh, that suxs mister!"
(sw dog) ---riding on leg while peeing in SD'rs shoes.
(SD preachers)
"Well yes, it does, but we must spread the truth! Can we come in?"
(SW victim)
"No you can not come in, get off my property! Go get'm Fido!---door is
slammed!
(SD preachers)
(running down driveway shouting -dog barking/chasing)
"Okay..., have a nice day, we'll be back next week if you have second
thoughts. Yeah know, I think they liked us. Yes, they seemed very
friendly... Yeah, they did seem to see things as we do. Boy I hope
someday all believe as we do...Yeah!"
(sw little victim)
"Do you think they will be back Daddy?"
(SW victim)
"I hope not son, I hope not...? Get in here Fido! Good dog --pat on
head, pant, pant, tongue out, saliva, drooling, coughing, pant, pant...
good dog!"
Robert L. Heininger Sr.
I almost forgot one more thing. . .
HAPPY MUTHERZ DAY!!! LOL
ROBERT G WATSON
up with babbling bull like this and no time to prove us wrong. or to show me
that your SW is without faults in mold design. i will be the first to say
that SD has its limits to but they are allot less than SW. we have never
said that SW doesn't do a good job for what it was intended for because it
does. it makes parts not mold parting lines. SD was made to make parts not
molds it just has more tools to do it than SW, allot more.
we are also comparing a 13,000 cad system to a 4000 cad system keep that in
mind before you go off thinking we are trying to convert everyone because
were not , were only stating our excitement for the product we found to do
the job we need, we have been battling with management ever sence they went
out and got SW, all they seen was cheap cad not what they needed. SW will
get there but its got along way to go. and in my opinion "history" is
absolutely wrong for any one that has to work with someone else's models so
SW will never work for me or my company, and not everyone can learn the
high end systems they take allot of know how and understanding of how things
work were SW is pretty easy to jump in and go, there isn't allot of advanced
tools you have to learn and that's why my company will keep SW, allot of
people like it and they don't want to go any further in there work and
that's fine for some but not me or some people on here, present company
excluded of course
Paul, me and Robert h have ben looking at cad systems for a long time and
many people on this list want to here what we have to say, we have changed
the minds of a few people and headed them off to look elsewhere for there
mold design unfortunately none off them seem to want to speak up here. we
are not preaching we are educating you on what else is out there an that's
what its all about, all cad vendors want you to cover your eyes and ears,
they don't want you to here anything about anyone's cad being better so you
think that "my" cad is the only way and it looks like they sure got you
because if what you just wrote is all you got then you will never learn
anymore than you know now.
bob
when you say "SW victim " you are right they sure got you fooled........
Paul Salvador <za...@gte.net> wrote in message news:3735EB...@gte.net...
ROBERT G WATSON
i cant stop laughing its better reply than mine
bob thats defiently what i wanted to say but im trying to keep it polite and
its getting very hard with paul ,im getting to relize he dont know what the
beep he is talking about he only knows how to bitch and cry when he dont get
his way .
bob w
Paul Salvador
>
> yup, i can see how intelligent you are you sure have allot of time to come
> up with babbling bull like this and no time to prove us wrong.
> or to show me that your SW is without faults in mold design.
I'm shocked! So, does that mean you liked my story?
Sorry about Fido, he's going through that phase. 8^)
I will not show you anything it's all about secrets we've been keeping
from you both.
Mosses had the same problem, he kept wandering through that darn
desert. If he only realized that the Map was'nt to be used as TP.
They are tools, use them.
> i will be the first to say that SD has its limits to but they are allot
> less than SW.
Hmm, interesting, you guys just got SD, yes?
And you both were unaware of tools within SW that others mentioned that
could do what you wanted?
Sounds like you guys know little about SW and alot about CadKey and are
promoting your new tool SD(Ooo xmas toys). Makes sense. Hey whatever
makes you happy.
BUT GUESS WHAT!? Here's the clue, concentrate now, ***SW NG***.
That's right it's a SW NG. It's NOT a SD NG!
> SD was made to make parts not molds....
>
It took you guys that long to figure that out?
Not every tool does everything. SD is a very good tool. Now go away.
> mind before you go off thinking we are trying to convert everyone because
> were not ,
Good, wonderful, fantastic,.... now go away.
> and in my opinion "history" is absolutely wrong for any one that has to
> work with someone else's models so...
You're learning.... now go away.
> we are not preaching we are educating you on what else is out there
> an that's what its all about,
Hmm, when I want to educate myself, I usually read a book or sign up for
a class, i.e., I PAY FOR IT!
Modeling 101, I luv it!
Now, join a SD NG and go away(is this no clear?)! FIDO! 8^)
Andy
> > >
> > > Now, where are the 3d curve editing and freeform surfacing tools that
are
> > > needed to use this silhoutette to generate the split line sheet
bodies?
> > >
> > > 3rd party surfacers do not count.
> >
> >
> > Andy
>
>
> Because a person or company should not have to rely upon outside vendors
to
> get the job done. That would be like building half a mold and then
> sub-contracting it out when you realized you don't have the equipment
needed
> to complete it, and I'm not talking about farming out the mold base
> machining.
>
> Bob
Does it matter if it does the job?
Robert L. Heininger Sr.
> BUT GUESS WHAT!? Here's the clue, concentrate now, ***SW NG***.
> That's right it's a SW NG. It's NOT a SD NG!
REAL BIG CLUE:
Concentrate Paul, Concentrate. We (Bob and I) live in the UNITED STATES OF
AMERICA and one of our Constitutional Rights, is the Right To FREE SPEACH and
that also applies to the internet newsgroups.
Also, if you do not like what we type, no one is holding a gun to your cranium.
SO DON'T READ IT! (whew. . almost got personal on the cranium thing!)
Besides, don't you have anything better to do than to go around flaming people
who do not see things your way just for the sake of an argument.
Sheez. . this is so counter productive it's making me sick. If you want to take
this up
with private email, be my guest. I'm done doing it on the NG.
Regards,
Robert L. Heininger Sr.
> knows how to bitch and cry when he dont get his way.
Bob,
I think you are right, but Paul must really like you, because it's your posts
that get the flame, not mine!
uhhhh. . Does this have actually have anything to do with mouldmaking? 8-)
Bob
jdu...@solidworks.com
For somebody who spends a lot of time complaining how bad SolidWorks is at
Mold design. You sure didn't spend much time learning the basic tools in
SolidWorks that allow you to build molds. Once you have the split line you
have MANY "free form" surfacing techniques to create the parting surface,
3d surface Loft with tangency, and multiple guide curves.
3d surface sweep with guide curves and tangency
radiate surface
insert planar surface
Using a combination of this tools you can piece together just about any
shape/shapes. Once you have multiple surfaces you can stitch them together
using knit surface.
You can cut solids with surfaces, you can join parts together and you can
subtract parts from one another.
And unlike Solid designer, Changes ripple through the entire mold. core,
cavity inserts, base, all update automatically.
I am not here to argue whether all the tools are there to build the shapes
you need. But if you never tried > Insert / Reference Geometry/ Split line/
Silhouette, the first command any mold maker would have jumped on, what else
do you think you missed?
If you try to use a hammer to unscrew a bolt........
Joe Dunne
SolidWorks
Robert L. Heininger Sr. <r...@buffnet.net> wrote in message
news:3734891E...@buffnet.net...
> Jack Sanford wrote:
>
> > >
> > >Finding the silhouette of a part:
> > >
> > >ie. dislaying the outer most curves of a model in any view which can
then
> > be
> > >used as geometry to generate parting surfaces / split lines for the
> > cavities
> > >of a molded part.
> > >
> > >
> > >It's very simple and robust technique the can be done with many CAD &
CAM
> > >applications, and SW is not one of them, although I'm sure there are
some
> > >elaborate work-arounds to this simplistic proceedure.
> > >
> >
> > Insert / Refrence Geometry/ Split line/ Silhouette.
> >
> > Jack
>
> I stand corrected. :-O
>
> Now, where are the 3d curve editing and freeform surfacing tools that are
> needed to use this silhoutette to generate the split line sheet bodies?
>
> 3rd party surfacers do not count.
>
> Bob
>
GYro
does it hurt people soooooooo much when they get their toes stepped on?
Everyone is too quick to lash out on their little keyboards. Obviously,
you guys have way too much time on your hands. Maybe you should try some
physical assertion of your temper flaring. Maybe arm-wrestling.
Arguments are good because they are objective, but sometimes just turn
into something ugly and stupid. Next time somebody steps on your toes,
just shrug it off as "human error" . Nobody is perfect. Therefore no
CAD package can be perfect because they are created by humans. Hence
"human error." I've been doing this a long time 10 years, have seen alot
of bad packages, alot of OK packages, and a few(on 1 hand I could count
them) great packages. Anyway, let's just try to play friendly, Huh?
GYro
wags
add..
Jeff
Robert L. Heininger Sr. wrote in message <3734891E...@buffnet.net>...
Jkreutzb
the situation you describe. All I can say is hang in there, and it DOES get
easier as you gain familiararity with your new software.
I can't say a whole lot of specifics, but one thing I've found is that once you
have created the cavity, you can do cavities with the part and the cavity to
create the core. You must also include details on core pins when you do it this
way. I've also found that the resolve ambiguiuties box can be useful for
picking what features you want to end up with.
It's not automatic by any means, but I'm having better success after 5 months
on SWX, and I wish you the best of luck!
jk
J K Mold Design
Sacramento, Ca
cadm...@my-dejanews.com
and just bitch about it. They a a source of misinformation, just
ignore them. They haven't taken the time to learn SW and just because
they fail to grasp the software, they denouce it!
As far as core/cavity separation, my current method:
1. Create an assembly and merge the part file into it.
2. I now edit the part by scaling it up by the skrink factor.
3. Now that the part is now the correct size, I create planes and
sketches that will help me in breaking the core/cavity out.
4. Now I bring in a blank core to the assembly and mate it in the
correct location.
5. Once the core block is in place, now I edit the core and use the
part to create a cavity (I don't apply shrinkage, because it's been
done with the part).
6. Now that the part has been subtracted from the core, I can create
cut:extruded features to subtract out the remaining areas, leaving the
core.
7. Once the core is done, I'll bring in and mate the cavity block and
repeat steps 5-6. I'll do the same for core pins, inserts and any
other mold area.
I use four assemblies for mold design:
1. Part assembly; Bring imported part files into here to create
(overlay) a new part or if the part is clean, to do any modifications.
2. Core/Cavity; Create the core and cavity from the part file,
including the core and ejecor pins.
3. Mold Base; Just the mold base, all plates are driven by design
tables. This file is copied from a start directory and can make any
DME mold base.
4. Full Mold; This assmebly is just used to place all the components
together, A-Half assy, B-Half assy, slide assy, and the EJ assy. From
this I can make the mold layout.
I know this is a short answer, but I hope it points you in the right
direction.
John G
Cadmetrix
In article <37351A4D...@infoserve.netNO-SPAMMYPLEASE>,
gmenzies <phm...@infoserve.netNO-SPAMMYPLEASE> wrote:
> i am new to solidworks , but have been using cadkey for years. i am
> having difficulty dealing with core and cavity separation.
specifically
> the core with multiple islands or protrusions into the cavity. is
there
> a procedure that some one could pass along to speed up this
processes .
> the split line is no problem. there must be a simpler way of
subtracting
>
> all the intersecting protrusions as one unit than to select individual
> ones and joining.
>
> thanks
>
>
--== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==--
---Share what you know. Learn what you don't.---
Robert L. Heininger Sr.
cadm...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> First of all, there are many people in this fourm who do not use SW,
> and just bitch about it. They a a source of misinformation, just
> ignore them. They haven't taken the time to learn SW and just because
> they fail to grasp the software, they denouce it!
There is nothing to grasp, if it is NOT CAPABLE OF GETTING THE JOB DONE!
Johnathen Lieber
>
> Finding the silhouette of a part:
>
> ie. dislaying the outer most curves of a model in any view which can then be
> used as geometry to generate parting surfaces / split lines for the cavities
> of a molded part.
>
> It's very simple and robust technique the can be done with many CAD & CAM
> applications, and SW is not one of them, although I'm sure there are some
> elaborate work-arounds to this simplistic proceedure.
>
> Bob
>
> -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
> http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Sorry for jumping into your thread....
In ref. to your example. In solidworks, ensure the silhouette option is turn on
in the options (General tab/Sketch - Enable silhouettes)
And now you have all the silhouettes you could want. While they do take a little
movement of the mouse to get the mouse icon to show them (smart mouse activity).
They are there and very easy to use.
To create a parting line with the silhouette, just do a split line using the
silhouetted edge. (worst case, you convert the edge and project onto your
surface). It's very quick and rather simple.
Johnathen
gmen...@my-dejanews.com
> hey guys
appreciate all the input--even the negative ones- and Bob , we have had
dissucsions on differant forums. probly focussing on surfacing with
cadkey compared to mastercam--you got to work with what the boss gives
you--eh
here is what i have so far come up with , as per core and cavity
seperation. probly not the best , but one way.
1)create part-A
2)mold block-B
3)assembly-insert part-A/block-B--mate
4)make mold block into cavity with shrink from part-A
5)file/derive part-C
6)split derived part-c into cavity.
close all
1)open new part--insert/base part--derived part-C // save as cavity-1
2)open new part--insert/base part--mold block-B // save as core-1
3)open new assembly--insert cavity-1/core-2
3)click edit core-1 , insert features cavity with no shrink, from
cavity-1
4)file/derive part-D ( which is finally the core)
this process was developed by my dealer. if there is a better way , i
will find it. thanks John G (Camdetrix) i will explore your method
tommorow.
Gord