Ist there someone who has made mold design with SOLIDWORKS ? I wonder how to create automatically the separation of the mold, for example on an fillet ? AFAIK there is no function to find thte silhouette of a part.
In article <7h0o16$ma...@news.online.de>, "Konrad Bauer" <konrad.ba...@online.de> wrote:
> Ist there someone who has made mold design with SOLIDWORKS ? > I wonder how to create automatically the separation of the mold, for example > on an fillet ? > AFAIK there is no function to find thte silhouette of a part.
I work for a moulding house that has a number of different CADAM applications including SW, and I've never had the desire to waste my time and do a complete a mold design in Solidworks. It is great for designing simple molds for parts designed in house, but 2d Cad is also. If you say the words "Complex Imported Solids" very frequently, you might as well toss SW in the dumpster to save your company mega-bucks.
Finding the silhouette of a part:
ie. dislaying the outer most curves of a model in any view which can then be used as geometry to generate parting surfaces / split lines for the cavities of a molded part.
It's very simple and robust technique the can be done with many CAD & CAM applications, and SW is not one of them, although I'm sure there are some elaborate work-arounds to this simplistic proceedure.
My $.02 Bob
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>ie. dislaying the outer most curves of a model in any view which can then be >used as geometry to generate parting surfaces / split lines for the cavities >of a molded part.
>It's very simple and robust technique the can be done with many CAD & CAM >applications, and SW is not one of them, although I'm sure there are some >elaborate work-arounds to this simplistic proceedure.
> >ie. dislaying the outer most curves of a model in any view which can then > be > >used as geometry to generate parting surfaces / split lines for the > cavities > >of a molded part.
> >It's very simple and robust technique the can be done with many CAD & CAM > >applications, and SW is not one of them, although I'm sure there are some > >elaborate work-arounds to this simplistic proceedure.
i am new to solidworks , but have been using cadkey for years. i am having difficulty dealing with core and cavity separation. specifically the core with multiple islands or protrusions into the cavity. is there a procedure that some one could pass along to speed up this processes . the split line is no problem. there must be a simpler way of subtracting
all the intersecting protrusions as one unit than to select individual ones and joining.
In article <FA5Z2.2257$U83.68...@news.san.rr.com>, "Andy" <a...@dummy.com> wrote:
> > I stand corrected. :-O
> > Now, where are the 3d curve editing and freeform surfacing tools that are > > needed to use this silhoutette to generate the split line sheet bodies?
> > 3rd party surfacers do not count.
> Why shouldn't 3 rd party count?
> Andy
Because a person or company should not have to rely upon outside vendors to get the job done. That would be like building half a mold and then sub-contracting it out when you realized you don't have the equipment needed to complete it, and I'm not talking about farming out the mold base machining.
Bob
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In article <37351A4D.48D79...@infoserve.netNO-SPAMMYPLEASE>, gmenzies <phmo...@infoserve.netNO-SPAMMYPLEASE> wrote:
> i am new to solidworks , but have been using cadkey for years. i am > having difficulty dealing with core and cavity separation. specifically > the core with multiple islands or protrusions into the cavity. is there > a procedure that some one could pass along to speed up this processes . > the split line is no problem. there must be a simpler way of subtracting
> all the intersecting protrusions as one unit than to select individual > ones and joining.
> thanks
Gord,
Our solution to that SW nightmare was the purchase of Solid Designer. With it, the situation you describe is a snap, but it is also 4x the cost of SW.
This isn't helping you, so it's up to the SW Guru's to answer this one. :-)
Long Live Cadkey!
Bob
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> For somebody who spends a lot of time complaining how bad SolidWorks is at > Mold design. You sure didn't spend much time learning the basic tools in > SolidWorks that allow you to build molds.
Thankfully I haven't spent much time at all using SW, and instead observe what my peers are going through while using it. I've been doing CAD/CAM for a decade, am damn good at it, get paid accordingly, and SW is not somthing I desire to put in my portfolio. I made that decison a few years ago when I first seen SW. The direction I want to take my career is high-range or bust, and nothing more inbetween. The reasons are simple, economics in a job market soon to be flooded with SW users.
> Once you have the split line you > have MANY "free form" surfacing techniques to create the parting surface,
> 3d surface Loft with tangency, and multiple guide curves. > 3d surface sweep with guide curves and tangency > radiate surface > insert planar surface
> Using a combination of this tools you can piece together just about any > shape/shapes. Once you have multiple surfaces you can stitch them together > using knit surface.
> You can cut solids with surfaces, you can join parts together and you can > subtract parts from one another.
Yea Joe, Whatever. Why is it then, that I have the understanding that so many good SW users use Rhino3d as a surfacing solution? I don't suppose it's because what you have listed above isn't enough to get the job done, right?
> And unlike Solid designer, Changes ripple through the entire mold. core, > cavity inserts, base, all update automatically.
Changes in SW are not all they are cracked up to be due to history ordering issues. I have watched our designers using SW waste allot of time reordering to make changes. As far as SD goes, constraints can be applied at any time at the users discretion during both modeling and assembley.
This gets into the history vs. explicit debate, and I'm not touching that anytime soon, because I'm staying with explicit modelers. Period.
> I am not here to argue whether all the tools are there to build the shapes > you need. But if you never tried > Insert / Reference Geometry/ Split line/ > Silhouette, the first command any mold maker would have jumped on, what else > do you think you missed?
I soon is I read that post, I launced SW, gave it try, and then wiped off the egg smeared all over my face while shutting it down. What else have I missed? Not much, as far as I'm concerned, but the Parasolid translator comes in handy once in a while.
> If you try to use a hammer to unscrew a bolt........
I thought it was:
"Using a hammer to drive a screw into a wall"
That's not my quote, I would not have been so tactfull! :-)
> > > >ie. dislaying the outer most curves of a model in any view which can > then > > > be > > > >used as geometry to generate parting surfaces / split lines for the > > > cavities > > > >of a molded part.
> > > >It's very simple and robust technique the can be done with many CAD & > CAM > > > >applications, and SW is not one of them, although I'm sure there are > some > > > >elaborate work-arounds to this simplistic proceedure.
> > Now, where are the 3d curve editing and freeform surfacing tools that are > > needed to use this silhoutette to generate the split line sheet bodies?
> > 3rd party surfacers do not count.
> > Bob
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> For somebody who spends a lot of time complaining how bad SolidWorks is at > Mold design. You sure didn't spend much time learning the basic tools in > SolidWorks that allow you to build molds. Once you have the split line you > have MANY "free form" surfacing techniques to create the parting surface,
i have to jump in here and just say that not all molds are easy there not all box`s with a hole in the side. and yes SW can do this type off mold work.
i have done things in SD that cannot be done in SW period. our two guys who use SW have had me put the finishing touches on there molds becuase off the lack of advanced tools in SW to create ADVANCED part part lines not sweeps anf lofts. parting lines that need 3d cures in space to make the gob complete. ( i know 3d skecting is on the way thats the answer we get from our var to)
i have fixed parts that dont come across compleate were SW get this dumb look on the screen and begs for you to give it another try.
> 3d surface Loft with tangency, and multiple guide curves. > 3d surface sweep with guide curves and tangency > radiate surface > insert planar surface
yep it can do this but only if curves are made on a plane or taken from the part nothing in 3d space.
be carefull how you use the term 3d think about what it really means and you will see that lines created in a plane do not mean 3d its when you connect them with other lines created in other planes useing loft or swep the joining curves may then be true 3d or they may not.
> Using a combination of this tools you can piece together just about any > shape/shapes. Once you have multiple surfaces you can stitch them together > using knit surface.
here is another big slow down in SW, as you create surfaces they should join together where possible you should not have to go the extra step by telling it to.
> You can cut solids with surfaces, you can join parts together and you can > subtract parts from one another.
this is not big one here almost all mid range modelers can do this.
> And unlike Solid designer, Changes ripple through the entire mold. core, > cavity inserts, base, all update automatically.
here is where you are dead wrong.and alot off other poeple. here is a bit off ther web site.
"Parameters now can be attached to a model, even those from other systems, at any time, used to drive the design change and used to communicate the design intent. An important benefit is that the parametrics are explicit and not hidden in a history tree. This capability provides maximum flexibility in the application of design intent.
With this release, relations between geometrical entities such as holes, bosses and ribs can be specified, modified and deleted at any time -- even between different parts. Unlike conventional parametric-design systems, SolidDesigner provides the flexibility to easily incorporate feedback from other members of the extended product-development team without the need to know how the model was created.
Dynamic Relations enables users to specify relationships between parts and assemblies, as well as features and faces against reference elements such as faces, edges or vertices. The relationships can be grouped into relation sets and stored with the model. Relations can be created or modified at any time in the design process on any kind of model."
in SD i choose not the system
> I am not here to argue whether all the tools are there to build the shapes > you need. But if you never tried > Insert / Reference Geometry/ Split line/ > Silhouette, the first command any mold maker would have jumped on, what else > do you think you missed?
not much. it isnt there.
joe im not stupid and either are you, the tools to design certain mold are not there you know it and bob h and i know it and alot lot off other people on here know it, this is fact, no one who really knows SW and molds can say different or they would be stating there inexperence in mold design, witch is fine beacuse i dont know noting about sheet metal so if there was a discution on that topic i would shut up and learn what the poeple who do this type off work have to say.
> If you try to use a hammer to unscrew a bolt........
hey thats my line and its, you can use a hammer to put a screw in the wall put its not the right right toll for the job. (lol)
> Joe Dunne > SolidWorks
the topic we all really need to get on is file translation and put some real heat on the companys to start grtting this right and to have all kernals useing a absolute tolerance so that file translation can work. lets get moving on this one poeple. and STEP to it. LOL..
I too am looking for a beter way. With ProE you can "chain" select the surfaces. You pick the bottom surf and the top and it fills in the rest. If you get any responses that work please post them or forward it to me. They really need to add this funtionalitly if it doesn't already exist.
gmenzies wrote: > i am new to solidworks , but have been using cadkey for years. i am > having difficulty dealing with core and cavity separation. specifically > the core with multiple islands or protrusions into the cavity. is there > a procedure that some one could pass along to speed up this processes . > the split line is no problem. there must be a simpler way of subtracting
> all the intersecting protrusions as one unit than to select individual > ones and joining.
Ah, the SD preachers are back and it's Sunday, how appropriate. 8^\
God, I hate Sundays!
(little sw victim) "Look Daddy, some men with ties are coming up the driveway,...I think they're Mary Kay Salesmen?" knock-knock, ding-dong,... (sw dog) --barking... (SW victim) "Be quite Fido!" -- dog kicked away from door. yelp, yelp... (SW victim) "Sorry, we're busy, can you come back later?" (SD preachers) "But it will only take 15mins of your time and we will mumble gibberish and hand out pamphlets and if you don't listen, we will be back next week." (SW victim) "Can we just have the pamphlets then?) (SD preachers) "No, you have to listen to our gibberish first." (SW victim's) "Well hell, that suxs!" (little sw victim) "Yeh, that suxs mister!" (sw dog) ---riding on leg while peeing in SD'rs shoes. (SD preachers) "Well yes, it does, but we must spread the truth! Can we come in?" (SW victim) "No you can not come in, get off my property! Go get'm Fido!---door is slammed! (SD preachers) (running down driveway shouting -dog barking/chasing) "Okay..., have a nice day, we'll be back next week if you have second thoughts. Yeah know, I think they liked us. Yes, they seemed very friendly... Yeah, they did seem to see things as we do. Boy I hope someday all believe as we do...Yeah!" (sw little victim) "Do you think they will be back Daddy?" (SW victim) "I hope not son, I hope not...? Get in here Fido! Good dog --pat on head, pant, pant, tongue out, saliva, drooling, coughing, pant, pant... good dog!"
yup, i can see how intelligent you are you sure have allot of time to come up with babbling bull like this and no time to prove us wrong. or to show me that your SW is without faults in mold design. i will be the first to say that SD has its limits to but they are allot less than SW. we have never said that SW doesn't do a good job for what it was intended for because it does. it makes parts not mold parting lines. SD was made to make parts not molds it just has more tools to do it than SW, allot more.
we are also comparing a 13,000 cad system to a 4000 cad system keep that in mind before you go off thinking we are trying to convert everyone because were not , were only stating our excitement for the product we found to do the job we need, we have been battling with management ever sence they went out and got SW, all they seen was cheap cad not what they needed. SW will get there but its got along way to go. and in my opinion "history" is absolutely wrong for any one that has to work with someone else's models so SW will never work for me or my company, and not everyone can learn the high end systems they take allot of know how and understanding of how things work were SW is pretty easy to jump in and go, there isn't allot of advanced tools you have to learn and that's why my company will keep SW, allot of people like it and they don't want to go any further in there work and that's fine for some but not me or some people on here, present company excluded of course
Paul, me and Robert h have ben looking at cad systems for a long time and many people on this list want to here what we have to say, we have changed the minds of a few people and headed them off to look elsewhere for there mold design unfortunately none off them seem to want to speak up here. we are not preaching we are educating you on what else is out there an that's what its all about, all cad vendors want you to cover your eyes and ears, they don't want you to here anything about anyone's cad being better so you think that "my" cad is the only way and it looks like they sure got you because if what you just wrote is all you got then you will never learn anymore than you know now.
bob
when you say "SW victim " you are right they sure got you fooled........
Paul Salvador <za...@gte.net> wrote in message news:3735EB69.1898@gte.net... > Ah, the SD preachers are back and it's Sunday, how appropriate. 8^\
> God, I hate Sundays!
> (little sw victim) > "Look Daddy, some men with ties are coming up the driveway,...I think > they're Mary Kay Salesmen?" knock-knock, ding-dong,... > (sw dog) --barking... > (SW victim) > "Be quite Fido!" -- dog kicked away from door. yelp, yelp... > (SW victim) > "Sorry, we're busy, can you come back later?" > (SD preachers) > "But it will only take 15mins of your time and we will mumble gibberish > and hand out pamphlets and if you don't listen, we will be back next > week." > (SW victim) > "Can we just have the pamphlets then?) > (SD preachers) > "No, you have to listen to our gibberish first." > (SW victim's) > "Well hell, that suxs!" > (little sw victim) > "Yeh, that suxs mister!" > (sw dog) ---riding on leg while peeing in SD'rs shoes. > (SD preachers) > "Well yes, it does, but we must spread the truth! Can we come in?" > (SW victim) > "No you can not come in, get off my property! Go get'm Fido!---door is > slammed! > (SD preachers) > (running down driveway shouting -dog barking/chasing) > "Okay..., have a nice day, we'll be back next week if you have second > thoughts. Yeah know, I think they liked us. Yes, they seemed very > friendly... Yeah, they did seem to see things as we do. Boy I hope > someday all believe as we do...Yeah!" > (sw little victim) > "Do you think they will be back Daddy?" > (SW victim) > "I hope not son, I hope not...? Get in here Fido! Good dog --pat on > head, pant, pant, tongue out, saliva, drooling, coughing, pant, pant... > good dog!"
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i cant stop laughing its better reply than mine
bob thats defiently what i wanted to say but im trying to keep it polite and its getting very hard with paul ,im getting to relize he dont know what the beep he is talking about he only knows how to bitch and cry when he dont get his way .
> yup, i can see how intelligent you are you sure have allot of time to come > up with babbling bull like this and no time to prove us wrong. > or to show me that your SW is without faults in mold design.
I'm shocked! So, does that mean you liked my story? Sorry about Fido, he's going through that phase. 8^)
I will not show you anything it's all about secrets we've been keeping from you both. Mosses had the same problem, he kept wandering through that darn desert. If he only realized that the Map was'nt to be used as TP.
They are tools, use them.
> i will be the first to say that SD has its limits to but they are allot > less than SW.
Hmm, interesting, you guys just got SD, yes? And you both were unaware of tools within SW that others mentioned that could do what you wanted? Sounds like you guys know little about SW and alot about CadKey and are promoting your new tool SD(Ooo xmas toys). Makes sense. Hey whatever makes you happy.
BUT GUESS WHAT!? Here's the clue, concentrate now, ***SW NG***. That's right it's a SW NG. It's NOT a SD NG!
> SD was made to make parts not molds....
It took you guys that long to figure that out? Not every tool does everything. SD is a very good tool. Now go away.
> mind before you go off thinking we are trying to convert everyone because > were not ,
Good, wonderful, fantastic,.... now go away.
> and in my opinion "history" is absolutely wrong for any one that has to > work with someone else's models so...
You're learning.... now go away.
> we are not preaching we are educating you on what else is out there > an that's what its all about,
Hmm, when I want to educate myself, I usually read a book or sign up for a class, i.e., I PAY FOR IT! Modeling 101, I luv it!
Now, join a SD NG and go away(is this no clear?)! FIDO! 8^)
> In article <FA5Z2.2257$U83.68...@news.san.rr.com>, > "Andy" <a...@dummy.com> wrote:
> > > I stand corrected. :-O
> > > Now, where are the 3d curve editing and freeform surfacing tools that are > > > needed to use this silhoutette to generate the split line sheet bodies?
> > > 3rd party surfacers do not count.
> > Why shouldn't 3 rd party count?
> > Andy
> Because a person or company should not have to rely upon outside vendors to > get the job done. That would be like building half a mold and then > sub-contracting it out when you realized you don't have the equipment needed > to complete it, and I'm not talking about farming out the mold base > machining.
> BUT GUESS WHAT!? Here's the clue, concentrate now, ***SW NG***. > That's right it's a SW NG. It's NOT a SD NG!
REAL BIG CLUE:
Concentrate Paul, Concentrate. We (Bob and I) live in the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA and one of our Constitutional Rights, is the Right To FREE SPEACH and that also applies to the internet newsgroups.
Also, if you do not like what we type, no one is holding a gun to your cranium. SO DON'T READ IT! (whew. . almost got personal on the cranium thing!)
Besides, don't you have anything better to do than to go around flaming people who do not see things your way just for the sake of an argument.
Sheez. . this is so counter productive it's making me sick. If you want to take this up with private email, be my guest. I'm done doing it on the NG.
For somebody who spends a lot of time complaining how bad SolidWorks is at Mold design. You sure didn't spend much time learning the basic tools in SolidWorks that allow you to build molds. Once you have the split line you have MANY "free form" surfacing techniques to create the parting surface,
3d surface Loft with tangency, and multiple guide curves. 3d surface sweep with guide curves and tangency radiate surface insert planar surface
Using a combination of this tools you can piece together just about any shape/shapes. Once you have multiple surfaces you can stitch them together using knit surface.
You can cut solids with surfaces, you can join parts together and you can subtract parts from one another.
And unlike Solid designer, Changes ripple through the entire mold. core, cavity inserts, base, all update automatically.
I am not here to argue whether all the tools are there to build the shapes you need. But if you never tried > Insert / Reference Geometry/ Split line/ Silhouette, the first command any mold maker would have jumped on, what else do you think you missed?
If you try to use a hammer to unscrew a bolt........
> > >ie. dislaying the outer most curves of a model in any view which can then > > be > > >used as geometry to generate parting surfaces / split lines for the > > cavities > > >of a molded part.
> > >It's very simple and robust technique the can be done with many CAD & CAM > > >applications, and SW is not one of them, although I'm sure there are some > > >elaborate work-arounds to this simplistic proceedure.
In article <373652FF.FFAA0...@buffnet.net>, r...@buffnet.net says...
> > im getting to relize he dont know what the beep he is talking about he only > > knows how to bitch and cry when he dont get his way.
> Bob,
> I think you are right, but Paul must really like you, because it's your posts > that get the flame, not mine!
> uhhhh. . Does this have actually have anything to do with mouldmaking? 8-)
> Bob
I find it really funny how these "fruits" can go so sour so quickly. Why does it hurt people soooooooo much when they get their toes stepped on? Everyone is too quick to lash out on their little keyboards. Obviously, you guys have way too much time on your hands. Maybe you should try some physical assertion of your temper flaring. Maybe arm-wrestling. Arguments are good because they are objective, but sometimes just turn into something ugly and stupid. Next time somebody steps on your toes, just shrug it off as "human error" . Nobody is perfect. Therefore no CAD package can be perfect because they are created by humans. Hence "human error." I've been doing this a long time 10 years, have seen alot of bad packages, alot of OK packages, and a few(on 1 hand I could count them) great packages. Anyway, let's just try to play friendly, Huh?
>> >ie. dislaying the outer most curves of a model in any view which can then >> be >> >used as geometry to generate parting surfaces / split lines for the >> cavities >> >of a molded part.
>> >It's very simple and robust technique the can be done with many CAD & CAM >> >applications, and SW is not one of them, although I'm sure there are some >> >elaborate work-arounds to this simplistic proceedure.
I have recently migrated from cadkey as well, and have had some problems with the situation you describe. All I can say is hang in there, and it DOES get easier as you gain familiararity with your new software.
I can't say a whole lot of specifics, but one thing I've found is that once you have created the cavity, you can do cavities with the part and the cavity to create the core. You must also include details on core pins when you do it this way. I've also found that the resolve ambiguiuties box can be useful for picking what features you want to end up with.
It's not automatic by any means, but I'm having better success after 5 months on SWX, and I wish you the best of luck! jk
First of all, there are many people in this fourm who do not use SW, and just bitch about it. They a a source of misinformation, just ignore them. They haven't taken the time to learn SW and just because they fail to grasp the software, they denouce it!
As far as core/cavity separation, my current method:
1. Create an assembly and merge the part file into it. 2. I now edit the part by scaling it up by the skrink factor. 3. Now that the part is now the correct size, I create planes and sketches that will help me in breaking the core/cavity out. 4. Now I bring in a blank core to the assembly and mate it in the correct location. 5. Once the core block is in place, now I edit the core and use the part to create a cavity (I don't apply shrinkage, because it's been done with the part). 6. Now that the part has been subtracted from the core, I can create cut:extruded features to subtract out the remaining areas, leaving the core. 7. Once the core is done, I'll bring in and mate the cavity block and repeat steps 5-6. I'll do the same for core pins, inserts and any other mold area.
I use four assemblies for mold design: 1. Part assembly; Bring imported part files into here to create (overlay) a new part or if the part is clean, to do any modifications. 2. Core/Cavity; Create the core and cavity from the part file, including the core and ejecor pins. 3. Mold Base; Just the mold base, all plates are driven by design tables. This file is copied from a start directory and can make any DME mold base. 4. Full Mold; This assmebly is just used to place all the components together, A-Half assy, B-Half assy, slide assy, and the EJ assy. From this I can make the mold layout.
I know this is a short answer, but I hope it points you in the right direction.
John G Cadmetrix
In article <37351A4D.48D79...@infoserve.netNO-SPAMMYPLEASE>, gmenzies <phmo...@infoserve.netNO-SPAMMYPLEASE> wrote:
> i am new to solidworks , but have been using cadkey for years. i am > having difficulty dealing with core and cavity separation. specifically > the core with multiple islands or protrusions into the cavity. is there > a procedure that some one could pass along to speed up this processes . > the split line is no problem. there must be a simpler way of subtracting
> all the intersecting protrusions as one unit than to select individual > ones and joining.
> thanks
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cadmet...@my-dejanews.com wrote: > First of all, there are many people in this fourm who do not use SW, > and just bitch about it. They a a source of misinformation, just > ignore them. They haven't taken the time to learn SW and just because > they fail to grasp the software, they denouce it!
There is nothing to grasp, if it is NOT CAPABLE OF GETTING THE JOB DONE!
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